Relocating from Thailand to UK with Wife and daughter

[DDBKK]

Hi all!

 

I have a slightly unique situation (although sure it's been covered many times before) that I would like to try and get some feedback from those in the know please?

 

Background:

 

I'm an oil and gas worker on a 28:28 rotation currently residing in Thailand during my time off work but planning on relocating to the UK with my Thai wife of 3 years and our teenage daughter hopefully before schools go back in September 2018 but might be cutting it a bit fine with processing times etc.

 

My Wife has previously had a spouse visa and 2 prior tourist visas for the UK

 

Daughter has never visited but has excellent English skills and is a smart kid - don't foresee any issues with her adapting to UK life/school etc - she is now 15 - 16 next June

 

So the big one first - am I right in understanding that without me being employed within the UK that we are restricted to having to apply for both spouse and dependent visas by possessing the £62,500 for spouse (+ dependent fee) to satisfy the UK immigration rules? 

 

2nd in line but equally as important for me to gain some clarity on - Is it generally acceptable for Thai kids to start at any time of the school year if there are places available for them at the school(s) of choice? This is a confusing topic for me since it's almost impossible to forecast when, exactly the visas will be issued.  I'll be back in the UK next month and plan on contacting said schools but it's nice to hear first hand info from those who have been through the process so I can go in eyes wide open, so to speak.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 17, 2017 by DDBKK

[RichardColeman]

Married 3 years but daughter is 15 ? Well for starters if she is not yours biologically you can add a fair bit to what you need to bring them both to the UK - I'd say about another 10k min. But it is not that simple. If you can scrape that together, you need to show it again in two years time - showing it just once is not enough. You also need it in the bank for 6 months prior to application. So if you do not get work, and have no income and no savings to show again in 2 years, your wife and child will have to go back and the visa would be cancelled and you'd have to start again. I think- that's the way I read it anyhow.

You can contact the school but realistically if you have not had the money in the bank for six months I think the school unlikely to say it OK for 7 or 8 months time since child wont be there potentially for nearly a year. I think any school with open places would take her but not selected ones maybe (12 or 11 plus whatever).

I am a little in the same boat as you, I have a wife and a daughter here. I have no income other than renting out my house in the south east, no mortgage. My plan will be - at 55 when I get a small company pension - to sell the house, move up north and put 100k in the bank for the visa show. having that should be enough, and with the small pension and using small amount only from the 100k if needed, we should have the second show amount required. Obviously by then I and the wife could be working, so it may mute. Good luck anyhow.

Edited October 17, 2017 by RichardColeman

[DDBKK]

Finances aren't an issue. I purely need to understand if it's the most logical route to go down and also to have someone who can comment that has been through the schooling thing before. Hearsay is worthless imo.

 

Cheers

[bobrussell]

It is a requirement that a local authority ensures all resident children receive a suitable education. It is always better to try to get a child to start at the beginning of the school year but this is not always possible.

I would have some concerns regarding the difference in cultures. Both my daughter and niece have been through the system with pretty disastrous results. When they were having difficulties at home the school spent most of its time making them aware of their rights rather than respect the cultural differences or the rights of the family! Rights were more important than responsibilities.

Sadly both went to the same school and have found themselves in a real mess! This is a school considered outstanding by OFSTED.

Another difficulty will be with GCSE's. Unless your daughter has had a broadly similar education type she may struggle.

My advice would be to talk to the most likely school (even if by email). A more multicultural school could be a better bet than the one our girls have been to. So much depends on the type of education your daughter has been getting.

I will not go into the financial side as I am not up on that!

 

[bigyin]

I did the school thing just over 2 years ago and it is not a problem as all children must be provided with a school place. You can make an in year application through the local education authority anytime in the school year although obviously places are limited at particular schools. Their website will have all the details, application form etc I did it all from Thailand and arranged to meet the head when I arrived back in the UK. Good luck.

[7by7]

6 hours ago, DDBKK said:

So the big one first - am I right in understanding that without me being employed within the UK that we are restricted to having to apply for both spouse and dependent visas by possessing the £62,500 for spouse (+ dependent fee) to satisfy the UK immigration rules? 

 If you cannot meet the financial requirement through earned or unearned income, then, yes, you have to do so via cash savings.

 

The income required for an adult and one dependent child is £22,400 p.a.

 

The cash savings required for same is £72,000.

 

Have a read of the financial requirement appendix to see which is the most relevant option for you.

 

You should also read the relevant to you parts of Family visas: apply, extend or switch.

 

However

6 hours ago, DDBKK said:

my Thai wife of 3 years and our teenage daughter

You say 'our teenage daughter.' Are you the father and named on the birth certificate? Are you British not by descent, i.e. born in the UK or a qualifying territory and at least one of your parents is British? 

 

If so, then even though she was born before July 2006 and you were not married at the time, as you have since legitimised (horrible term!) her birth by marrying her mother then she is now British, so you should get a British passport for her and she will not need a visa to live in the UK, not have to pay the NHS surcharge and not be included in the financial requirement.

 

6 hours ago, DDBKK said:

2nd in line but equally as important for me to gain some clarity on - Is it generally acceptable for Thai kids to start at any time of the school year if there are places available for them at the school(s) of choice? This is a confusing topic for me since it's almost impossible to forecast when, exactly the visas will be issued.  I'll be back in the UK next month and plan on contacting said schools but it's nice to hear first hand info from those who have been through the process so I can go in eyes wide open, so to speak.

 Local education authorities have a legal duty to provide a free school place for all children of school age living in their area. Back in February 2001 when my wife and 9 year old step daughter first arrived this was accomplished for her very soon after their arrival; although with the help of an excellent head teacher who took her into the school without, as she put it, 'waiting for the bureaucrats and their red tape!'

 

However, you may have a problem with your daughter's age.

6 hours ago, DDBKK said:

go back in September 2018........Daughter...... is now 15 - 16 next June

Compulsory schooling ends on the last Friday in June in the school year in which the child reaches the age of 16!  She wont be arriving until the 2018/19 school year, but reaches 16 in the 2017/18 one.

 

So, in addition to the problems mentioned by bobrussell, she may not be eligible for a free school place at all!

 

The above applies to England and Wales; but I understand the situation is more or less the same in Northern Ireland and Scotland.

 

You need to talk to the LEA and schools in the area where you will be living for clarification.

[bobrussell]

A child must remain in full time education unless they start an apprenticeship or becomes a trainee or work/volunteer 20 hours or more a week whilst in part-time work (in England).

These may be an option if you consider them suitable for the child.

[DDBKK]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 If you cannot meet the financial requirement through earned or unearned income, then, yes, you have to do so via cash savings.

 

The income required for an adult and one dependent child is £22,400 p.a.

 

The cash savings required for same is £72,000.

 

Have a read of the financial requirement appendix to see which is the most relevant option for you.

 

You should also read the relevant to you parts of Family visas: apply, extend or switch.

 

However

You say 'our teenage daughter.' Are you the father and named on the birth certificate? Are you British not by descent, i.e. born in the UK or a qualifying territory and at least one of your parents is British? 

 

If so, then even though she was born before July 2006 and you were not married at the time, as you have since legitimised (horrible term!) her birth by marrying her mother then she is now British, so you should get a British passport for her and she will not need a visa to live in the UK, not have to pay the NHS surcharge and not be included in the financial requirement.

 

 Local education authorities have a legal duty to provide a free school place for all children of school age living in their area. Back in February 2001 when my wife and 9 year old step daughter first arrived this was accomplished for her very soon after their arrival; although with the help of an excellent head teacher who took her into the school without, as she put it, 'waiting for the bureaucrats and their red tape!'

 

However, you may have a problem with your daughter's age.

Compulsory schooling ends on the last Friday in June in the school year in which the child reaches the age of 16!  She wont be arriving until the 2018/19 school year, but reaches 16 in the 2017/18 one.

 

So, in addition to the problems mentioned by bobrussell, she may not be eligible for a free school place at all!

 

The above applies to England and Wales; but I understand the situation is more or less the same in Northern Ireland and Scotland.

 

You need to talk to the LEA and schools in the area where you will be living for clarification.

Thanks for this post. Very informative. I'll have a read up on the links posted. 

 

I trust in your knowledge regarding the funds so that's now put to bed.

 

When I say "our" daughter I'm inferring biological of which I am not. I've known her since she was 8 and the relationship is now established as such that I am indeed her Dad, although I don't suppose that matters one iota when it comes to the visas. I am a British citizen. 

 

England is the preference for us to live and you have raised a very interesting point regarding the (potential) age limit cut off at 16.

 

I think the next logical step is, as mentioned by another poster, for me to contact a few of the schools in the catchment area and see what's what regarding admission.  

Edited October 17, 2017 by DDBKK

[bobrussell]

If you have been acting father (ie the real 'father' if not biological one) then it is important to demonstrate sole responsibility is held by the mother and you. In effect this means the biological father and/or his family have not had an active say in how the child is brought up. If he has been absent from her life then this must be clearly stated.

Any biological father input can seriously compromise an application as an Entry Clearance Officer may decide the child can remain with him!

Life might have been simpler in some ways if you had not been a British citizen. Had you been a non-British EU citizen you could have moved here with far less fuss under freedom of movement legislation!

 

 

[Mark1972]

My advice would be for you to come back to the UK and get a job for the 6 month requirement. Is it possible for your wife and step-daughter to remain in Thailand for a period ? This way you will not be tight on the financial aspect. It is not just having the amount required in the bank, you need money to live on and l am sure they will bring that up. 

 My daughter came to the UK to live with me 2 years ago. She had little or no English as we had spent considerable time apart. It took me 3 weeks to get her into school and l doubt you will have any problems. As others have eluded to in their reply's, you are entitled to a school place if one is available. They can start mid-term, makes no difference here. My daughter speaks excellent English now, she was 11 when she arrived, so not young. Don't let the language barrier bother you, l worried myself sick over this, but was totally unnecessary, children cope better than adults. 

 One thing l will say to you mate, is are you sure that returning to the UK is your best option ? Brexit is already having consequences, the pound has significantly dropped in value and if we have a hard brexit will probably lose a further 25%. The prices of food, clothes and petrol have all risen and will continue to do so. l voted for Brexit, but none of us no what will happen. If you have work in Asia and decent money, l would stay, but that is matter for you to decide. 

[steve187]

2 hours ago, Mark1972 said:

Brexit is already having consequences, the pound has significantly dropped in value and if we have a hard brexit will probably lose a further 25%.The prices of food, clothes and petrol have all risen and will continue to do so

not sure where you get that figure from, but anyway the op works off shore so any money changing will be in his favour.

 

Things are going up everywhere not just the UK. i think the most important thing will be the schooling, and how the daughter settles in.

[DDBKK]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

not sure where you get that figure from, but anyway the op works off shore so any money changing will be in his favour.

 

Things are going up everywhere not just the UK. i think the most important thing will be the schooling, and how the daughter settles in.

This in a nutshell!

 

The pro's at this stage in the game by far outweigh the con's of relocating for the 5 years to get citizenship for my wife and daughter. We have an established base in Bangkok that will be visited each year for at least a month and will remain available for us to move back to if our daughter doesn't settle in the UK.

 

The only downside with having two places to live is the expense of having to kit them both out with furnishings and white goods, etc but the upside is you get the best that both country has to offer.

 

Thanks again for all the productive replies folks. much appreciated. 

[steve187]

DDBKK   where you thinking of going in the UK

[DDBKK]

Brighton most likely. Some of the best weather the UK has to offer, good schools a plenty, decent culture/lots going on - and most importantly..... plenty of Asian market food places to ensure morale is kept at an optimum level for the girls....

[xylophone]

2 minutes ago, DDBKK said:

Brighton most likely. Some of the best weather the UK has to offer, good schools a plenty, decent culture/lots going on - and most importantly..... plenty of Asian market food places to ensure morale is kept at an optimum level for the girls....

Always liked Brighton and its surrounds and as I was born in nearby Horsham, I made full use of Brighton's restaurants and facilities (even playing football at Brighton's old ground, the Goldstone ground on a few occasions!).

 

Easy to get out of the town and explore some of the lovely countryside nearby and there are some lovely walks around the South Downs.

 

Good luck with your move and I hope everything works out for you and your family.

[bobrussell]

Generally the moderation on this part of the forum is more robust than other areas but ignorant fools do still occasionally slip through the net! We live in a world where second or even third families are not unusual therefore step-children feature regularly. 

 

Let us know how you get on, this is a subject that affects quite a few here and your experiences may help others!

[Mark1972]

On 18/10/2017 at 2:31 AM, steve187 said:

not sure where you get that figure from, but anyway the op works off shore so any money changing will be in his favour.

 

Things are going up everywhere not just the UK. i think the most important thing will be the schooling, and how the daughter settles in.

This is the figure being bounded around by the financial experts in the city. Because of my disabilities, l am severely limited in a working capacity, so l started a trading account last year. l made 18k in 6 months, by no means alot of money to some, but to me is significant. l pay attention to everything in the markets and politics and l think the figure of 25% is their theoretical maximum, but l personally believe it could fall further with a hard brexit. Luckily for me, l do not have substantial savings, but if l did, l would be putting it into dollars in the next year. 

  Sorry if l misunderstood, if the chap carries on working offshore he should be fine, l thought he was planning on working here in the UK. l totally agree with you, prices have gone up everywhere, l was shocked on a trip to Phuket last year, but it won't stop me coming back. Us Brits love to bash England, but l do not mind it where l live. My main reasons for coming back to live in Thailand when my daughter finishes school are health related, chronic arthritis in both knees and back.  

[Mark1972]

On 18/10/2017 at 4:07 AM, DDBKK said:

This in a nutshell!

 

The pro's at this stage in the game by far outweigh the con's of relocating for the 5 years to get citizenship for my wife and daughter. We have an established base in Bangkok that will be visited each year for at least a month and will remain available for us to move back to if our daughter doesn't settle in the UK.

 

The only downside with having two places to live is the expense of having to kit them both out with furnishings and white goods, etc but the upside is you get the best that both country has to offer.

 

Thanks again for all the productive replies folks. much appreciated. 

Sounds like you have your head screwed on covering all the bases, l wish you the best of luck in your new start. 

[theoldgit]

Off topic post, and responses, removed.

[greenchair]

If your daughter has good grades in a good mid range thai school, do you think it is fair to turn her life upside down and put her in an English school with a very uncertain future. You have been with this family only 3 years, so in the event things went pear shaped, this girl would have to pack up and ship back to thailand. Her Thai education would be impossible to pick back up on and she would end up in a crap vocational school. At 15 that means she will just be finishing Mathayom 3 and prepare to enter Mathayom 4. There are just 3 years left of her high school. Please reconsider and think carefully whether you are in fact going to ruin her final years of high school, in your misguided belief that putting her in an English school will be better education because she will speak English. 

She can enter an English university. but after you take her out of the Thai M1 to m6 system, it is extremely difficult or even impossible to come back. 

Think carefully about what you are about to do! !!!!

[bobrussell]

The points made are quite valid for consideration but if circumstances mean that a move to the UK is a requirement then remaining may not be an option.

After the daughter reaches 18 it will be very difficult for her to settle in the UK. University fees would also be at the international student rate and there will be little or no chance of student loans etc.

It is not an ideal time to make the move but there should be opportunities to make up ground with hard work. A bilingual youngster is likely to have numerous options open to him or her.

Only the OP can really decide what is best and this has to be a family decision. 

I am not overly happy with the UK education system but there is support available for those with English as a second language.

[greenchair]

12 hours ago, bobrussell said:

The points made are quite valid for consideration but if circumstances mean that a move to the UK is a requirement then remaining may not be an option.

After the daughter reaches 18 it will be very difficult for her to settle in the UK. University fees would also be at the international student rate and there will be little or no chance of student loans etc.

It is not an ideal time to make the move but there should be opportunities to make up ground with hard work. A bilingual youngster is likely to have numerous options open to him or her.

Only the OP can really decide what is best and this has to be a family decision. 

I am not overly happy with the UK education system but there is support available for those with English as a second language.

Correct me if I am wrong, she would need to be in England for 5 years to aquire citizenship, so she would not have reached that time ready for university. So he will still have to pay international fees. 

I have a Thai adopted since birth son. whenever I made choices for him, my first consideration is, what would happen to him if I died?

Would my thai partner be able to keep him in an international school without my income? 

Could my partner afford a big mansion without my income? 

Would my thai family cope in a foreign country without me? 

If the answer was no then I never put them in that position. That's why I took my son out of international school and into a good thai school. imagine if I died and he had suddenly go to a Thai school with no friends. I remember the lovely couple that took a handicapped boy away from his grandparents to give him "better care" and " better opportunities ".

After 3 years they were ready to move on and tried to dump the child back at grands. But grands said no. The boy ended up in an institution. 

This girl should finish her last 3 years of high school. Unless her grades are extremely low in which case English language is her only hope. 

[bobrussell]

Interesting point regarding 'settled' or not on a visa. Not an expert so cannot comment beyond some universities offer home rates in this situation. 

A very complicated situation and no obvious easy answer but if there is nobody in Thailand that can care for the child then she has to accompany her mother.

Stating what should or should not happen is not really up to us. If they have to move then everyone has to deal with it. 

If a UK spouse dies during a period covered by a settlement visa then the surviving non-EU spouse and children will be eligible for discretionary leave to remain and this is pretty much automatic.

The OP asked for advice on visas etc, not how to run their life. 

[MaeJoMTB]

8 hours ago, greenchair said:

Correct me if I am wrong, she would need to be in England for 5 years to aquire citizenship, so she would not have reached that time ready for university. So he will still have to pay international fees. 

Gotta be resident in England for 5 years, citizenship not relevant to university fees.

But, nothing to say kid has to go to university at age 18, gap year or two perfectly acceptable.

[MaeJoMTB]

On 11/2/2017 at 8:42 AM, greenchair said:

after you take her out of the Thai M1 to m6 system, it is extremely difficult or even impossible to come back. 

 

Absolutely wrong,

You can attend Thai high school at any age free of charge. Every Amphur office runs Sunday high school, any Thai of any age can attend at no charge. They do it in 2 year blocks, first 2 years diploma, 2nd 2 years high school diploma. My wife left school originally at age 12, finally completed high school age 30, then straight on to University. No problem at all. (Now she has dropped out of university after 2 years, can return at any time in the next 8 years). Thailand is very flexible on schooling as the general population is often too poor to complete a course in a single stretch, the drop out, save some money, then continue.

Edited November 3, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Absolutely wrong,

You can attend Thai high school at any age free of charge. Every Amphur office runs Sunday high school, any Thai of any age can attend at no charge. They do it in 2 year blocks, first 2 years diploma, 2nd 2 years high school diploma. My wife left school originally at age 12, finally completed high school age 30, then straight on to University. No problem at all. (Now she has dropped out of university after 2 years, can return at any time in the next 8 years). Thailand is very flexible on schooling as the general population is often too poor to complete a course in a single stretch, the drop out, save some money, then continue.

Well yes if she wants a degree in tourism. I did specifically point out if her grades were good and she is able to enter one of the better high schools. If her grades are low then go for it. Of course if she returned she could go to one of the horendous vocational schools. 

But the good government schools have their m4 tests that are extremely competitive to get into. 

After those classes are full nobody can get in. Like I said depends on her grades. 

[bobrussell]

None of which is helpful to the original poster who asked for advice on moving a child to the UK.

With a suitable visa schooling in the UK is possible and with creative thinking university is also possible.

[torrzent]

On 10/17/2017 at 7:43 PM, bobrussell said:

A child must remain in full time education unless they start an apprenticeship or becomes a trainee or work/volunteer 20 hours or more a week whilst in part-time work (in England).

These may be an option if you consider them suitable for the child.

Is home schooling an option?

[DDBKK]

On 02/11/2017 at 8:42 AM, greenchair said:

If your daughter has good grades in a good mid range thai school, do you think it is fair to turn her life upside down and put her in an English school with a very uncertain future. You have been with this family only 3 years, so in the event things went pear shaped, this girl would have to pack up and ship back to thailand. Her Thai education would be impossible to pick back up on and she would end up in a crap vocational school. At 15 that means she will just be finishing Mathayom 3 and prepare to enter Mathayom 4. There are just 3 years left of her high school. Please reconsider and think carefully whether you are in fact going to ruin her final years of high school, in your misguided belief that putting her in an English school will be better education because she will speak English. 

She can enter an English university. but after you take her out of the Thai M1 to m6 system, it is extremely difficult or even impossible to come back. 

Think carefully about what you are about to do! !!!!

That's quite the random tangent you've gone off on there! !!!!

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, DDBKK said:

That's quite the random tangent you've gone off on there! !!!!

Being able to speak English is not the be all and end all of a good education. It was not a random tangent, totally on topic about this person intention of uprooting this lady halfway through highschool and hoping she picks up quickly in a foreign country that she can barely speak the language. I am sure the poster will welcome some food for thought.