BMW sudden move from 20000kms to 10000kms oil change, who really trusted them ?

[dpdp]

Hello,

 

When buying a second hand BMW, be careful, in the past they were changing oil every 20000 or 25000 kms (because it's free for customer), which is of course not enough, even with the best synthetic oil.

Suddenly they changed to 10000 kms without telling why, and the truth is that they found premature engine problems that they expected to arise after the guarantee ended.

https://blog.modbargains.com/15000-mile-oil-change-myth/

 

Benz has always changed oil every 10000 kms because customer pay for it, and even with the best synthetic oil, 10000 kms is the maximum for any engine, especially powerful ones as in German cars.

 

So be careful if you buy an older BMW, many have problems after 100000 kms because of the bad free maintenance "offered" by BMW.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

Moved to motoring forum

[transam]

Anyone who leaves oil in a ride for 25000k is daft...

[dpdp]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Anyone who leaves oil in a ride for 25000k is daft...

 

This is what BMW was doing for years.

 

 

[speedtripler]

9 hours ago, transam said:

Anyone who leaves oil in a ride for 25000k is daft...

I know a guy with bike who hasn't changed the oil once... Ever 

Around 70,000km now I think and he don't give aF... (I told him I'll do it for you if you pay for the oil, he said, Don't worry, it's OK! ) 

 

Be careful what you buy 2nd hand in Thailand 

 

[jackdd]

At least in Germany Benz recommends every 15000km, not 10000 

New cars show you when to change the oil, and this can be up to 30000km, so i somehow doubt that 20000km is such a big problem as written in this article (And actually the article says that they lowered it from 15k miles to 10k miles, so about 24k km to 16k km, not 10k km as op said)

Reminds me a bit of Vietnamese people thinking that in a motorbike you have to change the oil every 1000km (I didn't forget a 0)

[JAS21]

There was an interesting thread in bimmerfest back in 2010 saying basically that on some series of BMW's they calculated oil change interval on mpg ... ie how much your mpg differed from 'their norm' ...google ... Interesting Oil Life Calculation by BMW or something like that.... back in 2007 I remember that my 'thai Thai BMW dealer'  reset next service to 30K kms on our 520d ...

[dpdp]

Anyway, people buying German cars in Asia must be stupid if not changing oil every 10000 kms.

Of course, many don't care because they will change the car when the guarantee ends, but this is why I do not buy second hand crap to save few $$$. People who do not have enough money should drive a Toyota, then no need to change oil at all ! 5555

[Woodsie888]

6 hours ago, JAS21 said:

There was an interesting thread in bimmerfest back in 2010 saying basically that on some series of BMW's they calculated oil change interval on mpg ... ie how much your mpg differed from 'their norm' ...google ... Interesting Oil Life Calculation by BMW or something like that.... back in 2007 I remember that my 'thai Thai BMW dealer'  reset next service to 30K kms on our 520d ...

Jas, I think what you're referring to is BMW's CBS (Condition Based Service) where various parameters are measured continuously by the car which then informs you via iDrive approximately 4 weeks in advance of a need for Service. If the car does very low annual mileage or a lot of short running the KM intervals are substantially shorter than a car that does plenty of mileage. Of course the system won't let you pass 12 months without informing you a service is due even if the car hasn't been used. 

[JAS21]

1 hour ago, Woodsie888 said:

Jas, I think what you're referring to is BMW's CBS (Condition Based Service) where various parameters are measured continuously by the car which then informs you via iDrive approximately 4 weeks in advance of a need for Service. If the car does very low annual mileage or a lot of short running the KM intervals are substantially shorter than a car that does plenty of mileage. Of course the system won't let you pass 12 months without informing you a service is due even if the car hasn't been used. 

Maybe BMW, over the years, have employed more than one system to determine oil chsnge intervals ☺

 

 NOW if you can tell me 'how it works' on MrsJ's 10th Gen. Civic RS I would be very interested ...thanks

[jerojero]

 
This is what BMW was doing for years.
 
 

And BMW claims or at least previously claimed transmission oil is "lifetime". Was shocked when the Dealership would change the transmission oil on my older 540! Don't trust any official recommendations from BMW.

Sent lovingly from my S8.

[jerojero]

Anyway, people buying German cars in Asia must be stupid if not changing oil every 10000 kms.
Of course, many don't care because they will change the car when the guarantee ends, but this is why I do not buy second hand crap to save few $$$. People who do not have enough money should drive a Toyota, then no need to change oil at all ! 5555

How frequently do engines really fail from changing oil less frequently? Long before such catestrophic failures dozens of other components will wear out! And if you throw tons of money year after year fixing those other smaller issues, you've paid out too much to worry about engine failure.

Sent lovingly from my S8.

[Woodsie888]

3 hours ago, JAS21 said:

Maybe BMW, over the years, have employed more than one system to determine oil chsnge intervals ☺

 

 NOW if you can tell me 'how it works' on MrsJ's 10th Gen. Civic RS I would be very interested ...thanks

I'm not familiar with Honda's system Jas.

[speedtripler]

1 hour ago, jerojero said:

How frequently do engines really fail from changing oil less frequently? Long before such catestrophic failures dozens of other components will wear out! And if you throw tons of money year after year fixing those other smaller issues, you've paid out too much to worry about engine failure.

Sent lovingly from my S8.
 

It's not how often they fail, it's the cost of it when it happens is usually colossal 

I know a guy in the states who blew his Mercedes amg engine

It was a 90k car and they wanted 72k for a new engine but engines can often be 60% of the price of new vehicle

 

Compared to that,  oil and servicing is cheap! 

[dpdp]

8 hours ago, jerojero said:

And BMW claims or at least previously claimed transmission oil is "lifetime". Was shocked when the Dealership would change the transmission oil on my older 540! Don't trust any official recommendations from BMW.

Sent lovingly from my S8.
 

 

Yes, they prefer that you pay for a new one after it breaks !

 

What is crazy is that only BMW is scamming this way...

 

Never read anything like this about Benz.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

My X5 at 3 years old and 22k-kms now has been serviced twice... at 8000 km and at 15000 km which equates very roughly to the one year and two year mark respectively.

 

Under BMW BSI servicing is included for 5 years... I'm not sure how this could be a scam.

 

 

I'm not suggesting BMW are the best out there, but this thread is reading a little like the 'Apple-Samsung' threads.... the haters are out there and the bias is often beyond intelligent balance.

[dpdp]

52 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

My X5 at 3 years old and 22k-kms now has been serviced twice... at 8000 km and at 15000 km which equates very roughly to the one year and two year mark respectively.

 

Under BMW BSI servicing is included for 5 years... I'm not sure how this could be a scam.

 

 

I'm not suggesting BMW are the best out there, but this thread is reading a little like the 'Apple-Samsung' threads.... the haters are out there and the bias is often beyond intelligent balance.

 

Difficult to understand right ?

 

Before BSI BMW was asking to change oil every 10000kms, then it became 25000 for years after they offered BSI, and until they finally had too many complains. They wanted to avoid a class action as people started to have problem when cars reached 100k.

 

So in case it's not clear enough: when people where paying their own oil they had to change it every 10000 and when BMW was paying, it was ok to change it every 25000.

 

But after having cheated people for years (people who had problems because oil was not changed often enough), they finally came back to the only smart every 10k oil change.

 

And yes, you are right, people buying iphone every 2 years since 10 years haven't been scammed AT ALL ! Even after apple confessed 10% of how they are cheating people. Because of course the battery scam is nothing compare to all what they are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[canthai55]

Without statistics listing how many cars were sold, how many engine failures happened comparing 10K and 25K service intervals, the topic will continue to be a He Said He Said debate going nowhere.

Post some third party results of an investigation.

[transam]

Do BMW use synthetic oil in their later rides..?

[dpdp]

42 minutes ago, transam said:

Do BMW use synthetic oil in their later rides..?

 

Of course, all German cars.

But still, it is totally insane to think that it's acceptable.

 

 

[transam]

If using syn then l can understand why the high mileage thing, though 15K is the usual time to change syn oil. But saying that l reckon the oil would not degrade that much and one motored more regarding failure, as for wear, dunno, all engines are different...

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, transam said:

If using syn then l can understand why the high mileage thing, though 15K is the usual time to change syn oil. But saying that l reckon the oil would not degrade that much and one motored more regarding failure, as for wear, dunno, all engines are different...

Toyota now recommend using full Syn on their Diesel lumps. Changed with filter at no more than 10th regardless. But if your doing high speed trips they recommend every 5th.

It's in their book.

 

[transam]

13 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

Toyota now recommend using full Syn on their Diesel lumps. Changed with filter at no more than 10th regardless. But if your doing high speed trips they recommend every 5th.

It's in their book.

 

"Their" insurance policy.....

[fredob43]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

"Their" insurance policy.....

Might well be. Whatever the filter needs to be changed on all diesels at 10th km 6th miles. So if your going to change that might as well do the oil as well. Might be fine in cold countries, but in this heat it's false economy to leave it to a higher mileage. I always change oil + service at 5th anyway. My last 3lt engine was like new after 100th km. Only cost peanuts here so why not. 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

Might well be. Whatever the filter needs to be changed on all diesels at 10th km 6th miles. So if your going to change that might as well do the oil as well. Might be fine in cold countries, but in this heat it's false economy to leave it to a higher mileage. I always change oil + service at 5th anyway. My last 3lt engine was like new after 100th km. Only cost peanuts here so why not. 

Mine is too, doesn't burn any oil, and l have never changed the oil at 5k, if mineral l would...

 

In fact I have never had the valve lash checked, the thing is as quiet as a mouse...

[fredob43]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Mine is too, doesn't burn any oil, and l have never changed the oil at 5k, if mineral l would...

 

In fact I have never had the valve lash checked, the thing is as quiet as a mouse...

My last Spivo used semi Syn Toyo oil recommended.

I also used to do some fast runs, as it was tweaked engine wise. On clear roads 160+ wasn't uncommon. As you know the early ones had the 4 speed auto box so would rev a tad.  

 

New one is far better with it's 6th gear.. But have got used to doing the 5th service so still continue to do same.

 

Last one at Toyo, including 8lt Full Syn oil, Eng: filter, new aircon: filter, grease prop: came to 2,320bt a lot less under 2.000bt if you don't have the prop greased or aircon: filter.  As stated peanuts.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, fredob43 said:

My last Spivo used semi Syn Toyo oil recommended.

I also used to do some fast runs, as it was tweaked engine wise. On clear roads 160+ wasn't uncommon. As you know the early ones had the 4 speed auto box so would rev a tad.  

 

New one is far better with it's 6th gear.. But have got used to doing the 5th service so still continue to do same.

 

Last one including 8lt Full Syn oil, Eng: filter, new aircon: filter, grease prop: came to 2,320bt a lot less under 2.000bt if you don't have the prop greased or aircon: filter.  As stated peanuts.

I question your 8 litres of full syn oil cost in your total costs stated...?

[fredob43]

9 hours ago, transam said:

I question your 8 litres of full syn oil cost in your total costs stated...?

New 2.8 Toyo diesel takes 8lt bit more than the 3lt old one. You are correct though in hindsight it was 3.320bt Whatever still cheap. If you compare it with western prices.

[transam]

8 hours ago, fredob43 said:

New 2.8 Toyo diesel takes 8lt bit more than the 3lt old one. You are correct though in hindsight it was 3.320bt Whatever still cheap. If you compare it with western prices.

3.0 Vigo uses 6 ltr of oil. If the 2.8 uses 8 litres of syn then that is 2 x 4 ltr cans.

 

4 ltr cans of syn are around 2,300bht each  = 4,600 aprox without the rest of your service stuff..Sounds like you have semi syn..

[fredob43]

8 hours ago, transam said:

3.0 Vigo uses 6 ltr of oil. If the 2.8 uses 8 litres of syn then that is 2 x 4 ltr cans.

 

4 ltr cans of syn are around 2,300bht each  = 4,600 aprox without the rest of your service stuff..Sounds like you have semi syn..

They come in 1.6lt and 2.1lt plastic screw top containers. On them says Toyota oil Fully Syn.

I used to use Semi Syn on the last Spivo. They came again in plastic containers 1.5lt a 1.1lt. They said Toyo Semi Syn. I can read.

I will when I do the next service keep the bill and also a Can? will take a snap and post them. You could of cause go into Toyo and check their prices.