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Over 680 arrested in U.S. immigration raids; rights groups alarmed


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9 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

That is because the hierarchy works from top down. Yes the identity of somebody involved in a motor accident or crime should obviously be verified. 

When someone is charged with a criminal act, then a lot of things will be verified.   The problem is the thousands of people who are doing nothing illegal.   Should they be checked?  Should it be done on the basis of skin color?    Do you want the local police to give this priority or should they go about stopping crimes?    

 

ICE has their job to do and other branches of law enforcement do as well.   They will interface at times, but they don't do each other's job.

 

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Just now, Credo said:

When someone is charged with a criminal act, then a lot of things will be verified.   The problem is the thousands of people who are doing nothing illegal.   Should they be checked?  Should it be done on the basis of skin color?    Do you want the local police to give this priority or should they go about stopping crimes?    

 

ICE has their job to do and other branches of law enforcement do as well.   They will interface at times, but they don't do each other's job.

 

I edited my answer because I misconstrued the question.

Edited by anotheruser
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2 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

A witness is no good anyway if they are unable or unwilling to appear in court later.

A witness doesn't always have to appear in court and even if they do, the witness is not charged with anything.   Most people helping in an investigation are not witnesses.    They are people who know or saw something or someone.   Many times a person doesn't even know what the police are investigating.   

 

 

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That being said people who are checked and found to be illegal should be referred to the relevant law enforcement agency. It would be up to that agency to decide if they will prosecute or not. If you stop somebody for speeding and it comes out they are illegal you refer them to the next agency. The crime of illegally entering the USA trumps the the speeding charge.

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Just now, Credo said:

A witness doesn't always have to appear in court and even if they do, the witness is not charged with anything.   Most people helping in an investigation are not witnesses.    They are people who know or saw something or someone.   Many times a person doesn't even know what the police are investigating.   

 

 

The credibility of a witness will be brought up by any attorney who is competent. If I were charged and a witness for the prosecution didn't show up my lawyer would be all over it. It would be suggested that the witness didn't show up to avoid prosecution as an illegal alien and gave statements under duress.

 

 

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Are you suggesting that the credibility of a witness has something to do with their country of origin?   Or their legal status?    Do you think we should start checking the thousands and thousands of Canadians who spend their winters in places like AZ, CA and Fl?   Or should this be based on skin, color or hue?

 

If you are stopped by the police and charged with something, your immigration status will become known.   The same thing is true in Thailand.   In the general course of things, the police do not check to see if you have overstayed a visa.   Get stopped for something illegal and they most certainly will check.   

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Credo said:

Are you suggesting that the credibility of a witness has something to do with their country of origin?   Or their legal status?    Do you think we should start checking the thousands and thousands of Canadians who spend their winters in places like AZ, CA and Fl?   Or should this be based on skin, color or hue?

 

If you are stopped by the police and charged with something, your immigration status will become known.   The same thing is true in Thailand.   In the general course of things, the police do not check to see if you have overstayed a visa.   Get stopped for something illegal and they most certainly will check.   

 

 

 

 

I am saying that a witness is required to take the stand and testify. If they don't your lawyer will make a motion to have anything they have signed or sworn to to be made inadmissible. The only value of a witness that does not give a name or ID is if it helps to lead to an arrest based upon circumstantial evidence. 

 

That is fine if the police get the man based upon a witness. However if that witness if not identified and appearing in court in person it will have no bearing on the case. So if some illlegal says "the guy was white and went that way" it could lead to an arrest but that is it. 

 

In fact if the witness doesn't show up to court as a material witness it could even be argued the police had no grounds to stop the suspect based upon the description a no show witness gave. That would violate the defendants 4th amendment rights and possibly jeopardize the case based upon probable cause issues.

 

 

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I have been questioned by the police numerous times in the US.   These have been as simple as can I describe the person driving a car (in a hit-and-run), I told them what I could.   What color shirt he was, that he was a white male and looked to be in his late 20's or early 30's.   They took my name.   I never had to fill out a report, never had to testify and was never contacted further.   Should they have checked to see if I was a US citizen or if not, if I had overstayed a visa?   

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Just now, Credo said:

I have been questioned by the police numerous times in the US.   These have been as simple as can I describe the person driving a car (in a hit-and-run), I told them what I could.   What color shirt he was, that he was a white male and looked to be in his late 20's or early 30's.   They took my name.   I never had to fill out a report, never had to testify and was never contacted further.   Should they have checked to see if I was a US citizen or if not, if I had overstayed a visa?   

Than the cops were lazy. They should have asked for ID. Either the guy was convicted based upon overwhelming evidence or let off because lack there of. 

 

If they didn't check your ID and verify an address they wouldn't know how to contact you anyway. Your account would be inadmissible in either event. If the guy confessed then that would be the best result. If he made a plea of innocent and your account led to his arrest and you did not show it coukld negate the reason for his arrest.

 

So for example if you remained unidentified for the most part and said what you saw it would possibly make physical evidence later such as matching paint scrapings inadmissible.  The guy either pled guilty or was not even charged.

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9 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Bannon to Trump; "If I see any brown skinned people driving around my neighborhood who don't have a lawnmower or a leaf-blower in the back of their p.u. truck, I'm gonna call the cops to arrest them."

Chardonnay socialist musing aloud: "I love Mexicans my gardens look great."

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20 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

Than the cops were lazy. They should have asked for ID. Either the guy was convicted based upon overwhelming evidence or let off because lack there of. 

 

If they didn't check your ID and verify an address they wouldn't know how to contact you anyway. Your account would be inadmissible in either event. If the guy confessed then that would be the best result. If he made a plea of innocent and your account led to his arrest and you did not show it coukld negate the reason for his arrest

So for example if you remained unidentified for the most part and said what you saw it would possibly make physical evidence later such as matching paint scrapings inadmissible.  The guy either pled guilty or was not even charged.

We are going off-topic, and it's a rather useless exercise to discuss much further.   

 

The police are not lazy, they did take my name (also my phone number), they were on their way to catch a criminal.   They did not contact me because they didn't need to it.   It was on the news.   They caught the guy in the stolen car.   Of course, they could have spent valuable time shaking me down and he could well have gotten away.

 

They do not take people to court if they do not have the necessary cooperation of witnesses.  If you are a witness in a court hearing, you will not face deportation.   The court will assure you have the right to remain.   One of the major reasons for the sanctuary city regulations is that without some protection, a lot of people will not cooperate with the police.

 

If you do go to trial, the judge will most likely not allow questions about your resident status.   It is not relevant and it does not go to credibility.   A witnesses credibility is  questioned if they have something to gain by the conviction.   

 

 

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On 2/14/2017 at 8:44 PM, Jingthing said:

So you support breaking up families of otherwise law abiding undocumented persons?:sad:

What about the young dreamers who became undocumented with no fault of their own and know no other country other than the USA? 

 

If you are in a country illegally, you have to leave. It's the same in Thailand. People overstay their visa and when they eventually get caught, they are deported. So by your logic, it a foreigner has a kid with a Thai, just through that act, the foreigner gets a free pass and gets to stay in Thailand. Is that OK? 

As far as breaking up families, who says they need to be broken up. They can all go back to the homeland together and figure out a way to come to the US legally. Sorry, but I really don't have much sympathy. I've had to jump through hoops to stay legal in foreign countries. Same rules for all.

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2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I see. You don't know what dreamers are. Maybe come back after you read up on the issue. 

Yeah, dude, I do. I'm just sick of the bleeding hearts crying their eyes out over ILLEGAL immigrants. I guess in your eyes no crime is worthy of punishment. Are you a member of antifa by any chance?

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2 minutes ago, bkkgriz said:

Yeah, dude, I do. I'm just sick of the bleeding hearts crying their eyes out over ILLEGAL immigrants. I guess in your eyes no crime is worthy of punishment. Are you a member of antifa by any chance?

I guess your sick of trump too as in his press conference yesterday he strongly hinted he intends to push for a compassionate policy towards non-criminal DREAMERS. 

Tightening immigration policy doesn't need to mean going full on fascist xenophobe. If trump is willing to soften on at least that one thing, even I would give the failing donald trump credit for that. 

Edited by Jingthing
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Interesting that it's xenophobic to uphold immigration policy. Oh well, I guess name calling is all the regressive left has left in its arsenal. Don't like what someone says, just call them a racist, xenophobe, islamophobe, transphobe, etc, ad nauseum. 

 

I guess deportations under Obama were OK. It's just when Trump does anything, you lefties go into an uproar. Whatever, mate. 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

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7 minutes ago, bkkgriz said:

Interesting that it's xenophobic to uphold immigration policy. Oh well, I guess name calling is all the regressive left has left in its arsenal. Don't like what someone says, just call them a racist, xenophobe, islamophobe, transphobe, etc, ad nauseum. 

 

I guess deportations under Obama were OK. It's just when Trump does anything, you lefties go into an uproar. Whatever, mate. 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661

It gets xenophobic at the point that police are checking everyone that looks Latino for their papers. We're not there yet, but many people are with some rationality feeling that's where trump is heading. 

 

I'm well aware Obama did a lot of deporting.

But he didn't use anti-Mexican HATE SPEECH in his campaign speeches either. You remember, the "they're rapists" welcome to trump for president speech. He can't undo that. 

Edited by Jingthing
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19 hours ago, anotheruser said:

Chardonnay socialist musing aloud: "I love Mexicans my gardens look great."

an actual quote from Ivanna Trump (his 1st wife):  "I'm not prejudiced. A Mexican maid comes to my house and does a good job vacuuming my drapes"  Ivanna said that in the past  year, during the campaign.

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3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

an actual quote from Ivanna Trump (his 1st wife):  "I'm not prejudiced. A Mexican maid comes to my house and does a good job vacuuming my drapes"  Ivanna said that in the past  year, during the campaign.

 

I've heard the same thing from my ultra liberal friends from California. Both sides love the cheap labor. Libs just like to virtue signal. They really have no interest in changing things, just want to look good in front of their peers.

 

 

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On 2/14/2017 at 8:47 AM, buick said:

they are needed and wanted in the USA.  but it must be done legally. 

 

Agree. Some of them have jobs that Americans won't take. 

 

I know a town just northwest of Portland, OR, where lots of immigrants from Guatemala are illegals. Most live in peace.

 

But criminal illegals nationwide and drug addicts should be deported, from petty theft to violent crimes.

 

Edited by AGLV0121
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1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Poor Mexicans generally can't get in legally and their labor is very much needed. Before mouthing the must come in legally BS first make that even possible. Otherwise total hypocrisy.

If they cannot get in legally they should stay at home and not break the law, their illegal  labour is not needed. The rest of your post does not make any sense.

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2 minutes ago, thai3 said:

If they cannot get in legally they should stay at home and not break the law, their illegal  labour is not needed. The rest of your post does not make any sense.

You're wrong. Their labor IS needed.

If right wingers were serious about this, they would favor throwing business employers in prison for employing them. But they never do. Again, massive hypocrisy. 

Edited by Jingthing
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17 minutes ago, beechguy said:

 

what's wrong with the media? I have heard some TV reports and read some articles where the word "illegal" is used very sparsingly, sometimes placed as far in the sentence as possible from the word "immigrant"...

 

<deleted>

 

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT

 

say it, leftist media !

 

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i saw a segment on TV (that's television not thai visa !!!) about farms in the US and somewhat near the border.  mexican nationals work the fields and they arrive via bus in the am and then depart by bus in the pm (back to mexico).  i like that program.

 

what i don't like much is an illegal comes over the border (whatever the nationality may be) and then has a child a couple years later.  then, a bunch of people whine and cry about the illegal potentially being deported as their child is an american citizen.  i think that 'law' (born is USA gives citizenship) is part of the constitution but it sure seems outdated.  their needs to be a caveat of some sort, saying they must be here legally in order for that to apply. 

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On 2/18/2017 at 8:22 PM, Jingthing said:

Poor Mexicans generally can't get in legally and their labor is very much needed. Before mouthing the must come in legally BS first make that even possible. Otherwise total hypocrisy.

It's not BS.  It's the correct, obvious answer. 

 

The hypocrisy is from BOTH main political parties saying they'll get it done but don't.  And that includes Obama, who was in an awesome position to get it (one of his campaign pledges) done and didn't.  Even left leaning pundits wonder why he walked away from it.

 

 

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