Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[mrfaroukh]

This is not a change of law by Thai immigration to make it harder on US citizen. It is your own government that require all the banks in the world to make sure that foreign citizen in their country is not of US citizen. I am from Europe and live in another Asian country and I have bank account. I had to sign documents that I am not US citizen and do not have to pay tax to the US government. Even in my own home country I had to sign document that I am not dual citizen of US. So it is US government demanding all banks and now immigration to get a prof of your income. They want to make sure if you had paid your taxes to your government in USA.

[johnmcc6]

29 minutes ago, Formaleins said:

I heard they are soon going to provide all foreigners with a bankers draft at the airport, you basically just enter the country at immigration desks as normal. Then you fill in the bank draft formafter clearing immigration, this signs over all of your bank cash to the Thai aurhorities. After fillingin that form you go through a gate marked "EXIT" This leads youinto the departure gate for your next available flight back home.

I heard there was going to be a mass round up and execution of all farangs on 1st of January.???

[elektrified]

31 minutes ago, missoura said:

From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

 

 A copy of bank statement showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totalling not less than 800,000 Baht.

 

I had always assumed that this money had to come from America. But there is no mention of this requirement. So deposits in a Thai bank made from within Thailand should be ok. If this right or am I way off base? I'm trying to save spending $50 bucks at the embassy.

11 years ago I met with a large law firm in Bangkok and the attorney told me that the 65K/month can be any source- i.e. retirement income or income from partnerships, investments, business interests outside of Thailand, etc. as long as it is at least 65K/month coming from outside of Thailand.

[thaibeachlovers]

Welcome to the real world.

[jeffandgop]

7 minutes ago, mrfaroukh said:

This is not a change of law by Thai immigration to make it harder on US citizen. It is your own government that require all the banks in the world to make sure that foreign citizen in their country is not of US citizen. I am from Europe and live in another Asian country and I have bank account. I had to sign documents that I am not US citizen and do not have to pay tax to the US government. Even in my own home country I had to sign document that I am not dual citizen of US. So it is US government demanding all banks and now immigration to get a prof of your income. They want to make sure if you had paid your taxes to your government in USA.

Your comment has absolutely no truth or relevance to the Thai immigration requirements to show proof of income.

 

[jeffandgop]

If it is now a a requirement to show proof of a monthly income of 65K baht per month to support the US Embassy notarization of ones self declaration that one does receive a monthly income of at least 65K baht (as the alternative to keeping a deposit of 800K in a Thai bank for at least 3 months prior to applying for an extension of stay based on retirement) THEN what is the value or necessity of having that US Embassy notarized declaration ? Why not just be solely required to demonstrate that proof of the monthly income that Thai Imm may now be demanding?

Edited July 11, 2018 by jeffandgop

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, elektrified said:

This has been discussed on FB for a few days now. "Don't have the proof? Then come back when you do."

Sorry, which Facebook page/group is that?  I've tried a few CM Expat groups, US Consulate, Thaivisa CM, unable to find yet.  Pls advise.

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, jeffandgop said:

If it is now a a requirement to show proof of a monthly income of 65K baht per month to support the US Embassy notarization of ones self declaration that one does receive a monthly income of at least 65K baht (as the alternative to keeping a deposit of 800K in a Thai bank for at least 3 months prior to applying for an extension of stay based on retirement) THEN what is the value or necessity of having that US Embassy notarized declaration ? Why not just be solely required to demonstrate that proof of the monthly income that Thai Imm may now be demanding?

At least so far, that is only a requirement (if that is the right word) at the IMM office in Chiang Mai.

Edited July 11, 2018 by JLCrab

[George Bowman]

21 minutes ago, elektrified said:

the attorney told me that the 65K/month can be any source- i.e. retirement income or income from partnerships, investments, business interests outside of Thailand, etc. as long as it is at least 65K/month coming from outside of Thailand.

That is also what I have been told but their website does not state that. Perhaps the official regulations state otherwise.

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, Captain_Bob said:

Non-O retirement visa based on affidavit pretending to have fake money was doomed sooner or later. Just a matter of time until the next "crackdown". 

It's not a Non-O retirement visa and the rest of your post is equally ill-informed.

 

3 hours ago, meechai said:

This was a long time coming....It was only a matter of time.

It was a given half the claims of income were BS

Another nonsense post. Neither you nor I could have any idea who cheats when applying for extensions of stay, including those who hire visa agents to fabricate mythical bank account balances.

 

Considering that the monthly income required for marriage and retirement extensions are about  $1250 and $2000 assuming that half the Americans in Thailand using those extensions couldn't muster that amount is laughable. 

[jeffandgop]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

At least so far, that is only a requirement (if that is the right word) at the IMM office in Chiang Mai.

The question remains valid regardless. “Only a requirement “ that does not detail the specific elements necessary to meet the requirement or necessitates documents that don’t satisfy the requirement begs clarification. 

[JLCrab]

If you look at the 2 - 2557 current Police Orders (Regs and Docs) they both say that what is listed is "the criteria and conditions for consideration" of extension of stay. It nowhere states that there are any such criteria and conditions for consideration that, if provided, are necessary and sufficient and nothing else can be asked by the "competent" IMM official.

Edited July 11, 2018 by JLCrab

[jeffandgop]

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

If you look at the 2 - 2557 current Police Orders (Regs and Docs) they both say that what is listed is "the criteria and conditions for consideration" of extension of stay. It nowhere states that that there are any such criteria and conditions for consideration that, if provided, are necessary and sufficient and nothing else can be asked by the "competent" IMM official.

(Withdrawn)

Edited July 11, 2018 by jeffandgop

[Bangkok Basha]

As some say, "a long time coming". I always have a copy of my Social Security earnings statement with me- in case they ask. I just renewed my one-year Extension of Stay at Chang Wattana in Bangkok, and they didn't look at anything but the U.S. embassy affidavit letter, the amount on which she converted to THB and wrote that in on my affidavit- that's all. Since many, if not most other nationalities are required to provide proof of their income or a sufficient amount in a bank account, it's not surprising that U.S. citizens might also be required to do the same.

[jeffandgop]

12 minutes ago, Bangkok Basha said:

As some say, "a long time coming". I always have a copy of my Social Security earnings statement with me- in case they ask. I just renewed my one-year Extension of Stay at Chang Wattana in Bangkok, and they didn't look at anything but the U.S. embassy affidavit letter, the amount on which she converted to THB and wrote that in on my affidavit- that's all. Since many, if not most other nationalities are required to provide proof of their income or a sufficient amount in a bank account, it's not surprising that U.S. citizens might also be required to do the same.

I think u missed some salient concerns. What that proof of income satisfactory to a Thai Imm officer in CM is not clear. That you had your SSA earnings statement with you in a Bangkok (and wasn’t asked for it nor asked for any proof) does not explain what would be required in CM. Historically the US Embassy notarization of ones income was sufficient for CM Imm. Now, proof of that income could be by many methods or just a few methods- it all depends WHAT CM IMM wants. Not what proof you or me believe to be adequate and might wish to submit. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by jeffandgop

[r136dg]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

1. I have often (but not always) been asked by the US Consular official prior to my affidavit swearing whether I am aware that Thai IMM can and at their discretion ask for corroborating info.

 

2. Thai bank ATM slips showing the 220 baht int'l transfer fee should suffice to show source of funds. Bring a stack of them.

3 month deposit here is the most hassle free. IMO

Be advised, those atm slips ussually fade out within a month or two. 

[Wake Up]

Understand your frustration in the change of requirements as no one likes changes and the lack of notice.   But guys that have the money can copy bank statements or other documents and should not be a big deal going forward. Would not cause me to move to Cambodia which will have its own set of issues. Good luck to you and as my thai female friend  always says to me when I get frustrated “let it go” 

[JLCrab]

Thank you. 3 months worth of legible ATM slips has never been a problem.

As for CM IMM, what you bring as proof of income is what you have and hope the IMM person is satisfied. Maybe CM has gotten to the point where they believe just too many Americans with an income affidavit have NO proof as to what income was sworn to on the affidavit.

[jeffandgop]

14 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Understand your frustration in the change of requirements as no one likes changes and the lack of notice.   But guys that have the money can copy bank statements or other documents and should not be a big deal going forward. Would not cause me to move to Cambodia which will have its own set of issues. Good luck to you and as my thai female friend  always says to me when I get frustrated “let it go” 

And how do you know that bank statements are sufficient? which bank? Thai bank? US bank?  Any offshore bank?  How many months of statements?  Any certifications of bank statements?  What other documents? Tax returns? Income provider letters or statements?  How long do any documents maintain validity before being provided to CM IMM?

It is a big deal for many who need that extension of stay and whose approval may depend on documents that must be asked for or prepared well before applying or otherwise it may be too late. 

The requirement is not expressed as “just have a sufficient monthly income”. It’s 65K baht of income per month. The requirements to prove it should be just as clear. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by jeffandgop

[Spaniel]

I wonder how this will affect these "agents" that get the 1 year visa for you.      Seems their price (fee)  would go up?       

[JLCrab]

So at least until CM or any other IMM office puts out some document (if ever) as to what they deem to be adequate support of an income sworn on a US Embassy income affidavit, those in CM may have to go in the next time with the best documents they have, see what the IMM says, and be prepared maybe to go back a second time with different and/or additional documentation.

[Just1Voice]

I downloaded the Income Verification form from Imm Website, then modified it to show both my VA Disability income and my SS income.  That way it has both figures on it. Then get the Consulate to "verify" it.  

[rwill]

I didn't read all the pages, so someone might of already said this,  but if you have the money it might be easier to just do the 800,000 seasoned for 3 months.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, rwill said:

I didn't read all the pages, so someone might of already said this,  but if you have the money it might be easier to just do the 800,000 seasoned for 3 months.

 

 

The one downside to that is that longer term CDs and even some deposit accounts are now paying 3+% interest and rising, federally insured, in the U.S. right now,  whereas Thai accounts at sometimes unreliable banks are paying 1.5% plus.  So it means potentially taking a 50% or so loss of earning potential on those funds. I'd prefer to keep my funds earning a decent return, if I have any choice in the matter.

 

[JLCrab]

18 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

I downloaded the Income Verification form from Imm Website, then modified it to show both my VA Disability income and my SS income.  That way it has both figures on it. Then get the Consulate to "verify" it.  

The US Embassy in Bangkok told me years back that they will not notarize any changes made to the template Income Verification affidavit.

 

Now if you downloaded the blank affidavit form and stated your SS and VA incomes and the embassy was willing to notarize your claim to have such incomes and with the caveat statement from the Embassy  that they in no way 'verify 'such claims, maybe they would do that. But that in no way guarantees that any Thai IMM office will accept as income verification anything other than the template US Embassy Income verification letter.

Edited July 11, 2018 by JLCrab

[Just1Voice]

9 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The US Embassy in Bangkok told me years back that they will not notarize any changes made to the template Income Verification affidavit.

 

Now if you downloaded the blank affidavit form and stated your SS and VA incomes and the embassy was willing to notarize your claim to have such incomes and with the caveat statement from the Embassy  that they in no way 'verify 'such claims, maybe they would do that. But that in no way guarantees that any Thai IMM office will accept as income verification anything other than the template US Embassy Income verification letter.

They've been accepting my slightly altered form for years.  Never said a word about it, and in fact, barely even glanced at it.
But, on the other hand, after 10 years they pretty well know me and both my 90 and 1 year takes only minutes. 

 

[JLCrab]

Makes no difference: The blank affidavit form says: 

 

4. The U.S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement. Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein.

 

And the income affidavit form says:

 

The U.S. Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement. Under penalty of perjury, I assume full and complete responsibility for the veracity of the claims herein. 

 

So in either case they have not 'verified' anything in fact they specifically state that they HAVE NOT verified anything.

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by JLCrab

[wwest5829]

Looks like I am again fortunate, as my annual extension was just renewed with the US Consulate affidavit. Hmm, silver lining. If the Thai Immigration refuses the affidavit ... well, that saves me $50.00 annually. For myself, the monthly minimum should not cause an issue. If Thailand does not wish me to live here and spend my retirement funds here, help support my Thai Love and StepDaughter, well that is up to Thailand. I am a free person and can live anywhere I am welcomed and can afford (ha! ironically, not my home country).

[jippytum]

My American friends used to laugh at the evidence and documentation i had to provide to my embassy to get an income letter .They only had to swear the income they had declared was correct and no factual evidence was required for them to be issued with an income declaration . Obviously this was taken advantage of and now the loophole is closed .No problem for those able to prove the figure declared as income is correct

[cardinalblue]

your US bank sends your annual income statements as well as YTD total assets. A combination of these 2 statements should satisfy CMI given your numbers meet the 65K monthly requirement.