Scotland's Sturgeon says: I can win an independence vote

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, Flustered said:

Please remember Sandy that the general public in Scotland do not have the opportunity to express their views on prime time TV like Mary Doll.

 

The general public are being ignored by the SNP, a fact that will bite them in the bum come election time (both elections).

 

They really need to start addressing local issues and use all of the powers that have been given to them rather than flogging a dead horse (independence).

You really love the tangents, your comments had absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted.

[RuamRudy]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You really love the tangents, your comments had absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted.

And nothing to do with reality. Time and again, these expert Scotland commentators trot out the same garbage about the SNP's 'poor' record at domestic affairs but when you ask for an example, they all come up with nothing. Yoonie headline grazers with nothing of their own to offer, the lot of them...

Edited April 7, 2017 by RuamRudy

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Maybe I should have said "18 SNP MPs out of 56 SNP MPs;" if only to prevent your attempt at point scoring.

 

18 SNP MPs signed the EDM; but what the SNP's actual policy on this matter is I don't know; do you?

 

Of course, if the SNP get their way and Scotland does become an independent nation state, then whatever their policy is it won't effect British expat pensioners.

 

Yes, I do live in England; because that is where I work.

 

Of course, you have no idea what my retirement plans are; so I'll tell you.

 

As we own property in Thailand and do intend to retire there, the issue is far from irrelevant to me.

More twists than a corkscrew, at the end of the day the rhetoric is nothing more than attempt to belittle the actions of the Scots in the EDM's, obviously the taste of jock pie and beans still lingers.

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

And nothing to do with reality. Time and again, these expert Scotland commentators trot out the say garbage about the SNP's 'poor' record at domestic affairs but when you ask for an example, they all come up with nothing. Yoonie headline grazers with nothing of their own to offer, the lot of them...

Quite, Scotland's GDP per capita on 2015 figures puts it around 24th in the global rankings but it goes over their heads and gets ignored.

As long as people have an income, a change in circumstances does not make them bankrupt.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Quite, Scotland's GDP per capita on 2015 figures puts it around 24th in the global rankings but it goes over their heads and gets ignored.

As long as people have an income, a change in circumstances does not make them bankrupt.

Its way too simplistic. For sure, Scotland can thrive as an independent country.  The notion that Scotland or indeed UK can not prosper as an independent country is nonsense, after all most countries are just that.  In Scotland's case one need only look at Australia, or NZ.

 

But these are tough times (arguably made worse by Tories and EU bungling), and the price of independence is an economic shock.  Scotland is arguably run badly- we are seeing that already.  If it were to leave it would assume quite massive debts.  It's no good dismissing this as scare tactics.

[7by7]

 

@sandyf, let's recap.

 

You raised the issue of 18 SNP MPs signing the EDM in an attempt to show us how wonderful the SNP are.

 

I pointed out that this is only a third of the 56 SNP MPs; and was no indication of the SNP's policy on index linking ex pat pensions.

 

I also asked you if you knew what the SNP's policy on this issue is. As you haven't answered, you presumably don't know. (I suspect that, as only 18 out of 56 SNP MPs signed the EDM, they don't have one!)

 

I then pointed out that were Scotland to become independent then the Scottish government would have no say at all over the index linking of British pensions.

 

You stated that as I lived in England I didn't care about this issue because it was irrelevant to my. I told you that when the time came I would be retiring to Thailand, so it is very relevant to me.

 

The best response to this that you can come up with is

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

More twists than a corkscrew, at the end of the day the rhetoric is nothing more than attempt to belittle the actions of the Scots in the EDM's, obviously the taste of jock pie and beans still lingers.

 

In case you still haven't got it; what I am belittling is not the efforts of any MP who signed that EDM, whatever party they represent: it is your pathetic attempt to convince people that this is a matter the SNP itself takes seriously and that they are in some way going to ride to the rescue of the expat pensioner!

 

If that is the best you can come up with as an example of the merits of the SNP, then they must be in very poor shape indeed!

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Its way too simplistic. For sure, Scotland can thrive as an independent country.  The notion that Scotland or indeed UK can not prosper as an independent country is nonsense, after all most countries are just that.  In Scotland's case one need only look at Australia, or NZ.

 

But these are tough times (arguably made worse by Tories and EU bungling), and the price of independence is an economic shock.  Scotland is arguably run badly- we are seeing that already.  If it were to leave it would assume quite massive debts.  It's no good dismissing this as scare tactics.

Can you elaborate on what you are seeing that suggests, relatively speaking, Scotland is being badly run?

 

You are correct that these are tough times, and they are, undoubtedly going to get tougher. If you can accept that, for me and many like me, independence is as ideological as it is contemporary, then when would be the right time? At least if we are headed for a bugger's muddle, we can make it our own doing.

 

[mommysboy]

53 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Can you elaborate on what you are seeing that suggests, relatively speaking, Scotland is being badly run?

 

You are correct that these are tough times, and they are, undoubtedly going to get tougher. If you can accept that, for me and many like me, independence is as ideological as it is contemporary, then when would be the right time? At least if we are headed for a bugger's muddle, we can make it our own doing.

 

 

Budget deficit! 

 

And even deeper in the mire upon leaving UK, as if times are not tough enough.  Nothwistanding any UK mismanagement, most western economies (including EU) are in trouble.

[RuamRudy]

18 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Budget deficit! 

 

And even deeper in the mire upon leaving UK, as if times are not tough enough.  Nothwistanding any UK mismanagement, most western economies (including EU) are in trouble.

Scotland does not have a deficit in the way that most people who trumpet this claim think. The SG does not issue financial instruments or borrow money to finance itself. It is allocated a block grant from the UK exchequer and spends it - end of story. Of course, currently the sum spent is probably greater than the revenue generated in tax receipts for the time being, although calculating the difference is not as cut and dried as some suggest.

 

But in reality, the way to narrow the gap between income and expenditure does not have to be the ineffective Tory way - especially as it clearly does not work. The tools of managing the economy of Scotland are retained by those who manage the economy of the UK as a whole; if those tools were in the hands of Holyrood, then we could pursue a better, more effective path to sorting out the balance sheet.

 

Here is an interesting article about the North Sea, and how the Norwegans have managed to benefit much more from their fields than the UK has, despites having produced over 3 billion boe less than the UK.

 

I am not trying to suggest that a change in the North Sea tax regime is all that is required to bring about the recovery our country needs, but I will say with conviction that a change in direction is definitely what we need, and have needed for many years. Westminster is failing every part of the UK, but nothing is going to change at all unless we take drastic steps.

[pegman]

The Canada option:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/04/06/scotland-join-canada_n_15851320.html

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Scotland does not have a deficit in the way that most people who trumpet this claim think. The SG does not issue financial instruments or borrow money to finance itself. It is allocated a block grant from the UK exchequer and spends it - end of story. Of course, currently the sum spent is probably greater than the revenue generated in tax receipts for the time being, although calculating the difference is not as cut and dried as some suggest.

 

But in reality, the way to narrow the gap between income and expenditure does not have to be the ineffective Tory way - especially as it clearly does not work. The tools of managing the economy of Scotland are retained by those who manage the economy of the UK as a whole; if those tools were in the hands of Holyrood, then we could pursue a better, more effective path to sorting out the balance sheet.

 

Here is an interesting article about the North Sea, and how the Norwegans have managed to benefit much more from their fields than the UK has, despites having produced over 3 billion boe less than the UK.

 

I am not trying to suggest that a change in the North Sea tax regime is all that is required to bring about the recovery our country needs, but I will say with conviction that a change in direction is definitely what we need, and have needed for many years. Westminster is failing every part of the UK, but nothing is going to change at all unless we take drastic steps.

 

And black is white and white no colour at all!

[RuamRudy]

 
And black is white and white no colour at all!

So if you have nothing to offer, go with a non sequitur?

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

@sandyf, let's recap.

 

You raised the issue of 18 SNP MPs signing the EDM in an attempt to show us how wonderful the SNP are.

 

I pointed out that this is only a third of the 56 SNP MPs; and was no indication of the SNP's policy on index linking ex pat pensions.

 

I also asked you if you knew what the SNP's policy on this issue is. As you haven't answered, you presumably don't know. (I suspect that, as only 18 out of 56 SNP MPs signed the EDM, they don't have one!)

 

I then pointed out that were Scotland to become independent then the Scottish government would have no say at all over the index linking of British pensions.

 

You stated that as I lived in England I didn't care about this issue because it was irrelevant to my. I told you that when the time came I would be retiring to Thailand, so it is very relevant to me.

 

The best response to this that you can come up with is

 

In case you still haven't got it; what I am belittling is not the efforts of any MP who signed that EDM, whatever party they represent: it is your pathetic attempt to convince people that this is a matter the SNP itself takes seriously and that they are in some way going to ride to the rescue of the expat pensioner!

 

If that is the best you can come up with as an example of the merits of the SNP, then they must be in very poor shape indeed!

Looks like my last post went over your head or maybe just selective memory, some barriers can't be breached, end of story.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Its way too simplistic. For sure, Scotland can thrive as an independent country.  The notion that Scotland or indeed UK can not prosper as an independent country is nonsense, after all most countries are just that.  In Scotland's case one need only look at Australia, or NZ.

 

But these are tough times (arguably made worse by Tories and EU bungling), and the price of independence is an economic shock.  Scotland is arguably run badly- we are seeing that already.  If it were to leave it would assume quite massive debts.  It's no good dismissing this as scare tactics.

Scotland has 3 GDP figures, one just on an onshore basis and the other 2 include offshore components. Currently the offshore component is calculated under an EU formula. How is that going to work post brexit?

It is not surprising that TM is reluctant to have Scotland leave the UK, she will be desperate to keep full control of the oil & gas industry.

http://www.epmag.com/hurricane-energy-triples-recoverable-oil-estimate-north-sea-field-1491841#p=2

 

Oil my have declined from the heyday but it is still a significant source of revenue and will be for years to come.

[transam]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/1c2be2bc-72b7-3f37-931e-622da35abdf6/scotland%26%2339%3Bs-latest.html

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/1c2be2bc-72b7-3f37-931e-622da35abdf6/scotland%26%2339%3Bs-latest.html

A similar report was posted yesterday - but it doesn't tell us much. It was discussed last week (on this thread, I believe) how GDP cannot be calculated at regional level - so many of the variables are calculated at national level then estimates of apportioned to the regions. This is also why the famous 'deficit' is no more than a confection of estimates and gut feelings being used to deliver a political agenda .

 

How does the UK look as a whole if you remove the contribution of London to the figures? To suggest that rUK as a whole is performing equally, and that it is solely Scotland that is lagging behind is myopic in the extreme. The truth is more likely that almost every part of the UK is struggling at the moment, and these positive growth numbers are coming from the city.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

Looks like my last post went over your head or maybe just selective memory, some barriers can't be breached, end of story.

As you have sunk to this pathetic excuse for not answering; yes; end of story.

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, transam said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/1c2be2bc-72b7-3f37-931e-622da35abdf6/scotland%26%2339%3Bs-latest.html

 

UK industrial output shrinks unexpectedly in February, adding to signs of Brexit slowdown

 

"British industrial output fell unexpectedly in February and manufacturers struggled, according to official data on Friday that added to signs economic growth may have slowed as Britain prepares to leave the EU.

Output in manufacturing, which accounts for about 10 per cent of Britain's gross domestic product, unexpectedly fell 0.1 per cent following a 1.0 per cent fall in January, disappointing against forecasts for a 0.3 per cent rise in the Reuters poll."

 

 

[nontabury]

10 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

UK industrial output shrinks unexpectedly in February, adding to signs of Brexit slowdown

 

"British industrial output fell unexpectedly in February and manufacturers struggled, according to official data on Friday that added to signs economic growth may have slowed as Britain prepares to leave the EU.

Output in manufacturing, which accounts for about 10 per cent of Britain's gross domestic product, unexpectedly fell 0.1 per cent following a 1.0 per cent fall in January, disappointing against forecasts for a 0.3 per cent rise in the Reuters poll."

 

 

So as a SNP supporter,this minor piece of news makes you happy. Is so, take a very long and hard look at how the economy is doing in Scotland.

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

So as a SNP supporter,this minor piece of news makes you happy. Is so, take a very long and hard look at how the economy is doing in Scotland.

 

 

 

 

Is there nothing you are not willing to twist, convolute and lie about in order to drive home you own, incorrect message?

 

Firstly, the slowdown of of the British economy is not a minor piece at all - you can belittle it all you like, but I find it very troubling, as, I am sure the many peope up and down the UK who are suffering from the mix of a failed UK economic policy and the stupidity of Brexit do.

 

Secondly, I assure you that I take no satisfaction from it, but I know better than to give your posts much credence so I don't take much offence at your suggestion that this news makes me happy. Just to make sure you understand, though, I was responding to Transam's link that reported that the Scottish economy was under pressure, by highlighting that this was a UK wide problem. If you had bothered to read the post I made before that, you would have seen where I wrote:

 

23 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The truth is more likely that almost every part of the UK is struggling at the moment, and these positive growth numbers are coming from the city.

But in your rush to try to post more Facebook garbage, and your innate intellectual dishonesty caused you to ignore that and try to score a cheap point. And yet again you failed.

 

Interesting that now, NS is blamed for the UK wide slump. Well, you have already tried to claim that she is worse than Hitler. What next - worse than Assad? Your arguments (and, let's be honest - that is a very generous term to use in their regard) are becoming increasingly desperate and pathetic. I think this is clear indication of the last few straws in the Yoonie hands being pulled free of the earth. I think you will find that, in years to come, the young will look back with anger, not at NS, but at Farage, UKIP and all those who voted for Brexit as being the precursor to the demise of the once United Kingdom.

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Is there nothing you are not willing to twist

Look who's talking... 

[transam]

Seems the SNP wants to cozy up the the Germans...Plus the Brussels folk, because the SNP  don't like the English....Folk in their same Island that have been great on the World scene for a century......SNP, shield bashing ended a zillion years back, we came together to be a world force, and still are for a small island......SNP,  if there was no oil you would be very quiet, you know where your bread was buttered....Daft to forget that..

[RuamRudy]

Just now, transam said:

Seems the SNP wants to cozy up the the Germans...Plus the Brussels folk, because the SNP  don't like the English....Folk in their same Island that have been great on the World scene for a century......SNP, shield bashing ended a zillion years back, we came together to be a world force, and still are for a small island......SNP,  if there was no oil you would be very quiet, you know where your bread was buttered....Daft to forget that..

The Scottish people voted to remain in Europe. It makes sense, does it not, to strengthen ties with your political allies? As for this nonsense that the SNP don't like the English, it is clear that no matter how many times I ask for evidence of that, there is nothing to back up the claim. But certain individuals keep spouting it without proof, much like some people insist on claiming that the earth is flat despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary. As for the oil - if there was no oil left, I think we would have been cast adrift many years ago.

[DILLIGAD]

The Scottish people voted to remain in Europe. It makes sense, does it not, to strengthen ties with your political allies? As for this nonsense that the SNP don't like the English, it is clear that no matter how many times I ask for evidence of that, there is nothing to back up the claim. But certain individuals keep spouting it without proof, much like some people insist on claiming that the earth is flat despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary. As for the oil - if there was no oil left, I think we would have been cast adrift many years ago.

Serious question RR.
Do you actually believe that England, Wales & Ireland would have 'cast Scotland adrift' like you suggest, after the hundreds of years when we all have fought (& won) so many foe's together?


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[transam]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The Scottish people voted to remain in Europe. It makes sense, does it not, to strengthen ties with your political allies? As for this nonsense that the SNP don't like the English, it is clear that no matter how many times I ask for evidence of that, there is nothing to back up the claim. But certain individuals keep spouting it without proof, much like some people insist on claiming that the earth is flat despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary. As for the oil - if there was no oil left, I think we would have been cast adrift many years ago.

Rubbish...........Gawd

[transam]

3 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

Serious question RR.
Do you actually believe that England, Wales & Ireland would have 'cast Scotland adrift' like you suggest, after the hundreds of years when we all have fought (& won) so many foe's together?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, it was a daft comment by RR........Should point out to him The Falklands.......

[DILLIGAD]

Yes, it was a daft comment by RR........Should point out to him The Falklands.......

Better not, he might bring up (Maggie's) oil again!!!!


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[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, DILLIGAD said:

Serious question RR.
Do you actually believe that England, Wales & Ireland would have 'cast Scotland adrift' like you suggest, after the hundreds of years when we all have fought (& won) so many foe's together?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is obviously one of those things that can never be proven one way or the other - certainly the McCrone Report into North Sea oil was kept secret for 30 years, the author having concluded that, "...for the first time since the Act of Union was passed, it can now be credibly argued that Scotland's economic advantage lies in its repeal”. In contrast, "For England, loss of most of the UK's oil revenues would mean several “difficult” years of adjustment, complete with low growth, high unemployment and higher taxes". There is no doubt that expansion of Thatcherism relied heavilly on the windfall of North Sea Oil.

 

Scottish independence won't obliterate history; it won't detract from anything that our countries jointly achieved over the years. In fact, I think it will strengthen our relationship for the future.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Yes, it was a daft comment by RR........Should point out to him The Falklands.......

What about the Falklands? They are a people who unanimously want to remain a British overseas territory. Where is the connection to Scotland, other than they also have vast oil potentials?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

What about the Falklands? They are a people who unanimously want to remain a British overseas territory. Where is the connection to Scotland, other than they also have vast oil potentials?

The UK stood bye them....That is my point.....You posted about the UK trashing Scotland...That is complete senescence....