Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[soalbundy]

Just now, nauseus said:

The Hawaii TV thingy?

 

You are showing your age, in those days I had to use a comb.

[nauseus]

Just now, soalbundy said:

You are showing your age, in those days I had to use a comb.

I meant the reruns.

[aright]

30 minutes ago, Grouse said:

They both equal 0.5 and that is the point

My god! I would hate to see some of your engineering projects.

[soalbundy]

Time to check if my German pension has arrived, we get the yearly increase in June no matter where we live, how does the British government look after their expats ? I bet there are many who wished that the EU had interfered in that case.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

My god! I would hate to see some of your engineering projects.

That would be the bridge that collapsed in America

[aright]

13 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Knowing how stellar you guys are with numbers:

 

0.48 and 0.52 can both be correctly expressed as 0.5.

 

Agree or not?

It's more difficult with 48 and 52 unless you are on Stella of course.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, aright said:

It's more difficult with 48 and 52 unless you are on Stella of course.

Let nature take its course and the numbers will change drastically, say 60 to 40 

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Time to check if my German pension has arrived, we get the yearly increase in June no matter where we live, how does the British government look after their expats ? I bet there are many who wished that the EU had interfered in that case.

The opposite can be said of the Greek pensions, of course.

[aright]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The opposite can be said of the Greek pensions, of course.

The Greeks sorted there problems out with the help of the Germans

 

"It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. 
On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. 
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note. 
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money and leaves town. 
No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with optimism. 
And that,  is how a bailout package should work! "

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, talahtnut said:

To quote the infamous Grouse, 'Utter nonsense'.

I suspect that you mean notorious but I'll make an allowance.

[talahtnut]

34 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Time to check if my German pension has arrived, we get the yearly increase in June no matter where we live, how does the British government look after their expats ? I bet there are many who wished that the EU had interfered in that case.

English folk are proud of their debt, austerity, food banks, beggars and

homeless.  The envy of all you EU lot.

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, transam said:

So you actually believe it would have avoided 50m deaths and the EU NOW has similar laws...

 

3 hours ago, transam said:

...

3 hours ago, transam said:

Do you need some new reading glasses? I said IF it would have avoided 50M deaths AND if Hitler's EU had similar rules to our own. When you get some new speculators, read a bit of European history.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

Arch remainers just will not accept that economics was not the prime reason for the leave vote. They have no other argument. Ever.

 

We are well aware that a large percentage of the leave vote was based on emotion rather than reason, and you cannot reason with emotion.

[sirineou]

57 minutes ago, aright said:

The Greeks sorted there problems out with the help of the Germans

 

"It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. 
On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. 
The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. 
The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note. 
The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money and leaves town. 
No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with optimism. 
And that,  is how a bailout package should work! "

 This is a good description of the multiplier effect , it fails to account economic friction that limits the number of times the initial monetary injection reverberates  through the economy ,and it makes a case against the Germans . 

  When the world wide  depresion occurred The The US did not impose Austerity exactly for the above described reasons and a such was the first economy to resurface from depression.

Greece's economy  is still languishing  in large measure because of the austerity that the Germans have imposed on the Greeks, The Bailouts are not designed to bailout Greece but to pay German creditors , further digging the hole Greece is in. In the meantime these creditors ar buying Greeces resources for pennies on the dollar, If and when Greece resurfuses from under the economic bondage its in  I am afraid there will be very litle if anything of Greece remaining and would simply be a whole owned subsidiary of Germany. Why Tsipras is allowing this is beyond me , perhaps he knows something I don't know, Let's see what happens with Varoufakis entering the political arena in Greece.

Edited March 30, 2018 by sirineou

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Great example of a Gaussian distribution. Two outliers and a clear mean. In this case, we don't have that. It is a split.

What rubbish! It depends entirely on whether you use Bayesian or frequentist inference 

[sandyf]

It is funny how many brexiteers turn to Greece for an attack on the EU.

It has to be assumed that they have forgotten that Greece falsified its accounts to gain EU membership, otherwise it could be taken that brexiteers are quite prepared to support cheats.

[sandyf]

Looks like any effect from brexit on Airbus in the UK may now be a moot point.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/gkn-melrose-hostile-takeover-victory-spitfire-battle-of-britain-a8280351.html

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, aright said:

What rubbish! It depends entirely on whether you use Bayesian or frequentist inference 

Absolutely right ! X is not 1 but a percentage of ,,such percentage dependant on friction such as marginal propensity to consume, save, and a number of other impediments.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is funny how many brexiteers turn to Greece for an attack on the EU.

It has to be assumed that they have forgotten that Greece falsified its accounts to gain EU membership, otherwise it could be taken that brexiteers are quite prepared to support cheats.

Funny? Not for Greek pensioners. While the super German pensions were being championed as an EU influenced plus point, nothing was said of the opposite effect of the austere Greek poverty line payments. The rules were broken on both sides when Greece went in but maybe you have conveniently forgotten that?

 

The biggest cheat in Europe is the EU itself. 

[simoh1490]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

We are well aware that a large percentage of the leave vote was based on emotion rather than reason, and you cannot reason with emotion.

Which is why this thread will never be a debate and all parties are simply spinning their wheels for virtually no good reason. The real problems will come downstream, unless things work out really really well for UK Plc. during the first five years there's the potential for substantial civil unrest, or potentially, as another poster points out, yet another referendum - either way it all means much wasted time and effort that could and should be channeled into more useful activities. 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

That can be arranged.

Very true, easy to change the government at Westminster, unfortunately impossible to change the tin pot dictators in Brussels.

[Khun Han]

20 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Which is why this thread will never be a debate and all parties are simply spinning their wheels for virtually no good reason. The real problems will come downstream, unless things work out really really well for UK Plc. during the first five years there's the potential for substantial civil unrest, or potentially, as another poster points out, yet another referendum - either way it all means much wasted time and effort that could and should be channeled into more useful activities. 

 

Debate is never possible with people whose idea of debate is everybody else eating out of their hand.

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Debate is never possible with people whose idea of debate is everybody else eating out of their hand.

I don't know about "eating out of their hand. " but I agree with you on principle. Many are here not because they enjoy debating, but because they want their opinion reaffirmed.

Rarely to you hear the response "fair enough" 

 

more than 2600 replies  and no consensus on one single issue.. 

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I don't know about "eating out of their hand. " but I agree with you on principle. Many are here not because they enjoy debating, but because they want their opinion reaffirmed.

Rarely to you hear the response "fair enough" 

 

more than 2600 replies  and no consensus on one single issue.. 

 

Whilst they have not changed my basic position, there are remain posters whose posts I often find informative and challenging (Orac and Rocking Robin are two who immediately spring to mind). But there are others who just seem to want to opine, then follow up with belittlement and attempted bullying.

[simoh1490]

And then there are those posters who don't suffer fools gladly!

[sirineou]

Just now, simoh1490 said:

And then there are those posters who don't suffer fools gladly!

 don't you think that's foolish ? LOL

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

And then there are those posters who don't suffer fools gladly!

 

I'm quite tolerant of them, as you have seen.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, aright said:

I thought we had been trying to change things for 40 years and no concessions not even for Mr Cameron. Change is now been demanded by extreme right wing parties. The only response from Barnier and Juncker to the Italian election was to install another crony. Where will it all end? 

At the risk of being pedantic, Cameron did indeed win small but useful concessions. These were lost thanks to Brexit gaining a bare majority.

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 don't you think that's foolish ? LOL

Not at all. There's debate and then there's "debate", the latter being mostly devoid of any of the commonly accepted attributes of the former, which is exactly what you alluded to when you said you'd rarely seen anyone say, fair enough. This, is "debate".

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, aright said:

You need to get out more. Try a walk in Shepherds Bush, Acton, Earls Court and Fulham. There are 330,000 Australians living there. and 500,000 total in the UK.

You don't think that some of these may just be young people coming over immediately before or after uni to see first world life before going back? All the Aussie birds I met fell into that catagory!