Dutch tourist falls to death from ladyboy’s condo in Bangkok

[mogandave]

 
I found a Thai Ministerial Order governing the building codes for a Nursery (for kids).   The law specifies the height of windows, balcony railings, stair rails etc.   

Here are some details :-   
 
The height from the floor to the border of the window shall not be less than 80 centimetres
 
Every stair shall have handrail and bar with height no less than 1.20 metres and have short rail
suitable for children to help them go up the stairs. 
 
The distance of the bar shall not be more than 15 centimetres, and the landings of the stairs in each interval shall not be less
than the width of the stairs. 
 
If the building has the balcony, the height of the border of the balcony shall not be less than 100 centimetres. The width of the balcony shall not be less than 1.50 metres. If there is a bench, the balcony shall have the width not less than 1.75 metres with the height of the border of the balcony not less than 70 centimetres. 

Is there a point to this?

Did the Dutchman fall or jump or get pushed off the balcony of a nursery?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Is there a point to this?

Did the Dutchman fall or jump or get pushed off the balcony of a nursery?

 

I reckon there is only one person that knows the answer to that question. Get her in a room and shine the hot bright lights on her! 

[seancbk]

5 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Is there a point to this?

Did the Dutchman fall or jump or get pushed off the balcony of a nursery?

 

 

I was agreeing with you.

The point is that there are rules and regulations governing the height of railings in Thailand, hence you and I have never seen knee high barriers.

 

24 minutes ago, seancbk said:

42 minutes ago, mogandave said:

People are claiming they have seen high-end hotel balconies with knee-high barriers.
I have seen some barriers that could be higher, but I have never seen knee-high barriers, have you?
Personally, given the number of balconies and the number of drunks, I’m surprised more don’t get it.
Thinking about it, if the balconies were that dangerous, you would think more kids would get it...

 

[mogandave]

I reckon there is only one person that knows the answer to that question. Get her in a room and shine the hot bright lights on her! 

Not if they are being truthful, and I have no reason not to believe them.

Apparently you do?

[Jingthing]

To add, I'm 100 percent for LGBT civil rights in Thailand and everywhere. I think transgender people in general deserve respect and deserve to be addressed in the ways they prefer based on their gender identity.

 

HOWEVER, suspected murderers are suspected murderers, regardless of anything else about them. 

 

Anyone in that situation of a sexual pickup (and possibly a commercial one) regardless of sexes or identities would instantly be a prime suspect.

 

Doesn't mean she did it but does mean suspicion is totally legit. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Not if they are being truthful, and I have no reason not to believe them.

Apparently you do?

 

Not sure what you're saying. Who is they? 

In any case, unless I've missed some news, I've heard nothing yet that would make me conclude that the condo resident is guilty or not guilty. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[mogandave]

Not sure what you're saying. Who is they? 
In any case, unless I've missed some news, I've heard nothing yet that would make me conclude that the condo resident is guilty or not guilty. 

They is the condo resident...

[mogandave]

To add, I'm 100 percent for LGBT civil rights in Thailand and everywhere. I think transgender people in general deserve respect and deserve to be addressed in the ways they prefer based on their gender identity.
 
HOWEVER, suspected murderers are suspected murderers, regardless of anything else about them. 
 
Anyone in that situation of a sexual pickup (and possibly a commercial one) regardless of sexes or identities would instantly be a prime suspect.
 
Doesn't mean she did it but does mean suspicion is totally legit. 

How would any of us know how this particular ladyboy prefers to be addressed?

I assume anyone in, around or associated with the property or the victim would be prime suspects.

The ladyboy claims to have been in the bathroom, if that is true, the ladyboy would not know what happened.

Again, given the ages, it could well have been the Dutchman that was “working”.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

How would any of us know how this particular ladyboy prefers to be addressed?

I assume anyone in, around or associated with the property or the victim would be prime suspects.

The ladyboy claims to have been in the bathroom, if that is true, the ladyboy would not know what happened.

Again, given the ages, it could well have been the Dutchman that was “working”.

 

OK.

First of all, to me this is a tragic mysterious death, possibly a crime story. 

Secondly, how we address the condo resident is trivial compared to the news event so enough about that. If people insist on calling her a he, I don't really care even though I assume that person probably prefers she. It's trivial compared to a death!

The condo resident claims to have been in the bathroom.

Do I believe her?

No, and I don't not believe her either.

I feel the circumstances of this meeting merit investigation to look at the possibility of murder.

I totally agree, we don't know whether it was a commercial arrangement or not and who was supposed to pay, if so.

That's part of what should be investigated, because there was a death and they were strangers beforehand.

Common sense would show in general it was either an accident or a murder after a conflict.

I don't know which. I think the family deserves justice at least to the point of it being investigated as a possible murder. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Another reason to rule out suicide which someone mentioned here as a possibility.

This young man meets a stranger for sex. 

Why would he choose that time for suicide?

He would know the new stranger would be a suspect. 

Why would anyone hate a newly met person so much they would do that to them?

Also, it wasn't a very high floor.

A person that really wants to jump can easily find a higher floor building here and sneak in for access. 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

On 30/04/2018 at 10:32 AM, orchis said:

fell from the balcony. learn to read.

Of course there are politer ways of enlightening a reader than the way you chose to do it, although I note that several posters  seem to think that you expressed yourself quite well.

[mogandave]

Another reason to rule out suicide which someone mentioned here as a possibility.
This young man meets a stranger for sex. 
Why would he choose that time for suicide?
He would know the new stranger would be a suspect. 
Why would anyone hate a newly met person so much they would do that to them?
Also, it wasn't a very high floor.
A person that really wants to jump can easily find a higher floor building here and sneak in for access. 

We don’t know that they weren’t strangers.

But if the Dutchman were a heterosexual drug attic selling his a** for the first time to a ladyboy 20 years his senior, I could see how he might have been a little down.

You could make a stronger semi low-floor argument against murder. If you throw someone over a balcony and they do not die immediately, things get complicated.

If you throw yourself over a balcony and don’t die, you’d get all manner of sympathy and whatnot.

Drunk sitting on a ledge for a smoke and toppling makes sense, but do we know he was drunk?

[Jingthing]

Huh?

Yeah, I'm assuming it was a hookup as he was a tourist.

So that means they were probably strangers to each other before meeting.

Your other stuff too bizarre to process. 

This isn't rocket science.

In any country in the world this kind of scenario would make the survivor an instant suspect. That doesn't mean she did it. That doesn't mean they'll be able to prove it if she did it. All I'm saying is that it's perfectly reasonable to suspect her and carry out an investigation. I'm not suggesting she should be convicted if they can't prove anything against her. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[mogandave]

Huh?
Yeah, I'm assuming it was a hookup as he was a tourist.
So that means they were probably strangers to each other before meeting.
Your other stuff too bizarre to process. 

I know, it must be a struggle for you...

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

I know, it must be a struggle for you...

 

The real struggle is taking you seriously. I don't even believe you think suicide is likely in this case. It feels like you're playing. Sorry, that's how I feel, so probably best to ignore each other on this topic. 

[mogandave]

The real struggle is taking you seriously. I don't even believe you think suicide is likely in this case. It feels like you're playing. Sorry, that's how I feel, so probably best to ignore each other on this topic. 

I think it’s more likely than murder...perhaps less likely than an accident, assisted or otherwise.

Murder would be more likely were it his pad, or a hotel, but why would the ladyboy take him home to kill him? Minimal upside potential and significant downside.

[The manic]

On 4/30/2018 at 11:21 AM, JaVaCa said:

Strange that so many people fall from a window. That can not only be related to the climatechange!

Railings are too low

[ravip]

On 30/04/2018 at 12:32 PM, seancbk said:

 

I'm 6' 1" and I've never seen a balcony railing in Bangkok that was at waist height on me, they are always at least up to my stomach.  

I'd love to see photographic evidence of all these super low railings people keep claiming to see.

 

 

Maybe your stomach is low :-P

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 4/30/2018 at 10:21 AM, JaVaCa said:

Strange that so many people fall from a window.

 

The OP article doesn't say the victim fell from a window. It says he fell from the balcony of the condo.

 

Quote

When he came out, he found the balcony door open and the foreigner missing.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In these kinds of cases, I always wonder if the guy goes out (spends the last minutes of his life) thinking he's going to score with an attractive Thai woman, or the reality, thinking he was going score with a upper 30s Thai guy with a lot of makeup.

 

Given that the victim was a young tourist, I'd bet on the former more than the latter. But obviously it could have gone either way.

 

[Jingthing]

It's hard to say whether the Dutchman was aware he was going with a ladyboy. Many (mostly straight identified) tourists want to try that out. I'd say more likely than not that he did know. It's like a tourist attraction. Years ago I was contacted by a Japanese tourist visiting San Francisco that claimed to be straight, but felt it was part of the San Francisco tourist experience to do some gay stuff. Thailand and ladyboys is definitely like that. Tourists try that here and wouldn't at home. Much is made about the age difference. It's not so big. It's not unusual at all for people in their 30's to be attractive to young men. It would think it's a bigger aspect if the condo resident was in her 60s. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[BangkokBloke]

I shagged a ladyboy out of pure curiosity many years ago and being attracted to the taboo aspect of it while I was drunk. I wasn't attracted to the man parts or anything, just the fact that it was taboo and that I find their mannerisms attractive as they act more feminine than women sometimes. Consider myself straight but found myself on ladyboy porn sites before I arrived somehow and the interest grew and I wanted to try it. Like a temporary fetish but not my actual sexuality. I immediately felt guilty and disgusted with myself once I sobered up and this feeling continued for weeks after. I just remember riding on a train the next day completely sober and wanting to kill myself because of this feeling I had about what I had done. It was the worst feeling in the world. Not a religious person at all but was raised in a Christian country by Christian parents and I just remember feeling like I was going to go to hell for what I did and feeling like I somehow did the worst imaginable thing I could think of. If I were drunk when feeling that feeling, I may have killed myself right then and there.

 

So it's possible this guy was an innocent victim who was thrown to his death, or it's possible he acted on a curiosity/fetish he may have had for awhile and it wasn't the feeling he thought it'd be and overreacted due to being drunk. Who knows. It's all speculation and speculation is a waste of time without evidence of anything.

Edited May 1, 2018 by BangkokBloke

[Jingthing]

Yes, who knows. Nobody here!

Hopefully the police are pursuing this and they might be able to know.

But more likely there won't be enough evidence to conclude anything and it will need to be called accidental. 

I do think an accidental fall is more likely than murder, but I wouldn't immediately rule out murder. Obviously not premeditated. Could have been a fight and things got out hand so that's more like an accidental murder. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Jingthing

[jvs]

I just read an article in Dutch,the deceased was with a friend of his

for a weeks holiday.They both met someone and they went to different locations.

After the alleged accident happened the ladyboy immediatly called her girlfriend who was with Riks friend.

His friend totally freaked out and was taken to the police station.

According to the police they found Riks shoe marks on the aircon compressor.They do not suspect foul play.

[Jingthing]

Thanks. That does sounds like a major clue but I can't understand why it would be conclusive of what happened. 

[jvs]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Thanks. That does sounds like a major clue but I can't understand why it would be conclusive of what happened. 

I don't think the investigation is concluded yet,no mention of that.

 

[Voodoochile]

2 hours ago, BangkokBloke said:

I shagged a ladyboy out of pure curiosity many years ago and being attracted to the taboo aspect of it while I was drunk. I wasn't attracted to the man parts or anything, just the fact that it was taboo and that I find their mannerisms attractive as they act more feminine than women sometimes. Consider myself straight but found myself on ladyboy porn sites before I arrived somehow and the interest grew and I wanted to try it. Like a temporary fetish but not my actual sexuality. I immediately felt guilty and disgusted with myself once I sobered up and this feeling continued for weeks after. I just remember riding on a train the next day completely sober and wanting to kill myself because of this feeling I had about what I had done. It was the worst feeling in the world. Not a religious person at all but was raised in a Christian country by Christian parents and I just remember feeling like I was going to go to hell for what I did and feeling like I somehow did the worst imaginable thing I could think of. If I were drunk when feeling that feeling, I may have killed myself right then and there.

 

So it's possible this guy was an innocent victim who was thrown to his death, or it's possible he acted on a curiosity/fetish he may have had for awhile and it wasn't the feeling he thought it'd be and overreacted due to being drunk. Who knows. It's all speculation and speculation is a waste of time without evidence of anything.

Youz be a nasty man for sure.

 

as for you being gay....

well even If you eat meat only once à month you ain't no vegitarian 

[lamyai3]

5 hours ago, BangkokBloke said:

I just remember riding on a train the next day completely sober and wanting to kill myself because of this feeling I had about what I had done.

Trundling along the tracks quite happily and enjoying the scenery, until all of a sudden the train entered the tunnel... 

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, jvs said:

I just read an article in Dutch,the deceased was with a friend of his

for a weeks holiday.They both met someone and they went to different locations.

After the alleged accident happened the ladyboy immediatly called her girlfriend who was with Riks friend.

His friend totally freaked out and was taken to the police station.

According to the police they found Riks shoe marks on the aircon compressor.They do not suspect foul play.

It's no doubt easy to get other witnesses to corroborate how much he'd been drinking earlier. Occam's razor surely applies here, certainly not in the ladyboy's interest to push anyone off her own balcony! Probably been drinking cocktail buckets if it had been in Khaosan, maybe went out on the balcony for air or a ciggy if he was really plastered.

[watcharacters]

On 4/30/2018 at 8:00 PM, JAZZDOG said:

I am assuming this ladyboy was a sex worker. Might be wrong but statistically speaking a strong possibility. Seems to me in the vast majority of these falling cases it is the customer flying. Cant recall a case where the sex worker fell and the falang was in the bathroom madding his/her own business.

Just to refresh your memory, there was such a case fairly  recently where the lady fell from a balcony in the Pratunak area not far from the ocean.