Greatest manager in the English league

[carmine]

Three standouts for me.  Paisley, Ferguson and Clough.

 

Always a difficult call this as all three have incredible records.  However, on the basis of three european cups and the best games/silverware ratio i believe that Paisley shades it.  And how does winning the european cups not get a knighthood you might ask!  

 

Anyway, interested in opinions.  It seems to be one of the enduring debates!  Try not to make it too much about club rivalries.

[meatboy]

with the players he had,its got to be BRIAN CLOUGH although he did have a good assistant.

[petermik]

Stats show that Bob Paisley had a slightly higher success rate of winning trophies to Fergie,however this was over a much shorter period 9 years against 26.

Cloughie did excellent also with Peter Taylor alongside,after they fell out however it was a different story............don,t tell anyone in Leeds that Brian Clough was a good manager

Opinions/opinions on sheer number of trophies won/length of time in management there is only one winner.......

[carmine]

6 minutes ago, petermik said:

Stats show that Bob Paisley had a slightly higher success rate of winning trophies to Fergie,however this was over a much shorter period 9 years against 26.

Cloughie did excellent also with Peter Taylor alongside,after they fell out however it was a different story............don,t tell anyone in Leeds that Brian Clough was a good manager

Opinions/opinions on sheer number of trophies won/length of time in management there is only one winner.......

Surely theres two views regards the length of time taken to win trophies.  Theres your point i'm presuming that its been achieved over a longer more enduring period of time or the other,  that to win so much in much lesser time is the greater achievement.

[StevieH]

paisley's humility always made him the best for me. club loyalties aside of course. nobody ever had a bad word to say about him throughout the game. ferguson was an amazing manager but just too horrible and bitter and generally classless to ever be more than admired by neutrals, couldn't really ever like him.

[champers]

Clough for me; in partnership with Peter Taylor. The best manager England never had. To win the title with one average side and then to repeat the feat within 10 years and with 2 Euoropean cups for good measure is my reason.

Shankly and Busby are more than worthy of consideration.

[Bredbury Blue]

Hate to say it but Fergie for me; did it Scotland and England over a long period, ManU had won bugger all over +20 year period and he came in and made them on his own dominant.
Paisley continued the good work of others and others continued on his good works over a lengthy spell.
Cloughie did it at Derby and Forest but how good was he without Peter Taylor.

[smokie36]

What Ferguson did at Aberdeen was even more outstanding to me so I have to go for him as best ever.

 

Loved the style of play of all the managers mentioned however.

 

Is big Sam the Houdini of the lower end of the table meanwhile?

 

Who would you take over the years to get you off tbe bottom with ten games left?

[BangrakBob]

1 hour ago, StevieH said:

paisley's humility always made him the best for me. club loyalties aside of course. nobody ever had a bad word to say about him throughout the game. ferguson was an amazing manager but just too horrible and bitter and generally classless to ever be more than admired by neutrals, couldn't really ever like him.

Not many number 2 coaches step up when passed on the mantel but he did. And to be able to follow such a great and influential manager, which has been proved to be very difficult by others, top man who was forever in the shadow of Shanks even though he achieved so much. No.1

[petermik]

8 hours ago, carmine said:

Surely theres two views regards the length of time taken to win trophies.  Theres your point i'm presuming that its been achieved over a longer more enduring period of time or the other,  that to win so much in much lesser time is the greater achievement.

You may also consider that to continually producing winning teams over a greater period of time is a better test of a manager,when Fergie took over United were not in the same position as Liverpool were when Paisley followed Bill Shankly.

Whilst your basing your opinion on trophies won in seasons of management Paisley just comes out on top.........however Paisleys win ratio to games played is 57.57% Fergies is better at 59.7% while managing at United.

Fergie (sorry bitters) is clearly the best

[StevieH]

3 minutes ago, RonniePickering22 said:

What Ferguson did at Aberdeen was even more outstanding to me so I have to go for him as best ever.

 

Loved the style of play of all the managers mentioned however.

 

Is big Sam the Houdini of the lower end of the table meanwhile?

 

Who would you take over the years to get you off tbe bottom with ten games left?

 

harry basset, obviously.

 

nobody else think ferguson's abuse of referees, attitude to the BBC and other press, greed over the racehorse nonsense with mcmanus and magnier counts against him then?

[petermik]

7 hours ago, BangrakBob said:

Not many number 2 coaches step up when passed on the mantel but he did. And to be able to follow such a great and influential manager, which has been proved to be very difficult by others, top man who was forever in the shadow of Shanks even though he achieved so much. No.1

No one,certainly not me,is doubting Bob Paisleys ability or humility.....a great manager and loyal servant to Liverpool

[petermik]

7 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

harry basset, obviously.

 

nobody else think ferguson's abuse of referees, attitude to the BBC and other press, greed over the racehorse nonsense with mcmanus and magnier counts against him then?

typical numpty comment from a bitter..............get a life

[StevieH]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

typical numpty comment from a bitter..............get a life

 

pipe down dim bulb. nothing bitter here. just being objective about ferguson's many controversies over his career. like i said above, i admire his achievements but could never like the man. too graceless, too classless, too much of a bully. 

[Rc2702]

4 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

harry basset, obviously.

 

nobody else think ferguson's abuse of referees, attitude to the BBC and other press, greed over the racehorse nonsense with mcmanus and magnier counts against him then?

He was greedy and the racehorses tarnished him he bit off more than he could chew with those lads and it's common sense he got in the refs heads and under there skin which influenced games and titles. But still an unbelievable manager who fought a very good fight.

[petermik]

12 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

 i admire his achievements but could never like the man. too graceless, too classless, too much of a bully. 

You know absolutely nothing of the real Fergie,the Fergie who would call up some young inexperienced manager in the lower leagues who were having problems and offering help and advice if they wanted it,but that doesn,t make a good story so the press don,t report it.

When Bill Shankly retired from Liverpool he was lost,he hoped in some way the board would offer him some involvement in the club but they did not,Fergie heard that he had been seen watching Everton training a time or two so he contacted him and told him if he wanted to come over to the Cliff (in Broughton where United,s training ground used to be) for a chat and a cup of tea to talk about the game............Shankly was a regular visitor after that,of course being fellow Scots helped........Fergie told this story in one of his books of how the great Bill Shankly wasn,t given an active roll after retiring and felt let down by the scousers......Fergie was made a director when he retired.

When the BBC started investigating Fergies son Jason regarding his roll as an agent,they never showed the courtesy to ask him whether the accusations they were implying were true or not,instead just went ahead with trial by the media,this is why Fergie had the big fall out with them,years later they apologised and acknowledged their wrongdoing.

It was reported many years ago about Fergie and Brian Kidd falling out and Fergie taking the flack from the press,read Brian Kidds book about the real truth, Kiddo suffered from cancer a few years ago and made a statement in an interview on BBC Radio Manchester saying no-one did more for him or his family at the time than Alex Ferguson and Man U but you don,t want to know all that do you

 

[alfieconn]

48 minutes ago, petermik said:

You know absolutely nothing of the real Fergie,the Fergie who would call up some young inexperienced manager in the lower leagues who were having problems and offering help and advice if they wanted it,but that doesn,t make a good story so the press don,t report it.

When Bill Shankly retired from Liverpool he was lost,he hoped in some way the board would offer him some involvement in the club but they did not,Fergie heard that he had been seen watching Everton training a time or two so he contacted him and told him if he wanted to come over to the Cliff (in Broughton where United,s training ground used to be) for a chat and a cup of tea to talk about the game............Shankly was a regular visitor after that,of course being fellow Scots helped........Fergie told this story in one of his books of how the great Bill Shankly wasn,t given an active roll after retiring and felt let down by the scousers......Fergie was made a director when he retired.

When the BBC started investigating Fergies son Jason regarding his roll as an agent,they never showed the courtesy to ask him whether the accusations they were implying were true or not,instead just went ahead with trial by the media,this is why Fergie had the big fall out with them,years later they apologised and acknowledged their wrongdoing.

It was reported many years ago about Fergie and Brian Kidd falling out and Fergie taking the flack from the press,read Brian Kidds book about the real truth, Kiddo suffered from cancer a few years ago and made a statement in an interview on BBC Radio Manchester saying no-one did more for him or his family at the time than Alex Ferguson and Man U but you don,t want to know all that do you

 

 

To be fair, Jack the ripper probably had his good side 

[StevieH]

1 hour ago, alfieconn said:

 

To be fair, Jack the ripper probably had his good side 

 

And Fred West loved his family.

 

I've had dinner with Alex Ferguson. I liked him a lot. Full of stories and a charming man. He didn't like me asking him why he accepted a knighthood though, him a Govan shipyard lad. That didn't go down well at all. Was interesting to hear the player he named as the one he most regretted not signing though. But then according to Petermik I'd know nothing about that. 

[Rc2702]

46 minutes ago, StevieH said:

 

And Fred West loved his family.

 

I've had dinner with Alex Ferguson. I liked him a lot. Full of stories and a charming man. He didn't like me asking him why he accepted a knighthood though, him a Govan shipyard lad. That didn't go down well at all. Was interesting to hear the player he named as the one he most regretted not signing though. But then according to Petermik I'd know nothing about that. 

Ok fair play so ball park Era let's hAve a clue on the regret?

[petermik]

10 hours ago, alfieconn said:

 

To be fair, Jack the ripper probably had his good side 

As did spurs back in 1961

[petermik]

17 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

 but could never like the man. too graceless, too classless, too much of a bully. 

 

9 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

 

I've had dinner with Alex Ferguson. I liked him a lot. Full of stories and a charming man.

I,m sorry Stevie didn,t realise you suffered from dyslexia...........my apologies,but just for curiosity,s sake which statement is correct

[smokie36]

I've just realised the title is CURRENT best manager in which case Arsene Wenger wins the prize.

 

A huge influence on the modern British game he has been. Love or loathe his team he has been there or abouts with his side often on a relative shoestring budget for over 20 years.

 

In decline now but still dangerous eh Peter?

 

Lol.

[carmine]

19 hours ago, StevieH said:

 

harry basset, obviously.

 

nobody else think ferguson's abuse of referees, attitude to the BBC and other press, greed over the racehorse nonsense with mcmanus and magnier counts against him then?

Bar the abuse of referees which was disgraceful, no i don't really.  The rest, be it all wrong shouldn't detract from his management abilities and achievements although with all that said i find it even more remarkable that he was honored with a knighthood for one european cup and a man with three,  six league titles and a UEFA,  whose behavior was exemplary wasn't.  I feel its one of the most glaring oversights in knighthoods to sports people.  Saying that, i don't really want to go down this road.  Bottom line is he was an extraordinarily good manager.

[carmine]

8 hours ago, RonniePickering22 said:

I've just realised the title is CURRENT best manager in which case Arsene Wenger wins the prize.

 

A huge influence on the modern British game he has been. Love or loathe his team he has been there or abouts with his side often on a relative shoestring budget for over 20 years.

 

In decline now but still dangerous eh Peter?

 

Lol.

Doesn't say current Ronald!!  

[StevieH]

10 hours ago, petermik said:

 

I,m sorry Stevie didn,t realise you suffered from dyslexia...........my apologies,but just for curiosity,s sake which statement is correct

comprehension isn't your strongest suit is it peter? nor is punctuation apparently.

 

i said i liked the man when having dinner with him. as a manager, good as he was, he was a horrible unlikable blert who somehow managed to be both a sore winner and a sore loser.

[petermik]

9 hours ago, carmine said:

 i find it even more remarkable that he was honored with a knighthood for one european cup and a man with three, 

Fergie won TWO European cups and is the most decorated british football manager bar none

The list of awards he has received are endless,but I do not expect many non united fans will take the time to look

[petermik]

7 hours ago, StevieH said:

comprehension isn't your strongest suit is it peter? nor is punctuation apparently.

 

i said i liked the man when having dinner with him. as a manager, good as he was, he was a horrible unlikable blert who somehow managed to be both a sore winner and a sore loser.

Its a pity you did not take the opportunity,when you had it,to point this out to him.........

 

27 seven years without a Premiership trophy = bitterness...........say no more

[carmine]

5 minutes ago, petermik said:

Fergie won TWO European cups and is the most decorated british football manager bar none

The list of awards he has received are endless,but I do not expect many non united fans will take the time to look

I even went as far as to ask posters not to bring in club rivalry but you just couldn't help yourself could you!!  

 

And i have to say you've been sounding like a spoilt child on here!!!

 

Ferguson has my admiration, respect and a full acknowledgement of his achievements.  Why do you seem to feel you need anything more?

[carmine]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

Its a pity you did not take the opportunity,when you had it,to point this out to him.........

 

27 seven years without a Premiership trophy = bitterness...........say no more

Because he probably would have started <deleted> and blinding at the meal table in the same manor in which he continually verbally abused match officials.  If you know whats likely to come out, don't provoke it

[StevieH]

2 hours ago, carmine said:

Bar the abuse of referees which was disgraceful, no i don't really.  The rest, be it all wrong shouldn't detract from his management abilities and achievements although with all that said i find it even more remarkable that he was honored with a knighthood for one european cup and a man with three,  six league titles and a UEFA,  whose behavior was exemplary wasn't.  I feel its one of the most glaring oversights in knighthoods to sports people.  Saying that, i don't really want to go down this road.  Bottom line is he was an extraordinarily good manager.

 

liverpool fans prefer it that bob paisley doesn't have a knighthood mate.