Standard soda water in Thailand -- is it seltzer or club soda?

[Jip99]

37 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

But the cost of serving, rent, washing-up don’t vary with the input cost of the material being served; they are constant per drink served, so a 40b beer might attract 60b of overhead, and so would a 10b soda water.

 

There might be more incentive to mark down the beer, as it gives you a thirst, and it is a more competitive market.

 

The only reason to mark down the soda water would be to avoid exposing your staff to miserable grizzling, but in the long term, it might be better to maintain the margins, reduce the volume and get rid of the cheapskates

 

 

Beer s cheaper in Pattaya than my local rural Tha restaurant.

 

Soda is 2x or even 3x the price in some Pattaya bars.

 

 

Anyone want to introduce the word “greed” into the equation.

 

 

Merket tolerance can be substituted if “greed” offends.

[farcanell]

37 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

But the cost of serving, rent, washing-up don’t vary with the input cost of the material being served; they are constant per drink served, so a 40b beer might attract 60b of overhead, and so would a 10b soda water.

 

There might be more incentive to mark down the beer, as it gives you a thirst, and it is a more competitive market.

 

The only reason to mark down the soda water would be to avoid exposing your staff to miserable grizzling, but in the long term, it might be better to maintain the margins, reduce the volume and get rid of the cheapskates

Lol..... I bet that they won’t charge 60 baht extra on a 3000 baht bottle of champers.... A flat rate surcharge regardless of type of beverage, is great, and I’m all for that, but... that just doesn’t happen, nor is it a good business model, imo, although if it did/was, selling the soda water vs the Champaign, is obviously the best way forward regards a business model

 

and... I’m not suggesting marking down the water... the suggestion is to apply the same percentage of profit as is applied to other products (fair trading... another not so thai concept)

 

and cheapskates... yep... there’s the problem. Why complain about paying four times an items value... stupid, right? I do that with true vision.... stupid stupid stupid!

[Damrongsak]

Informative article about carbonated water, sparkling water, bubbly water, fizzy water, seltzer , club soda, soda water and mineral water:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/05/14/carbonated_waters_defined_what_are_seltzer_club_soda_soda_water_perrier.html

 

 

 

 

[Damrongsak]

It would be interesting to check the pH of different waters.  I'm guessing Club Soda may have a higher pH than plain soda water due to additional ingredients.  Anyone have a pool pH test kit?

 

As for natural carbonated water, check out Lake Nyos.  In 1986, it burped.  The CO2 killed 1,746 peopleand 3,500 livestock in nearby towns and villages.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos

Edited May 1, 2018 by Damrongsak

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Damrongsak said:

Informative article about carbonated water, sparkling water, bubbly water, fizzy water, seltzer , club soda, soda water and mineral water:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/05/14/carbonated_waters_defined_what_are_seltzer_club_soda_soda_water_perrier.html

 

Yes, I saw that article as well when perusing the subject. But the limitation on it is it's just defining what general terms are supposed to mean, and then giving a few specific non-Thai brand examples.

 

But unfortunately, what any given Thai bottler puts into a bottle and labels in some fashion may or may not match up with the definitions recounted in the Slate article. And without any labeling requirement for things like salts and minerals, how's anyone here going to know?

 

Of course, it's not only Thailand where the description on the label may or may not match up with reality:

 

Quote

 

‘Not one drop’ of Poland Spring bottled water is from a spring, lawsuit claims
 

Poland Spring, the country’s best-selling bottled water, is “a colossal fraud,” according to a class-action lawsuit.

The lawsuit, filed last week in Connecticut, alleges that instead of spring water, parent company Nestle Water North America has been selling billions of gallons of groundwater to its customers.

“Not one drop of Poland Spring Water emanates from a water source that complies with the Food and Drug Administration definition of ‘spring water,'” the lawsuit states.

And, it goes on: “the famous Poland Spring in Poland Spring, Maine, which defendant’s labels claim is a source of Poland Spring Water, ran dry nearly 50 years ago.”

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/08/22/not-one-drop-of-poland-spring-bottled-water-is-from-a-spring-lawsuit-claims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6e3cb2c17f94

 

PS -  I happen to have a 1.5 liter bottle of regular Singha drinking water sitting here at home, and there's absolutely zero contents/nutrition labeling info on the bottle.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[StreetCowboy]

4 hours ago, farcanell said:

Lol..... I bet that they won’t charge 60 baht extra on a 3000 baht bottle of champers.... A flat rate surcharge regardless of type of beverage, is great, and I’m all for that, but... that just doesn’t happen, nor is it a good business model, imo, although if it did/was, selling the soda water vs the Champaign, is obviously the best way forward regards a business model

 

and... I’m not suggesting marking down the water... the suggestion is to apply the same percentage of profit as is applied to other products (fair trading... another not so thai concept)

 

and cheapskates... yep... there’s the problem. Why complain about paying four times an items value... stupid, right? I do that with true vision.... stupid stupid stupid!

I think most bars know more about pricing than you or I do, and they operate in a very competitive environment, so that you get the price that they feel your custom is worth,  That might be distressing for the 20B Water boys who are asked to pay 50b..  I think actually a lot bars undercharge for water, for whatever reason.

 

[tutsiwarrior]

seltzer useta be dispensed from siphons...the same kind you'd see in old slapstick movies that the actors would use to to squirt one another...

 

when I was living in Venice, CA 40 years ago there was an old guy named Sol with a heavy NYC accent that would sell seltzer in the old siphons outta his ancient beer delivery truck and you'd return the bottles for him to refill them...they were his siphon bottles and they were genuine antiques...

 

that was genuine seltzer and club soda doesn't taste the same...simply filtered carbonated water with no added minerals...

 

my favorite tipple: in a tall glass fulla ice vodka with sparkling water and a splash of grapefruit juice...these days use any thai soda water and a squirt of naam manao...

 

in saudi when I got home from work any available soda water and a splash of Tropicana pink grapefruit juice would do and then pretend that there was vodka in it...placebo sorta like...

 

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by tutsiwarrior

[jacko45k]

On 30/04/2018 at 11:46 PM, StreetCowboy said:

How do you reckon the cost for soda water is much less than beer?

Do you use less glasses?

Do the bottles take up less space, need less refrigeration?  

Maybe there are economies of scale - are you more likely to knock back six pints and go on to the hard stuff drinking soda water?

Well a case of beer cost me a few coppers under 1000 baht yesterday and a case of sodas abour 140 baht.

 

Beer at sunset, a cold soda on a hot afternoon... very occasionally with a M150 or Lippo in it.

Edited May 1, 2018 by jacko45k

[Dap]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Standard soda water in Thailand is not Schweppes. More like Chang soda water. I'm assuming now it has some chemicals and is not "pure" like seltzer (as per the terms outlined in the article in the OP). 

Oops, my error. The yellow can is tonic water and not soda water. A thousand pardons.

[rwill]

https://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/singha-soda-water-46308874

 

Singha soda water has no sodium or potassium in it.  So it is just plain carbonated water.

 

[wump]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

PS -  I happen to have a 1.5 liter bottle of regular Singha drinking water sitting here at home, and there's absolutely zero contents/nutrition labeling info on the bottle.

 

How does this come as a surprise? Any water not specifically labelled as mineral water is just filtered tap water, one on the biggest scams in history in terms of profits, marketing and waste.
And what do you need a label for? So it can show 0% everywhere? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, wump said:

And what do you need a label for? So it can show 0% everywhere? 

 

Yes, thats exactly the point.

 

When buying water, you should have the right to know is it's pure, minerals added, how much salt if any, etc etc.

[Jingthing]

I think the levels of an added chemical may be so small that manufacturers may not even be legally required to list it.

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[Jingthing]

Oops, my error. The yellow can is tonic water and not soda water. A thousand pardons.

Yes of course everyone should be able to easily taste the difference between tonic water and seltzer or soda water as per the definitions from the OP.

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[wgdanson]

On planes, you get a plastic cup of water which says PURE BOTTLED WATER. 1. It ain't bottled and 2. If you read the 'ingredients' there are minerals and stuff in it so not PURE. Why not just say WATER.

Edited May 2, 2018 by wgdanson

[The manic]

On 5/1/2018 at 1:40 PM, Jingthing said:

No. Not talking about bars and if I went I would order beer anyway there.  You don't understand what I am talking about. Not complaining at all about a standard restaurant markup. Complaining about a distorted ratio markup of waters relative to beer.   

 

For example here is a normal mid level restaurant pricing. Nothing to complain it with that.

 

Water 30

Soda Water 40

Tiger 80

 

Here is cynical manipulation also mid level restaurant pricing.

 

Water 55

Soda Water 65

Tiger 80

 

Everyone knows the ratio is out of whack on that just by seeing prices at 7 11.

 

Such prices obviously encourage more people to order beer than really want it because it seems stupid to pay almost as much for water as beer. I don't like being engineered like that.

 

Also not talking about high end and fancy hotel restaurants. People expect to be extorted for everything there. Talking about more everyday level of midrange restaurants.

 

Low end places generally don't play such games.

 

 

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Staff costs, fresh produce, wages, training, insurance, building maintenance costs, laundry, energy prices,cleaning plus making a profit etcetc. Pointless comparing prices to 7/11.Perhaps the mark ups on beers should be more!  A few restaurant owners on Trip Advisor address this issue. I believe in the UK staff have to offer tap water as a choice when offering bottled water.

[Jingthing]

Oh please. I'm not objecting to markups. I've already made it clear it's about the obvious discrepancy in LEVEL of markup, beer vs. water, in a minority of middle level restaurants. When I see that, I take note. Sometimes I cave to their game and order a beer when I don't really want it. More often then not I boycott the restaurant unless their food is really good (or found nowhere else). They have the power to play games like that. Customers have the power to tell them to take a hike!

[Acemaker]

On 5/1/2018 at 12:40 PM, Jingthing said:

No. Not talking about bars and if I went I would order beer anyway there.  You don't understand what I am talking about. Not complaining at all about a standard restaurant markup. Complaining about a distorted ratio markup of waters relative to beer.   

 

For example here is a normal mid level restaurant pricing. Nothing to complain it with that.

 

Water 30

Soda Water 40

Tiger 80

 

Here is cynical manipulation also mid level restaurant pricing.

 

Water 55

Soda Water 65

Tiger 80

 

Everyone knows the ratio is out of whack on that just by seeing prices at 7 11.

 

Such prices obviously encourage more people to order beer than really want it because it seems stupid to pay almost as much for water as beer. I don't like being engineered like that.

 

Also not talking about high end and fancy hotel restaurants. People expect to be extorted for everything there. Talking about more everyday level of midrange restaurants.

 

Low end places generally don't play such games.

 

 

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I just think you like complaining , you need to get out more, such a Bloody boring Topic, Sheesh.  

[Fruit Trader]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh please. I'm not objecting to markups. I've already made it clear it's about the obvious discrepancy in LEVEL of markup, beer vs. water, in a minority of middle level restaurants. When I see that, I take note. Sometimes I cave to their game and order a beer when I don't really want it. More often then not I boycott the restaurant unless their food is really good (or found nowhere else). They have the power to play games like that. Customers have the power to tell them to take a hike!

I can see your concerns over the out of balance soda mark-up when compared to that on a beer. We hit local eateries with our own whiskey and pay max 15 Baht mark-up on a 7 Baht soda.  Maybe in tourist areas they add an additional Cheap Charlie tax.

 

Not sure about all these fancy fizzy water names, its all carbonated water to me. First discovered by the Romans while farting in the tub and enjoying the slightly acidic surface effervescence.

[The manic]

Just now, Fruit Trader said:

I can see your concerns over the out of balance soda mark-up when compared to that on a beer. We hit local eateries with our own whiskey and pay max 15 Baht mark-up on a 7 Baht soda.  Maybe in tourist areas they add an additional Cheap Charlie tax.

 

Not sure about all these fancy fizzy water names, its all carbonated water to me. First discovered by the Romans while farting in the tub and enjoying the slightly acidic surface effervescence.

Are the local eateries you hit in Pattaya or Bangkok? I follow the BYOB system but only up country especially in Issan.

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Acemaker said:

I just think you like complaining , you need to get out more, such a Bloody boring Topic, Sheesh.  

I have no interest in reading moronic personal insults.

The topic is the topic. If you're interested, post here. If not, go away.

Goodbye.

[The manic]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I have no interest in reading moronic personal insults.

The topic is the topic. If you're interested, post here. If not, go away.

Goodbye.

Wine mark ups are high.

[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

Are the local eateries you hit in Pattaya or Bangkok? I follow the BYOB system but only up country especially in Issan.

 

We mostly eat around Si Racha, closest to Pattaya would be Moo 1 Nongprue and Baan Amphur. I rarely visit Bangkok.

 

A few restaurants will charge a fee for bringing your own drink which can be up to 200 Baht. This depends on how well you know the owner.

 

Most of the popular Thai restaurants with live music and crap food always charge a fee if you bring your own drink.

[stephenterry]

On 5/1/2018 at 6:32 PM, owenm said:

Surprisingly my wife wanted me to buy a pack of 24 soda water from Big C last week for her whisky, and they wouldn't sell it before midday, same as alcohol.. The checkout assistant wanted to wait 2 minutes until 12pm before she was permitted to sell it.. Very weird for a non alcoholic carbonised water.. Has anyone else had the same experience?? No, we didn't purchase any alcohol that day.. 

 

Stores (as are restaurants) are legally entitled to sell alcohol from 11am to 2pm - not from midday, and from 5pm. As soda is not an alcoholic beverage there is no reason to refuse to sell it at any time. I would have gone to the BigC customer counter to explain that they need to update their cashiers.

 

[stephenterry]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Oh please. I'm not objecting to markups. I've already made it clear it's about the obvious discrepancy in LEVEL of markup, beer vs. water, in a minority of middle level restaurants. When I see that, I take note. Sometimes I cave to their game and order a beer when I don't really want it. More often then not I boycott the restaurant unless their food is really good (or found nowhere else). They have the power to play games like that. Customers have the power to tell them to take a hike!

I agree completely. I'm sure restaurants up their prices on water, soda and soft drinks because most women drink these, and the man will not make a fuss by complaining, as he will be regarded as a cheap charlie. Nor will a group of women complain.

 

I hate all these underhand tricks, especially when bars (mostly) pack my glass with ice, top up with soda and leave the remainder of the bottle under the counter for my request for a refill and an additional price tab. 

 

Fortunately my most frequented bar only charges me 20 baht for a soda. But otherwise, that's the price I pay for going out and having a craic.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by stephenterry
correction

[wump]

53 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I hate all these underhand tricks, especially when bars (mostly) pack my glass with ice, top up with soda and leave the remainder of the bottle under the counter for my request for a refill and an additional price tab. 

I am a big soda drinker and in all of Thailand I have never seen anyone being charged for a soft drink or water and not receiving a whole container. Are you sure you are not making this up or mixing it up with longdrinks/cocktails?

[PoorSucker]

On 5/1/2018 at 12:44 PM, Jingthing said:

I'm disappointed.. No water nerds here?

Last year the had this wonderful lightly carbonated water with lemon, apple and peach taste in 7-11.

15 baht for bottles produced by Pepsi and 10 baht produced by Big.

 

Unfortunately they have gone now.

I drove around Samui and bought up all the Big brand when the put it on sale for 5 Baht.

I really miss them.

 

They have a 330 bottle on FamilyMart now, but for 18 baht, the other ones were 50 cl.

 

Soda water is only sooodaa.

[PoorSucker]

When I went to collage in the US, they had Diet mineral water for sale. 

Fun times. 

[stephenterry]

22 hours ago, wump said:

I am a big soda drinker and in all of Thailand I have never seen anyone being charged for a soft drink or water and not receiving a whole container. Are you sure you are not making this up or mixing it up with longdrinks/cocktails?

It's happened to me, and not happened to you, so that's a 1-1 draw then. 

[elgenon]

On 5/1/2018 at 12:40 PM, Jingthing said:

No. Not talking about bars and if I went I would order beer anyway there.  You don't understand what I am talking about. Not complaining at all about a standard restaurant markup. Complaining about a distorted ratio markup of waters relative to beer.   

 

For example here is a normal mid level restaurant pricing. Nothing to complain it with that.

 

Water 30

Soda Water 40

Tiger 80

 

Here is cynical manipulation also mid level restaurant pricing.

 

Water 55

Soda Water 65

Tiger 80

 

Everyone knows the ratio is out of whack on that just by seeing prices at 7 11.

 

Such prices obviously encourage more people to order beer than really want it because it seems stupid to pay almost as much for water as beer. I don't like being engineered like that.

 

Also not talking about high end and fancy hotel restaurants. People expect to be extorted for everything there. Talking about more everyday level of midrange restaurants.

 

Low end places generally don't play such games.

 

 

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Why look at ratios? They charge more at fancier places because you are not buying liquor and they feel the need to get more of a similar amount for the other options. You are taking up space that a drinker could occupy. IMHO