Airplane noise. Low flying?

[Dogbarker]

You are correct in saying that Sansai is experiencing more noise than about 2 years ago from aircraft. Much of this is at night from when the flight times were expanded at CNX.( I lived here from before that time when it was quiet ) Now  some of the larger planes heading back to china and korea make the grunt turn towards the  the mountains and you wonder if they are going to make it .. usually all over by 1 am though so you can relax to the dog barking sounds......  it is still less noise than can be heard over Niman / Hang dong areas  when i was house hunting. Recently there are private low flying helicopters flying low over sansai .. following the 121 route ... they are a real pain ... 

Happy Days ... In the Uk I have a house really quiet away from all airports in the countryside ... until the MOD bombing range is  used as target practice.. sansai planes are quiet by comparison .. haha

[1FinickyOne]

Well, I can't answer your questions, but just wanted to say thanks as I have considered getting a place in CM... it is difficult to imagine plane noise as far away as Sansai.. I would be curious how often that happens that far out. I have friends in that area and never heard them complain... 

 

But, I trust the validity - - you must surely be observant if you can be Enlightened At heist... others need years of meditation, but one robbery and you are there.. nirvana...but for the airplane noise. 

[lordblackader]

You know - at this point I think old bitter farangs complaining have jumped the shark. I mean seriously - you live under the flight path and you complain about the aircraft noise? 

 

Here's an idea - Chiang Mai is spread out over a huge area, why don't you move somewhere else?

No wonder that some Thai's don't like farangs. 

[Autonuaq]

Presume the airport was there al ready when you arrived for the first time.

Probably is,the change by airplane.

Be happy the plane make a lot less noise mow a days.

 

If you not like move on Thailand is huge. 

[DrPhibes]

I'm on the second ring road, not far from Mee Chock Plaza and ya, the aircraft noise in the last year has increased significantly.  For me, the jets do a tighter turn now after take off and are in full throttle in a turn right overhead.  I love where I live but, when my lease expires, I'm moving. 

[sammieuk1]

I live on the final 1km approach from touch down in Chiang Mai every landing passes 2 houses down from me been here 3 years and never notice them and have never seen a passenger yet alone a waiving one.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

Sorry! Went out to eat ... 

 

I thank you all who understood the initial message and answered the questions. I don't think it was written in Chinese.

 

I apologize for using a literary device (hyperbole) in the OP, but it looks like a few people took it literally. I must admit that the one about seeing the passengers' nostrils might have been more obvious. In any case, those who are skeptics about the idea that planes are flying quite low quite a ways from the airport, there are a few posters who are agreeing (presumably because they are living in the area). As others have pointed out, there is the increase in Chinese traffic too, but the flights that I was alluding to are on the BKK route.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by EnlightenedAtheist

[EnlightenedAtheist]

4 hours ago, Pilotman said:

OP,   ICAO have tasked all governments  with gradually introducing GPS based approaches to all  ICAO registered airports in the world. Most of Europe, the UK and US are the first to do this, but all ICAO registered countries are mandated to do it by I think 2019.  It has caused some issues in the UK of which I am aware.  As a GPS based approach is far more accurate than VOR,  or radar control from the ground, and does not have the innate flexibly of other methods of approach, aircraft will always follow the same path to within metres.  Naturally this does not go down well with the people who live on the ground as they get the monotony of aircraft covering the same ground at the same height, for each approach. Lots of google info on this.  Not sure if that is the reason here, but it could be one explanation. 

Thank you.

 

I guess with a name like that, I should trust what you are saying and, from the length and the detail of your message, I do). Thanks.

 

Like you said, the GPS has its pluses, but not if the planes are flying over your house everyday, especially if this is the BKK route.

 

Incidentally, does the idea that in Thailand the low cost airlines are trying to save money by ascending and descending slowly has any merit? Some mentioned that it is cheaper to fly at a high altitude. I would think that flying against winds might be more important, but I should let you, the expert, explain.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

10 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

I live on the final 1km approach from touch down in Chiang Mai every landing passes 2 houses down from me been here 3 years and never notice them and have never seen a passenger yet alone a waiving one.

Yes, but the OP talks about a different location (10 kms away), so ... your anecdote --while interesting-- does not confirm or contradict mine.

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.   If you have nothing to say, then say nothing.   Move on.  

[captainsteve]

Chiang Mai Runway 36 has an ILS and 18 and 36 both have R Nav approaches and the difference in flight path is negligible.

 

I think the problem is two fold. Firstly as mention by others there are far more flights , particularly from China , Korea and soon Qatar so the overall noise is worse. Also some of these planes are heavier with fuel due to the longer flights, and therefore don't climb as quickly , so again more noise for those of us on the ground.

 

Sadly  it's probably going to get worse rather than better so chose where you move to carefully. ?

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Thanks for the feedback.

 

This is not about me or where I live. It is about people living in an area from the airport all the way to Sansai who must be bothered. 

 

I ask specific questions in the OP. While it is true that they cannot move airports, maybe they can improve the landing and taking off angles. The question is about whether or not there are "regulations" or not in the West. I suppose, if push come to shove some people might try putting pressure on the politicians if they want to be re-elected that is (of course, promises before the elections might not come to anything, ... we know the routine, but sometimes sh*t hits the fan and someone does something.

If the aircraft were forced to take more circuitous routes or climb faster we would then annoy the tree huggers. You have to appreciate we live in a society where people do as they wish without due consideration to others. The neighbour whose dogs bark 24/7, who also leans on his horn until someone opens the gate. The street party in front of your gate with 5am music and your garden becoming a toilet! etc etc. The only solution may be to move away from town or back home.

[Sir Swagman]

Historically it has been of great assistance to both pilots and passengers to have an aircraft close to the ground on landing. Now, as for a low approach....most Asian pilots I flew with would follow any Air Traffic Control (ATC) instruction to descend immediately and at a normal rate. No thought given to where they should be vertically in the descent/approach phase, resulting often in long drawn out low level segments of an arrival. These days most aircraft have a vertical navigation function (VNAV) that will tell when top of descent is and how high or low an aircraft is on profile during that descent. Provided of course all restrictions such as height at a certain point or speed at a certain height and forecast winds are entered correctly. From the many trips I have taken into CNX as a passenger on aircraft so equippped, it would seem this is beyond the drivers capability. Use of speed brake, then thrust, then speed brake, early and relatively high speed gear extension, all to 'correct for', or follow, what might be an erroneous electronic profile. Spatial awareness isn't a high point obviously.

As to departures, there is a standard departure climb procedure after takeoff that is always mandated in a high density area, this may be further restricted if rising terrain is a factor. Not all airlines follow what should be done, monitoring and reporting of breaches is a ground based responsibility. Certainly here where self-reporting a breach is not the done thing. More international departures mean aircraft depart at higher take off weights which will generally mean the height mandated to make a right turn, when departing in your direction, will be further from the point of departure, possibly accounting for your noticing aircraft flying lower near you. Otherwise, you are perfectly correct when you state you know little about this subject. I hope this helps.

[claynlr]

You could always pray about your problem Enlightened....

[The Fat Controller]

Some incredible <deleted> in this thread.

The aviation ideal for economical operation is continuous climb and descent, with arrival and departure routes never having to cross, all of which are impossible.

If you are really interested in the way it all works, search for SID, STAR, RNAV Routes, 3 degree glide path and stable approach criteria.

[owl sees all]

42 minutes ago, The Fat Controller said:

Some incredible <deleted> in this thread.

The aviation ideal for economical operation is continuous climb and descent, with arrival and departure routes never having to cross, all of which are impossible.

If you are really interested in the way it all works, search for SID, STAR, RNAV Routes, 3 degree glide path and stable approach criteria.

Or!!! Just keep reading TVForum posts. Same info' in the end.

[Pilotman]

10 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Thank you.

 

I guess with a name like that, I should trust what you are saying and, from the length and the detail of your message, I do). Thanks.

 

Like you said, the GPS has its pluses, but not if the planes are flying over your house everyday, especially if this is the BKK route.

 

Incidentally, does the idea that in Thailand the low cost airlines are trying to save money by ascending and descending slowly has any merit? Some mentioned that it is cheaper to fly at a high altitude. I would think that flying against winds might be more important, but I should let you, the expert, explain.

Aircraft adopt a 'cruise decent' if at all possible and if at all possible, maintain it until near touchdown.  The thrust leavers are set at idle and the aircraft slowly descends. That's the most fuel efficient way to operate.  If you try to fly low and slow it will cost fuel.   Pilots dont like to level off unless instructed to do so by ATC.   You may recall the BA crash at LHR some years back.  A B777 lost all thrust on short finals and crashed on the runway threshold.  He had been in a cruise decent for many minutes and  from high level and the fuel filters had blocked with ice. Good job he was not asked to level off  over London as it could have been much worse.  

[bazza73]

I'm somewhat puzzled by the OP's request for help. What kind of help does he want? If it's information about flight paths and flight levels into CM, the local control tower could probably supply that. But how would that be useful to him? The aviation authorities are not going to change their procedures for one person.

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

Aircraft adopt a 'cruise decent' if at all possible and if at all possible, maintain it until near touchdown.  The thrust leavers are set at idle and the aircraft slowly descends. That's the most fuel efficient way to operate.  If you try to fly low and slow it will cost fuel. 

Yes!! It is by ultilising Bernoulli's theorem that make this possible.

 

When you look out of the 'plane window and see the flaps, flapping (so to speak) they are ballancing 'lift' to allow decent.

 

Great stuff PilotMan. 

Edited October 31, 2017 by owl sees all

[EnlightenedAtheist]

15 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Could be a religous slant to this. But no!! Enlightened Athiest!!

 

Just concern for the Thai people; like me.

I am concerned about Thai people being exploited by others as much as I am concerned by some of my kind exploiting others. Plane noise at 12 a.m. and 6 a.m., when we know how important sleep is for humans and health, concerns me as much as pollution levels above the 100 mark. Noise is also a pollution. We all know how some people behave when they are deprived of sleep.

 

As to my name exposing my "non-religion" whenever I post, I chose it because we do not have the marketing power that temples, churches, mosques (and all of the other symbols, acts --auditory and visual-- use to proselytize their convictions. My name is a pale reminder that we exist. I hope this is not viewed as a violent crusade against the holders of the truth. I say "non-religion" because some people can get visas to "study their religion" * (I doubt atheists can) and, in general, start organizations (that have tax-free status) in the name of religion, etc. That I chose to put enlightened as a qualifier is to challenge the so-called holder of the truth's and of the enlightenment's thesis that they are the only one who are.

 

* to perform missionary work or other religious activities with the concurrence of the Thai Ministries or Government Departments concerned (Category "R") and 

to study, to come on a work study tour or observation tour , to participate in projects or seminars , to attend a conference or training course , to study as a foreign Buddhist monk (Category "ED")

[owl sees all]

2 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

<snip>

As to my name exposing my "non-religion" whenever I post, I chose it because we do not have the marketing power that temples, churches, mosques (and all of the other symbols, acts --auditory and visual-- use to proselytize their convictions. My name is a pale reminder that we exist.

<snip>

Enlightened Atheist (EA). I applaud you. You walk it as you talk it. I agree with everything you say. Not only that but Atheists are far more truthful.

 

I am a Dawinian or Darwinist; and proud of it.

 

Carry on the good work EA. More interesting topics please.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

I'm somewhat puzzled by the OP's request for help. What kind of help does he want? If it's information about flight paths and flight levels into CM, the local control tower could probably supply that. But how would that be useful to him? The aviation authorities are not going to change their procedures for one person.

So, you are "puzzled" by my request for help [sic(k)].

 

I did not ask for "help". It seems many construed my OP as seeking "help". I wanted to know more about the subject so I can explore the issue or not.

 

TO ALL: While I appreciate the many comments answering the questions, I did not appreciate:

 

1. the egomaniacal types, in general, (usually cheap one-liners that are in keeping with the shallowness and their desire to boost their self-esteem at the expense of others (read below),
2. especially if you factor in #3, 4.)
3. the ones that remarked that I should have foreseen and extrapolated:
   • the making of the movie that would be one of the catalysts that has made CM a popular destination for Chinese, 
   • the multiple coups that would come about after I visited CM, which was a democracy at the time, and a general (pun intended) worsening of the situation,
   • the heavy floods in BKK that would be the catalysts for some of the population there to buy real estate to relocate when the going gets tough and wet,
   • the notion that airplanes, even 10 km away, are still noisy,
   • that flights' routes are highly variable,
   • that there are little checks and balances, concerns when it comes to flight angles and routes,
   • that GPS will/should be a newer way for establishing routes in the future (and know whether or not this will be adhered to in Thailand),
   • ...
4. the ones that remarked that I should:
   • relocate, which would be a great advice IF I did not have a wife, children, bought property here, etc. Some of it being true, which make the advice a pretty dumb one, in hindsight, don't you think. This was a common advice. (Some people fight and some people don't. Of course, some will say this is a quixotic fight. It is. It looks like it is at this juncture. Some people choose to fight the easy fights and some the quixotic fights because sometimes they morph into regular fights: slavery, women's equality, nationalisation and decolonisation, equality, liberty, ... But, why are you acting like a dictatorship? I thought you don't like dictators?)
   • relocate in town away from the routes, which on paper would make sense (even though that was not the main driver for the question. This would be like a smart advice, but as others have pointed out airplane noise in Thailand is the least of your worries. Hints: dogs' barking, temples, chicken, pigs being killed at 6 a.m., deaf neighbours living outside with a TV continuously working, partying/shouting/fighting by other neighbours, frog calls, 
   • I am --of course-- so extremely unreasonable that I would complain about these happening 24/7! That's quite a supposition, but the worst type make YOU a smarter person at all OP's expenses (you are next, unless you never ask any question because you know it all.  
   • not complain, but deploring the idea that idea is a dictatorship. (Is that dictatorship of the masses or the dictatorship affecting all of the sane people?)
   • phone the local control tower. (Really?) And then state, in the same advice, that this is futile advice since "the aviation authorities are not going to change their procedures for one person". DUH! Have you heard about petition, democracy lately? Google it. It is an interesting concept! Elections are coming. And don't tell me it is futile here so you can justify your beer drinking and self-centered lifestyle.
   • not complain because it was my own choice to move under the flight of the plane (which is a dumb statement if you read some of the items in #3, and ADD, that living in Saraphi or Doi Saket does not suit my lifestyle. But, you know, if you re-read the OP, my intentions are less personal as I figured hundreds of thousands of people are also affected. I guess they could also move. Is that your advice. I guess they/we could put up with it. Well! Duh!
   • move away from the airport, when the OP clearly state that I am complaining about the noise 10 kms away!
   • Buy a jack-hammer and move the airport (Sorry! I made that one up! The jackhammer idea, that is!),
   • seek a shrink because HE has never heard one airplane where he lives (which his near the airport, which is not the question),
   • pray (since I am an enlightened ... atheist).
5. the ones that remarked that I should not:
   • seek help! I will infer that this is the personal type of help. Please, read my username: I am "enlightened"! (There is another word that follows. You have to contextualize.) Second, read the OP. I am not seeking help as much as I am seeking information.

 

Thanks for the advice, but there were many that were of the wrong types, that were off-topic and off course (if you get the pun), of course.

[portroyal]

Air control staff k’now that they have to order to the plane

Do you suggest they have to modify angle descent for your convenience ? In what world do you think you live ?

[CNXBKKMAN]

Three flights last night between midnight and 6am, all A320's and all departing to China. They will have been at 6000 to 10000 feet over Maejo same as always. Chiang Mai is only airport with night flights in the whole of northern Thailand above Don Muang. Hundreds of thousands of square kilometres and to find yourself 10km from that one airport is it just bad luck? 

    Why do some many people move to Chiang Mai with it's convenient airport and cheap flights (and associated noise) but dont want to live in places like Nan, Phrae, Fang, Nakhon Sawan, etc which have almost no aircraft noise? 

[EnlightenedAtheist]

3 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Enlightened Atheist (EA). I applaud you. You walk it as you talk it. I agree with everything you say. Not only that but Atheists are far more truthful.

 

I am a Dawinian or Darwinist; and proud of it.

 

Carry on the good work EA. More interesting topics please.

 

A Darwinist? :) 

 

And a bald eagle as well! :) 

 

Wow!

 

Superlatives fail me!

 

So, you have decided to answer questions on this very topic, but are now judging it to be not at your just and right level of enlightenment? :) 

 

Like what? Ah! Yes! Like a topic asking people to comment on football?

 

Impressive!

 

That's an interesting topic!

 

Trying to spare hundreds of thousands of people the annoyance of noise (which is a health hazard) or commenting on football! 

 

I am impressed by your self-endowed (high, of course) prowess! Go for gold! Go for the first post on the 1700th page!

 

GULP!

 

That would be a great accomplishment (but don't forget to belittle others' topics [one-liners will do] and answer the wrong questions on topics,... that --of course-- are trivial, but that you follow! Like Scottiejohn, your friend!

 

GULP!

 

You are so smart or so YOU think!

Edited October 31, 2017 by EnlightenedAtheist

[owl sees all]

2 minutes ago, CNXBKKMAN said:

Three flights last night between midnight and 6am, all A320's and all departing to China.

 

<snip>

 

    Why do some many people move to Chiang Mai with it's convenient airport and cheap flights (and associated noise) but dont want to live in places like Nan, Phrae, Fang, Nakhon Sawan, etc which have almost no aircraft noise? 

Up here near the Mekong the only planes are very high up so I can't really comment like you guys. But why does any little airport have to do night flights? Inconveniences so many people; including the passengers.

.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Just now, owl sees all said:

Up here near the Mekong the only planes are very high up so I can't really comment like you guys. But why does any little airport have to do night flights? Inconveniences so many people; including the passengers.

.

Those night flights are tourist flights. During the day time the same aircraft may operate flights with a mix of passengers including people doing business trips and non tourist stuff. Its extra revenue for the airline to do holiday flights at 02:00 plus the chinese tourists get a good deal and cheap holiday package. Its the same in the UK cheap holiday flights to Spain , Greece and Turkey in the middle of the night. 

[owl sees all]

37 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Like Scottiejohn, your friend!

Hold on the EA. Take a deep breath. I am am of the same persuasion (religiously) as your good self. 

 

As for Scottiejohn; he is a cradle of knowledge, wit and humour unlike many on TVForum (not you and me of course). Although he doesn't need me to speak for him one little bit.

 

Have a glass of single malt whiskey; and chill!!

 

And I have just noticed that the little pic' under your pseudonym is indeed Charles Darwin. Respect bro!!!

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by owl sees all
added emotion

[bazza73]

1 hour ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

So, you are "puzzled" by my request for help [sic(k)].

 

I did not ask for "help". It seems many construed my OP as seeking "help". I wanted to know more about the subject so I can explore the issue or not.

 

TO ALL: While I appreciate the many comments answering the questions, I did not appreciate:

 

1. the egomaniacal types, in general, (usually cheap one-liners that are in keeping with the shallowness and their desire to boost their self-esteem at the expense of others (read below),
2. especially if you factor in #3, 4.)
3. the ones that remarked that I should have foreseen and extrapolated:
   • the making of the movie that would be one of the catalysts that has made CM a popular destination for Chinese, 
   • the multiple coups that would come about after I visited CM, which was a democracy at the time, and a general (pun intended) worsening of the situation,
   • the heavy floods in BKK that would be the catalysts for some of the population there to buy real estate to relocate when the going gets tough and wet,
   • the notion that airplanes, even 10 km away, are still noisy,
   • that flights' routes are highly variable,
   • that there are little checks and balances, concerns when it comes to flight angles and routes,
   • that GPS will/should be a newer way for establishing routes in the future (and know whether or not this will be adhered to in Thailand),
   • ...
4. the ones that remarked that I should:
   • relocate, which would be a great advice IF I did not have a wife, children, bought property here, etc. Some of it being true, which make the advice a pretty dumb one, in hindsight, don't you think. This was a common advice. (Some people fight and some people don't. Of course, some will say this is a quixotic fight. It is. It looks like it is at this juncture. Some people choose to fight the easy fights and some the quixotic fights because sometimes they morph into regular fights: slavery, women's equality, nationalisation and decolonisation, equality, liberty, ... But, why are you acting like a dictatorship? I thought you don't like dictators?)
   • relocate in town away from the routes, which on paper would make sense (even though that was not the main driver for the question. This would be like a smart advice, but as others have pointed out airplane noise in Thailand is the least of your worries. Hints: dogs' barking, temples, chicken, pigs being killed at 6 a.m., deaf neighbours living outside with a TV continuously working, partying/shouting/fighting by other neighbours, frog calls, 
   • I am --of course-- so extremely unreasonable that I would complain about these happening 24/7! That's quite a supposition, but the worst type make YOU a smarter person at all OP's expenses (you are next, unless you never ask any question because you know it all.  
   • not complain, but deploring the idea that idea is a dictatorship. (Is that dictatorship of the masses or the dictatorship affecting all of the sane people?)
   • phone the local control tower. (Really?) And then state, in the same advice, that this is futile advice since "the aviation authorities are not going to change their procedures for one person". DUH! Have you heard about petition, democracy lately? Google it. It is an interesting concept! Elections are coming. And don't tell me it is futile here so you can justify your beer drinking and self-centered lifestyle.
   • not complain because it was my own choice to move under the flight of the plane (which is a dumb statement if you read some of the items in #3, and ADD, that living in Saraphi or Doi Saket does not suit my lifestyle. But, you know, if you re-read the OP, my intentions are less personal as I figured hundreds of thousands of people are also affected. I guess they could also move. Is that your advice. I guess they/we could put up with it. Well! Duh!
   • move away from the airport, when the OP clearly state that I am complaining about the noise 10 kms away!
   • Buy a jack-hammer and move the airport (Sorry! I made that one up! The jackhammer idea, that is!),
   • seek a shrink because HE has never heard one airplane where he lives (which his near the airport, which is not the question),
   • pray (since I am an enlightened ... atheist).
5. the ones that remarked that I should not:
   • seek help! I will infer that this is the personal type of help. Please, read my username: I am "enlightened"! (There is another word that follows. You have to contextualize.) Second, read the OP. I am not seeking help as much as I am seeking information.

 

Thanks for the advice, but there were many that were of the wrong types, that were off-topic and off course (if you get the pun), of course.

You did put the word Help! in your original post.

You are a farang. You don't even have a vote in Thailand. How are you going to bring democratic change when it is none of your business.

Having wasted my time reading my way through your self-centred monologues, yes you may well be an atheist.

Enlightened is not the adjective i would use for you.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic/baiting posts and replies have been removed