ACH Payment to BKB NY

[bhatmasterson]

I've been trying to do an ACH payment from my domestic bank in the US to BKB in NY. The first time I was unable to receive the two small payments needed to verify my account at BKB. My bank told me that they received a message that the account did not exist which is strange since I've had the account for about 12 years.

 

I know I won't' be able to see these payments using the online banking system from BKB so I have called the bank to have them check and they saw no deposits. I've tried again 5 days ago and I'm still waiting. A call to the bank today revealed no deposits. Has anyone else had a problem with this.  

 

Thanks

 

[Jingthing]

Something is messed up there.

When I did it I recall I did see the deposits in baht but you need to call BB customer service in Thailand to get the amount in exact cents so you can verify the link with the U.S. bank.

But you have a real disconnect there is there were no test deposits.

 

[bhatmasterson]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Something is messed up there.

When I did it I recall I did see the deposits in baht but you need to call BB customer service in Thailand to get the amount in exact cents so you can verify the link with the U.S. bank.

But you have a real disconnect there is there were no test deposits.

 

Exactly. Bank in LA tells me the two small deposits were sent and Bangkok Bank tells me there's nothing. Waiting for the bank in LA to open now. Real pain!!!

 

[NancyL]

Actually, you're not sending the money to Bangkok Bank NYC, but to your account here in Thailand, using the routing number of BB NYC.  You should be using the ACH transfer function of the online banking function of your U.S. bank.  Not every U.S. financial institution supports ACH transfers.  If you're using online bill-pay and sending and electronic payment to Bangkok Bank NYC, then they won't accept it and won't credit it to your local Bangkok Bank account.  My credit union uses the term "interbank transfer" to describe ACH transfers and "online bill payment" to describe electronic bill payment, which Bangkok Bank NYC won't accept.  One clue is if you're actually inputting the address of Bangkok Bank NYC -- that means you aren't doing an ACH transfer, but are doing an online bill payment and Bangkok Bank NYC won't know what to do with the money they receive.

 

Another problem could be if you're trying to transfer into your Bangkok Bank foreign currency account.  Those accounts have too many digits to be accommodated by the ACH system.  I can't remember the details, but when I set up for transfer from my U.S. credit union to my Bangkok Bank U.S. dollar account, the local Bangkok Bank asst. manager had to help me lop off some initial digits from the USD account number.  Apparent the leading digits just describe the currency, and country of origin and other really evident stuff, so he said they could be left off for an ACH transfer.  

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

I solved this "test" deposit problem by signing up for Bangkok Bank's SMS alert service, that gave me the exact amount in US cents deposited as test deposits

 

If you are lucky, many US banks waive the test deposit if they are aware that transfers will only go into the BB Account, not out of the BB account

[Pib]

OP,

   Make sure you are using the "account" number and not the passbook number for the account number. 

 

    Below is just a Bangkok Bank passbook snapshot I googled up.  Your 10 digit account number is in the upper right hand corner of your passbook...the Yes number I circled.   The passbook number is the lower middle bottom...the No number I circled...be sure you are not using the passbook number.   

 

   And the Bangkok Bank NY ACH/ABA routing number to use is 026008691.

 

  I've lost track the number of trial transfers I've done over the last decade to my Bangkok Bank accounts from my US banks as I added/updated ACH transfer links in my US banks ibanking.   The test transfers have always arrived within a few days.

   

 

[bhatmasterson]

On 5/3/2018 at 10:35 PM, Langsuan Man said:

I solved this "test" deposit problem by signing up for Bangkok Bank's SMS alert service, that gave me the exact amount in US cents deposited as test deposits

 

If you are lucky, many US banks waive the test deposit if they are aware that transfers will only go into the BB Account, not out of the BB account

Was meaning to do an update post.

I found out the problem is that my US bank account uses only my middle initial in my name, whereas BK Bank uses my entire name. I'm now trying to get the two banks to agree to let the transfer go through. Tough to do because I'm in Thailand until at least December and the US bank is so afraid of fraud that they are giving me a very difficult time.

[bhatmasterson]

16 minutes ago, bhatmasterson said:

Was meaning to do an update post.

I found out the problem is that my US bank account uses only my middle initial in my name, whereas BK Bank uses my entire name. I'm now trying to get the two banks to agree to let the transfer go through. Tough to do because I'm in Thailand until at least December and the US bank is so afraid of fraud that they are giving me a very difficult time.

Thanks for the info about the SMS service. Just registered by phone. The very easy process can be found here for anyone else interested. http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/SMSAlerts/Pages/SMSRemittanceAlert.aspx 

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, bhatmasterson said:

Was meaning to do an update post.

I found out the problem is that my US bank account uses only my middle initial in my name, whereas BK Bank uses my entire name. I'm now trying to get the two banks to agree to let the transfer go through. Tough to do because I'm in Thailand until at least December and the US bank is so afraid of fraud that they are giving me a very difficult time.

Are you sure you're doing an ACH transfer and not a wire transfer? Two different animals.

 

I regularly ACH transfer from a U.S. account that is solely in my name, with just a middle initial into a Bangkok Bank account that lists both my husband and I as joint owners, with our complete middle name.  No problem.  

 

You can ACH transfer into ANY account provided you have the routing number and account number for the receiving account.  It doesn't matter what name is listed on the receiving account.  I use this ACH transfer feature to pay other bills in the U.S., too, not just to transfer money to ourselves in Thailand.

[bhatmasterson]

Just now, NancyL said:

Are you sure you're doing an ACH transfer and not a wire transfer? Two different animals.

 

I regularly ACH transfer from a U.S. account that is solely in my name, with just a middle initial into a Bangkok Bank account that lists both my husband and I as joint owners, with our complete middle name.  No problem.  

ACH Transfer. My US bank has an "ACH" expert, or so they claim. 

[NancyL]

Could I ask what is the name of the U.S. bank with the problem?

 

As for the bank saying that Bangkok Bank claims they can't locate the account, I had this same problem when I first set up our Bangkok Bank USD account to receive deposits from our U.S. credit union.  The first two attempts at ACH transfer were "sent back" by Bangkok Bank NYC, saying they couldn't locate the account.  That's because the Bangkok Bank foreign currency accounts have a gizillion digits, way more than normal accounts.  My local BB branch was able to guide me about lopping off the first group of digits from the account number when setting them up for ACH transfer via my U.S. credit union's online banking.  The first sets of numbers for a BB foreign currency account simply identify the nationality of the account holder and the currency of the account.  They can be left off and Bangkok Bank NYC can figure how to credit the money they receive.

[Pib]

7 hours ago, bhatmasterson said:

Was meaning to do an update post.

I found out the problem is that my US bank account uses only my middle initial in my name, whereas BK Bank uses my entire name. I'm now trying to get the two banks to agree to let the transfer go through. Tough to do because I'm in Thailand until at least December and the US bank is so afraid of fraud that they are giving me a very difficult time.

Just using your middle initial such as John Q. Public is not the problem...at least on the Bangkok Bank end.   

 

Several of my US banks utilize my middle initial and several do not (i.e., no middle initial or middle name). 

 

As you said, Bangkok Bank utilizes a person full name to include spelling out their middle name.   

 

But none of these middle name/initial differences between my US banks and Bangkok Bank have ever caused a transfer to be rejected. 

 

Now I guess there is the possibility of your US bank/credit union is being anal about the transfer method you are using.  What bank is it?

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Pib

[bhatmasterson]

On 5/6/2018 at 5:17 PM, Pib said:

Just using your middle initial such as John Q. Public is not the problem...at least on the Bangkok Bank end.   

 

Several of my US banks utilize my middle initial and several do not (i.e., no middle initial or middle name). 

 

As you said, Bangkok Bank utilizes a person full name to include spelling out their middle name.   

 

But none of these middle name/initial differences between my US banks and Bangkok Bank have ever caused a transfer to be rejected. 

 

Now I guess there is the possibility of your US bank/credit union is being anal about the transfer method you are using.  What bank is it?

 

 

That is exactly the problem "Us bank being anal". Both meanings apply. They say fraud is so prevalent that I would have to come in to the bank to change the middle initial to my full name. BKB NY can confirm that they have received the test deposits and sent them back for the reason I've previously stated here.

 

Here's the latest from BKB NY:

 

Dear ******

I first would like to apologize for the inconvenience cause when transferring your trial deposit amounts.

The trial deposit should have the name and account as it is on your account in Thailand.

However, if your bank if unable to indicate your name, we will contact our Head Office and request them to accept those transaction with account number only.

Kindly request your bank to resend trial deposits so we can request the branch to accept those transactions.

Please inform me when you set up those amounts so I can look out for them.

Regards

*************

I've retried the test deposits 3 days ago. As of today nothing in the account.

[Pib]

I'm assuming where you say Bangkok Bank has confirmed they rec'd the deposit and sent them back because of the name that response was in another piece of correspondence.  Because the above Bangkok Bank response you quote does really say that. 

 

Sure it says the your name and account number needs to be on the incoming trial deposit as it's on your account in Thailand, bit I really don't think that means you middle name must be included or only a middle initial isn't good enough.   If that was true I would have had many trail deposits and actual deposits rejected---but I haven't had any rejected. 

 

Have you asked what name appears the trial deposits your US bank is sending?  I don't mean what you US bank has on file but the actual name they are including in the transfer/deposit message to Bangkok Bank.   Maybe your US bank is shortening your name such as abbreviating your first name or even leaving the first name off which then causes enough of a name mismatch to make Bangkok Bank reject the deposit. 

 

I know for a fact some of my US banks send trial deposit without my middle initial and sometimes shorten the first name because in the past I got paper printout from my Bangkok Bank branch showing the trial deposit complete trek which even showed the middle man bank used.  On my Bangkok Bank accounts I have my full middle name.

 

[bhatmasterson]

Here is an update on what has transpired over the last two weeks concerning my ACH transfer situation.

 

Dear Valued Customer,

We have started the validation process for your external account.

1. Within 2-3 business days Broadway Federal Bank will initiate two nominal deposits and two withdrawals in the same amount into your external account.
2. Review your external account activity and record the exact amount of the two deposits.
3. Log into your Broadway Federal Bank online banking account, go to your External Accounts List and click "Verify" next to your pending account.
4. Enter the two deposit amounts. The amounts may be entered in any order.

You will have two weeks from the date of the test deposits to validate the account.

If the validation process has not been completed after two weeks, your pending external account activation will expire and you will need to start the validation process from the beginning.

Once you have activated your external account you can begin to schedule transfers.

If you have any questions or require assistance, please contact us at 1-310-412-3280 ext. 556.

Thank you,

Broadway Federal Bank Online Banking Team

 

Just when I thought I had solved the problem...then this:

 

Dear******

We received your 2  trial deposit.

However, we are unable to accept your deposits at this time. The 2 trial deposits will be return to your bank on May 16 2018.

As per our new procedure, all payments intended for Bangkok Bank Bangkok branches must be received in the IAT format (International ACH).

Kindly request your bank to resend funds to us using the correct IAT format. I believe once you use the correct format, your full name will be indicated on the transfer.

Hopefully your bank can resend those amounts as soon as possible.

Again  I regret any inconvenience and delay caused in transferring the funds.

*********

 

And then......

 

Good Afternoon:

Broadway Federal Bank does not originate International ACH Transfers.

Online Banking Center

 

 

 

 

[NancyL]

You can only transfer money into your Bangkok Bank account via ACH transfers.  You can make withdrawals and it seems that Broadway Federal Bank wants you to be able to withdraw money from your Bangkok Bank account using this channel.  It doesn't work that way.  

 

Also, it's pretty clear from the latest round of communications that Broadway Federal Bank isn't interested in doing international ACH transfers.  In looking at their website, they look like a small community bank.  This type of bank can be very good for older people who fit their target market, but sadly they probably don't have many customers who live internationally.

 

My U.S. "bank" is the credit union that serves the corporate HQ of a former employer, a Fortune 100 company.  It, too, is a small nimble organization, very customer-focused, but fortunately many of their customers are top executives of the Fortune 100 company who travel and work temporarily around the globe.  While it's been a long time since I worked in corporate America, I find the skills sets of the credit union staff works well for someone who is retired and living overseas.  The credit unions that serve military and former military personnel have the same type of skill sets and capabilities.

[bhatmasterson]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

You can only transfer money into your Bangkok Bank account via ACH transfers.  You can make withdrawals and it seems that Broadway Federal Bank wants you to be able to withdraw money from your Bangkok Bank account using this channel.  It doesn't work that way.  

 

Also, it's pretty clear from the latest round of communications that Broadway Federal Bank isn't interested in doing international ACH transfers.  In looking at their website, they look like a small community bank.  This type of bank can be very good for older people who fit their target market, but sadly they probably don't have many customers who live internationally.

 

My U.S. "bank" is the credit union that serves the corporate HQ of a former employer, a Fortune 100 company.  It, too, is a small nimble organization, very customer-focused, but fortunately many of their customers are top executives of the Fortune 100 company who travel and work temporarily around the globe.  While it's been a long time since I worked in corporate America, I find the skills sets of the credit union staff works well for someone who is retired and living overseas.  The credit unions that serve military and former military personnel have the same type of skill sets and capabilities.

Understood. But why do you think Bangkok Bank says this is new policy?

[NancyL]

13 hours ago, bhatmasterson said:

Understood. But why do you think Bangkok Bank says this is new policy?

Dunno.  I've been doing ACH transfers out of my U.S. credit union for ten years into Bangkok Bank and nothing has changed recently.

[Pib]

Ditto....have ACH transfer links setup to my Bangkok Bank accounts from multiple US banks.   And with all my lifetime account opening with US banks none of them use my full middle name...just my middle initial only reflecting on the account....and some don't even ask for your middle name.  Heck, I open a banking account with Capital One earlier this year....they only requested first and last names....no area on the application for you middle name/initial.

 

Plus, with the many, many, many US folks using ACH to transfer funds to their Bangkok Bank accounts over many years and also many, many US folks having their various govt pensions direct deposited from US govt agencies such as social security, military retirement, etc., for many years if their has truly been some recent policy change at Bangkok Bank I sure "this month" will be the month we start hearing the screams of many US folks as to why has my transfers stopped arriving/being rejected.   

 

As far as I know and for all my Bangkok Bank accounts and other Thai banks they always use your full name taken from your passport...if you passport shows your full middle name they that is what Bangkok Bank opens you account with.  They go by the name in your passport.   But I do remember a semi-recent post from a ThaiVisa member where his local Bangkok Bank branch only entered his first and middle name (not his last name) from his passport because he apparently had a long name that was bigger than the data fields...this was causing transfer problems for him. 

 

Anyway, time will tell, if there has truly been some very recent Bangkok Bank policy regarding transfer format which would surely start causing a lot of rejects from US bank transfers for many US folks. 

 

Where bhatmasterson pointed out in his latest reply from Bangkok Bank where they said "new procedure" and "International ACH format" I found interesting.   Partial quote below. Not sure if that reply was from Bangkok Bank here in Thailand or from the NY branch....sounds like it was from within Thailand but maybe not....maybe it was from the NY branch....maybe bhatmasterdson can clarify which Bangkok Bank location it came from?

Quote

As per our new procedure, all payments intended for Bangkok Bank Bangkok branches must be received in the IAT format (International ACH).

I didn't even know there was an "international" format...thought there was just one format used for "domestic" transfers.  In doing some googling on International ACH I found it not new....found documents taking it use and format that was dated 10 years ago.   And it don't seem to be so much the format but a little bit of additional information that needs to be included in the format like identifying where this is an international or domestic transfer.  And just because the funds may be going to a foreign country that does "not" necessarily mean its an international transfer if a domestic bank, such as the Bangkok Bank NY, branch was doing the actual settlement within the ACH system and then using an internal system to flow the funds to their subsidiary overseas.    More info here at NACHA that sets the rules for ACH transfers.

 

For right now until I see quite a few other US folks starting to get ACH transfer rejects, I'm going to stay on the side of the fence that there is just something different about how bhatmasterson's bank, which seems to be a small, local area bank, does its ACH transfers.

 

 

[bhatmasterson]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Ditto....have ACH transfer links setup to my Bangkok Bank accounts from multiple US banks.   And with all my lifetime account opening with US banks none of them use my full middle name...just my middle initial only reflecting on the account....and some don't even ask for your middle name.  Heck, I open a banking account with Capital One earlier this year....they only requested first and last names....no area on the application for you middle name/initial.

 

Plus, with the many, many, many US folks using ACH to transfer funds to their Bangkok Bank accounts over many years and also many, many US folks having their various govt pensions direct deposited from US govt agencies such as social security, military retirement, etc., for many years if their has truly been some recent policy change at Bangkok Bank I sure "this month" will be the month we start hearing the screams of many US folks as to why has my transfers stopped arriving/being rejected.   

 

As far as I know and for all my Bangkok Bank accounts and other Thai banks they always use your full name taken from your passport...if you passport shows your full middle name they that is what Bangkok Bank opens you account with.  They go by the name in your passport.   But I do remember a semi-recent post from a ThaiVisa member where his local Bangkok Bank branch only entered his first and middle name (not his last name) from his passport because he apparently had a long name that was bigger than the data fields...this was causing transfer problems for him. 

 

Anyway, time will tell, if there has truly been some very recent Bangkok Bank policy regarding transfer format which would surely start causing a lot of rejects from US bank transfers for many US folks. 

 

Where bhatmasterson pointed out in his latest reply from Bangkok Bank where they said "new procedure" and "International ACH format" I found interesting.   Partial quote below. Not sure if that reply was from Bangkok Bank here in Thailand or from the NY branch....sounds like it was from within Thailand but maybe not....maybe it was from the NY branch....maybe bhatmasterdson can clarify which Bangkok Bank location it came from?

I didn't even know there was an "international" format...thought there was just one format used for "domestic" transfers.  In doing some googling on International ACH I found it not new....found documents taking it use and format that was dated 10 years ago.   And it don't seem to be so much the format but a little bit of additional information that needs to be included in the format like identifying where this is an international or domestic transfer.  And just because the funds may be going to a foreign country that does "not" necessarily mean its an international transfer if a domestic bank, such as the Bangkok Bank NY, branch was doing the actual settlement within the ACH system and then using an internal system to flow the funds to their subsidiary overseas.    More info here at NACHA that sets the rules for ACH transfers.

 

For right now until I see quite a few other US folks starting to get ACH transfer rejects, I'm going to stay on the side of the fence that there is just something different about how bhatmasterson's bank, which seems to be a small, local area bank, does its ACH transfers.

 

 

The information about the policy change came directly from a manager at the NY Branch BK Bank. 

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, bhatmasterson said:

The information about the policy change came directly from a manager at the NY Branch BK Bank. 

 

Ok, so your ACH test deposits don't get past the NY branch.   It's not any "in-Thailand" Bangkok Bank office/branch rejecting them....they are being rejected at the NY branch.   

 

With that info it clears-up for at least me their "....intended for Bangkok Bank Bangkok branches..." phrase which is quoted again below.  Basically, when the transfer arrives Bangkok Bank "NY" since their routing number is used they are doing the screening of the transfer....and if it's not in the correct format which requires IAT format it gets rejected at that point...doesn't go beyond the NY branch....your in-Thailand branch never receives it....doesn't even get a chance to reject it.

Quote

As per our new procedure, all payments intended for Bangkok Bank Bangkok branches must be received in the IAT format (International ACH).

 

With this clarification and since I'm not seeing any other US folks who use the ACH transfer method via Bangkok Bank posting about why are my transfers now being rejected I'm going to stay on the side of the fence that your bank is simply not using updated ACH format since the IAT format has been around for year and your sending bank is the real source of the problem.   

 

But hey, who knows, maybe you are just the first to see this problem and over the coming days/weeks/months we see a lot of US folks (including me) make posts about their transfers now being rejected...ad-hoc and/or direct deposit transfers.  Time will tell....nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to banking.

 

 

 

 

[NancyL]

Even though we really don't need extra money in Thailand right now, I just scheduled a $500 ACH transfer from my U.S. credit union to Bangkok Bank using the same procedure I've used for 10 years.  We'll see what happens.  Normally, I transfer larger amounts, so hopefully this small sum won't cause something to go "tilt" along the way.

 

Incidentally, I have a friend here who uses a small local credit union in upstate New York and she found they couldn't do international ACH transfers, either.

 

 

[bhatmasterson]

The information on their own page hasn't changed. I've copy & pasted the info and sent it back to the NY branch asking if this has been discontinued. No word from them yet.

 

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx 

[Pib]

17 hours ago, Pib said:

...since the IAT format has been around for year and your sending bank is the real source of the problem."

 

Correction...typo above where I said "year"....I meant to type the plural form of years because in my googling I found plenty of documents talking IAT format going back up to 10 years.  It's  nothing new.  I don't want to leave the impression the IAT format if fairly new.  

 

In that googling I was also looking for "must implement by" type date because many times new rules/polices come out years before they must be implemented in order to give entities time to adjust since new rules/polices many times require money & manhours to implement.

 

Looking forward to the results of NancyL's ACH transfer and seeing if bhatmasterson's email to Bangkok Bank NY gives some more clues.    

[bhatmasterson]

26 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Correction...typo above where I said "year"....I meant to type the plural form of years because in my googling I found plenty of documents talking IAT format going back up to 10 years.  It's  nothing new.  I don't want to leave the impression the IAT format if fairly new.  

 

In that googling I was also looking for "must implement by" type date because many times new rules/polices come out years before they must be implemented in order to give entities time to adjust since new rules/polices many times require money & manhours to implement.

 

Looking forward to the results of NancyL's ACH transfer and seeing if bhatmasterson's email to Bangkok Bank NY gives some more clues.    

Bangkok Bank NY has opened and closed since my message to the manager yesterday. I've sent another asking to be directed to someone who can answer my question. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by bhatmasterson

[bhatmasterson]

20 hours ago, bhatmasterson said:

Bangkok Bank NY has opened and closed since my message to the manager yesterday. I've sent another asking to be directed to someone who can answer my question. 

Here is the reply from BK Bank NY.

 

Dear ********

 

I sincerely apologize about the sudden change in our banks  services. This is beyond our control.

This implementation is from the Office of Control Currency  Control (OCC) who has ordered  us not to accept payments that are not in the correct International ACH format (IAT).

We would really like to assist you in whatever way we can, but unfortunately we must comply with their decision.

Best regards

********

[Pib]

Well, this means there should be a LOT of US folks who regularly transfer funds (like monthly) to Thailand using ACH to start seeing funds transfer rejections.   Plus, I wonder if the many who have their US govt pensions direct deposited to Bangkok Bank from social security, military retirement, etc. will be impacted?.

 

NancyL should have a report for us this coming week since she initiated a transfer a few days ago.

 

 

[asiaexpat]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Well, this means there should be a LOT of US folks who regularly transfer funds (like monthly) to Thailand using ACH to start seeing funds transfer rejections.   Plus, I wonder if the many who have their US govt pensions direct deposited to Bangkok Bank from social security, military retirement, etc. will be impacted?.

 

NancyL should have a report for us this coming week since she initiated a transfer a few days ago.

 

 

I did a ACH transfer this week and went well. Three days and in my account. No problem.

Edited May 19, 2018 by asiaexpat

[Pib]

For other US folks listening in, if you have done a "pretty recent" ACH transfer from your US bank to your Bangkok Bank account...say within the last month....please chime in on your results.   

[bhatmasterson]

Okay, so I was about to give up on this and thought I'd read every page of Broadway Bankl's website to see if there was any way around this such as bill pay or something. I found out the bank let's you  pay people electronically.  So I paid myself a small amount. After 3 days, there it was in my BK Bank account. Problem solved!