Enforcement Of 90 Out Of 180 Days

[DivinGuy]

I had a somewhat similar experience yesterday flying into BKK. I came here in November on a 60 day tourist visa, and extended it at the beginning of January. I left a few days before the extension expired and went to Laos. When I returned yesterday, the immigration officer went through my passport carefully (I haven't been here that many times, once in 2005, early 2006 and Nov, 2006). She added a '1' to the stamp from my entry using the visa, then a '2' to the stamp she put in my passport.

This may turn into a major pita for me because I was trying to use Thailand as home base for a five to six month trip, going to Laos, Cambodia, etc, and always returning to Thailand. Hmmm, Laos was very nice, and cheap enough to make up for the expensive visas...

It does look as if Airport immigration are implementing the rules correctly, by counting days, whereas land borders are assuming all traffic is visa runners on consecutive visa exempt permits and just counting stamps.

Your case is a bit of a connumdrum, because we are all assuming these numbers are a count of visa exempt entries, and that when the count goes to '3' you will be refused entry. If that is true, your tourist visa entry should not have been numbered. The problem is that there is nothing official about these numbers, they are just hints from one officer to another. One would like to think that when the number hits '3' you can request the count be done properly, but it's not something you'd want to bet the condo on.

BTW, Why didn't you get a double entry visa?

The Thai Embassy in LA was only issuing single entry tourist visas. I think I could have gotten a re-entry permit if I had flown to Laos, but I went to Laos overland, then flew back. I got a visa under the assumption that I would use it for 60 - 90 days, then my travels outside Thailand would keep my actual time in country on visa exemption below 90 days.

I may go to the immigration office here in Phuket and ask them about it. I can run to KL and get another tourist visa, or maybe get one in Phnom Penh in February. Cost of the visas isn't a problem, and I would happily pay a lot more for a multiple entry tourist visa.

[lopburi3]

The 1/2 etc are just to flag entries after October 1 that must be considered when making 90 day count. It does not mean they will be counted toward the total and it does not mean they will be counting the numbers. Entry without visa or extension of stay on a non visa entry are what will be counted toward the 90 day total as of now.

[rexall]

Your case is a bit of a connumdrum, because we are all assuming these numbers are a count of visa exempt entries, and that when the count goes to '3' you will be refused entry

No we are not "all" assuming any such thing. The numbers have been proven to be a means to alert following officers to those entry days that will have to be counted. The count is days, at all crossings.

Wed 31 Jan 07, 10:55 a.m.

Lopi,

Regardless who who is or isn't assuming what about whatever, what you have posted "seems" to clear up a very confusing contradiction. It makes perfect sense they way you explain it. If someone only has two entries, the officer obviously doesn't need to bother to count the days. That's almost too logical!

Thanks.

Aloha,

Rex

[RoueLeJour]

Your case is a bit of a connumdrum, because we are all assuming these numbers are a count of visa exempt entries, and that when the count goes to '3' you will be refused entry

No we are not "all" assuming any such thing. The numbers have been proven to be a means to alert following officers to those entry days that will have to be counted. The count is days, at all crossings.

My apologies, I had no right to say "we are all assuming". Consider me chastised.

Lopburi3's explanation is exactly how I would hope the system would work, but it doesn't explain why divinguy's entry on a tourist visa was numbered. Mine wasn't, and if it had have been, I would be as concerned as he.

At the risk of further humiliation, might I humbly ask, where has the meaning of the numbers been proven?

[mazimus]

I dont understand why Thailand constantly makes it harder for tourists,a huge percent of the Thai economy comes from tourism.I holidayed in Thailand for years,then after my first trip to Malaysia i have never returned.Maybe if everyone boycotted Thailand for a year or so,the so called powers that be in Thailand would not be long in changing all these stupid rules.

[cali4995]

I had a somewhat similar experience yesterday flying into BKK. I came here in November on a 60 day tourist visa, and extended it at the beginning of January. I left a few days before the extension expired and went to Laos. When I returned yesterday, the immigration officer went through my passport carefully (I haven't been here that many times, once in 2005, early 2006 and Nov, 2006). She added a '1' to the stamp from my entry using the visa, then a '2' to the stamp she put in my passport.

This may turn into a major pita for me because I was trying to use Thailand as home base for a five to six month trip, going to Laos, Cambodia, etc, and always returning to Thailand. Hmmm, Laos was very nice, and cheap enough to make up for the expensive visas...

It does look as if Airport immigration are implementing the rules correctly, by counting days, whereas land borders are assuming all traffic is visa runners on consecutive visa exempt permits and just counting stamps.

Your case is a bit of a connumdrum, because we are all assuming these numbers are a count of visa exempt entries, and that when the count goes to '3' you will be refused entry. If that is true, your tourist visa entry should not have been numbered. The problem is that there is nothing official about these numbers, they are just hints from one officer to another. One would like to think that when the number hits '3' you can request the count be done properly, but it's not something you'd want to bet the condo on.

BTW, Why didn't you get a double entry visa?

The Thai Embassy in LA was only issuing single entry tourist visas. I think I could have gotten a re-entry permit if I had flown to Laos, but I went to Laos overland, then flew back. I got a visa under the assumption that I would use it for 60 - 90 days, then my travels outside Thailand would keep my actual time in country on visa exemption below 90 days.

I may go to the immigration office here in Phuket and ask them about it. I can run to KL and get another tourist visa, or maybe get one in Phnom Penh in February. Cost of the visas isn't a problem, and I would happily pay a lot more for a multiple entry tourist visa.

interesting what you say about the thai embassy in los angeles, i see on their website now it specifies (no multiple entry) but on another thread here some people recently obtained triple/quadruple entries in london? i think the situation is similar for thai consulates in neighboring countries, no consistency with regards to any policy.

[sniffdog]

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I dont understand why Thailand constantly makes it harder for tourists

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It doesn't ... it just wants to get away with the eternal tourists.

[warwick7735]

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I dont understand why Thailand constantly makes it harder for tourists

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It doesn't ... it just wants to get away with the eternal tourists.

Hi All

Agree fully, if you want to stay a long time get yourself a non imm '0'. If your a tourist, it means you travel around, I dont just go to the nearest border and come back, I see some of the world. Fly to Hong kong, Dubai, singapore etc, then fly back home, thats what tourists do. All those that complain about having to do a visa run every 30days shouldn't really be here without the correct visa. If your staying for longer than 30 days get the correct paperwork.

They let us visit there country, they coped when we didn't visit, and I'm sure they would again without us.

If you were Thai, you try getting a visa to come to the UK and see how hard it is to stay for long periods of time.

Warwick

[icecubes]

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I dont understand why Thailand constantly makes it harder for tourists

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It doesn't ... it just wants to get away with the eternal tourists.

Hi All

Agree fully, if you want to stay a long time get yourself a non imm '0'. If your a tourist, it means you travel around, I dont just go to the nearest border and come back, I see some of the world. Fly to Hong kong, Dubai, singapore etc, then fly back home, thats what tourists do. All those that complain about having to do a visa run every 30days shouldn't really be here without the correct visa. If your staying for longer than 30 days get the correct paperwork.

They let us visit there country, they coped when we didn't visit, and I'm sure they would again without us.

If you were Thai, you try getting a visa to come to the UK and see how hard it is to stay for long periods of time.

Warwick

Thats a lot of words, just to say im all right jack.

[Gaudente]

I dont understand why Thailand constantly makes it harder for tourists,a huge percent of the Thai economy comes from tourism.I holidayed in Thailand for years,then after my first trip to Malaysia i have never returned.Maybe if everyone boycotted Thailand for a year or so,the so called powers that be in Thailand would not be long in changing all these stupid rules.

Because they are xenophobe.And do not think they might ever realize their rules are stupid (even if they go bankrupt applying them), their diet is simply too salt short for that.

By the way, could you explain why is Malaysia better then Thailand ? People who went to Penang to get the visa have always spoken me badly about the place....it would be interesting to hear someone who thinks otherways

Edited February 1, 2007 by Gaudente

[warwick7735]

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I dont understand why Thailand constantly makes it harder for tourists

======================================================================

It doesn't ... it just wants to get away with the eternal tourists.

Hi All

Agree fully, if you want to stay a long time get yourself a non imm '0'. If your a tourist, it means you travel around, I dont just go to the nearest border and come back, I see some of the world. Fly to Hong kong, Dubai, singapore etc, then fly back home, thats what tourists do. All those that complain about having to do a visa run every 30days shouldn't really be here without the correct visa. If your staying for longer than 30 days get the correct paperwork.

They let us visit there country, they coped when we didn't visit, and I'm sure they would again without us.

If you were Thai, you try getting a visa to come to the UK and see how hard it is to stay for long periods of time.

Warwick

Thats a lot of words, just to say im all right jack.

If you aren't doing anything illegal none of you have anything to worry about, why come over here on a 30 day tourist visa if you intend staying longer. I think thay should only issue one 30 day pass, if you want to stay longer go back to your country of residence and get the appropriate visa. I think all visas should only be issued from the country of residence.

I think when I'm in Thailand I'm a guest and have no right to be there if they don't want me to be. You all know the rules and regulations, if you dont like them you can always go somewhere else.

[icecubes]

Warwick

If you aren't doing anything illegal none of you have anything to worry about,

Go back and read my post on the reason, I think it’s a load of

Rubbish. We are not all crooks you know

why come over here on a 30 day tourist visa if you intend staying longer. I think thay should only issue one 30 day pass, if you want to stay longer go back to your country of residence and get the appropriate visa. I think all visas should only be issued from the country of residence.

Why.

How on earth would people travel round the world freely.

Ill thought out reply

I think when I'm in Thailand I'm a guest and have no right to be there if they don't want me to be. You all know the rules and regulations, if you dont like them you can always go somewhere else.

Like i said, im alright jack.

[warwick7735]

Ice cube

How is issuing only one 30 day pass going to restrict people on holiday, they can visit each country for 30 days, if your staying for more than 30 days you get the appropriate visa before you leave your home country, simple.

Staying in one country for 365days cant be classed as a holiday.

What I am saying is that people think they have a right to stay in Thailand, well they dont they are here as guests. If the Thai government want to clamp down on people thats up to them.

[icecubes]

Ice cube

How is issuing only one 30 day pass going to restrict people on holiday, they can visit each country for 30 days, if your staying for more than 30 days you get the appropriate visa before you leave your home country, simple.

Staying in one country for 365days cant be classed as a holiday.

What I am saying is that people think they have a right to stay in Thailand, well they dont they are here as guests. If the Thai government want to clamp down on people thats up to them.

So how do people travel round the world as people do

for a year or more . 30 days in Thailand now piss off.

If people get loads of different visas for countries, the activation date to use the visa could have expired, before you get to use it., then what do you do, that’s it go back to your home country and get one more. a stupid comment.

thats Just one example. Again im alright jack.

go back and read what i wrote .

[warwick7735]

Ice cube

I suggest you read what I'm trying to say.

Travelling around the world means travelling to different countries, you can stay in each country for 30 days, For me travelling around the world is not flying to Thailand for 12 months then going home.

If you want to stay longer than 30 days in any one country you get a visa before you leave. A visa lasts 12 months so you can see all the countries you want, and spend as much time as the visa allows in that 12 months.

If you can afford to travel around the world for more than 12 months, then most sensible people would arrange a stop off in there home country to arrange the other visas for the remaining countries.

Maybe you cant see what I am trying to say, a tourist visa is that, for tourism only. 30 stamp on entry is for short stay only, not to be re-issued every time you leave the border and come back in.

Too many people are abusing the sytsem, now the government are clamping down on it. It's been easy in the past and now it isn't and people are complaining. Too many people are living here full time on tourist visas or the 30 day stamp, and it should be stopped.

I've got a permanent address here in the UK. If I wasn't allowed visa, I'd just come over for 30 days then fly home for a couple of months before flying back for another 30 days, so not staying for more than the 90 days. It's no hardship if you really want to spend time in the country. If it is too hard for the person, well they can go back home to there home country.

[icecubes]

Ice cube

I suggest you read what I'm trying to say.

Travelling around the world means travelling to different countries, you can stay in each country for 30 days, For me travelling around the world is not flying to Thailand for 12 months then going home.

If you want to stay longer than 30 days in any one country you get a visa before you leave. A visa lasts 12 months so you can see all the countries you want, and spend as much time as the visa allows in that 12 months.

If you can afford to travel around the world for more than 12 months, then most sensible people would arrange a stop off in there home country to arrange the other visas for the remaining countries.

Maybe you cant see what I am trying to say, a tourist visa is that, for tourism only. 30 stamp on entry is for short stay only, not to be re-issued every time you leave the border and come back in.

Too many people are abusing the sytsem, now the government are clamping down on it. It's been easy in the past and now it isn't and people are complaining. Too many people are living here full time on tourist visas or the 30 day stamp, and it should be stopped.

I've got a permanent address here in the UK. If I wasn't allowed visa, I'd just come over for 30 days then fly home for a couple of months before flying back for another 30 days, so not staying for more than the 90 days. It's no hardship if you really want to spend time in the country. If it is too hard for the person, well they can go back home to there home country.

Get on with it mate,

I can’t be bothered with people who twist and turn like you have over your last few posts. One day your blindfold will fall off.

Have a nice day.

[ovenman]

If you want to stay longer than 30 days in any one country you get a visa before you leave. A visa lasts 12 months so you can see all the countries you want, and spend as much time as the visa allows in that 12 months.

In all of my travels I have never noticed that I could only stay in any one country for a single month without a visa (if memory serves, the UK allows me a stay of six months). Wasn't aware either that there was some single 12 month world-wide visa one could apply for that allowed one to see all the countries you want.

[warwick7735]

Ice cube

Out of interest what visa you here on, or are you a national now as you've been here for so long.

I dont twist and turn, maybe if you removed your blindfold, you'd finally understand what is so simple. Tourist is tourist nothing more.

//non English removed - lopburi3//

[icecubes]

Ice cube

Out of interest what visa you here on, or are you a national now as you've been here for so long.

I dont twist and turn, maybe if you removed your blindfold, you'd finally understand what is so simple. Tourist is tourist nothing more.

//non English removed - lopburi3//

I could give you some more information .

but I feel this would not, be the best idea, as you seam to have a problem in processing information at any reasonable speed.

Think some of the more astute members can work out, what visa im on at present

Last words from me to you.

Have a nice day.

[rexall]

Ice cube

How is issuing only one 30 day pass going to restrict people on holiday, they can visit each country for 30 days, if your staying for more than 30 days you get the appropriate visa before you leave your home country, simple.

Staying in one country for 365days cant be classed as a holiday.

What I am saying is that people think they have a right to stay in Thailand, well they dont they are here as guests. If the Thai government want to clamp down on people thats up to them.

Fri 02 Feb 07, 12:13 p.m.

Tiresome, Mr. Cube!

We are not "guests" in Thailand, we are something else. I don't know what, but the notion that we are guests is a polite fiction. In this context, the real meaning of "guest" is someone here who has practically no rights to do much of anything at all in the country, is encouraged to spend money expected to pay taxes, and then leave. OK, fine. But to use the word "guest" as if it implies some kind of special status like staying at the Dusit and getting yummy mints on your pillow, and complimentary little bottles of shampoo clouds the issue terribly. At the least, I tell guests in my home to "make themselves at home", and if I am feeling especially expansive, I even take them out to dinner!

The fact that Thailand, as does any sovereign state, has the right to pass laws is stating the obvious and using that fact to distort the discussion. No one said Thailand shouldn't pass laws. However, that does not mean that such laws are rational, intelligent, workable, fair, consistent or kind. And if Thailand has the right to pass laws (which it most certainly does), at the very least the group of people who those laws are about, and intended deliberately and specifically to effect, have the right to discuss, analyze and debate them. At least so far. But, what the h e l l --they could always pass some laws to shut us up! Why not? After all, it's their "right"!

Aloha,

Rex

Edited February 2, 2007 by rexall

[icecubes]

Discus what you like., who said you cant.

Who said guest

Direct that at the right person.

[rexall]

Wasn't aware either that there was some single 12 month world-wide visa one could apply for that allowed one to see all the countries you want.

Not yet, mate, but we are working on it. But there is this little deal called the EU where lots of very smart, very dedicated people have spent decades working to make borders more open, to reduce restrictions on the free-flow of trade and people. The EU is probably the best example, but not the only one. The trend is to make international borders more open, not less, to reduce xenophobia and ethnocentrism, not to increase it.

Close down all the visa sections in all the consulates world-over and use the money to feed starving people! Install smart chips in all passports which are scanned as you arrive at border/airport, and the government now knows where you are and has volumes more data about you than they could ever hope to collect at consulate filling out stupid, paper forms and gluing photos. The way they do it now is like the Flintstones!

Aloha,

Rex

[rexall]

Discus what you like., who said you cant.

Who said guest

Direct that at the right person.

Oooops! Sorry!

[baboon]

I dont understand why Thailand constantly makes it harder for tourists,a huge percent of the Thai economy comes from tourism.I holidayed in Thailand for years,then after my first trip to Malaysia i have never returned.Maybe if everyone boycotted Thailand for a year or so,the so called powers that be in Thailand would not be long in changing all these stupid rules.

Because they are xenophobe.And do not think they might ever realize their rules are stupid (even if they go bankrupt applying them), their diet is simply too salt short for that.

By the way, could you explain why is Malaysia better then Thailand ? People who went to Penang to get the visa have always spoken me badly about the place....it would be interesting to hear someone who thinks otherways

Well I think Penang is a lovely place to be. Friendly people, great food, good shopping etc. I have always enjoyed my visits.

[icecubes]

Discus what you like., who said you cant.

Who said guest

Direct that at the right person.

Oooops! Sorry!

No worries mate.

[ovenman]

People who went to Penang to get the visa have always spoken me badly about the place....it would be interesting to hear someone who thinks otherways

Penang is a very enjoyable destination. I could just as easily live there as live in Chiang Mai. That said, I've never taken a Penang trip merely to apply for a Thai visa as I obtain mine elsewhere. I suppose Penang is a different experience for somebody who feels that they are "forced" to go to there (or wherever) just for a Thai visa. Although this is perhaps an over-generalization, I've often gotten the impresion that many who trash-talk Penang are mostly griping that the nightlife is shall we say, diferent, than that on offer in Thailand. Plus, beer is more expensive in Malaysia.

Edited February 2, 2007 by ovenman

[stingray]

I think the signs are very clear. They want only Tourists, not residents. They want make money with tourists. Spend in a short time a lot of money and then go home. They don't like residents and they don't like when foreigners living here longtime, open business and making money (sale houses cars, open bars, etc) with other foreigners. They want make the money for them self. But they forget, Who gonna buy the houses, property, etc. if foreigners can't stay here? But in fact, to come here and spend money for Holiday only, there are nicer places in the world than Pattaya. Anyway. I myself had for the last 5 year allways 1 year visa, Company and Work Permit. But in 2006 i got nothing than troubles. I myself think it's time to go. We are foreigners with no rights and we can't change this. Everybody should consider to go somewhere else and prepare them self to leave. Try to find the way arround the Immigrationlaws, to stay, will not work out in a longterm. There are many other places in this world. You should choice a country where we can get citizenship later. Otherwise we gonna face the same problem again.

Time is running out!

[Drronin]

Hope that it is all right to tack on my 90-day/180 day question to this thread. I am still unclear a bit on how to count days and what can be done if you go over the 90 days. Unfortunately I wasn't keeping tabs on the visa rules while back in the USA and until a friend mentioned this restriction the other day I wasn't aware of it. My problem is that I think I will likely go over the 90 day limit and not sure what to do about it. Let me itemize my ins and outs if that is ok.

I came to Thailand on a 2 entry visa on 7/29/06

Left country for HK on 8/18 and returned to Thailand on 8/22

Remained in Thailand till I left on 9/25 for Malaysia and returned on 10/3

Remaind in Thailand till 10/23 (21 days)

Left country for Angkor Wat and was back on 10/27

Stayed in Thailand till 11/20 (25 days)

Left country for HK and returned on 11/24 and stayed till 12/13 (20 days)

All that for a total of 66 days.

One question is with my 2 entry visa - would that include only the first one into Thailand and then the next from HK - or is that 2 entries after the intial one - and if the later than would my 90 day count include the first 21 days or not?

If not then I was at 66 days when I came and have been here since 1/27 and not planning on returning till 3/13. That would take me well over my 90 days. I have to leave by 2/25 according to my passport (which did not note the number of days I had left and would already take me over 90 days) and want to be sure I can get back in to catch my plane. So whats the best way to deal with this other than going back home by 2/25 or staying in another country for weeks - can I get some sort of extention on this here so that I can go over 90 days. And finally if I go over 90-days without permission what are the repercussions?

Thanks so much.

[Maestro]

On February 25, go to an immigration office with your ticket showing your confirmed flight out of Thailand on March 3 and apply for an extension of stay of 7 days.

Immigration used to grant 10 days extension on a visa-exempt entry but recent reports have indicated a change to 7 days only, which for you is sufficient.

--

Maestro

Edit: make that February 23, as 25 is a Sunday.

[tropo]

People who went to Penang to get the visa have always spoken me badly about the place....it would be interesting to hear someone who thinks otherways

Penang is a very enjoyable destination. I could just as easily live there as live in Chiang Mai. That said, I've never taken a Penang trip merely to apply for a Thai visa as I obtain mine elsewhere. I suppose Penang is a different experience for somebody who feels that they are "forced" to go to there (or wherever) just for a Thai visa. Although this is perhaps an over-generalization, I've often gotten the impresion that many who trash-talk Penang are mostly griping that the nightlife is shall we say, diferent, than that on offer in Thailand. Plus, beer is more expensive in Malaysia.

I agree, Penang is a great destination, and a good place to live. I look forward to going there to do my visa runs and last time I stayed a week.