Diesel pickup trucks only

[MikeyIdea]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

You do know that this is the 'Diesel and Pickup Forum' don't you?

Yes and the "Pickup" as you write doesn't have to be diesel, it's just that most of them in Thailand are

[vogie]

1 minute ago, MikeyIdea said:

Yes and the "Pickup" as you write doesn't have to be diesel, it's just that most of them in Thailand are

I am really not sure of the point you are trying to make here. Pickups don't have to be diesels, they don't have to be petrol, I sure if the pickup had a thick rubber band to drive it, it would be better for the enviroment. But I can say without contradiction (except from you of course) that diesels are better in many ways for a pickup, and if you don't believe me, google it. 

Where do you get the idea that most diesels are in Thailand, most countries I've lived in, vehicles of this ilk mostly are fitted with diesels, why, because diesels are better in this type of vehicle. 

Because your company has 400 hundred gas conversions doesn't weaken my discussion. If you cannot see that I cannot say anymore to you.

 

[MikeyIdea]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am really not sure of the point you are trying to make here. Pickups don't have to be diesels, they don't have to be petrol, I sure if the pickup had a thick rubber band to drive it, it would be better for the enviroment. But I can say without contradiction (except from you of course) that diesels are better in many ways for a pickup, and if you don't believe me, google it. 

Where do you get the idea that most diesels are in Thailand, most countries I've lived in, vehicles of this ilk mostly are fitted with diesels, why, because diesels are better in this type of vehicle. 

Because your company has 400 hundred gas conversions doesn't weaken my discussion. If you cannot see that I cannot say anymore to you.

 

I don't get the idea that most diesels are in Thailand, perhaps you can enlighten me as to where you get that idea from

I don't argue what is better or worse in pickups either, my opinion is simply that it is fortunately becoming more and more irrelevant now-a-days. Petrol is more environmentally friendly as of today and that's why many big cities are planning to prohibit diesels from entering in the future. I hope the situation gets reversed if diesel manufacturers can make diesels more environmentally friendly than petrol but it's rather unlikely as diesel is a less refined fuel and it's easier to control refineries pollution than individual cars/trucks pollution.

 

The company I work for did the LPG conversions for economical reasons only so they actually did the right thing for the wrong reason

[transam]

Pickups mainly use diesel engines because of their huge torque numbers at low RPM where they spend most of their time. To provide similar grunt with a petrol engine it would have to be an engine waaaaaaay bigger so being waaaaay more expensive to run..

 

The Toyota 2.8/3.0ltr turbo diesels provide max torque of around 370ft/lb from 1400rpm, the 2.7 petrol has half the torque, 180ft/lb, and starts providing that at a very high 2600rpm so it really is a no brainer if you want a work vehicle..

[vogie]

31 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

I don't get the idea that most diesels are in Thailand, perhaps you can enlighten me as to where you get that idea from

I don't argue what is better or worse in pickups either, my opinion is simply that it is fortunately becoming more and more irrelevant now-a-days. Petrol is more environmentally friendly as of today and that's why many big cities are planning to prohibit diesels from entering in the future. I hope the situation gets reversed if diesel manufacturers can make diesels more environmentally friendly than petrol but it's rather unlikely as diesel is a less refined fuel and it's easier to control refineries pollution than individual cars/trucks pollution.

 

The company I work for did the LPG conversions for economical reasons only so they actually did the right thing for the wrong reason

You wrote

"Yes and the "Pickup" as you write doesn't have to be diesel, it's just that most of them in Thailand are"

And to repeat, most pickups anywhere in the world are diesel, surely that must speak volumes.

I agree that petrol is better for the enviroment, but in a pickup or bigger they are far from economic, it just wouldn't work. Transam has explained the technical side to it, surely there is no alternative than a diesel in a 'pickup,' not a viable alternative anyway? 

 

 

[MikeyIdea]

43 minutes ago, transam said:

Pickups mainly use diesel engines because of their huge torque numbers at low RPM where they spend most of their time. To provide similar grunt with a petrol engine it would have to be an engine waaaaaaay bigger so being waaaaay more expensive to run..

 

The Toyota 2.8/3.0ltr turbo diesels provide max torque of around 370ft/lb from 1400rpm, the 2.7 petrol has half the torque, 180ft/lb, and starts providing that at a very high 2600rpm so it really is a no brainer if you want a work vehicle..

So what you mean is actually that an electrical engine/motor would have been even better :) I don't care what is better, it's irrelevant. Electrical motors are currently out because the total environmental effect is negative, diesels are currently out because of the current environmental effect but manufacturers should try to change that trend please, petrol and LPG are both bad solutions but unfortunately the most environmentally friendly ones we have as of now. Yes, I know that I go against the trend saying that electrical motors are dirty but most countries don't have enough clean infrastructure to produce electricity for them so what do they use to get it?

Edited January 29, 2018 by MikeyIdea

[transam]

2 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

So what you are saying is actually that an electrical engine/motor would have been even better :) I don't care what is better, it's irrelevant. Electrical motors are currently out because the total environmental effect is negative, diesels are currently out because of the current environmental effect but manufacturers should try to change that trend please, petrol and LPG are both bad solutions but unfortunately the most environmentally friendly ones we have as of now. Yes, I know that I go against the trend saying that electrical motors are dirty but most countries don't have enough clean infrastructure to produce electricity for them so what do they use to get it?

We are in the oil age which will end. We went through the coal age which caused major pollution, coal is still being used in power stations though until they can be replaced, which will take time..Just mans progress and for sure all rides will be electric in the future..

[MikeyIdea]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

You wrote

"Yes and the "Pickup" as you write doesn't have to be diesel, it's just that most of them in Thailand are"

And to repeat, most pickups anywhere in the world are diesel, surely that must speak volumes.

So, you thought that if I write that "Yes and the "Pickup" as you write doesn't have to be diesel, it's just that most of them in Thailand are" then I meant that most diesels are in Thailand too. You assumed a bit too much vogie. -- It is simply irrelevant what is or was, the larger the volume of vehicles using an environmentally bad solution is, the more important it is to either replace or improve that solution  

[Jitar]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

You wrote

"Yes and the "Pickup" as you write doesn't have to be diesel, it's just that most of them in Thailand are"

And to repeat, most pickups anywhere in the world are diesel, surely that must speak volumes.

I agree that petrol is better for the enviroment, but in a pickup or bigger they are far from economic, it just wouldn't work. Transam has explained the technical side to it, surely there is no alternative than a diesel in a 'pickup,' not a viable alternative anyway? 

 

 

Emissions from petrol engines are not better, just different.  

Petrol engine emissions are more of a problem for Greenhouse gases.

Diesel emissions are more of a problem for NOx and particulate matter.

The differences are reducing with modern direct injection petrols and DPF / SCR equiped diesels

LPG or CNG are better than either for the environment.

 

The main benefit of diesel in heavy vehicles is fuel economy.  Petrol engines can be tuned for low speed torque in trucks (as many did in the US for years).  They just suck too much fuel when doing so.    

 

 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

So, you thought that if I write that "Yes and the "Pickup" as you write doesn't have to be diesel, it's just that most of them in Thailand are" then I meant that most diesels are in Thailand too. You assumed a bit too much vogie. -- It is simply irrelevant what is or was, the larger the volume of vehicles using an environmentally bad solution is, the more important it is to either replace or improve that solution  

Can we remind ourselves what the OP asked.

 

"Does anyone know why Pick-up trucks in Thailand are only available with Diesel engines?"

 

Maybe you should start another topic on gas conversions, electric driven vehicles or even nuclear powered cars. I suspect the nuclear car would not need filling up too often, once every 5 years?

 

[dave_boo]

5 hours ago, transam said:

Pickups mainly use diesel engines because of their huge torque numbers at low RPM where they spend most of their time. To provide similar grunt with a petrol engine it would have to be an engine waaaaaaay bigger so being waaaaay more expensive to run..

 

The Toyota 2.8/3.0ltr turbo diesels provide max torque of around 370ft/lb from 1400rpm, the 2.7 petrol has half the torque, 180ft/lb, and starts providing that at a very high 2600rpm so it really is a no brainer if you want a work vehicle..

The current (L83) 5.3L Chevy makes 382 lb-ft at an astronomical (for a diesel) 4100 RPM.  For having to move a 2542 kg truck (nearly 2x that of a Vigo!), returning ~14 L/100km isn't too shabby.  I poked around fuelly for a comparison, but can't tell whether the diesel engines are the 3.0 or different sized; however their mpg is in the low 20's.  Since the UK mpg rating converts some 20% higher than the US system, the 5.3L having an average of ~16.5 (us)mpg or ~19.8 (uk)mpg means that it's not really that much more expensive to run.  A midrange 4 door LT package will set you back almost 1.25M baht; that's 100K more than the top of the line 4x4 4 door Vigo.  That's a pretty large amount of cash for fuel...

 

Also, interestingly, on the Toyota Thailand website it has the torque of the 2.8L as 450 Nm which is only 332 lb-ft.  If we're to assume they're correct the below dyno indicates that the 5.3L is making approximately that around 2000 RPM.  In fact I'd hazard a guess that it's making some 310 lb-ft at some 1500 RPM.

 

I started this post off in support of what you had stated (and I still do about diesel engines being swell in trucks), but it sure does make me swell with patriotic pride that we can take a 'wimpy' gasoline powered pushrod engine with less than 2x the displacement and exceed a turbocharged diesel.  It's kind of the same as the new 500cc bikes (having to meet L2 restrictions) being able to match the NSR250's peak HP.

 

**edit**

Seems the picture broke upon posting, so here's the link:

http://gmpowertrain.com/2014_images/charts_lg/2015_L83_5.3L_V8_SilSie.jpg

 

**edit deux**

Corrected my metric 'mileage'.

Edited January 29, 2018 by dave_boo

[MikeyIdea]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Can we remind ourselves what the OP asked.

 

"Does anyone know why Pick-up trucks in Thailand are only available with Diesel engines?"

 

Maybe you should start another topic on gas conversions, electric driven vehicles or even nuclear powered cars. I suspect the nuclear car would not need filling up too often, once every 5 years?

 

Easy answer to the OPs question: Most models are available only with diesel engines because the Thai government subsidise diesel but not petrol. That was not rocket science :)

[Lagavulin]

42 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

Easy answer to the OPs question: Most models are available only with diesel engines because the Thai government subsidise diesel but not petrol. That was not rocket science :)

Thank you....exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for.  Didnt expect such a shit-storm.....

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, MikeyIdea said:

Easy answer to the OPs question: Most models are available only with diesel engines because the Thai government subsidise diesel but not petrol. That was not rocket science :)

Your aversion for diesel prevents you from the real cause: diesel is the better engine for this kind of use due to more torque.