superal Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 What is it that causes Thailand's roads to deteriorate so quickly ? I have seen new highways constructed and after only a couple of months potholes appear leading to repairs and even resurfacing . Also on minor roads where the surface has many potholes and is repaired but lasts for maybe 6 months until the rains come and then the potholes reappear . Aforementioned are all tarmacadam surfaces . I notice that on some junctions concrete is preferred and does not seem to suffer the pothole problem . When it is raining the holes fill up and cannot be seen . If you know the road well you are able to avoid them but for the stranger on a motorbike it must be frightening . Are the authorities liable for accidents caused by hazardous road surfaces as in other countries ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketrichard Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Heavy overloaded trucks...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrahmm Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) They just keep covering & filling....No crushed bedrock to cushion or give drainage..... The water undercuts the dirt causing bigger & bigger injured areas....Basically asphalt laying over dirt.... Many roads are not properly crowned for drainage & many that are are slanted away from the inertia of the way the vehicle needs to travel.... Edited June 17, 2017 by pgrahmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superal Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, pgrahmm said: They just keep covering & filling....No bedrock to cushion or give drainage.....The water undercuts the dirt causing bigger & bigger injured areas.... But you would think that their engineers would be aware of the construction mode and the future failings . Not exactly rocket science to copy western standards or Aussie specs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topt Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, superal said: But you would think that their engineers would be aware of the construction mode and the future failings . Not exactly rocket science to copy western standards or Aussie specs . Some posters will suggest that it is all part of job creation (read brown envelopes and on-going income streams for the connected - and their workers.......) so against their interests to only do it properly once. But that would be very cynical................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwasaki Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 hour ago, topt said: Some posters will suggest that it is all part of job creation (read brown envelopes and on-going income streams for the connected - and their workers.......) so against their interests to only do it properly once. But that would be very cynical................. l don't think it's a suggestion in some areas l would say it's spot on and fact, go for the cheapest quote and the biggest big hander. That said we have got some good roads here of which many l been on, as said depends on much of the preparation work and area locations of the roads etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiguzzi Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 hours ago, superal said: But you would think that their engineers would be aware of the construction mode and the future failings . Not exactly rocket science to copy western standards or Aussie specs . Yes, but Western standards and Aussie specs do not allow for, nor cater for illegal well overloaded 18 ton trucks, carrying sometimes triple weight allowed. As a previous poster mentioned, it is overweight trucks causing the majority of the problem. Hence you may see them moving at night, driving in convoy, because they know their load is illegal. Generally, 9 times out of 10, sugar cane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I would say a combination of overloaded trucks, brown envelopes changing hands at weigh stations, hot sun, and inferior materials getting used on road surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailand49 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 All the above and much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman20 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 5 hours ago, pgrahmm said: They just keep covering & filling....No crushed bedrock to cushion or give drainage..... The water undercuts the dirt causing bigger & bigger injured areas....Basically asphalt laying over dirt.... Many roads are not properly crowned for drainage & many that are are slanted away from the inertia of the way the vehicle needs to travel.... Someone who seems to know what he's talking about.Good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli42 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Two reasons, corruption and low building standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saladin Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 It is incompetence or corruption or both. I live in the Nimmanhaemin area, Chiang Mai's most up-market neighbourhood. After a new condo block next door was built the civic authorities plowed a ditch in the road to lay some pipes, then filled it up and put bitumen over it. Within 3 months it started to disintegrate and continues to do so. Last week I watched workers fill some deep potholes at the corner of Soi 6 with buckets of sand and then a coat of bitumen. No rocks were laid first and nothing was compacted, so those repairs will be good for one or two more heavy rains. It seems they use sub-standard materials and techniques and nobody seems to care or is accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foozool Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Ground movment, ☀️, ?, ?, ?, ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujayujay Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Incapability and Botch.....maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melovethai Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Corruption through the tiers of local government you end up with a 10mm surface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 It's a simple matter really, the roads are paid for by the council funding, the contractors bid for the contract and pay the councilors money to get their bid accepted. This is an ongoing thing with the roads here in Thailand and a great money earner all round every time they 'repair' the road, so, if they were to do a good job and make sure that the roads lasted for a year or two then no one would be getting the recurring money on a monthly basis. Logic really, well, here in Thailand anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Poor construction and corruption. One of the first things my wife told me was that Thai contractors build roads like crap in order to obtain new contracts to fix the crummy work in short order. Obviously the government must not include quality assurance clauses and penalties in their contracts, hence the reference to corruption. Cavet: I'm just repeating what my teerak told me. Really, how would I know? I'm a foreigner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, superal said: But you would think that their engineers would be aware of the construction mode and the future failings . Not exactly rocket science to copy western standards or Aussie specs . Yeah, they're laying concrete between Lamphun and CM on highway 11. I've seen concrete highways constructed in the West. Lot of rebar. On the sections being built here in Northern Thailand, I can say I've seen any rebar. Pretty much looks like they dig a hole and fill it in with cement. Then they come back in 7 to 10 years to fix it like they are doing due south of Lamphun, and even the fix is a crap job. Not even close to Western standards. But with that said, the infrastructure in the US is crumbling. At least Thailand is funding infrastructure projects. I'll give them credit for that! Edited June 17, 2017 by connda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybuz Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 2 hours ago, thaiguzzi said: Yes, but Western standards and Aussie specs do not allow for, nor cater for illegal well overloaded 18 ton trucks, carrying sometimes triple weight allowed. As a previous poster mentioned, it is overweight trucks causing the majority of the problem. Hence you may see them moving at night, driving in convoy, because they know their load is illegal. Generally, 9 times out of 10, sugar cane. have you seen the size of the mining equipment on aussie roads, also road trains which are yhe lenght of a football pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seajae Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 they are currently building a road behind our house, every time there is a king tide the road goes under, they have laid new water pipes beside the road and they are now building it up with the red dirt/clay they use to backfill land, no road base or crushed rock at all so once they finally get the surface done it will wash out after a few more king tides and be back to square one. Makes it hard when graft removes over 30% of the actual allowed cost, they call for a quote, take the lowest and pocket the difference, the winner then calls for quotes and does the same, this goes on till there is barely enough left to do the actual work so that the only way it can be done is by using crap material and cutting corners/specs. The engineers that are supposed to inspect and approve it have their lives or their families lives threatened if they do not pass it so they do, this is common knowledge to many people. The trucks are also a big part of it as they exceed the load limits for the roads in the first place and use roads they are not meant to. Have you ever seen the huge double grooves in bitumen roads where the trucks tires simply sink into the bitumen because it is just mud underneath and the excess weight the truck has on it is too much for the road, they are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildewillie89 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Building roads is something that is very corrupt in many places in Thai. Companies not only pay the local officials to pick them, but they also pay other construction companies to enter the bid, but make their price higher so they do not get chosen. Also many areas are unaware of taxes that they are meant to be collecting from these trucks for making these holes in the roads. So the holes in the road never get fixed, due to the fact the local authorities don't know the law regarding trucks having to pay taxes to use the roads. All just a big mess really unless the local authorities are really on top of the law and process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervona81732 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I kilometer cost 1 mill. Half a mill goes into someones pocket and the other goes into the road. Half of the asphalt that was scheduled to be put down. See it all the time. Where on earth would someone lay asphalt 1 inch thick. it is a big joke. Gives someone a job filling pot holes as soon as the asphalt fails. I'm not Thai bashing ( love it here ) but that's the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza4 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 8 hours ago, superal said: But you would think that their engineers would be aware of the construction mode and the future failings . Not exactly rocket science to copy western standards or Aussie specs . I fancy the theory that, like most things here, a portion of the funds, instead of buying the necessary ingredients to properly construct roads, goes into somebody's pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervona81732 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Yes, it is a sad fact and folks just go along with it because they know they can't change it. i found this out from my family and friends. I had no idea why this happens. Mai ben Rai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laza 45 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 8 hours ago, superal said: But you would think that their engineers would be aware of the construction mode and the future failings . Not exactly rocket science to copy western standards or Aussie specs . Money... the cost of building a road to Aussie standards is too expensive.... not just materials but also the investment in sophisticated equipment.. they do the best they can with the resources available.. I know it doesn't make sense to build a road that needs repairing shortly after being completed... but that is the way it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeab1980 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Your all missing the point. If you go out after dark (i know its hard for you gated dwellers but dont worry) you will find a gang going round digging potholes in roads. Then venture out again suring the day (again you gated dwellers dont worry those pesky thais wont bite you) you will see the same gang filling in the holes with cold tarmac. Waiting for a car to come along and compact down said tarmac. So keeping themselfs in work. Main reason i bought a pick up then had shocks upgraded to very heavy duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 10 hours ago, pgrahmm said: They just keep covering & filling....No crushed bedrock to cushion or give drainage..... The water undercuts the dirt causing bigger & bigger injured areas....Basically asphalt laying over dirt.... Many roads are not properly crowned for drainage & many that are are slanted away from the inertia of the way the vehicle needs to travel.... Exactly! Total lack of drainage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Bad foundation under the tarmac or cement surface, and lac of drainage, making it undermined by water; perhaps also due to, too fast construction. My best bid from local experience, and what I read about Roman road construction compared to modern road – mind you, the Roman Empire's roads are still in working condition after around 2,000 years or more of use, in some areas just with a tarmac layer on top – modern roads that lasts, use in principle the roman's recipe, but some of the materials has changed, like asphalt/tarmac as top-layer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ableguy Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 It's called the usual thirty percent cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaipo7 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I agree with Thailand49 adding that money exchanges too many hands and the top guy where the road goes through takes his cut and the rest goes to build the road. About 4 years ago, I made a left off of Route 2 in Tha Po on the way to Nong Khai above Udorn. Beautiful and so smooth the road was. The following year, went up there again and it was full of potholes you had to drive around and was a terrible road. All in 1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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