New immigration boss vows deep investigation of expats

[SongSomSoda]

guys like this new immigration 'boss' just want all the expats out

Not just him. Nearly all thai people :-)

ONLY our money is welcome, nothing else.



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[mommysboy]

It just amounts to yet another raft of daft obstacles which hassle innocent stayers, whilst any serious criminal will find a way of circumventing the problem, which he probably is doing already.

[Bureaucrat]

Such clumsy nonsensical language.

[DavisH]

7 hours ago, Thai Ron said:

Lots of them have long stay visas.

The guy convicted of raping his daughter in France (I think) was here for years.

The scummy paedophiles here teaching in schools or just preying on the children of poor Thais are on long term visas holed up in remote villages.

The Pattaya bar owner who disappeared and then turned up in jail back in the UK after raping a woman in her childhood and then again years later was here on a long stay visa.

The scum who had the body in a freezer were on long stay visas

The list is endless so stop trying to make out that the authorities are somehow picking on people on retirement and marriage visas for no good reason.

 

 

Great..out of the thousands on long term visas...you managed to name how many? Most undesirables don't have long term visas because they can be easily tracked. I insist their focus on law abiding farangs is misguided. 

[Bill Miller]

9 hours ago, lucjoker said:

this is a retirement visa, without leaving the country and without money in the bank........don't be confused with a simple non-o 

 

For I do not know how many thousands of times, THERE IS NO RETIREMENT VISA!
You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a 

•  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 
  No idea what you are on about, but it required either 800,000 baht seasoned in a Thai bank account or proof of 65,000 baht/month retirement income.
  I just did the process, and that is what was required.
  There is NO strictly legal way to do this without meeting the financial requirements.
  One aspect that cemented my decision to go to Laos was the "proof of residence" required at Jomtien.
  The condo was rented by my girlfriend because Thai landlords simply do not wish the hassle of reporting falang residents, and probably not incidentally becoming liable for taxes on the income.
  I do not even know who the landlord is as they pay a maid here to "manage" their units.
  If you know of "...a retirement visa, without leaving the country and without money in the bank........", please let the rest of us falangs and The Royal Thai Police who run immigration know all about it.

[hawker9000]

12 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

For I do not know how many thousands of times, THERE IS NO RETIREMENT VISA!
You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a 

•  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 
  No idea what you are on about, but it required either 800,000 baht seasoned in a Thai bank account or proof of 65,000 baht/month retirement income.
  I just did the process, and that is what was required.
  There is NO strictly legal way to do this without meeting the financial requirements.
  One aspect that cemented my decision to go to Laos was the "proof of residence" required at Jomtien.
  The condo was rented by my girlfriend because Thai landlords simply do not wish the hassle of reporting falang residents, and probably not incidentally becoming liable for taxes on the income.
  I do not even know who the landlord is as they pay a maid here to "manage" their units.
  If you know of "...a retirement visa, without leaving the country and without money in the bank........", please let the rest of us falangs and The Royal Thai Police who run immigration know all about it.

"One aspect that cemented my decision to go to Laos was the "proof of residence" required at Jomtien.
The condo was rented by my girlfriend because Thai landlords simply do not wish the hassle of reporting falang residents, and probably not incidentally becoming liable for taxes on the income."

 

Amazing how slow and tortured the path this new reality is taking...    And affects plain vanilla tourists as well if staying in a condo and wanting a 30d extension.  (Or just wanting to be legal...)

Edited July 8, 2017 by hawker9000

[Kim1950]

3 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

For I do not know how many thousands of times, THERE IS NO RETIREMENT VISA!
You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 
 

I have baffled over this issue for months, as I would like a long stay in Thailand for retirement. Aside from the semantics, there is no such thing as a Retirement Visa for Thailand, like Panama, or some other countries. You have the OA-Long Stay Visa that you must get outside of Thailand with all it's requirements that needs to be renewed under who knows what future requirements at the discretion of a immigration officer. Then there seems to be a cryptic in country tourist visa extension to 90 days that with other requirements might get you another one year, by year extension. This one beats me. But, promoted by many agencies.

 

No matter your sentiments, Thailand is a fast developing country, sooner or later, by financies, background, length of stay or health there will be more stringent requirements for foreigners to stay in Thailand long term.

[morrobay]

Could this be related to all the criticisim by Pattaya expats online about Thais and about everything Thais do in Pattaya ?

[Kim1950]

10 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Could this be related to all the criticisim by Pattaya expats online about Thais and about everything Thais do in Pattaya ?

No necessarily, I was stationed in Thailand for two years during in Vietnam War, as a young man I fell in love with the country, lived with the locals. Served with the Thai Army. Since then I traveled there many times on business. I was simply looking  for a Visa that was longer than 30 days and not a tour of Spring Break. Spend time traveling the country and maybe neighboring countries. Might stay longer. But, that seems way too complicated. For people in the US, South America is a better deal for retirement other than the sophomoric fascination with much younger Thai women. Pattaya was there in my war days, though many deny that to be the case. Then it was cheap party time bungalows for people out of U-Tapao and flights in and out U-Tapao or port Satthip, busy times. Each there own. I am judge on people. Not for me. 

[Iamtoofat]

I wonder when we will be able to restrict immigrant numbers here in Australia. Lol. We can learn from the Thai government. 

[bkk6060]

6 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

For I do not know how many thousands of times, THERE IS NO RETIREMENT VISA!
You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a 

•  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 
  No idea what you are on about, but it required either 800,000 baht seasoned in a Thai bank account or proof of 65,000 baht/month retirement income.
  I just did the process, and that is what was required.
  There is NO strictly legal way to do this without meeting the financial requirements.
  One aspect that cemented my decision to go to Laos was the "proof of residence" required at Jomtien.
  The condo was rented by my girlfriend because Thai landlords simply do not wish the hassle of reporting falang residents, and probably not incidentally becoming liable for taxes on the income.
  I do not even know who the landlord is as they pay a maid here to "manage" their units.
  If you know of "...a retirement visa, without leaving the country and without money in the bank........", please let the rest of us falangs and The Royal Thai Police who run immigration know all about it.

Yeah well, probably everyone knows it by that even the IO at immigration refer to it as a Retirement Visa.  Say OA long stay and many people have no idea what you are talking about.

But who cares.....

As far as the financial or any other requirements there is a way around it all.  You can have nothing but your passport and get your Retirement Visa.  Just walk into one of the many agencies, pay, and you can get it all done.  I meet the requirements but did not have the time to deal with it and got the full 15 months in 40 minutes.  

So the old saying money talks and BS walks........

Edited July 9, 2017 by bkk6060

[tandor]

17 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

After living here for 18 months and getting out a lot I am surprised somewhat by a few things:

How many criminals/ex-cons there are here.

How many overstayers there are here.

How many of them actually admit it with a follow-up of" I need to stay off the radar".

..don't trouble yourself too much..leave them be..they have their own reasons, as we all do, for being here.

[YetAnother]

12 hours ago, SongSomSoda said:

 

Not just him. Nearly all thai people :-)

ONLY our money is welcome, nothing else.



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wish it wouldnt take so many people so  long to figure that out here;

as to the specifics of the article, the WAY it was done is troubling; like pounding your chest in public

[morrobay]

13 hours ago, SongSomSoda said:

 

Not just him. Nearly all thai people :-)

ONLY our money is welcome, nothing else.



Gesendet von meinem LG-H990 mit Tapatalk
 

 

 

Someone needs to inform the Thais they cant have it both ways : If not for all the foreigners in/visiting Thailand and all the foreign direct investment ( manufacturing  for export)

this place would be lucky to have a Laos level economy.

Edited July 9, 2017 by morrobay

[bruceamstutz]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 10:03 PM, ezzra said:

I'm not sure what to make out of this statements....

Such a vague statement, it really could mean anything by saying ' to insure

people with a long term visa are safe in this country, followed by ' we

will deeply investigate all those who wish to have long term visa '

so what were they doing so far? not investigation those who wanted

long terms visa?....

...

55555....Sounds to me like the normal new guy on the block chin music that will never go any where......

[perthperson]

5 minutes ago, bruceamstutz said:

55555....Sounds to me like the normal new guy on the block chin music that will never go any where......

I don't know. There are many anecdotes about ex-pats and various visa scams which I am sure would produce rich reward if "investigated" deeply" 

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a 

•  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 

To clarify - If you don't already have a Non-O Visa when you arrive (example: arrive as a tourist), you can convert to a Non-O 90-day single-entry visa in-country.  THEN, you can apply for a "1 year extension of stay."   The bottom line is, you must already have a "Non Immigrant" type visa first, before you can apply for the 1-year permission of stay extension.  Because the Non-O 90-day visa can be obtained at an immigration-office in Thailand - this process can be done, legally, without leaving Thailand. 

If you are served by the Bangkok office, you are set, as they "follow the rules" for processing "conversions" of tourist to Non-O 90-days.  But if you live somewhere else, the local office may throw up all sorts of barriers (extra documents and/or MFA certification of documents, and/or landlord's ID) to encourage you to pay a hefty fee extra (either directly, or via an agent) to do the conversion.

 

The "O-A Long Stay Visa" is another thing, entirely, and provides a 1-year permitted-to-stay stamp upon each entry.  This is not the same as a Non-O 90-day single-entry based on retirement - and not the same as a Non-O Multiple-Entry based on retirement (recently still available from Penang, for example), where one obtains 90-day permit-of-stay stamps upon each use.  The "O-A Long Stay Visa" cannot be obtained in Thailand - only in your passport-country or country of permanent-residence; you can go directly from that to a retirement-extension without conversion with it.

Edited July 9, 2017 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

 

16 hours ago, mrboatbkk said:

Sorry for not giving details I mentioned that because I asked the nurse there and learned that TT hey got free treatment the same way as my Thai relative was getting. It is really a generosity regardless of who the patients are.

In that case, they must have worked here legally - currently or in the past - and have continuously paid into the Thai health system to maintain coverage.  Not the same as 'free' - but it is a very affordable health-care program with good results relative to the insurance-premium cost. 

[JackThompson]

 

On 7/7/2017 at 5:52 PM, Kim1950 said:

In the US we simply allow thousands of people to enter our country as undocumented people than after a period time they become expats. Sounds like a better policy.

Yep.  Screening?  Who needs screening?  Drug-Gangs like MS-13 wreaking havoc in poorer communities and helping poison millions of our citizens?  Just a peripheral issue to be ignored, as the Big Question is kept in focus: "Will they work for cheap?" That seems to be the only question the National Chamber of Commerce, Heitage Foundation, and CATO Institute in the USA cares about. 

 

It is sad to see the Thais who might work in the construction-industry undermined in a similar fashion to what was done to us in the USA - though at least there is a fairly-strict process of screening/registering foreigners working in Thailand, since the current govt came to power.   With factory-workers - either the factories get to hire non-Thais for 1/2 the Thai labor-cost, or they move to Vietnam - a "rock and a hard-place" situation.  But with construction, which must be done on-site, there is no similar reasoning.  A few more baht per sq/mt to provide many good-paying Thai jobs would not make those projects any less financially-sound.
 

On 7/7/2017 at 6:14 PM, observer90210 said:

On 7/7/2017 at 6:06 PM, buick said:

this is how most countries on earth began.  invaders took out the local population via violence and/or disease.  was it different for your passport country ?

Of course not...that's why we think twice before barking at the illegals

So, it is OK to repeat the process, and allow our civilization to be destroyed - though we know from history how these things work?  Consider the civilization being replaced, and the one which is replacing it.  How is the world better-off when the only 1st World Civilizations with large middle-classes and unfettered freedom-of-speech are replaced (open-borders-suicidally) with "PC-speech-police" (don't talk about the destruction of citizen-families with unlimited foreign-labor or you are a "bigot") + "race to the lowest wage" civilizations with flooded labor-pools?  

 

The world, currently, has an infinite supply of cheap-labor, relative to work to be done.  That supply can swamp and destroy every higher-civilization simply by not enforcing the borders of the islands of sanity - where people have children at a rate which matches ongoing technological progress, which is reducing the need for physical-labor. 

 

If only my passport-country, the USA, had the "problem" Thailand has - self-funded expats from 1st World nations wanting to move to our nation in droves, and spend vast sums of foreign-capital (collectively) into our economy.  

 

19 hours ago, DavisH said:

... those that are working on tourist visas ...

A few English and water-sports teachers?   Easy to find them - but hardly a major problem worth causing problems for the vast-majority of expats here - including those spending a lot of time here on Tourist-Visas - who do not work illegally, and would work in higher-paying nations if they were inclined to work - not scrabble with Thais for lower-paying jobs.

[perthperson]

11 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a 

•  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 

 

False and misleading information. 

 

It is impossible to "convert" to an OA visa which can ONLY be obtained from a Thai Embassy/consulate in a persons home country or country of legal residence.

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, perthperson said:

False and misleading information. 

It is impossible to "convert" to an OA visa which can ONLY be obtained from a Thai Embassy/consulate in a persons home country or country of legal residence.

You don't need to 'convert' it.  It is a non-immigrant visa, so you can go directly to 1-year extensions of stay (provided you meet those requirements).  The error was implying that this special type of visa (the O-A type) is the only pre-requisite for obtaining a 1-year extension, when there are other, easier, ways to get there.

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

You don't need to 'convert' it.  It is a non-immigrant visa, so you can go directly to 1-year extensions of stay (provided you meet those requirements).  The error was implying that this special type of visa (the O-A type) is the only pre-requisite for obtaining a 1-year extension, when there are other, easier, ways to get there.

 

Read it again Jack !  

 

The implication in the post I responded to was that an OA could be obtained by conversion - It cannot! 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Read it again Jack ! 

The implication in the post I responded to was that an OA could be obtained by conversion - It cannot! 

Yes - agreed on that point.  There were several false-implications, based on the use of incorrect terminology, in that post.  Between the two of us, I hope we have corrected the record, so others do not go off on wild-goose chases.

[JackThompson]

On 7/8/2017 at 6:42 AM, KittenKong said:

Always. I am thoroughly aware that Thailand only wants my money and would be delighted to see the back of me if it could afford to. Anyone who doesnt see that is an idiot.

A tiny percentage of elite Thais, perhaps.  Certainly not the general population, who appreciate us greatly.

 

On 7/7/2017 at 1:50 PM, cyberfarang said:

5. Are you paying an agency to assist with meeting your annual immigration requirements?

THIS ^^^ is the "security hole" in the system - agents. 

Think about it - imagine a dangerous/ criminal-type - and ask yourself where would he go for his visa?  Straight to the friendly-agent - that's where.  Or, maybe, the Elite Visa route.  Either can be used avoid any interaction with the authorities for years.  Those of us who willingly go to Immigration for face-to-face time, are much less likely to be "bad guys."  

 

I want to live in a Safe Thailand, so I have no problem what so ever with home-visits, since those are a potentially-effective way to separate the honest from the dishonest.  The "more paperwork and special-stamps" shuffle?  Not so much - just a way to drive people to agents and/or send frustrated honest-folks out of the country.

 

Jobs in expat-areas are a job-path out of poverty for Millions of Thais, who also support their families out in the sticks, thus lessening the pressure for socialist/handout policies, and support of political-groups who wish to undermine a market-based economy.   Communism is best undermined by providing economic-opportunity for the greatest percentage of the population within the market-system.  Reducing the expat-population here - even the 'marginal living' ones who are not wealthy - undermines that goal. 

 

Every expat who is not taking a Thai job or involved in crime is bringing wealth to Thailand, which creates job-opportunities.    Let's hope those in charge do not lose sight of this, and buy into the notion that Western-expats can be economically-replaced with a flood of much poorer short-term tourists, encouraged to come with 'free visas' (saving a whopping 1000 baht).  Consider even the "lowly" poor-retiree, who buys his food from street-vendors; note that street-vendors can be "over 35" and still work their jobs - unlike many entry-level jobs (see the job-ads for the age-restrictions posted - including 7-11, where the 'new tourist' types shop).  Also consider that large volumes of lower-spenders coming in/out for shorter periods have much higher per-capita overhead costs, than longer-stayers.

 

As part of consideration, I only with those making the decisions would ask actual "Thai Citizens" which nations' visitors they prefer.  The Thais I have met bash our "replacements" without any prompting, and wish for the "good old days" of more USA/Euro foreigners.  From the moto-driver to the cafe-owner - it is always the same sentiment, which boils down to a difference in manners and spending-patterns.

Edited July 9, 2017 by JackThompson

[Bill Miller]

31 minutes ago, perthperson said:

 

False and misleading information. 

 

It is impossible to "convert" to an OA visa which can ONLY be obtained from a Thai Embassy/consulate in a persons home country or country of legal residence.

Correction noted and appreciated.
I meant a non immigration  type "O", not an "O-A".
I did in fact convert to a non immigration "O" last year from a thirty day "on arrival" at Bkk immigration.

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, Bill Miller said:

from a thirty day "on arrival"

 

None of these either !  Only 30 day visa exempt entries 

 

[Bill Miller]

Just now, perthperson said:

 

None of these either !  Only 30 day visa exempt entries 

 

Which is, ipso facto, thirty days visa exempt "on arrival".
No "visa" stated or implied.

[perthperson]

8 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Which is, ipso facto, thirty days visa exempt "on arrival".
No "visa" stated or implied.

 

It always helps to be precise when using terms that many are not familiar with. 

 

I have noted that sloppy (inaccurate) use of terminology leads to confusion and misunderstanding.

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, perthperson said:

 

It always helps to be precise when using terms that many are not familiar with. 

 

I have noted that sloppy (inaccurate) use of terminology leads to confusion and misunderstanding.

Even th Thai immigration officers mis-name the various visas, partially because of the language barrier and partially because of a lack of understanding of what a visa actually is. 

 

This is a very old topic -- ten years ago wew were chewing it over ad nauseum in here and the same mistakes were being made, so it's no surprise that people are confused.  The Visa stamp in your passport tells the IO at the point of entry that you're been "looked at" and he can take some comfort from the fact that you passed muster = based on retirment, marriage, whatever.  It does *not* confer an automatic right of entry,  that's up to the IO poised with his permit to enter stamp and a date stamp.  Obviously.the IO usually goes with the "recommendation" the visa confers on the holder, but don't annoy the IO - he has the power to say "NO", and generally make your life more difficult. 

 

There are no freedom of movement rights for travellers to Thailand and "This isn't Kansas anymore" are two things that many travellers fail to understand. Keep in mind the thousands of people who come to Thailand and have no issues with their visas and duration of stay, because they took the trouble to read the rules and abide by them - even when the rules sometimes are a bit "strange"  

 

Trying to place some value on a farang's presence in Thailand is not something that endears the foreigners to the Thais.......

[David Walden]

13 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

For I do not know how many thousands of times, THERE IS NO RETIREMENT VISA!
You can get up to one year extension of permission to stay based on retirement or marriage, but one must FIRST obtain, or convert to, a 

•  "Non-Immigrant OA-Long Stay Visa", 
  No idea what you are on about, but it required either 800,000 baht seasoned in a Thai bank account or proof of 65,000 baht/month retirement income.
  I just did the process, and that is what was required.
  There is NO strictly legal way to do this without meeting the financial requirements.
  One aspect that cemented my decision to go to Laos was the "proof of residence" required at Jomtien.
  The condo was rented by my girlfriend because Thai landlords simply do not wish the hassle of reporting falang residents, and probably not incidentally becoming liable for taxes on the income.
  I do not even know who the landlord is as they pay a maid here to "manage" their units.
  If you know of "...a retirement visa, without leaving the country and without money in the bank........", please let the rest of us falangs and The Royal Thai Police who run immigration know all about it.

Your advice seems to forget my earlier post that called for consistency with advice from Thai Consulates and Embassies  The 6 Thai Consuls in Australia have different rules depending on what you want to know.  Here is a link to the application form from Perth Australia it clearly gives advice for people seeking a "Retirement Visa" in Australia.  other Consuls in Australia refer to them as Retirement O-A, others refer to them as A-O.  When an applicant wants a "Retirement Visa" perhaps that what they should call it.

 

http://www.thaiconsulateperth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/ThaiConsulatePerth_VisaApplicationForm.pdf

 

When you go to a doctor or lawyer or for that matter a immigration officer anywhere in the world you are simply requesting that that person explains complex medical, legal or immigration matters into layman terms in other words just make it easy.  They are the experts.   Like the old saying as my mother to use "where there is a will there is a way.  But TIT