Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[whatsupdoc]

And while the infighting in the UK continues the EU make preparations for the no-deal scenario:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4545_en.htm

The UK should concentrate on the Withdrawal Agreement (and the solution for the Irish border). Tick, tock...

[The Renegade]

15 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

and await the disaster that Brexit will cause.

I see you share a Poundland crystal ball with tebee ?

 

16 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Your funeral.

We will all attend out own funeral at some point in the future. The only thing in life that is guaranteed.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

It's not the bits that are bad. It's the bloody beating heart of the thing.

The EU has no true heart. Just bits of different sizes, with a several of them bad but all of them tangled into a web that has been expanding and becoming more difficult to escape. This evolution of 'bits' is possibly accidental but more likely by design, over time. See how difficult it is to leave now? The EU is intent on continuous expansion, coincident with more and more centralization of power. 

 

If the EU was reasonable (and reasonably structured) then it should be relatively painless for a member to leave it after 2 years. However, as the first major nation to try and leave, we now find that there are snags everywhere. Two years ago, I'm sure that no-one had a truly composite grasp of how difficult leaving would be. It just shows what a badly managed and messy scheme the EU really is. 

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

I see the source of ‘statistics’ for these predictions is the ONS. They don't have a great track record with predictions.

These predictions are full of only negative assumptions – worst case scenarios.  I’ve seen the report on the DExEU website.

Incidentally, where did you get that screenshot from? I can’t see it on the official site.

It looks like you found it at BritainStays.co.uk.  I wonder what their agenda is…

They don't have a great record of unbiasedness either.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

You have stated your opinion several times. Now roll on...and await the disaster that Brexit will cause. Your funeral.

He only had a couple of goes. So much for democracy!  

[whatsupdoc]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The EU has no true heart. Just bits of different sizes, with a several of them bad but all of them tangled into a web that has been expanding and becoming more difficult to escape. This evolution of 'bits' is possibly accidental but more likely by design, over time. See how difficult it is to leave now? The EU is intent on continuous expansion, coincident with more and more centralization of power. 

 

If the EU was reasonable (and reasonably structured) then it should be relatively painless for a member to leave it after 2 years. However, as the first major nation to try and leave, we now find that there are snags everywhere. Two years ago, I'm sure that no-one had a truly composite grasp of how difficult leaving would be. It just shows what a badly managed and messy scheme the EU really is. 

 

 

What a load of <deleted>....

Leaving without a deal is easy, but that is not what the UK wants (OK,  to be honest, it is not clear to anyone what the UK actually wants....)

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

What a load of <deleted>....

Leaving without a deal is easy, but that is not what the UK wants (OK,  to be honest, it is not clear to anyone what the UK actually wants....)

Just saying what I see. I think you post a load of deleted too! Of course the UK wants continued trade and other co-op arrangements with the EU, with fair terms. The EU should want that too, bearing in mind the UK/EU trade deficit. But the overriding EU concern is to keep the UK in, especially as a major budget contributor. They know if the UK is seen to leave with relative success and ease, then others may follow. And that would be project complete! 

[CG1 Blue]

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

What a load of <deleted>....

Leaving without a deal is easy, but that is not what the UK wants (OK,  to be honest, it is not clear to anyone what the UK actually wants....)

The UK (by majority decision) doesn't want to be in the EU. It wants to be out.  That's what it wants.

 

The problem is that the HoC is stuffed with Remainers who have decided not to implement the will of their constituencies. That has muddied the process.

 

If you actually look at the result of the referendum by constituency, Vote Leave would have won by a mile.

It's disgraceful how a bunch of our MPs have tried everything within their power to derail the process.

[whatsupdoc]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Just saying what I see. I think you post a load of deleted too! Of course the UK wants continued trade and other co-op arrangements with the EU, with fair terms. The EU should want that too, bearing in mind the UK/EU trade deficit. But the overriding EU concern is to keep the UK in, especially as a major budget contributor. They know if the UK is seen to leave with relative success and ease, then others may follow. And that would be project complete! 

Yes, the EU wants the trade with the UK to continue. The best deal is not leaving at all but there are also the Norway or Canada options. Why can't the UK just chose one of these options?? The EU is not going to alter their rules for a country that wants to leave. These rules have been clear right from the beginning but the UK keeps trying to change them.

Brexit itself doesn't have to be difficult but there will be consequences and 'relative success' is not very likely in any scenario .

[billd766]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

You have stated your opinion several times. Now roll on...and await the disaster that Brexit will cause. Your funeral.

 

You have stated your opinion many times and it is always negative.

 

Now roll on and see what happens.

 

Nobody really knows what will happen, not even you.

 

I certainly don't and neither does anybody else.

 

For example, will Theresa May still be the PM in 3 months time?

 

Could it be Boris, JRM or even Corbyn?

 

Will the Tories even be in power then?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

I see you share a Poundland crystal ball with tebee ?

 

We will all attend out own funeral at some point in the future. The only thing in life that is guaranteed.

 

That and income tax.

[tomacht8]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

You have stated your opinion many times and it is always negative.

 

Now roll on and see what happens.

 

Nobody really knows what will happen, not even you.

 

I certainly don't and neither does anybody else.

 

For example, will Theresa May still be the PM in 3 months time?

 

Could it be Boris, JRM or even Corbyn?

 

Will the Tories even be in power then?

Exactly, it is a mess.

Planning uncertainty on all fronts. That will certainly have negative economic consequences.

 

[Rally123]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

You have stated your opinion several times. Now roll on...and await the disaster that Brexit will cause.

A disaster for who? Have you any proof that Brexit will be a disaster? Are you a 'psychic'? 40 years after the 'YES' vote the conclusion was that joining was a bad thing. Hence why Brexiteers triumphed. The majority spoke, accept it.

[Rally123]

1 hour ago, whatsupdoc said:

to be honest, it is not clear to anyone what the UK actually wants.

That's not true. The referendum showed what the people want. That's why we had one.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rally123 said:

That's not true. The referendum showed what the people want. That's why we had one.

That is very true, but if you compare the referendum to a football match, and the brexiteers were Man Utd and the remainers were Arsenal, and Man Utd beat Arsenal 2 - 1, they would insist that it doesn't count because we have to beat them 4 - 1.

[The Renegade]

37 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

That and income tax.

Only for some billd ?? Suckers like you and me.

 

No-one escapes their own funeral however ??

[Guest]

2 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

And while the infighting in the UK continues the EU make preparations for the no-deal scenario:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4545_en.htm

The UK should concentrate on the Withdrawal Agreement (and the solution for the Irish border). Tick, tock...

That's a smart thing to do as nobody knows how this ends.

 

Quotation from The Guardian 

No-deal Brexit: EU warns its citizens to prepare for the worst

Quote

Stressing the unpredictability of British politics, the senior EU official said they might as well “read the entrails of animals” to know what is happening.

?  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/19/no-deal-brexit-eu-warns-citizens-prepare-for-worst?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

[The Renegade]

Quote

 

Dominic Raab faced ridicule on his first trip to Brussels as Brexit Secretary as the EU flatly rejected Theresa May’s Chequers plan and mocked spelling errors in translations of the document.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/19/dominic-raab-ridiculed-first-trip-brussels-brexit-secretary/

 

???

 

Now you understand why Davis could not be @rsed trying to talk with them.

 

Never have been interested in negotiation, only subjugation.

 

Walk away now, telling them that WTO rules start on 29 March 2019. 

 

 

[stephenterry]

11 hours ago, Rally123 said:

A disaster for who? Have you any proof that Brexit will be a disaster? Are you a 'psychic'? 40 years after the 'YES' vote the conclusion was that joining was a bad thing. Hence why Brexiteers triumphed. The majority spoke, accept it.

In a democracy, I don't have to accept anything I don't agree with. I hope I have made my position clear that I am neither a remainer or leaver  - or banner waver - or trumpet blower - but I do care that the younger generation will pay for the folly of Brexit, probably for the next 40 years. If your avatar represents your age group, neither you or me will be around to witness the inevitable hardship of going it alone on the world stage. You don't need to be a psychic to realise that.

 

It might come as a surprise to you, but Brexit will (possibly) be in place in March 2019 in whatever form that is, unless a no-confidence motion is voted against the government, and parliament gets dissolved if Corbyn cannot muster enough support to form a new government.

 

Which, as matters stand today, is as likely.  

 

 

[Rally123]

22 hours ago, stephenterry said:

In a democracy, I don't have to accept anything I don't agree with.

Prams, toys, out, throw spring to mind. What you are saying is exactly what Id expect to hear from my 10 year old daughter when I tell her the rules.

 

22 hours ago, stephenterry said:

I do care that the younger generation will pay for the folly of Brexit

And you have proof that Brexit will be a folly?

 

22 hours ago, stephenterry said:

I am neither a remainer or leaver  - or banner waver - or trumpet blower 

So why the <deleted> are you bitching about Brexit if you're not against it?

 

22 hours ago, stephenterry said:

neither you or me will be around to witness the inevitable hardship of going it alone on the world stage. You don't need to be a psychic to realise that.

Yes you do need to be 'psychic' because you're forecasting doom and without foresight you're just guessing.

 

22 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Corbyn

Now isn't the man who, in the late 60's, campaigned for a 'NO' vote in the first referendum? He's more a Brexiteer than I am.

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/19/dominic-raab-ridiculed-first-trip-brussels-brexit-secretary/

 

???

 

Now you understand why Davis could not be @rsed trying to talk with them.

 

Never have been interested in negotiation, only subjugation.

 

Walk away now, telling them that WTO rules start on 29 March 2019. 

 

 

Apart from the last sentence, which would not be the most consensual way forward, it was the UK government's fault in not leaving the white paper in English, one of the three official languages of the EU. 

 

I would have thought that as a no-nonsense negotiating ploy, Raab would have told the EU to get it translated into whatever language suits them, don't rely on the UK to spoon-feed them.

 

As an aside, I do agree that the EU have made this negotiation as divisive as possible, and now Raab is on the defensive - not a position he should be in, IMO. 

 

 

 

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed along with reply.  

 

[stephenterry]

22 hours ago, Rally123 said:

Prams, toys, out, throw spring to mind. What you are saying is exactly what Id expect to hear from my 10 year old daughter when I tell her the rules.

 

And you have proof that Brexit will be a folly?

 

So why the <deleted> are you bitching about Brexit if you're not against it?

 

Yes you do need to be 'psychic' because you're forecasting doom and without foresight you're just guessing.

 

Now isn't the man who, in the late 60's, campaigned for a 'NO' vote in the first referendum? He's more a Brexiteer than I am.

Well, let's turn this on it's head. What proof do you have that Brexit will be a success? I've stated my opinion, you, yours, so we need to agree to disagree without getting personal about it, which your first and third response comments (highlighted in bold) were, and in contravention of forum rule 16 (no flaming permitted).

 

BTW, Corbyn is in favour of leaving (i.e. respecting the referendum result) but wants the UK to remain in  the single market and customs union as he has more sense than May.

 

 

 

 

 

[The Renegade]

8 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

BTW, Corbyn is in favour of leaving (i.e. respecting the referendum result) but wants the UK to remain in  the single market and customs union as he has more sense than May.

???

 

Corbyn is so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU does not equate to leaving the EU.

 

He also so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU nullifies most of his Party Manifesto Policies.

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

Corbyn is so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU does not equate to leaving the EU.

 

He also so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU nullifies most of his Party Manifesto Policies.

What more do you expect from a fence-sitter?

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

What more do you expect from a fence-sitter?

I was merely answering your assertion that 

 

16 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

he has more sense than May.

This suggests otherwise

 

7 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Corbyn is so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU does not equate to leaving the EU.

 

He also so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU nullifies most of his Party Manifesto Policies.

 

[stephenterry]

Just now, The Renegade said:

I was merely answering your assertion that 

 

This suggests otherwise

 

 

It's all relative. May hasn't got much sense, either, in not standing up to her rebels on both sides. Both a much of a muchness, IMO. 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

But don't keep whining when you lose, as you did.

Are you suggesting Bill that all freedom fighters should have given up at the first hurdle. The referendum was not a 'rout' and whether people accept it or not, the UK is engaged in a civil war of words. The government staggers from one battle to the next.

It is a contentious argument as to which side is actually fighting for democracy.

[tebee]

12 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

???

 

Corbyn is so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU does not equate to leaving the EU.

 

He also so dense that he cannot comprehend that staying in the SM & CU nullifies most of his Party Manifesto Policies.

Corbyn wants to stay in the CU but not the SM - he does not seem to realize it is from the SM that we get our current prosperity from.

 

I don't like Corbyn, I think he is playing a long game. He wants Brexit, but doesn't want to get blamed for it. His plan is for the Tories to leave with no deal, it be a disaster, chaos , followed by a GE. He gets swept into power, now with Henry 8th powers and  remakes country as his  socialist paradise.

 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

Corbyn wants to stay in the CU but not the SM - he does not seem to realize it is from the SM that we get our current prosperity from.

Why did you address this comment to me tebee ?

 

Should you not address it to the poster who made the comment ?

 

30 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

BTW, Corbyn is in favour of leaving (i.e. respecting the referendum result) but wants the UK to remain in  the single market and customs union as he has more sense than May.

Personally, I have no idea what Corbyn wants. I do not think Corbyn has any idea either, if truth be told.