Appeals Court upholds death penalty for Koh Tao murders

[Thaidream]

The posts by Smedley are the most logical and well thought out and explained. My take on the situation is similar:

1.  The crime scene was not sealed- people were walking all over it and the murder weapon could well have bee moved by the perpetrator.

2.  The DNA evidence is flawed and has to be excluded from the case- there is no chain of custody; the analysis is incorrect and there is nothing to retest that would change anything because we do not know if it is an original sample.

3.  the investigation was flawed- possible coerced confessions; using an interpreter off the street;  lost potential evidence or no analysis of it; no investigation of what happened in the bar etc.

4.  The B2 have no motive- they were on the beach drinking- but why all of a sudden would they decide to murder 2 tourists- the prosecutor says they were aroused from watching- utter nonsense and conjecture.

 

Had I been on a jury and heard this case- I would have voted not guilty. The Prosecutor did not make the case and there is no real evidence.  I firmly believe that the key to this case is what happened in the bar and everything that did happen flows from that incident.I don't know if the defense hired a private investigator but there are people out there who know exactly what happened and why it happened and who the guilty people are.

 

I expect this case to go to the Supreme Court and I would venture a guess they will be exonerated and set free. If this happens no further investigation will occur because of the time that has lapsed and the other obvious reasons that have already been discussed.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Thaidream

[lucky11]

18 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

the problem with overturning the verdict is that it would mean they were scapegoats

Maybe, just maybe, they are guilty (as I think they are) and justice has been served!!

[DiscoDan]

57 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Do you think that Nakhon might have been making a point re police integrity?

Maybe but he is a defense lawyer his job is to make his clients look innocent.

 

The Defence never challenged the match they never requested a court order for the dna documents either. They also did not use their dna expert Jane Taupin on the stand.

 

 

[Thaidream]

The DNA evidence is flawed- there is no chain of custody- and without that it has to be excluded and declared unreliable.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, DiscoDan said:

Maybe but he is a defense lawyer his job is to make his clients look innocent.

 

The Defence never challenged the match they never requested a court order for the dna documents either. They also did not use their dna expert Jane Taupin on the stand.

 

 

  There was no DNA match .

You keep making the same points, people point out that you are wrong . You then go ahead and make the same point again .

 

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

The DNA evidence is flawed- there is no chain of custody- and without that it has to be excluded and declared unreliable.

It clearly wasn't unreliable, was it.

 

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

The DNA evidence is flawed- there is no chain of custody- and without that it has to be excluded and declared unreliable.

What a complete and disgraceful farce the investigation of the crime scene was! No cordoning-off of the murder scene; prime murder suspect allowed to trample around that area unhindered (there is film footage of this) ... This alone immediately rules out any legitimate use of DNA 'evidence'. 

 

Every step of this 'investigation' (after the initial prime suspects suddenly and magically disappeared from the investigation) has been a disgrace as great as any ever seen on this planet. And I mean that. It is hard to imagine a more disgusting display of evil and corruption than has been shown in this case.

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

  There was no DNA match .

You keep making the same points, people point out that you are wrong . You then go ahead and make the same point again .

 

There was a DNA match from what I remember - didn't the judge say words to the affect of "this was the key information that led to them deciding that their guilt was undeniable"?

[AGareth2]

5 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

It clearly wasn't unreliable, was it.

 

they didn't need to rely on the DNA as the decision had been decided in advance

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, lucky11 said:

It clearly wasn't unreliable, was it.

 

Because there was no match, its was completely unreliable 

Please read previous posts in this thread that show how and why the so called evidence was unreliable

[Thaidream]

The point  being that with no custody chain- or custody log- all of the DNA has to be viewed as unreliable as well as the fact the crime was never sealed. Would you send a person to their death based upon unreliable evidence or evidence that was in doubt?

[lucky11]

Just now, AGareth2 said:

they didn't need to rely on the DNA as the decision had been decided in advance

I don't think that courts work this way - not even Thai ones.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, lucky11 said:

I don't think that courts work this way - not even Thai ones.

We are talking about THIS case , and that scenario seems extremely likely .

This was never about finding justice and truth , it was all about some people protecting their own interests 

[lucky11]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Because there was no match, its was completely unreliable 

Please read previous posts in this thread that show how and why the so called evidence was unreliable

SAMUI: -- On December 24th 2015 the chief judge presiding over the Koh Tao murder trial handed Zaw Lin, 22 and Wai Phyo, 22 the death penalty. His decision, that the pair were guilty of murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, and raping Hannah Witheridge, was based solely on DNA evidence he said. 

 

 There you go, I have read a previous post which shows that the DNA was the sole evidence that convicted them.

[darksidedog]

I have been through all the comments here, more than once and it seems that for some, reality is something that only other people grasp.

The majority of people do not believe that the two Burmese are guilty.

The majority of people understand that if the match is not 99.99%, the person the DNA came from has to be from someone else.

The majority of people understand that the same results in a UK court would have been sufficient for exoneration. Not 99.99%, not you.

Sadly a couple of posters cannot understand that a partial match is worth absolutely nothing, and will deny the truth till their dying breath.

I am wondering if those people are in the same nursing home, bereft of a nurse to wipe away the seemingly constant flow of dribble away from their mouths.

[lucky11]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

We are talking about THIS case , and that scenario seems extremely likely .

This was never about finding justice and truth , it was all about some people protecting their own interests 

I haven't any interests to protect - I simply believe that they got the right people that carried out the murders and am happy that it wasn't overturned, That's all, I am allowed my opinions and thoughts, am I not??

 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

SAMUI: -- On December 24th 2015 the chief judge presiding over the Koh Tao murder trial handed Zaw Lin, 22 and Wai Phyo, 22 the death penalty. His decision, that the pair were guilty of murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, and raping Hannah Witheridge, was based solely on DNA evidence he said. 

 

 There you go, I have read a previous post which shows that the DNA was the sole evidence that convicted them.

Please read the previous posts in this thread .

[transam]

3 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

SAMUI: -- On December 24th 2015 the chief judge presiding over the Koh Tao murder trial handed Zaw Lin, 22 and Wai Phyo, 22 the death penalty. His decision, that the pair were guilty of murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, and raping Hannah Witheridge, was based solely on DNA evidence he said. 

 

 There you go, I have read a previous post which shows that the DNA was the sole evidence that convicted them.

WoW, where you been...........?

[lucky11]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Please read the previous posts in this thread .

Don't need to - just going on what the judge concluded which is that the DNA evidence was what convicted them!!

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, lucky11 said:

Don't need to - just going on what the judge concluded which is that the DNA evidence was what convicted them!!

So, you refuse to read posts that show that the evidence wasnt a match and the whole process was flawed .

   TBH, if you are not going to read previous posts , then I will not be re posting what has already been posted, just because You dont want to scroll back .

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

So, you refuse to read posts that show that the evidence wasnt a match and the whole process was flawed .

   TBH, if you are not going to read previous posts , then I will not be re posting what has already been posted, just because You dont want to scroll back .

It's really hard to get my head around how some people can believe night is day, black is white, and injustice is justice. But that is what we have here. It is a psychological phenomenon called 'cognitive dissonance': an inability to perceive reality, even when it is staring one in the face!

The whole 'investigation' into this terrible dual murder began under the clarion call of a top Thai policeman who said that the murders could not have been committed by a Thai, as 'no Thai would have done this.' Unprofessionalism right from the very get-go!!

 

And things went from bad to worse to worst - to unspeakably evil ...

[DiscoDan]

21 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The DNA evidence is flawed- there is no chain of custody- and without that it has to be excluded and declared unreliable.

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/12/25/1451042373/

 

Read the whole article there are chain of custody docs the prosecution declined to show them to the defense which they have every right to do under thai law, it was the job of the defense to seek a court order to see the documentation which they did not do !.

 

This is from Robert Holmes a Barrister who observed the case at the request of the defense.

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, DiscoDan said:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2015/12/25/1451042373/

 

Read the whole article there are chain of custody docs the prosecution declined to show them to the defense which they have every right to do under thai law, it was the job of the defense to seek a court order to see the documentation which they did not do !.

 

This is from Robert Holmes a Barrister who observed the case at the request of the defense.

My take, is that it implicated them so completely that when the defence team finally got to see the evidence..................!! Know that saying 'no leg to stand on'?

[DiscoDan]

http://www.thephuketnews.com/more-forensic-evidence-available-for-re-test-witness-reveals-53331.php 

 

She also did not supply the full documentation of the results she gathered in her forensic testing, citing a policy that bars scientists from providing investigative officers with detailed graphs of a person’s genetic makeup.  

 

Again documents are there defense should of sort a court order.

 

Anyone who thinks this is incorrect is welcome to contact Andy Hall to get a reply and love me wrong, 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Thaidream

Your post is correct. And as you say, had you (or any of us, i think)had been on a jury.It would have been a not guilty result.That's why there are no juries in the Thai system.The Judge is the sole decider, right or wrong.There's no coming back with a 10/2 majority, a cannot reach a verdict result, There are no juries to ask for lenience, or call back the judge for a less harsh sentence. Its all down to one man, and he cannot bee seen to be wrong.Its bloody archaic and, it gives no credence to the meaning of justice is blind.

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

Read the whole article there are chain of custody docs the prosecution declined to show them to the defense which they have every right to do under thai law, it was the job of the defense to seek a court order to see the documentation which they did not do !

So, that was accepted in Court by a Judge ?

The prosecution says it has documents showing a chain of custody, but they will not show them .

   So, they claim to have evidence, but just dont want to show it 

How was that accepted in Court ?

How can no evidence be classified as evidence ? 

 

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Thaidream

Your post is correct. And as you say, had you (or any of us, i think)had been on a jury.It would have been a not guilty result.That's why there are no juries in the Thai system.The Judge is the sole decider, right or wrong.There's no coming back with a 10/2 majority, a cannot reach a verdict result, There are no juries to ask for lenience, or call back the judge for a less harsh sentence. Its all down to one man, and he cannot bee seen to be wrong.Its bloody archaic and, it gives no credence to the meaning of justice is blind.

It's a big assumption to make that he got the decision wrong - after all, he was the one presented with the evidence from both the defence and prosecution. Was you there?

[Thaidream]

The police refused to present a verifiable chain of custody log because none existed.  I do not know for a fact that the defense did not request the log or if true why they would not want it or why the court never requested it. I would need the complete court transcript to verify this.  However, I surmise that if it existed- the police would have provided it without any fuss.

In my mind the DNA evidence is flawed. You do not need to prove innocence. The prosecutor did not prove guilt which means the accused are innocent until proven guilty. 

 

[Eligius]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

So, that was accepted in Court by a Judge ?

The prosecution says it has documents showing a chain of custody, but they will not show them .

   So, they claim to have evidence, but just dont want to show it 

How was that accepted in Court ?

How can no evidence be classified as evidence ? 

 

The very fact that the Prosecution had vital documents relating to the case which they withheld from the Defence should be a red flag to anyone. That action is in itself very suspicious and not conducive to a belief in the 'transparency' of this case.

 

But actually the case is very transparent - transparently a heinous miscarriage of justice. And that is why so many of us are up in arms about it.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

It's a big assumption to make that he got the decision wrong - after all, he was the one presented with the evidence from both the defence and prosecution. Was you there?

Thats the point .

Im not saying the Judge made the wrong decision by going on the evidence

Its been alleged that the verdict was a deliberate miss carriage of justice in order to protect the image of Thailand and to also protect some people who may be carrying out illegal activity on the Islands !!!!!!!!