UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[rixalex]

Are you saying that there was no resentment among Britons of immigrants from other EU nations?  And that this wasn't a big factor in the Brexit vote? That freedom of movement wasn't a problem for lots of UK citizens?
And how does pointing that out make me a racist?

The resentment is not towards the immigrants themselves, the resentment is towards the politicians who ok'd an open door policy for immigration.

And if believing that immigration needs to be controlled makes one a racist, what does that make all the remainers, since I haven't heard any of them calling for a worldwide open door policy on immigration, have you?

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[Guest]

2 minutes ago, rixalex said:

The resentment is not towards the immigrants themselves, the resentment is towards the politicians who ok'd an open door policy for immigration.

And if believing that immigration needs to be controlled makes one a racist, what does that make all the remainers, since I haven't heard any of them calling for a worldwide open door policy on immigration, have you?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Once again, why does your font different from the font of the forum?

 

 

[mommysboy]

A what if timetable:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/18/brexit-endgame-what-happens-next

[tebee]

51 minutes ago, oilinki said:

And it shows, you don't talk like a proper Englishman.

U wat lad? U sayn' I don't not talk rite proper?

 

[tebee]

46 minutes ago, rixalex said:

The resentment is not towards the immigrants themselves, the resentment is towards the politicians who ok'd an open door policy for immigration.

And if believing that immigration needs to be controlled makes one a racist, what does that make all the remainers, since I haven't heard any of them calling for a worldwide open door policy on immigration, have you?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I'm calling for a worldwide open door policy on immigration

 

Let the free market decide !

 

You font is just the normal forum font, just one size smaller ?

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

U wat lad? U sayn' I don't not talk rite proper?

 

U wat? Is that the temple near U Tapao?

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm calling for a worldwide open door policy on immigration

 

Let the free market decide !

 

You font is just the normal forum font, just one size smaller ?

Who gives a font? ☺️

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

U wat lad? U sayn' I don't not talk rite proper?

 

Your fake accents doesn't fool us. Your baseline message is still based on logic. 

 

I just found myself thinking that Italians are actually more logical people than the Englishmen are. 

 

How the Anglo Saxon genes have degenerated over the years. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Who gives a font? ☺️

What if the font tells a story? 

 

What if the font tells a story how less and less people working for Putin's troll factory are less and less eager to produce Tzar Putin's propaganda?

 

What if ordinary Russians also wish to be part of the community of the world?

 

[tebee]

12 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Your fake accents doesn't fool us. Your baseline message is still based on logic. 

 

I just found myself thinking that Italians are actually more logical people than the Englishmen are. 

 

How the Anglo Saxon genes have degenerated over the years. 

I come from just north of Liverpool. Use to go to clubs, meet drop dead gorgeous girls who opened their mouths and talked like that....

 

52% of Brits seem to have lost all logic - maybe the others have all got some european blood and therefore some hybrid vigor !

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

What if the font tells a story? 

 

What if the font tells a story how less and less people working for Putin's troll factory are less and less eager to produce Tzar Putin's propaganda?

 

What if ordinary Russians also wish to be part of the community of the world?

 

You have a fontness for conspiracy theories?

[Orac]

Interesting take on Brexit from a German perspective

 

 

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

I come from just north of Liverpool. Use to go to clubs, meet drop dead gorgeous girls who opened their mouths and talked like that....

 

52% of Brits seem to have lost all logic - maybe the others have all got some european blood and therefore some hybrid vigor !

If one of the girls you see is Isobel Yeung, then I drop all my defences. She is the definition of a perfect woman for me. 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Orac said:

Interesting take on Brexit from a German perspective

Lols

 

[mommysboy]

This will go down well!

 

No meaningful vote.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-meaningful-vote-commons-conservative-party-tory-clarke-grieve-a8589561.html

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

You have a fontness for conspiracy theories?

Nope. 

[adammike]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Not all catholics want unity with Ireland- there are other factors.  Likewise not all Irish people south of the border want unification.

That's right I have never understood the catholic IRA fighting to have a bunch of protestants join them.I would fight to keep them where they are in fact a closed border with armed guards seems about right.

[vinny41]

People's Vote campaign calculates that the true cost of a delayed Brexit will be £182.5bn by 2025

 

Maybe They are suggesting that leaving with no deal is a better option

[kwilco]

On 10/17/2018 at 6:14 PM, nauseus said:

 

I think Aright's link was fair, considering the date of it.

 

Now read this from:  https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/china-is-winning-the-new-scramble-for-africa-brexit-could-change-that/

 

"The EU now allows certain processed foods such as cocoa and roasted coffee to be imported from the least developed countries tariff-free. In treating free trade as a humanitarian gesture, however, the EU merely emphasises its instinctive protectionism".

....and trumpis is not protectionist???????

[kwilco]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

For those who need to brush up on referendums...

 

[vinny41]

"A simple but vital piece of legislation to deliver on our promise to give the British people the final say on our EU membership"

Opening speech by Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond at the second reading of the EU Referendum Bill in the House of Commons

I beg to move, that the Bill be now read a Second time.

Mr Speaker, this is a simple, but vital, piece of legislation. It has one clear purpose: to deliver on our promise to give the British people the final say on our EU membership in an in/out referendum by the end of 2017.

Mr Speaker, few subjects ignite as much passion in this House, or indeed in this country, as our membership of the European Union. The debate in the run-up to the Referendum will be hard fought on both sides of the argument.

But whether you favour Britain being in or out, we surely should all be able to agree on the simple principle that the decision over our membership should be taken by the British people.

Not by Whitehall bureaucrats; certainly not by Brussels Eurocrats; not even by Government Ministers or parliamentarians in this Chamber.

The decision must be for the common sense of the British people. That is what we pledged. And that is what we have a mandate to deliver.

For too long, the people of Britain have been denied their say. For too long, powers have been handed to Brussels over their heads. For too long, their voice on Europe has not been heard.

This Bill puts that right. It delivers the simple in-out referendum we promised and I commend it to the House.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-simple-but-vital-piece-of-legislation-to-deliver-on-our-promise-to-give-the-british-people-the-final-say-on-our-eu-membership

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

People's Vote campaign calculates that the true cost of a delayed Brexit will be £182.5bn by 2025

Maybe They are suggesting that leaving with no deal is a better option

This means that our Russian 'friends' are actually afraid that People's vote becomes reality?

 

Pro Russian folks will naturally be against people's vote. 

 

 

[Patriot1066]

On 10/15/2018 at 8:12 AM, Grouse said:

A second opinion from the people after two years of enlightenment will allow weak MPs to do what they believe is the correct thing already - bury Brexit

I am not sure we are anymore enlightened on either the risks of staying in or leaving it appears the establishment didn't like the vote so have tried to frustrate the process of leaving. The government before voting day issued a booklet of properganda to aid the remain cause (12 million pounds of pro remain dribble) it clearly stated we would have what remainers term as hard Brexit, but is infact simply Brexit. The Government clearly told us the risks and that we would leave all institutions of the EU, so we voted for a hard Brexit in fact. Now just because the EU wouldn't compromise on their principals (I don't blame them) we should simply leave on WTO rules sign our own trade deals save what will be 15 billion pounds in contributions and receive due to EU imports a profit of 7-9 billion pounds on the tariffs the EU would have to pay us. Therefore we would profit by 20-25 billion a year. When we leave we also avoid the liabilities the EU builds up on our behalf such as the suposed 28 billion divorce bill. And the fact the EU budget is now set vastly above its income.

 

As to what I think your point is, the Brexit referendum was the largest democratic exercise in British history, if we had anouther referendum, (I don't mind if we do as think it will be very close again either way as don't see much option change in the real world) supose remain won, would we then in two years more time have anouther so we go best of three? MPs pretty much all voted for the referendum, and subsequenly for article 50 and there is likely to be serious unrest if we don't leave.

 

Additionally, the EU are funding (and we're before Brexit) in Slovakia over 125 million euros to build a Jaguar factory, that's not very fair to encourage a British manufacturer to shift production from the UK. They did the same with Ford who moved transit production from the UK to a EU funded factory in Turkey.

 

I do respect your remainers view, but there are serious risks in continuing with the EU project, which doesn't get a fair hearing.

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

This means that our Russian 'friends' are actually afraid that People's vote becomes reality?

 

Pro Russian folks will naturally be against people's vote. 

 

 

If the People's Vote campaign calculates that the true cost of a delayed Brexit will be £182.5bn by 2025 they appear to be suggesting that to leave without a deal is a better option

No need for a 2nd  Referendum 

Clearly you don't want to discuss the twitter post I wonder why 

Has someone in the remoaners camp drop a clanger

[tebee]

14 hours ago, adammike said:

I thought it was about the UK selling goods and services.

 

14 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

You are the first person to pick up on that  point, congratulations! However, my post was about the lack of unanimity within the 27, which some posters don't understand, or even see.

 

It's about trade isn't it, but sadly, the UK is unable to pursue its trade policy from within the EU, that's why the UK is leaving the EU.

 

I'm not sure if you read the full article or not, but the  Mr Thordarson goes on to say that "erecting trade barriers after Brexit would "simply mean that the politicians in the remaining 27 EU countries will have to explain to the people who could lose their jobs, that they are doing it because they are so 'tough' on the Brits.”"

 

 

 

 

The point is while brexit does indeed give us the power to set out own tariffs on our imports, it considerably weakens our position as regards other peoples tarifs and regulatory barriers on our exports.

 

We will lose all our existing trade deals through the EU and will be a relative minnow in the predatory ocean of trade negotiations, dwarfed by the big 5 trade powers. Indeed lowering our own tariffs on imports  disarms one of our weapons.

 

So what have we to offer other countries in return for them opening their markets to us ? Will they, like India, demand freer immigration to the UK  ?

 

We are good at services exports and most trade deals done even touch these, the notable exception being the single market.

 

I suspect brexit will put back british exports 20 years.    

[My Thai Life]

13 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The problem with Brexit is not so much the result or the doing of it, but the hysteria that surrounds it, but that hysteria is almost palpable.

 

It won't happen, it can't happen, but the best solution is to ditch Brexit for the time being.

I can understand that sentiment, but just ditching it isn't legally possible. I've posted a few times before on not being able to revoke A50, so I won't waste your time by doing it again.

 

The hysteria is coming from the remain side, for obvious and understandable reasons, but morally we can't just cancel Brexit because some remainers are getting hysterical (we can't legally cancel Brexit anyway).

 

The article I linked to yesterday re EEA and EFTA is probably the best I've seen on this topic, and the research paper that is linked to from that article is well worth reading for anyone who wants to understand the issue in some detail. The writer is basically recommending EFTA as an option, and explaining why EEA/Norway won't work. He's an academic with a specialism in this area, without any particular bias.

 

https://brexitcentral.com/britain-consider-efta-stay-clear-eea/

 

[Orac]

I am not sure we are anymore enlightened on either the risks of staying in or leaving it appears the establishment didn't like the vote so have tried to frustrate the process of leaving. The government before voting day issued a booklet of properganda to aid the remain cause (12 million pounds of pro remain dribble) it clearly stated we would have what remainers term as hard Brexit, but is infact simply Brexit. The Government clearly told us the risks and that we would leave all institutions of the EU, so we voted for a hard Brexit in fact. Now just because the EU wouldn't compromise on their principals (I don't blame them) we should simply leave on WTO rules sign our own trade deals save what will be 15 billion pounds in contributions and receive due to EU imports a profit of 7-9 billion pounds on the tariffs the EU would have to pay us. Therefore we would profit by 20-25 billion a year. When we leave we also avoid the liabilities the EU builds up on our behalf such as the suposed 28 billion divorce bill. And the fact the EU budget is now set vastly above its income.
 
As to what I think your point is, the Brexit referendum was the largest democratic exercise in British history, if we had anouther referendum, (I don't mind if we do as think it will be very close again either way as don't see much option change in the real world) supose remain won, would we then in two years more time have anouther so we go best of three? MPs pretty much all voted for the referendum, and subsequenly for article 50 and there is likely to be serious unrest if we don't leave.
 
Additionally, the EU are funding (and we're before Brexit) in Slovakia over 125 million euros to build a Jaguar factory, that's not very fair to encourage a British manufacturer to shift production from the UK. They did the same with Ford who moved transit production from the UK to a EU funded factory in Turkey.
 
I do respect your remainers view, but there are serious risks in continuing with the EU project, which doesn't get a fair hearing.

You seem to have a basic mis understanding of tariffs - they are not paid by the originating countries but by the importer into the UK and effectively a tax on the consumer ie. prices would need to rise here to cover it.


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[rixalex]

Once again, why does your font different from the font of the forum?
 
 

Once again? This is the first I'm hearing of it.

I'm using the Thai Visa app on my mobile, and everyone's font appears exactly the same on my screen.

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[sandyf]

14 hours ago, nauseus said:

Off topic.

EU paranoia to the fore again, only EU protectionism is of any significance.

The fact that UK is proposing a post brexit trade deal with the US makes US protectionism off topic in brexit decision thread!!!!!