Do you think Trump will be impeached or forced to resign?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, amvet said:

I have asked a number of times for someone to post any evidence of Russian hacking (not phishing) or any evidence of Russian meddling in any meaningful way into the American electoral process and Trumps collusion in those things.

Here is the evedence of hacking, which is actually cracking. DNC emails, which the Putin's Russia got by breaking into the email server: https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/

 

With phishing one manages to get one or few emails and other data, not thousands of emails.

 

Furthermore should we talk about fake news, troll bots, the Russian troll farm close to St Petersburg? I guess it goes too much off-topic.

 

 

[amvet]

21 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Here is the evedence of hacking, which is actually cracking. DNC emails, which the Putin's Russia got by breaking into the email server: https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/

 

With phishing one manages to get one or few emails and other data, not thousands of emails.

 

Furthermore should we talk about fake news, troll bots, the Russian troll farm close to St Petersburg? I guess it goes too much off-topic.

Last March, Podesta received an email purportedly from Google saying hackers had tried to infiltrate his Gmail account.  Instead of telling the aide that the email was a threat and that a good response would be to change his password directly through Google’s website, he had inadvertently told the aide to click on the fraudulent email and give the attackers access to the account. 

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-have-caused-podesta-email-hack

 

Is the above grounds for impeachment?  Wikileaks released true information, nothing fake that was of interest to Americans trying to make an intelligent decision about the election.  

 

Your other references to troll farms and so on.  What does that have to do with Trump and how much money was spent?  

 

The media and "intelligence community" seem to me to have an agenda that extends far beyond the normal course  of reporting news and gathering information.  Seems to me they are trying to impeach Trump because they have little confidence that the Democratic party can win an election.  

 

I would like to see the truth.  Releasing true information does not strike me as wrong whoever does it.  Impeachment I would think is reserved for releasing false information like weapons of mass destruction when there were none (speaking of the veracity of the "intelligence community."

[Guest]

You asked a question and I provided you the answer. If you are not happy with the answer, it's not my problem.

If you can't trust the intelligent community or the media, again, it's not my problem.

 

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, amvet said:

Last March, Podesta received an email purportedly from Google saying hackers had tried to infiltrate his Gmail account.  Instead of telling the aide that the email was a threat and that a good response would be to change his password directly through Google’s website, he had inadvertently told the aide to click on the fraudulent email and give the attackers access to the account. 

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-have-caused-podesta-email-hack

 

Is the above grounds for impeachment?  Wikileaks released true information, nothing fake that was of interest to Americans trying to make an intelligent decision about the election.  

 

Your other references to troll farms and so on.  What does that have to do with Trump and how much money was spent?  

 

The media and "intelligence community" seem to me to have an agenda that extends far beyond the normal course  of reporting news and gathering information.  Seems to me they are trying to impeach Trump because they have little confidence that the Democratic party can win an election.  

 

I would like to see the truth.  Releasing true information does not strike me as wrong whoever does it.  Impeachment I would think is reserved for releasing false information like weapons of mass destruction when there were none (speaking of the veracity of the "intelligence community."

"The media and "intelligence community" seem to me to have an agenda that extends far beyond the normal course  of reporting news and gathering information.  Seems to me they are trying to impeach Trump because they have little confidence that the Democratic party can win an election.  "

 

But of course you have no evidence of this.

 

The intelligence community doesn't release details of what information it has collected because that would show how the information was collected.  Any suspicion that the intelligence community is attempting to influence elections and impeach a sitting president is the result of paranoia.  Especially paranoid is the idea that the intelligence community is pro-Democrat.

[thaihome]

14 minutes ago, amvet said:

Last March, Podesta received an email purportedly from Google saying hackers had tried to infiltrate his Gmail account.  Instead of telling the aide that the email was a threat and that a good response would be to change his password directly through Google’s website, he had inadvertently told the aide to click on the fraudulent email and give the attackers access to the account. 

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/310234-typo-may-have-caused-podesta-email-hack

 

Is the above grounds for impeachment?  Wikileaks released true information, nothing fake that was of interest to Americans trying to make an intelligent decision about the election.  

 

Your other references to troll farms and so on.  What does that have to do with Trump and how much money was spent?  

 

The media and "intelligence community" seem to me to have an agenda that extends far beyond the normal course  of reporting news and gathering information.  Seems to me they are trying to impeach Trump because they have little confidence that the Democratic party can win an election.  

 

I would like to see the truth.  Releasing true information does not strike me as wrong whoever does it.  Impeachment I would think is reserved for releasing false information like weapons of mass destruction when there were none (speaking of the veracity of the "intelligence community."

The link was about the DNC hack which exposed the entire contents of the DNC servers. The Podesta email releases was due to a phishing attack on his gmail account.

 

Two different sets of emails. You not knowing that while claiming to have never seen proof of a "hacking" is either ignorance or seriously disingenuous.

TH 

[amvet]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

Here is the evedence of hacking, which is actually cracking. DNC emails, which the Putin's Russia got by breaking into the email server: https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/

 

With phishing one manages to get one or few emails and other data, not thousands of emails.

 

Furthermore should we talk about fake news, troll bots, the Russian troll farm close to St Petersburg? I guess it goes too much off-topic.

What information in the Wikileaks email release influenced the American election?  This discussion is predicated on collusion between Trump and the Russians leading to his eventual impeachment I think?  I also didn't see any evidence you presented or in that link about cracking or hacking. Only your supposition or inference that it took place.   

[amvet]

36 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"The media and "intelligence community" seem to me to have an agenda that extends far beyond the normal course  of reporting news and gathering information.  Seems to me they are trying to impeach Trump because they have little confidence that the Democratic party can win an election.  "

 

But of course you have no evidence of this.

 

The intelligence community doesn't release details of what information it has collected because that would show how the information was collected.  Any suspicion that the intelligence community is attempting to influence elections and impeach a sitting president is the result of paranoia.  Especially paranoid is the idea that the intelligence community is pro-Democrat.

Obama's Director of National Intelligence James Clapper on CNN

 

About Trump "downright scary and disturbing."

 

"I really question his ... fitness to be in this office"

 

"This behavior and this divisiveness, and the complete intellectual, moral, and ethical void that the president of the United States exhibits — how much longer does the country have to, to borrow a phrase, 'endure this nightmare'?"

 

What do you think about his objectivity?

 

 

[amvet]

36 minutes ago, thaihome said:

The link was about the DNC hack which exposed the entire contents of the DNC servers. The Podesta email releases was due to a phishing attack on his gmail account.

 

Two different sets of emails. You not knowing that while claiming to have never seen proof of a "hacking" is either ignorance or seriously disingenuous.

TH 

All Phishing .  https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/03/ap-investigation-russia-hack-dnc-clinton-emails/

 

Hacking in my mind would be something to do with tampering with voting results.  Nothing done that I can find involved anything except letting the American people know the truth about the DNC.  Which I think is a good thing.  Should have been done for both parties as I'm sure the DNC was trying to with election research Fusion GPS. 

 

If Trump asked Russia to hack and alter voting machine totals impeach him and put him in jail. 

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, amvet said:

Obama's Director of National Intelligence James Clapper on CNN

 

About Trump "downright scary and disturbing."

 

"I really question his ... fitness to be in this office"

 

"This behavior and this divisiveness, and the complete intellectual, moral, and ethical void that the president of the United States exhibits — how much longer does the country have to, to borrow a phrase, 'endure this nightmare'?"

 

What do you think about his objectivity?

 

 

I think he's stating the obvious.

 

He isn't Trump's Director of National Intelligence or in government now, he's a private citizen allowed to state his views.  Is this the best you have?  It in no way substantiates your paranoid suspicion of a deep state plot against Trump.

[Srikcir]

23 minutes ago, amvet said:

What do you think about his objectivity?

If measured by a Republican majority Congress, very solid.

 

"For the first time in more than 40 years, U.S. lawmakers are holding a hearing to examine whether the president should have carte blanche to launch a nuclear strike.

The extraordinary hearing Tuesday before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee reflects growing anxiety in Congress about President Donald Trump’s impulsive temperament and whether he should still have the absolute authority to wage nuclear war with no outside check or restraint."

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/14/congress-questions-trumps-exclusive-hold-on-the-nuclear-football/

Compare to Trump's denial that there was any Russian intrusion in the POTUS election despite the objective analaysis and conclusion by both Congress and 16 US intelligence agencies.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

You asked a question and I provided you the answer. If you are not happy with the answer, it's not my problem.

If you can't trust the intelligent community or the media, again, it's not my problem.

 

Ignore the troll. LOL

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Ignore the troll. LOL

That was my way of saying just that (and suggest others to do the same :) 

 

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, oilinki said:

That was my way of saying just that (and suggest others to do the same :) 

 

We should all quit replying to him.

[heybruce]

On the subject of competence:

 

"Details have emerged of the highly-classified Israeli intelligence revealed by Donald Trump to Russian officials earlier this year."

"The US President’s decision to spill the information during a meeting with foreign minister Sergei Lavrov was described as having brought Israeli spies’ “worst fears” to life."   https://www.yahoo.com/news/revealed-highly-sensitive-israeli-intelligence-090159461.html  

 

It's safe to assume allies are now being much more restrictive about the the kind of intelligence they share with the US.  That's bad for us, some these allies are much better at gathering intelligence from parts of the world where the US isn't well liked.

 

But technically the president didn't break any US laws, so making the country less safe is alright in the eyes of the Trumpies.

[amvet]

46 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I think he's stating the obvious.

He isn't Trump's Director of National Intelligence or in government now, he's a private citizen allowed to state his views.  Is this the best you have?  It in no way substantiates your paranoid suspicion of a deep state plot against Trump.

  Obama's CIA Director Brennan said that Trump should be “ashamed of himself” for his “despicable display of self-aggrandizement” at the CIA headquarters.

 

I don't think high ranking government officials of the "intelligence community" have any business shooting of their mouth about the new President.  It speaks to their loyalty to the country.  It's why Truman fired MacArthur.  

 

If you are a loyal American spy you try and let the President do his job.  Everybody thinks the spooks know a lot and they cal always say I can't explain it to you because of national security making everyone look like idiots. 

 

The opposition party is in the business to trash the opposing President, CIA and FBI and NSA are not.  Those men in or out of office still have a lot of influence and shout use it to help the President not hurt him. 

[Guest]

Gotta love that these news are starting to come to the daylight.
 

Quote

 

RUSSIAN TV EDITOR SAYS HIS NETWORK GOT CALLS FROM THE KREMLIN TO ATTACK CLINTON

 

http://www.newsweek.com/russian-tv-editor-says-his-network-got-calls-kremlin-take-down-clinton-721104?utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, amvet said:

  Obama's CIA Director Brennan said that Trump should be “ashamed of himself” for his “despicable display of self-aggrandizement” at the CIA headquarters.

 

I don't think high ranking government officials of the "intelligence community" have any business shooting of their mouth about the new President.  It speaks to their loyalty to the country.  It's why Truman fired MacArthur.  

 

If you are a loyal American spy you try and let the President do his job.  Everybody thinks the spooks know a lot and they cal always say I can't explain it to you because of national security making everyone look like idiots. 

 

The opposition party is in the business to trash the opposing President, CIA and FBI and NSA are not.  Those men in or out of office still have a lot of influence and shout use it to help the President not hurt him. 

I take it you were appalled when Fox News found former government officials, including at least one convicted felon (Oliver North), to trash talk Democratic administrations.

 

BTW, MacArthur was publicly challenging Truman's restrictions on his actions in the Korean War.  MacArthur wanted to use nukes, Truman said no.  There's a difference between that and correctly pointing out that a new president is embarrassing the nation with unprofessional behavior.

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, amvet said:

  Obama's CIA Director Brennan said that Trump should be “ashamed of himself” for his “despicable display of self-aggrandizement” at the CIA headquarters.

 

I don't think high ranking government officials of the "intelligence community" have any business shooting of their mouth about the new President.  It speaks to their loyalty to the country.  It's why Truman fired MacArthur.  

 

If you are a loyal American spy you try and let the President do his job.  Everybody thinks the spooks know a lot and they cal always say I can't explain it to you because of national security making everyone look like idiots. 

 

The opposition party is in the business to trash the opposing President, CIA and FBI and NSA are not.  Those men in or out of office still have a lot of influence and shout use it to help the President not hurt him. 

Some people just can't be helped.

[Jingthing]

36 minutes ago, amvet said:

  Obama's CIA Director Brennan said that Trump should be “ashamed of himself” for his “despicable display of self-aggrandizement” at the CIA headquarters.

 

I don't think high ranking government officials of the "intelligence community" have any business shooting of their mouth about the new President.  It speaks to their loyalty to the country.  It's why Truman fired MacArthur.  

 

If you are a loyal American spy you try and let the President do his job.  Everybody thinks the spooks know a lot and they cal always say I can't explain it to you because of national security making everyone look like idiots. 

 

The opposition party is in the business to trash the opposing President, CIA and FBI and NSA are not.  Those men in or out of office still have a lot of influence and shout use it to help the President not hurt him. 

Sounds like the POV of pro-FASCISM. Support whatever president mindlessly in lockstep no matter how horrible he is. That's totally wrong and totally un-American.

The current president is more flawed than any president in history.

He can NEVER be seen as anything even in the same neighborhood as NORMAL. 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Jingthing

[amvet]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sounds like the POV of pro-FASCISM. Support whatever president mindlessly in lockstep no matter how horrible he is. That's totally wrong and totally un-American.

The current president is more flawed than any president in history.

He can NEVER be seen as anything even in the same neighborhood as NORMAL. 

There are many parts of the government that are a part of the system of checks and balances that are in place to combat an out of control executive branch.  The CIA, FBI and NSA and the Army are not a part of the American system of checks and balances.  If the President is doing something wrong impeach him.  It is the USA not Zimbabwe.   I would debate your characterization of Trump as the most flawed President.  He hasn't started a war, half of the Union does not want to secede nor is he bonking young girls in the oval office.  

[amvet]

31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I take it you were appalled when Fox News found former government officials, including at least one convicted felon (Oliver North), to trash talk Democratic administrations.

 

BTW, MacArthur was publicly challenging Truman's restrictions on his actions in the Korean War.  MacArthur wanted to use nukes, Truman said no.  There's a difference between that and correctly pointing out that a new president is embarrassing the nation with unprofessional behavior.

I was.  I don't think Fox or CNN are doing a good job.  They are there to report the news not to try and influence it.  It is like having two differing versions of Pravda in the USA. 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, amvet said:

I was.  I don't think Fox or CNN are doing a good job.  They are there to report the news not to try and influence it.  It is like having two differing versions of Pravda in the USA. 

No, dude, that is not logical.

Fox is basically a trump regime propaganda network. That is like Pravda. 

CNN doesn't represent any regime.

That is not like Pravda.

I realize logic and facts can be difficult things for the trump apologist agenda. 

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, amvet said:

I was.  I don't think Fox or CNN are doing a good job.  They are there to report the news not to try and influence it.  It is like having two differing versions of Pravda in the USA. 

All of the 24 hour news channels have too much opinion and fluff and not enough straight news, but I consider Fox to be the worst.  The solution is to avoid the opinion and fluff programs, such as Trump's much beloved "Fox and Friends" and only watch the straight-up news programs.  Even Fox has decent "just news" programs, but they aren't very popular with the Fox viewers. 

 

A much better option is to rely on print media for important news.  That is what I do, and I've maintained since he first announced his candidacy that Trump is dangerously unqualified for office.  Now that he's in office I consider him dangerously unqualified and an embarrassment. 

 

Independently of Trump's appalling presidency I want Russian attempts to interfere with the election investigated and steps taken to limit such actions in the future.  I would want the same thing even if Clinton or any of the other candidates had been elected.  However if the Russia investigation reveals illegal activities by Trump and company, I will be happy to see them used to impeach the incompetent embarrassment.

[amvet]

33 minutes ago, heybruce said:

All of the 24 hour news channels have too much opinion and fluff and not enough straight news, but I consider Fox to be the worst.  The solution is to avoid the opinion and fluff programs, such as Trump's much beloved "Fox and Friends" and only watch the straight-up news programs.  Even Fox has decent "just news" programs, but they aren't very popular with the Fox viewers. 

 

A much better option is to rely on print media for important news.  That is what I do, and I've maintained since he first announced his candidacy that Trump is dangerously unqualified for office.  Now that he's in office I consider him dangerously unqualified and an embarrassment. 

 

Independently of Trump's appalling presidency I want Russian attempts to interfere with the election investigated and steps taken to limit such actions in the future.  I would want the same thing even if Clinton or any of the other candidates had been elected.  However if the Russia investigation reveals illegal activities by Trump and company, I will be happy to see them used to impeach the incompetent embarrassment.

Agree 100%.  Anyone who interferes with another country's elections should be outed.  If for some reason you know the truth and the country with the election does not know the truth I see nothing wrong with releasing that information.  If another country is lying about the Ukraine or Crimea the truth should be told. I think the determining factor is truth not who tells it.  If Trump colluded with anyone to release false information he should be impeached or if anyone else did they should be prosecuted. 

[Meljames]

7 hours ago, amvet said:

Putin and Russia didn't hack anything. 

 

 link needed.

[amvet]

5 minutes ago, Meljames said:

 

 link needed.

That's what I asked for.  Some kind of link that proves Putin and/or the Russian government hacked anything.  I think someone friendly to them phished emails and released them.  Nothing faked or phony real emails from the DNC.  I would have felt the same way if they released Republican emails.  Go for it.  Transparency in elections nothing wrong with that. The crux should be content not who released them.  Do you notice that CNN and the "intelligence community" never talk about the content only that Russia stole them.  

Edited November 24, 2017 by amvet

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, metisdead said:

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

Gotta love your new avatar. That is just perfect :D Well selected. 

[Skywalker69]

Reagan Economist Says Trump Tax Cuts Won’t Help Economy (Video)

 

https://thepostalblogger.com/reagan-economist-says-trump-tax-cut/

[Slip]

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/phone-turkey-trump/6210/

 

I know this guy is borderline satire and certainly not a credible source, but another load of toxic smoke is being belched out by the Trumpster fire.

 

Quote

Now, just hours after Flynn decided to negotiate a plea deal against Trump, Trump is suddenly on the phone with the leader of Turkey. It gets stranger.