Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[sam neuts]

The problem is that very few people have read the 2016 amendment to the Hotel Act which covers all building types that offer short term rentals. there is no 5 room or less exemption. I have started some FB pages and a group because this is going to affect so many people. Compliance is required by 2021.

My Illegal Hotel and Thailand Hotel Act Information group.

[marcusmarsh]

9 hours ago, sam neuts said:

The problem is that very few people have read the 2016 amendment to the Hotel Act which covers all building types that offer short term rentals. there is no 5 room or less exemption. I have started some FB pages and a group because this is going to affect so many people. Compliance is required by 2021.

My Illegal Hotel and Thailand Hotel Act Information group.

 

what are the names of those facebook groups please ?

[KittenKong]

The problem is that very few people have read the 2016 amendment to the Hotel Act which covers all building types that offer short term rentals. there is no 5 room or less exemption.....

The wording of that newer act seems to be all related to building use, and changing the use of existing buildings.

In theory condos can never have their usage changed as they are by definition residential.

[KittenKong]

Once again, in Thailand booking.com doesn't collect rents, guests pay when they arrive. They likewise do not collect for cancelations or no-shows, they leave this up to the host and in the unlikely event the host collects they want their commission.

Booking.com is only a platform to provide reservations. Throw it against the wall and if it sticks they get paid. Key to your comment is "UP TO CLIENT TO RESPECT THE DETAILS OF HIS BOOKINGS" . Fact is 3/4 don't honor the details with impunity.

I dont care who collects the money. The point is, as I mentioned, that with booking.com in most properties here I have two options: pay a lower price in advance and forego the option of cancelling, or pay more later (possibly on arrival) but be able to cancel up to some specific time before check-in. I have benefited from these lower prices in all sorts of places all over the country: from 5-star Bangkok places at 7500B/night to boutique hotels in Chiang Mai at 1000B/night to overnight stopover places in little towns that I cant even remember the name of at 300B/night.

I supply my CC details to booking.com and it really makes no difference to me who charges me. If it goes wrong I will just complain to my bank who will refund me, regardless of who got it wrong (assuming it wasnt me of course).

As for how easy or hard it is for hoteliers to work with booking.com: I dont care. I am not in business here and never will be. The only thing that interests me is how well it works from the guest's point of view, and in my experience it works fine.

I also dont care what happens to guests who cant organise themselves to respect their own bookings: I can do this and have no problem with it.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:50 PM, rexall said:

Not quite correct.  No more guesthouses legally on Airband until and unless the current crisis is resolved.  There is currently a nation-wide crackdown on guesthouses which face imminent closure if the guesthouse owners cannot prevail on the gov to call a moratorium on enforcement while some solution can be worked out.Someone said 50 guesthouses on Krabi have been closed.  I just returned from Chiang Mai and 95% of the guesthouse fronts are shut. I assume there are still guests.  There were only a few at the Britannia where I stayed and they were only honoring bookings made last month. Old Town is dead. It's a pity because so many tourist operators (taxis, restaurants, tour operators, travel agents, laundries, massage places and so on) depend upon the guesthouses and have a symbiotic relationship decades old now.  It is really sad.  Budget travelers, go elsewhere!  Busloads of Chinese, come on down, spend a few dollars and go the hell home!

Even more "sinister," if the guesthouses are closed in Old Town and elsewhere in Thailand, businesses will fail, property values will drop, making the area ripe for Chinese and moneyed Thai developers to buy everything up, bulldoze the place, and replace with sterile, upscale crap, as god intended!

I anyone is concerned about this, I wold be grateful if you could SHARE this widely, tweet, facebook, vlog and blog about it. If the gov doesn't realize what an ill-conceived move this is in short order, it will be too late, and an entire Thailand tradition will pass away into memory.

Sigh!

I just returned from Chiang Mai and 95% of the guesthouse fronts are shut

 

Are you sure about that? I was walking around the old town ( inside the moat ) just a few days ago, and the places I saw were all open.

Last evening I passed by a "hostel" that was obviously accepting guests, which raises the question if "hostels" are under different rules, the guesthouses could call themselves "hostels" instead.

Certainly, if guesthouses are closed under this new enforcement policy, it's going to gut large areas of some Thai cities. Imagine the Khao San Rd area having no guest houses. That would affect the livelihood of hundreds of thousands of Thais that depend on backpackers for a living, with all the civil disruption that would cause.

 

IMO, it will go the same way as every other similar problem. There will be a lot of jumping up and down and in the end it will be quietly dropped and things will carry on.

How many tourists have been put in jail for a year for smoking on the beach?

[Wake Up]

On 6/2/2018 at 8:10 AM, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

There is nothing wrong with advertising Hotels and Guesthouses on Airbnb. Renting out condos is illegal. I recently saw a Facebook post of a guy I don’t know offering a unit in MY building for short term rental so I sent him a message advising him to take down the Facebook post or I would advise CM immigration and have advised management already. He replied with a threat and calling me a “Richard”.

I applaud you. ?????

[Sir Dude]

Thailand still so insular and inward looking. Screw the public and customers as usual...only help the mafia and status quo. 

[JAZZDOG]

27 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

I applaud you. ?????

Exactly why I would never buy a condo, like having dorm monitors.

[Wake Up]

21 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Thailand still so insular and inward looking. Screw the public and customers as usual...only help the mafia and status quo. 

100 percent disagree with every word you stated as I find it is opposite. But as a Air bnb person you don’t get your way so throw criticism bombs away. Guys like you still queuing up at 6 am or hiring an agent to get a visa to live in this place you hate. That to me is a weird way to live. 

[sam neuts]

 

On 19 August 2016, Thailand’s Ministry of Interior Ministerial Regulation Prescribing Descriptions of Other Types of Building Used for a Hotel Business Operation 2016 under the Building Control Act (1979) (the “MR”), became effective.

 

However, it applies only to buildings that existed before it came into force and whose owners desire to use the property as “Hotel” (as defined by the Hotel Act) with either:

 

(a) rooms only; or

 

(b) rooms and food service/restaurant facilities.

 

The three categories of buildings that are eligible for this re-classification are as follows:

 

Type 1: a building with not more than two floors and not more than 10 rooms;

 

Type 2: a building that is not a Type 1 building and which does not have more than twenty rooms; and

 

Type 3: a building that is not a Type 1 building and which does have more than twenty rooms.

 

The MR liberalizes the various Hotel usage-building requirements under the BCA for these types of buildings. For example:

 

BUILDING TYPE  OLD REGULATIONS UNDER THE MR  Minimum open/unused space    

Type

1, 2, and 3 Equivalent to 30% of “the area of the largest floor of the building”

(MR. No. 55 Clause 33) Equivalent to 10% of “the area of the largest floor of the building“    

Minimum width of the walkway    

Type 1 1.5 M

(MR. No. 55 Clause 21) 1 M    

Type 2   1.2 M    

Type 3   1.5 M    

Minimum width of stairs    

Type 1 1.2 – 1.5 M

Based on area of the upper floor

(MR. No. 55 Clause 24) 0.9 M    

Type 2   N/A    

Type 3   N/A    

Minimum Live Load    

Type 1 200kg/SQ M

(MR No.6) 150 KG/ SQ M    

Type 2   200 KG/ SQ M    

Type 3   200 KG/ SQ M  

 

An application to change the usage a building to a hotel under the BCA must be completed within five years from the date the MR came into force. However, if the building requires structural modification before applying to change its usage to a hotel, that application (or notification under Section 39(bis) of the BCA) must be filed within two years.

And it should be noted the building must still comply with other BCA regulations regarding hotel usage, in force at the time the building was originally constructed (or altered), regarding such matters as the building’s height, setback, and parking.

[sam neuts]

The Condominium Law and Hotel Act are available to see if you look at social media Thailand Hotel Act Information and also on Google.

 

More raids in South Pattaya and a number of well established companies are changing their policy to a minimum of 30 day bookings.

[dabhand]

Looks like AirBnB is also having a few problems in Japan.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44409187

Hosts in Japan are required to register their listing and display their licence number by 15 June to remain active.

[Maestro]

On 6/6/2018 at 12:02 PM, sam neuts said:

The Condominium Law and Hotel Act are available to see if you look at social media Thailand Hotel Act Information and also on Google.

 

More raids in South Pattaya and a number of well established companies are changing their policy to a minimum of 30 day bookings.

 

An English translation of the Condominium Act is here, but it is irrelevant for this topic.

 

An English translation of the Hotel Act is here.

 

The Ministerial Regulation dated 14 May 2008 is here but it is in Thai. It clarifies the definition of "hotel" in the Hotel Act. An English translation does not appear to be available on the Internet.

 

An English commentary on the Ministerial Regulation of 2008 is here. It was published by the law firm Mayer and the following paragraph is germane to this topic:

Quote

The definition of hotel will exclude any residential premises open to the public for rental with no more than 4 rooms on all floors in aggregate whether in a single building or in several buildings, and with a total service capacity of 20 guests, operating as a small business which provides an additional source of income for the owners. The owners of such premises are also required to report to the Hotel Registrar.

 

The following text elements are noteworthy:

• ...operates as a small business...
• ...required to report to the Hotel Registrar

It would be interesting to hear from a member who complies with the above conditions what the procedure for the report to the Hotel Registrar was.

 

[rexall]

On 6/3/2018 at 9:20 PM, DrTuner said:

Would sound logical, if you're running a hotel you need a company and necessary permits. I however doubt Thais could ever get their stuff together and actually enforce anything.

Yeah, but that's a damn shame, isn't it?  Impose a bunch of regulations without properly thinking it through. Then when the thing proves unenforceable or the unintended consequences prove worse than the problem you were trying to fix, quietly stop enforcing.  Then leave this long shadow of a stupid law over people living uncomfortably outside of the law.  No way to run a railroad!

[madmitch]

On 6/8/2018 at 6:16 PM, dabhand said:

Looks like AirBnB is also having a few problems in Japan.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44409187

Hosts in Japan are required to register their listing and display their licence number by 15 June to remain active.

I've been affected by this, having booked two Airbnbs in Japan next month; one has the license, the other is pending.

 

Why can't Thailand do something like this? If the rental is against condominium rules they cannot get a license. If the premises isn't u to standard then ditto. They can then enforce the guest registration and ensure taxes are paid. 

 

On a different issue, I received the following from Expedia yesterday:

 

Recently, we have heard about how hotels in top tourist destinations, such as Chiang Mai and Krabi, have been visited by authorities for a hotel license check. This led to many hotels having to close down their businesses for an uncertain period of time. To make sure we take necessary actions, please update your hotel license status in the link below. If you're one of the hotels at risk, please refer to the steps below as a checklist your required actions. 
 

They have requested that any premises without the appropriate licence closes out their rooms with immediate effect. Expedia also run the Airbnb rival Homeaway. I have no idea if those listers received a similar mail.

 

So even the big boys are worried about the implications of what's happening in Thailand. Our place has a license from the Tessabaan, and we were inspected yesterday for the first time in maybe ten years; an inspection that can't have taken more than five minutes. We're also registered with the Phuket OrBorJor and pay room tax so I've stated we're licensed. I haven't a clue if this is sufficient, however, nor do any other local business owners! 

 

I wonder if Booking.com, Agoda and the rest will follow suit.

[rexall]

On 6/14/2018 at 10:31 AM, madmitch said:

I've been affected by this, having booked two Airbnbs in Japan next month; one has the license, the other is pending.

 

Why can't Thailand do something like this? If the rental is against condominium rules they cannot get a license. If the premises isn't u to standard then ditto. They can then enforce the guest registration and ensure taxes are paid. 

 

On a different issue, I received the following from Expedia yesterday:

 

Recently, we have heard about how hotels in top tourist destinations, such as Chiang Mai and Krabi, have been visited by authorities for a hotel license check. This led to many hotels having to close down their businesses for an uncertain period of time. To make sure we take necessary actions, please update your hotel license status in the link below. If you're one of the hotels at risk, please refer to the steps below as a checklist your required actions. 
 

They have requested that any premises without the appropriate licence closes out their rooms with immediate effect. Expedia also run the Airbnb rival Homeaway. I have no idea if those listers received a similar mail.

 

So even the big boys are worried about the implications of what's happening in Thailand. Our place has a license from the Tessabaan, and we were inspected yesterday for the first time in maybe ten years; an inspection that can't have taken more than five minutes. We're also registered with the Phuket OrBorJor and pay room tax so I've stated we're licensed. I haven't a clue if this is sufficient, however, nor do any other local business owners! 

 

I wonder if Booking.com, Agoda and the rest will follow suit.

One of the big issues is that small guesthouse type hotels often (usually) are unable to obtain a license because of regulations that do not apply to their particular situation or are impossibly to comply with such as having 30% open space in their storefront (or something like that, as best as I understood one owner's explanation). 

So THE question becomes: Is this to provide health and safety to consumers, or to provide protection to big operators against competition?

[JAZZDOG]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:31 AM, madmitch said:

I've been affected by this, having booked two Airbnbs in Japan next month; one has the license, the other is pending.

 

Why can't Thailand do something like this? If the rental is against condominium rules they cannot get a license. If the premises isn't u to standard then ditto. They can then enforce the guest registration and ensure taxes are paid. 

 

On a different issue, I received the following from Expedia yesterday:

 

Recently, we have heard about how hotels in top tourist destinations, such as Chiang Mai and Krabi, have been visited by authorities for a hotel license check. This led to many hotels having to close down their businesses for an uncertain period of time. To make sure we take necessary actions, please update your hotel license status in the link below. If you're one of the hotels at risk, please refer to the steps below as a checklist your required actions. 
 

They have requested that any premises without the appropriate licence closes out their rooms with immediate effect. Expedia also run the Airbnb rival Homeaway. I have no idea if those listers received a similar mail.

 

So even the big boys are worried about the implications of what's happening in Thailand. Our place has a license from the Tessabaan, and we were inspected yesterday for the first time in maybe ten years; an inspection that can't have taken more than five minutes. We're also registered with the Phuket OrBorJor and pay room tax so I've stated we're licensed. I haven't a clue if this is sufficient, however, nor do any other local business owners! 

 

I wonder if Booking.com, Agoda and the rest will follow suit.

Emails from Expedia, Airbnb, Agoda, Booking.com and others are not manually generated. They would go out simultaneously to all hosts. Some of these have regional offices here in LOS. We use these sites under different email addresses and receive communications at the same time on all of our addresses. We have received no notification such as you describe. Please include the entire email.

[KhaoYai]

Can someone please confirm definitively, that these rules apply to condos and not private houses?  Due to ill health I may have to postpone plans to live in Thailand long term and thought I might rent my house out.  I could let it long term as there is a large international school nearby but being in an area that is popular with Thai tourists, it may be more profitable to rent it short term to tourists.

 

I realise that I'd need someone to look after the place and conduct handovers to renters but I think I can arrange that.  What I don't want to do is break the law. Maybe I should ask at my local land office?

[sam neuts]

Can someone please confirm definitively, that these rules apply to condos and not private houses?  Due to ill health I may have to postpone plans to live in Thailand long term and thought I might rent my house out.  I could let it long term as there is a large international school nearby but being in an area that is popular with Thai tourists, it may be more profitable to rent it short term to tourists.
 
I realise that I'd need someone to look after the place and conduct handovers to renters but I think I can arrange that.  What I don't want to do is break the law. Maybe I should ask at my local land office?

You should ask at your local District Office not City Hall. You can request an inspection. One of our members was told that they had to obtain a Hotel Licence to rent their house/villa on a daily basis. Not possible due to the numerous changes and costs involved. Now CLOSED for business.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[stud858]

How about finding a hotel already with a licence to act as your agent.  

Sorted. Unless the licence is address specific. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by stud858

[JAZZDOG]

Not so breaking news. Deadline to comply or be arrested Jan 31, 2017.

 

https://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/thailand-cracks-down-unlicensed-phuket-hotels

[JAZZDOG]

1 minute ago, stud858 said:

How about finding a hotel already with a licence to act as your agent.  

Sorted. 

It is the building that doesn't conform. Think the cops are dumb enough to buy into your 4 room guesthouse over a gogo as part of the Hilton chain!

[JAZZDOG]

https://hotelintel.co/c9-hotelworks-reveals-shocking-numbers-unlicensed-hotels-phuket/

[JAZZDOG]

https://skift.com/2012/07/26/thailands-interior-ministry-gives-unlicensed-hotels-a-reason-to-go-legit/

[stud858]

10 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

It is the building that doesn't conform. Think the cops are dumb enough to buy into your 4 room guesthouse over a gogo as part of the Hilton chain!

If a contract is written to rent the four rooms on a 1 year contract to a hotel And the hotel uses these rooms under its licence to rent short term then this is the type of law dodging that is sometimes allowed. Like buying land by a foreigner under a Thai company. I wouldnt try either dodging method myself but legally it's interesting to see how illegal can become legal with a tweak.

[sam neuts]

I don't know if I am allowed to post any links but here is one that may clear up the AirBnB part.

 

Please feel free to remove it if it is not allowed and readers will have to message me.

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2018/06/24/thai-law-case-closed-on-airbnb-heres-why-it-wont-matter/

[balo]

From the article:

 

"Truly, the fate of the Airbnb and daily rental business in Thailand will depend on the condo juristic person committee and the condo juristic person manager and how serious these condo management people will enforce the rules and the law. The reality is condo managements in general are reluctant to take on the violation and will act half-heartedly in a subdued manner when receiving complaints from other co-owners who live in the condo peacefully without doing the business. The net result will be
Airbnb and the daily rental business will keep growing in prosperity despite the two court cases."

 

Noting to worry about then.

 

[JAZZDOG]

52 minutes ago, balo said:

From the article:

 

"Truly, the fate of the Airbnb and daily rental business in Thailand will depend on the condo juristic person committee and the condo juristic person manager and how serious these condo management people will enforce the rules and the law. The reality is condo managements in general are reluctant to take on the violation and will act half-heartedly in a subdued manner when receiving complaints from other co-owners who live in the condo peacefully without doing the business. The net result will be
Airbnb and the daily rental business will keep growing in prosperity despite the two court cases."

 

Noting to worry about then.

 

I disagree I believe they will make concessions for most hotels but the condo short term is doomed. Too many bitter condo dwellers are applying pressure and the law is strictly on their side from several fronts. The days of dropping off a horde of Chinese are numbered. I don't have a dog in the hunt, just MHO.

[mokwit]

4 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

I disagree I believe they will make concessions for most hotels but the condo short term is doomed. Too many bitter condo dwellers are applying pressure and the law is strictly on their side from several fronts. The days of dropping off a horde of Chinese are numbered. I don't have a dog in the hunt, just MHO.

Yes, but you are forgetting how many Thai Chinese own condos (in buildings they don't live in) for rental - their property is their pension. In my condo a downturn in rentals from the the tightening of visa conditions was averted by AirBnB kicking in around the same time. With AirBnB lets banned but seemingly still going on the building is not as full as it was pre visa restrictions. Pre AirBnB crackdown it was like a holiday camp. Ultimately the Thai Chinese who control things and who are generally absentee landlords are going to vote for not against AirBnB IMO.

[ThaiBob]

6 hours ago, balo said:

From the article:

 

"Truly, the fate of the Airbnb and daily rental business in Thailand will depend on the condo juristic person committee and the condo juristic person manager and how serious these condo management people will enforce the rules and the law. The reality is condo managements in general are reluctant to take on the violation and will act half-heartedly in a subdued manner when receiving complaints from other co-owners who live in the condo peacefully without doing the business. The net result will be
Airbnb and the daily rental business will keep growing in prosperity despite the two court cases."

 

Noting to worry about then.

 

If individual condo owners can file a complaint with authorities against those owners that use Airbnb, then short-term condo rentals will end. Since Condo Committees can be controlled by the developers and others, and turn a blind eye, the question is can an individual owner file a complaint. Perhaps Sam Neuts knows?