Transfering estate settlement from UK to Thailand.. any problems?

[Laza 45]

A friend of mine who's husband passed away over a year ago in the Uk has received a message that his estate has been settled and the family want to send her a cash payment from the estate.  I don't know just how much it will be but my guess is that it could be as much as 2 or 3 million Bt..  Can anyone tell me if there are any problems with transferring this amount of money  directly to her bank account?  Is she likely to have a tax liability?  Would sending smaller amounts over time be a better option?  Any information that could prevent future complications would be appreciated.

[esprit]

There may be a death duty tax payable to the UK but the amounts mentions indicate that this is below the threshold.  If you want to ensure no tax is paid then can I suggest you email the Junta PM for advice as to setting up a BVI account as he did a few days prior to the coup to ensure no tax was paid on his land purchase from his Father.  That should sort it nicely.

 

Best you ask this question outside of Thailand due to the proliferation of "disappearances" lately.

 

Have nice day and good luck.

[al007]

I am but a simple retired  UK Chartered Accountant, I do not work and have neither need nor wish to do so

 

However I am always happy to help,  to answer  your question  properly needs to have  more questions answered, first;  if you want to talk to me I am happy to tell you my thoughts, if you wish this then Pm me and I will give you my phone number

 

Good luck also be careful many vultures are always looking for prey

Edited July 18, 2017 by al007

[natway09]

Absolutely no reason why cannot just transfer the money to one of the Big 5  banks here

DO NOT listen to any person in regard to,,,, I will do it for you & get you a better exchange rate Blah Blah.

Make sure they keep any documentation of the inward transfer in case in the future they want send up to this

amount as an outward transfer

 

[Laza 45]

18 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Absolutely no reason why cannot just transfer the money to one of the Big 5  banks here

DO NOT listen to any person in regard to,,,, I will do it for you & get you a better exchange rate Blah Blah.

Make sure they keep any documentation of the inward transfer in case in the future they want send up to this

amount as an outward transfer

 

Thank you...I was hoping that it would be that easy...   No.. I won't be replying to any helpful Nigerians..  or anyone else with such offers... 

[khunPer]

There is no inherit tax in Thailand. You friend may be required to fill a form for the National Bank when a foreign transfer is over a certain value – think it's equivalent to $50,000 now – to my knowledge, the same form as the one used when you transfer money to buy real estate or invest.

[Laza 45]

8 hours ago, khunPer said:

There is no inherit tax in Thailand. You friend may be required to fill a form for the National Bank when a foreign transfer is over a certain value – think it's equivalent to $50,000 now – to my knowledge, the same form as the one used when you transfer money to buy real estate or invest.

Thank you...  :-)

[DekDaeng]

Best leave it there (in uk), draw on it as required.

[Laza 45]

9 minutes ago, DekDaeng said:

Best leave it there (in uk), draw on it as required.

...I thought that maybe setting up a small pension might be a good idea.. a lump sum is likely to be gone quickly..  Thanks..

[SantiSuk]

I am but a simple retired  UK Chartered Accountant, I do not work and have neither need nor wish to do so
 
However I am always happy to help,  to answer  your question  properly needs to have  more questions answered, first;  if you want to talk to me I am happy to tell you my thoughts, if you wish this then Pm me and I will give you my phone number
 
Good luck also be careful many vultures are always looking for prey

Ditto re retired CA status. [Ex PwC Al].

Have also acted as executor of deceased family members where I have made distributions to legatees residing or domiciled outside the UK.

The executor will have accounted for any UK taxation arising on the money to be received that comes out of the value of the deceased's assets at the deceased's date of death.

I am not a Thai taxation expert; no harm in asking at a Thai tax office if she is happy to be squeaky clean, but remember to emphasise that the receipts will be coming out of an estate which has been subjected to any taxation due on the estate in the UK.

The only minor wrinkle is that any distributed money coming out of income within the estate post death potentially attracts UK income tax (at estate rates). The executor will have dealt with paying such taxation and any such distribution will be an after tax amount and should be accompanied by advice from the executor about the gross amount and UK tax deducted. The gross amount received is income in the hands of your legatee friend and could in theory attract Thai income tax in Thailand. Very unlikely that any Thai tax would arise unless she is already suffering Thai taxation on the margin exceeding the 28% tax that the distribution of post-death income has suffered in the UK.

If she wants to avoid signing the Thai bank papers relating to a receipt of a large amount of foreign-sourced money (not sure of current precise trigger amount of this - within the last 2 years I have needed to do it myself on GBP 50,000, but not on GBP 25,000) she could ask the executor to split the payments.

As a legatee she should expect to receive a full account of the estate's assets and how they have been distributed (but only on final settlement of the estate which may be a year or 2 down the road). I assume as the deceased's wife she is not getting a trivial share so she should look out for this. If not received and requests are ignored then fear the worst and consider action. We all know how some families view "Daddy's dodgy late life with some dodgy Asian bride". No slurs intended by me! If she was my friend I would be asking her what she knew about her hubby's assets
and any intentions he had indicated towards her.

Like Al, I'm not interested in continuing a professional advisory career but happy to relay ad hoc experience to fellow Brits.

Good luck (to her also)!

[SantiSuk]

P'S I would hesitate to get too involved in the loop of Thai lady receiving wedge and it's spending, but OP would be more likely to get a willing ear if he advised on a range of solutions for dealing with the money including a proportion for longer term assets that are more familiar to Thais than pensions/annuities. Rentable commercial property/farm land providing an income would be a possibility if we are talking ThB 2m plus.

[Laza 45]

1 hour ago, SantiSuk said:

 

Ditto re retired CA status. [Ex PwC Al].

Have also acted as executor of deceased family members where I have made distributions to legatees residing or domiciled outside the UK.

The executor will have accounted for any UK taxation arising on the money to be received that comes out of the value of the deceased's assets at the deceased's date of death.

I am not a Thai taxation expert; no harm in asking at a Thai tax office if she is happy to be squeaky clean, but remember to emphasise that the receipts will be coming out of an estate which has been subjected to any taxation due on the estate in the UK.

The only minor wrinkle is that any distributed money coming out of income within the estate post death potentially attracts UK income tax (at estate rates). The executor will have dealt with paying such taxation and any such distribution will be an after tax amount and should be accompanied by advice from the executor about the gross amount and UK tax deducted. The gross amount received is income in the hands of your legatee friend and could in theory attract Thai income tax in Thailand. Very unlikely that any Thai tax would arise unless she is already suffering Thai taxation on the margin exceeding the 28% tax that the distribution of post-death income has suffered in the UK.

If she wants to avoid signing the Thai bank papers relating to a receipt of a large amount of foreign-sourced money (not sure of current precise trigger amount of this - within the last 2 years I have needed to do it myself on GBP 50,000, but not on GBP 25,000) she could ask the executor to split the payments.

As a legatee she should expect to receive a full account of the estate's assets and how they have been distributed (but only on final settlement of the estate which may be a year or 2 down the road). I assume as the deceased's wife she is not getting a trivial share so she should look out for this. If not received and requests are ignored then fear the worst and consider action. We all know how some families view "Daddy's dodgy late life with some dodgy Asian bride". No slurs intended by me! If she was my friend I would be asking her what she knew about her hubby's assets
and any intentions he had indicated towards her.

Like Al, I'm not interested in continuing a professional advisory career but happy to relay ad hoc experience to fellow Brits.

Good luck (to her also)!
 

 

Many thanks for all that.. very helpful..

[al007]

3 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

Ditto re retired CA status. [Ex PwC Al].
 

 

Was also ex  PW,  UK( where I qualified) and Jamaica all a very very long time ago, (before computers, before electronic calculators)

 

It takes a lot of time, years and training to achieve this qualification many say the most challenging of any professional qualification in the UK, a financial adviser can often get his qualification in six months

 

Still the top qualification (FCA) globally and best  basic training for understanding money and finance

 

We are the fortunate ones understanding money and investment risk is relatively easy for us, and again I say to many; be very careful there are many crooks out there, ( highly qualified in removing money from the unsuspecting) if in doubt talk to people like SantiSuk or myself we will help out of good will, no guarantees, but we might just steer you away from disaster

 

Remember if a financial return sounds too good it probably is, and if a bank offers a far better rate is that bank and your capital SAFE

 

I do not believe in bonds that is the other extreme, on my own investments I aim for 20% per annum, ( I can generally go fully to cash at most times of the day in 2/3 mins, I am not a trader) I would only probably recommend my strategy to other very well qualified financial people, and am happy to discuss and share on PM

 

Even with medium sized sums like the original  poster talks about, the vultures are hovering !! and it is not easy for the general population

[meatboy]

On 18/7/2560 at 3:05 PM, Laza 45 said:

Thank you...I was hoping that it would be that easy...   No.. I won't be replying to any helpful Nigerians..  or anyone else with such offers... 

dont forget if the trans.is for around 3million bht.she can get a better exchange rate than TT from the recieving bank.

eg.when my wife sold her house in the uk.and trans.the amount to thailand,no tax to pay but a call from the recieving bank in bkk.resulted in 16satang better rate,so at around 70,000gbp.=11,000bht.not to be sniffed at.

[al007]

1 minute ago, meatboy said:

dont forget if the trans.is for around 3million bht.she can get a better exchange rate than TT from the recieving bank.

eg.when my wife sold her house in the uk.and trans.the amount to thailand,no tax to pay but a call from the recieving bank in bkk.resulted in 16satang better rate,so at around 70,000gbp.=11,000bht.not to be sniffed at.

Very correct

[meatboy]

3million bht.in a thais hands,that would be not something i would recomend,12,000bht.a month for over 20yrs.that would be a lot better than wasting someones hard earned.

[fletchsmile]

If all the UK side has been properly "settled" then there's nothing to worry about from the Thai side.

 

Under Section 42 of the Thai Revenue code income derived from inheritance, is exempt from income tax. Also on the amount involved and as its from assets outside Thailand there is no inheritance tax due either.

 

For transferring the money just do a single transfer via SWIFT. No point splitting it into smaller amounts - that will just incur unecessary extra fees and costs.

Make sure the money is sent in GBP not THB, to her Thai bank account, so that it'll be converted into THB onshore here in Thailand. The exchange rate is better. Exchange rates for THB in the UK are poor.

When the money arrives on amounts of that size, the bank will usually call to notify you and offer a counter rate, which is usually a decent rate for SWIFT transfers. Ask the bank if they can improve on that rate. Usually they can a little, and you'll end up a few thousand baht better off.

If you've never done before, given the size, it's worth contacting your bank beforehand to let them know the money will be coming over, and asking them to let you know when it comes in.

 

Keep all paperwork.

 

Cheers

Fletch :)

 

(P.S. ex UK PWC accountant also as this thread seems to be collecting them +  worked in various accounting/ finance roles in Thailand among other things  )

Edited July 20, 2017 by fletchsmile

[Laza 45]

46 minutes ago, fletchsmile said:

If all the UK side has been properly "settled" then there's nothing to worry about from the Thai side.

 

Under Section 42 of the Thai Revenue code income derived from inheritance, is exempt from income tax. Also on the amount involved and as its from assets outside Thailand there is no inheritance tax due either.

 

For transferring the money just do a single transfer via SWIFT. No point splitting it into smaller amounts - that will just incur unecessary extra fees and costs.

Make sure the money is sent in GBP not THB, to her Thai bank account, so that it'll be converted into THB onshore here in Thailand. The exchange rate is better. Exchange rates for THB in the UK are poor.

When the money arrives on amounts of that size, the bank will usually call to notify you and offer a counter rate, which is usually a decent rate for SWIFT transfers. Ask the bank if they can improve on that rate. Usually they can a little, and you'll end up a few thousand baht better off.

If you've never done before, given the size, it's worth contacting your bank beforehand to let them know the money will be coming over, and asking them to let you know when it comes in.

 

Keep all paperwork.

 

Cheers

Fletch :)

 

(P.S. ex UK PWC accountant also as this thread seems to be collecting them +  worked in various accounting/ finance roles in Thailand among other things  )

Thanks for that.. good advice.. I'm going to the bank with her tomorrow.. will follow your advice..   PS.. I've got a pretty good BS detector.. :-)

 

[Laza 45]

Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.. your advice is much appreciated.. I think I have things sorted now..  :-)

 

[SantiSuk]

3 hours ago, meatboy said:

3million bht.in a thais hands,that would be not something i would recomend,12,000bht.a month for over 20yrs.that would be a lot better than wasting someones hard earned.

Agree with the sentiment from a rational planning viewpoint, but:

 

• ultimately it's noone's call how the money is sent other than the executor responding to the directions of the will (if there is one)
• it's noone's call other than hers on receipt of the money  though of course anyone is free to try to persude her in her own unwitting best interests (but there's a risk that is us forcing our culture on hers).
• finding a construct that will pay money over in tranches over a period of time is a bit of an issue in Thailand isn't it? I wouldn't trust the UK family or an executor to take on that role and I doubt the executor would want to. If anyone knows of a good reliable construct in Thailand for achieving that I would be interested to know!
   

Visiting the bank tomorrow? If that's going to take in consideration of possible deposits/investments as a home (short/medium or long term) then may be worth considering the bank's insurance products. I transfer some money to my wife every year out of my surplus income (my PwC pension and investment income is more than enough for living here after 30 years with that firm / 20 as a partner); exempt from IHT gifts out of surplus income is partial insurance against the prospect that HMRC does not agree I am domiciled in Thailand at time of death and partially the risk that I still have non-exempt UK assets even if I do qualify as non-dom - if I were to fall under a bus tomorrow. So, I was in Krungsri Bank with my TW a year or so ago and they tried to sell her a long term insurance product. I was bounced by her enthusiasm to swallow the sales messages (didn't have the time to fully understand the full spec and made a mental note to discuss it later with my own English speaking Krungsri relationship manager up in Bangkok if there was a thought to seriously go down that track). So I persuaded TW to limit the 'punt' to 100,000 baht and suck it and see. Yesterday a cheque arrived for her for just over 8 grand. Even if that's a 2 year return on 100,000 baht committed for 10 years it's not bad and could have a bigger part to play in my own design of TW's investment profile. Don't know enough about the product yet but will be trying to get a full handle on it now I've seen that apparently it's not just a waste of time. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by SantiSuk
Sorry just seen your coterminous post OP!

[meatboy]

when the wife sold her property in the uk.she trans.to thailand and put into plain and simple fixed term deposit accs.

land and house.

thai credit union.

scb.when the rates were better.

thai gov.savings bank,3yrs.lottery tkts.@ 50bht.each with a eg.5,000tks.=250,000bht.around 2.25% at the end of term plus your investment.and winnings.

[SantiSuk]

Interesting Meatboy, but I don't want to give my wife any more encouragement/sanction over her lottery habits! Not a problem up to now, but that portion of her money (my ex-money) going into that plus cards, less than 5% of her resources I reckon, might have been better spent - invested or given away to unfortunates. Have never been excited about the something for nothing side of life (but believe in personal freedom and dislike holier-than-thoughs!).

 

Anyone know what the return on Thai government lottery tickets is generally? If anything like many other national lotteries probably negative 5 to 10%? (I recognise that for this product it would appear that your investment is not exposed to that risk) 

[meatboy]

22 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

Interesting Meatboy, but I don't want to give my wife any more encouragement/sanction over her lottery habits! Not a problem up to now, but that portion of her money (my ex-money) going into that plus cards, less than 5% of her resources I reckon, might have been better spent - invested or given away to unfortunates. Have never been excited about the something for nothing side of life (but believe in personal freedom and dislike holier-than-thoughs!).

 

Anyone know what the return on Thai government lottery tickets is generally? If anything like many other national lotteries probably negative 5 to 10%? (I recognise that for this product it would appear that your investment is not exposed to that risk) 

the first batch she bought 6yrs.ago a 3,000 block she won around 8,000bht.3yr.term plus 2.75% return.

she has another block maturing next month,the winnings have been poor and the % is not that good,so its FIND A NEW HOME for it.

i have been lucky,the wife had a good job in the uk.[20yrs] so she nows the value of hard earned cash.

in other words she is as tight as a ducks a---.

[khunPer]

On 7/20/2017 at 4:17 AM, SantiSuk said:

 

Ditto re retired CA status. [Ex PwC Al].

Have also acted as executor of deceased family members where I have made distributions to legatees residing or domiciled outside the UK.

The executor will have accounted for any UK taxation arising on the money to be received that comes out of the value of the deceased's assets at the deceased's date of death.

I am not a Thai taxation expert; no harm in asking at a Thai tax office if she is happy to be squeaky clean, but remember to emphasise that the receipts will be coming out of an estate which has been subjected to any taxation due on the estate in the UK.

The only minor wrinkle is that any distributed money coming out of income within the estate post death potentially attracts UK income tax (at estate rates). The executor will have dealt with paying such taxation and any such distribution will be an after tax amount and should be accompanied by advice from the executor about the gross amount and UK tax deducted. The gross amount received is income in the hands of your legatee friend and could in theory attract Thai income tax in Thailand. Very unlikely that any Thai tax would arise unless she is already suffering Thai taxation on the margin exceeding the 28% tax that the distribution of post-death income has suffered in the UK.

If she wants to avoid signing the Thai bank papers relating to a receipt of a large amount of foreign-sourced money (not sure of current precise trigger amount of this - within the last 2 years I have needed to do it myself on GBP 50,000, but not on GBP 25,000) she could ask the executor to split the payments.

As a legatee she should expect to receive a full account of the estate's assets and how they have been distributed (but only on final settlement of the estate which may be a year or 2 down the road). I assume as the deceased's wife she is not getting a trivial share so she should look out for this. If not received and requests are ignored then fear the worst and consider action. We all know how some families view "Daddy's dodgy late life with some dodgy Asian bride". No slurs intended by me! If she was my friend I would be asking her what she knew about her hubby's assets
and any intentions he had indicated towards her.

Like Al, I'm not interested in continuing a professional advisory career but happy to relay ad hoc experience to fellow Brits.

Good luck (to her also)!
 

 

There is no heritage tax in Thailand on assets less than 100 million baht – above that it's 5-10 percent – and no tax of foreign savings when not taken into Thailand same year as earned...

 

Quote

The government recently passed the country's first inheritance-tax law. It was published in the Royal Gazette on August 5, so the effective date will be 180 days later on February 1, 2016.

 

The inheritance tax is 5 per cent for ascendants or descendants and 10 per cent for others. It is levied on assets worth above Bt100 million, a loosening of the previously planned threshold of Bt50 million and tax of 10 per cent.

 

The tax is levied on heirs who are either individuals or Thai juristic persons. It is also applied to non-Thai nationals who are resident in Thailand according to the immigration law and non-Thais inheriting assets located in Thailand.

To counter possible avoidance of the new inheritance tax, the gift tax was also introduced by way of amending the types of tax-exempt income in the Thai Revenue Code and will be effective on the same date as the Inheritance Tax Act.

Source: The Nation August 28th 2015, "Kingdom's new inheritance tax and gift tax explained"

 

Quote

Foreign Sourced Income

Similarly, the income is considered foreign when it is derived from the same activities listed above, only taking place outside of Thailand. It will be taxed in Thailand provided the following conditions are met:

An individual is a Thai tax resident

The income is brought to Thailand in the same calendar year it is received

Source: Interactive Associates, "Personal Income Tax on Thai vs. Foreign Income"