Less Western Expats arriving than ever before and a significant fall in working Western expats now in Thailand

[LomSak27]

13 hours ago, madmen said:

You are describing Pattaya Chinese and certainly not bangkok. Malls are crawling with them and they are spending

 

Ah, So the Chinese are back .... TAT is going to be so happy.. Don't be shy send them an e mail!

[LomSak27]

8 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

9 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Really?

Then why are you marrying one if you dislike them so much?

The grand paradox.

Even more perplexing if one gives it too much thought. 

 

 

Another paradoxical mindphuck is the one that Thailand/Thais are so incredibly dependent on Farang and their cash flow. 

All apart of the accompanying fantasy of superiority and disconnections.

 

When you are done whinging about farangs, money flow, etc., you better figure out how to get the Chinese tourist cash flow back on track.

FYI seems the powers that be thought they would be just the ticket to replace those farang and their feelings of "superiority and disconnections" or whatever you're burbling about this  morning. I thought they were more concerned about westerners marrying in and flouting Thai cultural norms like P/Nong arrangements, but hey who really knows  

However the Chinese have that group dynamic thing going. If they get PO'd they depart in mass and now everyone looks stupid, most especially TAT and friends. 

Farangs ?? ... They've spent 20 years telling them they're not wanted, going to be a hard sell getting them back for this tourist season. They were the first, the original, Cash Cow, but Thailand figured they could always pick up a new Cow.  Ooops   Those Chinese now look like a bigger pain in the Glutes, than Farang. Go Figure that one 

 

Allright, coffee is up, dawn is breaking time to get out there for the morning constitutional. 

 

Aloha

[kannot]

14 hours ago, Easy Come Easy Go said:

I went on a holiday there when I was a wee lad. But the great thing is that it's tropical and within the EU, which means British people can live and work there as they so wish.. for now anyway. I did enjoy it there, from what my 10 year old boy memory serves at least 

its  not  tropical.

[zzaa09]

7 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

If TVF is an example of Western Civilization, then we are truly screwed

One can only imagine why such a comment might go unnoticed.

 

 

????

[ChipButty]

14 hours ago, Easy Come Easy Go said:

I went on a holiday there when I was a wee lad. But the great thing is that it's tropical and within the EU, which means British people can live and work there as they so wish.. for now anyway. I did enjoy it there, from what my 10 year old boy memory serves at least 

I've got a friend there now, did live here, he rented a 3 bedroom house in a beach area ok no pool for 15,000 Baht a month he goes out drinking red wine all night for 150 Baht a bottle I miss a good Donner Kebab

[Fex Bluse]

7 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Not a good place for younger expats to work. The wages are low and the cost of living spirals.  

And, hardly anything innovative happening in any industry and hardly anyone interesting to talk to. 

[fruitman]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

And, hardly anything innovative happening in any industry and hardly anyone interesting to talk to. 

I've been to many company parties in the large karaoke venues where loads of companies are to party. I noticed that the Thai never speak to employee's from another table (other company) , it must be a culture thingy i guess...

 

In the West we don't have that many company parties in restaurants but people are much more interested in eachother or at least communicate much more with strangers.

[bkk6060]

20 minutes ago, fruitman said:

 

 

In the West we don't have that many company parties in restaurants but people are much more interested in eachother or at least communicate much more with strangers.

?

What "west" are you referring too?

 

The companies I worked for would book large rooms at a hotel or entire restaurants for the evening.

Especially this time of year.

It was about interacting in a fun and relaxed environment with your co-workers not "communication with strangers"....

[fruitman]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

?

What "west" are you referring too?

 

The companies I worked for would book large rooms at a hotel or entire restaurants for the evening.

Especially this time of year.

It was about interacting in a fun and relaxed environment with your co-workers not "communication with strangers"....

In the West (where all folks eat bread) we have more contact with other people, can be on the toilets or parkinglot or just to another table close to ours. Thai never have contact to ones they don't know, even when they know the name of the company of the other tables.

 

Myself i always made easy contact at the smoking area with anybody who was there. That even lead to good business deals for the whole company.

 

If you go to tawan daeng you'll see loads of thai companies there for a party but they won't speak to ones from another company. (i agree the music is too loud for that though).

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

its  not  tropical.

Being Scottish I consider anything south of Dover tropical.

????

[tideout]

23 hours ago, madmen said:

Young expats unless running a business shouldn't waste the best years of their earning life here.
If your a gun at what you do, work it in the West where you get top dollar. To many wasted opportunities just to be able to say I live in Thailand

I recently mentioned this to a younger expat here who seemed surprised. I think there are different reasons for working or retiring in this region depending on your country - makes sense to me if you're say, a retired Australian, a white South African as well as some other scenarios. Family obligations as well -  you're trying to keep together a family with your offspring etc...Frankly, if you're an single American working here and you're under 40 I think you're really wasting your time. The economy continues to do well and I'd even include some areas that have seen little job growth for years. No matter what country you're from though, a lot of these younger people are not building a career or work track that's meaningful at all in their home countries.....a mistake I'm afraid many don't seem to understand at all.

 

[melvinmelvin]

19 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

?

What "west" are you referring too?

 

The companies I worked for would book large rooms at a hotel or entire restaurants for the evening.

Especially this time of year.

It was about interacting in a fun and relaxed environment with your co-workers not "communication with strangers"....

that matches my xmas experience too,

pretty much the same in Japan and Korea also

 

intra office mingling

 

[KhunFred]

13 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Really?

Then why are you marrying one if you dislike them so much?

I think it goes without saying that I am not marrying the Thai government. I am marrying ONE woman, who seems to have an abundance of common sense. Accusing me of "hating Thais" is a ridiculous amount of verbal overkill. I don't approve of American foreign policy, but that does not mean that I "HATE" my country.

[overherebc]

31 minutes ago, tideout said:

I recently mentioned this to a younger expat here who seemed surprised. I think there are different reasons for working or retiring in this region depending on your country - makes sense to me if you're say, a retired Australian, a white South African as well as some other scenarios. Family obligations as well -  you're trying to keep together a family with your offspring etc...Frankly, if you're an single American working here and you're under 40 I think you're really wasting your time. The economy continues to do well and I'd even include some areas that have seen little job growth for years. No matter what country you're from though, a lot of these younger people are not building a career or work track that's meaningful at all in their home countries.....a mistake I'm afraid many don't seem to understand at all.

 

As more and more 'home' governments are starting to look at and are, lets say, changing the rules on state pensions I wonder if the expats here, especially those not on packages from home companies, are even thinking about long term income.

UK makes it almost impossible to get a private pension going if you are not in UK or you are a UK tax payer.

[SupermarineS6B]

19 hours ago, ChipButty said:

I've known quite a few farangs (UK) leave Thailand in the last couple of years gone to live in Cyprus 

Been thinking about doing this, always liked Cyprus and Greece..... always liked retsina...........

[nausea]

1 hour ago, tideout said:

No matter what country you're from though, a lot of these younger people are not building a career or work track that's meaningful at all in their home countries.....a mistake I'm afraid many don't seem to understand at all.

You build it up or you burn it up. Personally, I go for a half-way house. Certainly, a lot of the experiences I've had would be impossible now, in my green old age; on the other hand, I'm pretty grateful happenstance has given me a little money to live on in my old age.  My saving grace is that I was pretty poor in my youth - who was it that said: "Bad luck for the young poet would be a rich father, an early marriage, an early success or the ability to do anything well", - and we're all poets at heart, however much we may protest our worldliness.

 

 

[ChipButty]

19 minutes ago, SupermarineS6B said:

Been thinking about doing this, always liked Cyprus and Greece..... always liked retsina...........

Northern Cyprus is also nice albeit Turkey, some nice beaches down the west coast near Famagusta and Thai people dont need a visa if thats still correct

[BigT73]

19 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

Otherwise, Cyprus sells citizenships at reasonable prices.

Desire a EU passport? Buy one in Cyprus

Hi Melvin do you have any links or idea of price and application process for one of these?

[StayinThailand2much]

Western Expats in Thailand – Why are so many leaving?

28th August 2018 Posted by Nina No comments

Filed in: Lifestyle

Tags: BLOG for Inspire Dan About Thailand thailand Western Expats

 

This blog has been provided by Dan About Thailand BLOG for Inspire.

This guest post is written by Tom Tuohy, who has written for various media from The Gurdian (UK), Bangkok Post (Thailand) to Al Jazeera (Qatar). Tom wrote this in follow up the Thaivisa Expat survey that revealed something many of us had been observing for the last few years – that many Western Expats are now leaving Thailand.

 

So long Thailand, it’s time we were heading home

By now many will have read and digested the news from the biennial Thaivisa.com survey that a growing number of Western expats are not happy in the Land of Smiles.

For some, this is not exactly news although, for others, it has come as quite a shock. Those brave enough to click on links to Thaivisa.com pages won’t be strangers to the typically negative comments generated on this website and indeed, many other Thailand expat discussion forums.

If one were to hazard a guess at the general make up of your typical commenter, one might get the image of a forever disgruntled middle-aged, divorcee who sits in his underwear in his 40 square metre condo, fag in one hand, Leo in the other, hunt and peck style (two-fingered) typing, moaning about his lot and never quite able to find it in his heart to say nice things about his adopted home.

Expat suicide? “Nah, he deserved it…for shacking up with a bar girl” or “How inconsiderate to have splattered his brains all over Uncle Suprarerk’s Honda from the fifth floor!” Such is the quality of comments one reads below a link to the sad demise of a recent fellow expat and rarely a word of remorse or pity let alone an RIP graces those boards. Thankfully, these expats do not represent the many thousands of Western expats in Thailand.

 

In fact, these expat forums seem to be where the most depressed and pessimistic farangs come to congregate if for no other reason than to wallow together in their own support group. Presumably this is the only way to help them get through their own sad existences in the tropical paradise that is Thailand.

That said, it does appear, in this instance, the “Old Groaners” (as I like to call them), have been right about how many expats want to leave Thailand or have already left. So what’s gone wrong? Why are so many expats leaving the paradise that is Thailand? And just as important, where are they all going?

 

“You seek him here, you seek him there…” (The Scarlet Pimpernel)

According to the survey, which had 1,429 respondents, so quite a sizeable group, there are fewer Western expats arriving in Thailand than ever before and a significant amount of working expats under 60 years have now left Thailand for good. Moreover, half of all expats have considered leaving the country over the last year, and of the group that has considered leaving, a whopping 84% said they are unhappier than when they first arrived.

 

Also, the newer arrivals have not been the young bucks, the “hansum man”, so beloved of Thai language schools, but have been retirees, with the average age increasing a mammoth ten years from 50 to just over 60 years old in just two years.

 

Only 1 in 5 expats is now under the age of 50 and only 2% under 30 years old. Back in 2016, when the last survey was taken, 10% were under the age of 30 and 33% were under 50 years old. It seems too that the writing was clearly on the wall two years ago, so it shouldn’t really have come as much of a surprise. When asked then, ‘Are you happier than when you first arrived?’, 39% said they were not and 44% of this group of respondents came from the under 60-year old group of working expats who said that financial pressure was the main reason for their unhappiness.

 

Indeed, expat finances is another revealing piece of news that came out of the survey and which I personally found quite surprising. Apparently, many expats are now living on between 25,000-45,000 THB a month. The latter figure is just over 1,000 British pounds a month and would barely get you a garden shed to rent in London, so it’s somewhat incredible to hear that so many are able to live on this amount and that’s at the higher end! If the survey is accurate, the vast majority of expats are living on this amount, or much lower, which really does conjure up new images of “amazing” in that old trope Amazing Thailand!

 

Long gone, it seems, are the days when Western expats would have enough money in their pockets to be out partying all night, grab a geng keeow waan gai on the way home, after paying a bar fine and, after a night’s intra-cultural exertions, stroll into Piccadilly Language School the next day smelling like a Soho brewery on a Monday morning and looking like they had gone 12 rounds with Vidal Sasoon’s hairdryer, and lost.

Indeed, if this news is indeed true, there must also be an inordinate number of Thai mothers going without emergency, lifesaving operations in Isaan (อีสาน) and a lot of arable farmers having to miss the latest auction to buy a new buffalo if these young buck expats are no longer able to spread their wealth around and support the locals.

 

Why have they left?

Thailand and the expat scene really has changed monumentally over the years and with all the changes to visas, the dreaded 90-day reporting, previously at Soi Suan Phlu near Sathorn, but now requires a trek to Laksi which takes the better part of a whole morning if you live in Bangkok. A friend recently told me that in Chiang Mai he has to get up at 4am every time he needs to do the 90-day report at Thai immigration and often doesn’t leave their offices till 4pm.

 

The introduction of the Thai Culture courses and the teaching licences were also deeply unpopular and perceived by many as cash cows designed solely to milk the new farangs out of more cash as were and still are the dual pricing shenanigans at national parks and Thai museums.

Read more at https://danaboutthailand.com/2018/08/24/western-expats-in-thailand-why-are-so-many-leaving/

 

This blog was written for inspire : Dan About Thailand

 

http://www.inspirebangkok.com/lifestyle/western-expats-thailand-many-leaving/

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by StayinThailand2much

[StayinThailand2much]

Thailand - The Hub of Expat Exoduses... A new record! ????

[StayinThailand2much]

The best countries for expats Ranking 2018

RANK	COUNTRY
1	Bahrain
2	Taiwan
3	Ecuador
4	Mexico

 

Best countries for expats 2018 – ranked | Atlas & Boots

 

https://www.atlasandboots.com/remote-jobs/best-countries-for-expats/

Edited December 11, 2018 by StayinThailand2much

[melvinmelvin]

32 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

Hi Melvin do you have any links or idea of price and application process for one of these?

try this as a start

 

https://apexcapital.partners/second-passport/cyprus/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxc7s8vuW3wIV1auWCh11KQ8MEAAYAyAAEgJYlvD_BwE

 

i just googled (passport cyprus)

 

 

[bkk6060]

On 8/2/2018 at 2:59 PM, webfact said:

The arrivals have also been retirees and not working younger expat, with the average age increasing a whopping ten years from 50 year to just over 60 years old in just two years.  

Actually more retirees are coming here now so the "mass exodus" are bogus comments.

I never understood why anyone would come here and work anyway.  Unless, they were attached to a major corporation with a very attractive offer.  Which from the article did not seem the case as only 1 in 10 reported an income of 145,000 b a month or more which to me is only average for a fully employed western ex-pat especially with a family.  

 

[BigT73]

15 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

try this as a start

 

https://apexcapital.partners/second-passport/cyprus/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxc7s8vuW3wIV1auWCh11KQ8MEAAYAyAAEgJYlvD_BwE

 

i just googled (passport cyprus)

 

 

Thats a real back door into the EU for anyone!, shame thailand dosent have a scheme of buy a property and heres a free passport haha.

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, BigT73 said:

Thats a real back door into the EU for anyone!, shame thailand dosent have a scheme of buy a property and heres a free passport haha.

yes,

if one is not keen on any investment

my guess is that studying or working in Sweden would be the quickest way to EU passport

 

Sweden is rather accommodating re immigrants

 

[Vacuum]

51 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

A friend recently told me that in Chiang Mai he has to get up at 4am every time he needs to do the 90-day report at Thai immigration and often doesn’t leave their offices till 4pm.

All he has to do is go to the nearest post office and send the report, 5 minutes.

[LomSak27]

1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Thailand - The Hub of Expat Exoduses... A new record! ????

 

Now that the Chinese tide is at Ebb, and western expats are leaving. Who buys all those Condos they have built in Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai?

 

    hmmmmm ????

 

Russians, Indians, or Middle easterners?  Maybe our T Team can come up with some answers.   HooYaa

Edited December 11, 2018 by LomSak27

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Western Expats in Thailand – Why are so many leaving?

28th August 2018 Posted by Nina No comments

Filed in: Lifestyle

Tags: BLOG for Inspire Dan About Thailand thailand Western Expats

 

This blog has been provided by Dan About Thailand BLOG for Inspire.

This guest post is written by Tom Tuohy, who has written for various media from The Gurdian (UK), Bangkok Post (Thailand) to Al Jazeera (Qatar). Tom wrote this in follow up the Thaivisa Expat survey that revealed something many of us had been observing for the last few years – that many Western Expats are now leaving Thailand.

 

So long Thailand, it’s time we were heading home

By now many will have read and digested the news from the biennial Thaivisa.com survey that a growing number of Western expats are not happy in the Land of Smiles.

For some, this is not exactly news although, for others, it has come as quite a shock. Those brave enough to click on links to Thaivisa.com pages won’t be strangers to the typically negative comments generated on this website and indeed, many other Thailand expat discussion forums.

If one were to hazard a guess at the general make up of your typical commenter, one might get the image of a forever disgruntled middle-aged, divorcee who sits in his underwear in his 40 square metre condo, fag in one hand, Leo in the other, hunt and peck style (two-fingered) typing, moaning about his lot and never quite able to find it in his heart to say nice things about his adopted home.

Expat suicide? “Nah, he deserved it…for shacking up with a bar girl” or “How inconsiderate to have splattered his brains all over Uncle Suprarerk’s Honda from the fifth floor!” Such is the quality of comments one reads below a link to the sad demise of a recent fellow expat and rarely a word of remorse or pity let alone an RIP graces those boards. Thankfully, these expats do not represent the many thousands of Western expats in Thailand.

 

In fact, these expat forums seem to be where the most depressed and pessimistic farangs come to congregate if for no other reason than to wallow together in their own support group. Presumably this is the only way to help them get through their own sad existences in the tropical paradise that is Thailand.

That said, it does appear, in this instance, the “Old Groaners” (as I like to call them), have been right about how many expats want to leave Thailand or have already left. So what’s gone wrong? Why are so many expats leaving the paradise that is Thailand? And just as important, where are they all going?

 

“You seek him here, you seek him there…” (The Scarlet Pimpernel)

According to the survey, which had 1,429 respondents, so quite a sizeable group, there are fewer Western expats arriving in Thailand than ever before and a significant amount of working expats under 60 years have now left Thailand for good. Moreover, half of all expats have considered leaving the country over the last year, and of the group that has considered leaving, a whopping 84% said they are unhappier than when they first arrived.

 

Also, the newer arrivals have not been the young bucks, the “hansum man”, so beloved of Thai language schools, but have been retirees, with the average age increasing a mammoth ten years from 50 to just over 60 years old in just two years.

 

Only 1 in 5 expats is now under the age of 50 and only 2% under 30 years old. Back in 2016, when the last survey was taken, 10% were under the age of 30 and 33% were under 50 years old. It seems too that the writing was clearly on the wall two years ago, so it shouldn’t really have come as much of a surprise. When asked then, ‘Are you happier than when you first arrived?’, 39% said they were not and 44% of this group of respondents came from the under 60-year old group of working expats who said that financial pressure was the main reason for their unhappiness.

 

Indeed, expat finances is another revealing piece of news that came out of the survey and which I personally found quite surprising. Apparently, many expats are now living on between 25,000-45,000 THB a month. The latter figure is just over 1,000 British pounds a month and would barely get you a garden shed to rent in London, so it’s somewhat incredible to hear that so many are able to live on this amount and that’s at the higher end! If the survey is accurate, the vast majority of expats are living on this amount, or much lower, which really does conjure up new images of “amazing” in that old trope Amazing Thailand!

 

Long gone, it seems, are the days when Western expats would have enough money in their pockets to be out partying all night, grab a geng keeow waan gai on the way home, after paying a bar fine and, after a night’s intra-cultural exertions, stroll into Piccadilly Language School the next day smelling like a Soho brewery on a Monday morning and looking like they had gone 12 rounds with Vidal Sasoon’s hairdryer, and lost.

Indeed, if this news is indeed true, there must also be an inordinate number of Thai mothers going without emergency, lifesaving operations in Isaan (อีสาน) and a lot of arable farmers having to miss the latest auction to buy a new buffalo if these young buck expats are no longer able to spread their wealth around and support the locals.

 

Why have they left?

Thailand and the expat scene really has changed monumentally over the years and with all the changes to visas, the dreaded 90-day reporting, previously at Soi Suan Phlu near Sathorn, but now requires a trek to Laksi which takes the better part of a whole morning if you live in Bangkok. A friend recently told me that in Chiang Mai he has to get up at 4am every time he needs to do the 90-day report at Thai immigration and often doesn’t leave their offices till 4pm.

 

The introduction of the Thai Culture courses and the teaching licences were also deeply unpopular and perceived by many as cash cows designed solely to milk the new farangs out of more cash as were and still are the dual pricing shenanigans at national parks and Thai museums.

Read more at https://danaboutthailand.com/2018/08/24/western-expats-in-thailand-why-are-so-many-leaving/

 

This blog was written for inspire : Dan About Thailand

 

http://www.inspirebangkok.com/lifestyle/western-expats-thailand-many-leaving/

 

 

 

No one ever mentions the fact that many positions that a few years ago were filled by expats are now being filled by local Thais.

Supervisory positions are few nowadays for expats as more and more Thais become qualified to hold those positions.

Friends who worked in the inspection fields in fabrication projects are either being replaced by Thai, Indian and Phillipino ( spelling ) workers or are working for half or less than before. Only one example.

Middle management on large projects is exactly the same, more locals and cheaper imports from around Asia.

90 day reporting and TM 30/28 reporting has less effect than would appear on Thaivisa. ( I've never done a 90 day report in all the time I've been in Thailand. )

The lack of a social security network here is one reason younger expats 'go home.' Job finishes and money runs out, what else can they do.

Double pricing might be something to winge about but it's no reason to upsticks and leave.

 

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

The companies I worked for would book large rooms at a hotel or entire restaurants for the evening.

Especially this time of year.

It was about interacting in a fun and relaxed environment with your co-workers not "communication with strangers"....

I thought it was all about trying to bang the secretary. "Little Christmas" they called them. Ah, memories.

 

I suppose Thais with their karaoke have the same idea. Too high a price for totty, to enter such soul crushing torture chambers full of wailing demons.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, overherebc said:

No one ever mentions the fact that many positions that a few years ago were filled by expats are now being filled by local Thais.

 

You just mentioned it .