The Girls Selling Lottery Tickets.

[OneMoreFarang]

42 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

A former Thai neighbour of mine used to run the unofficial (illegal) lottery and made a handsome profit doing it.  The substantial profits were invested in a piece of land on which she built a small resort.  Unfortunately for her, a lottery customer came up trumps with a million baht win, which she was unable to pay.  Under threats of an unpleasant death from the winner's family,  she was obliged to sell her resort quickly at a very low price so that she could pay out the winnings.   Another acquaintance, also running the illegal lottery ran into similar trouble when one of her customers came up with a big win and she was obliged to sell her business in order to pay out a negotiated 40% of the original winnings.

 

I guess many such sellers are lucky enough NOT to have any big winners who they are unable to pay and therefore do make substantial  un-taxable profits. They would consider the risk worthwhile, although I suspect that few would consider putting a substantial portion of the profits aside in case a big winner turned up one day, as that would involve a certain amount of planning and forethought.

In the above mentioned book the details are described. Here is a short summary about that part.

 

If I would be the illegal lottery seller and I would have 100 customers who buy 100 different numbers for the same price then that would be the perfect risk because it would be no risk at all. I could do this many times and I would always win - guaranteed.

But if customers bet on a few numbers and/or higher amounts then there is a risk. In that case I have two choices: Take the risk myself or go one up the ladder in the underground lottery and share the risk with someone higher up. If I share the risk then I won't lose too much and that is obviously the smart move.

But it seems many of the sellers are gamblers themselves who think they will always be lucky. I guess it works sometimes - until they are not so lucky anymore and they were too greedy to included the higher up. TiT

[paulsingle]

One morning I found a toad in my shoe on the patio. I was about to set it free when my wife took it from me and fetched some talcum powder which she applied liberally to its belly. She then blew off the excess powder and stared at the powdered toad belly intently. Apparently this is one of the methods of divining lottery numbers.

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

One morning I found a toad in my shoe on the patio. I was about to set it free when my wife took it from me and fetched some talcum powder which she applied liberally to its belly. She then blew off the excess powder and stared at the powdered toad belly intently. Apparently this is one of the methods of divining lottery numbers.

Congratulations, it seems you picked a smart one...

[NonthaburiBear]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I don't think I ever saw a lottery vendor who would be hired as freelancer or in a beauty shop...

what i mean , the girl might took another job to make ends meet despite only selling lotery tickets  . i know a girl a meet who seems like do nothing infact run online beauty shop. The other day i took BTS from On Nut and talk to a girl who stop at Nana stations and she show me she have OL shop on Instagram selling cheap clothes.

[bergan]

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

For me it seems the highest priority for Thais "work" is that they have some people around to chat. If a Thai has to chose between job A for money X with lots of people around or job B working alone with payment of 150% X I am sure most Thais would go for job A.

 

And with the lottery tickets: It seems few people go to the vendor with exactly one number in mind. There are always long discussions about many numbers. It must be a special science, I don't even want to try to understand it. But I am pretty sure when they talk about all those numbers then some buyers think they might miss the big draw. So after lots of talking they will buy some more tickets - just to be sure. TiT

Especially the second point. They're not really in direct competition, seeing they have different numbers and a most people are out to buy specific numbers.

[bergan]

9 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

I have tried telling Thais that the mafia lottery only pays half the odds of the chance of winning. Do they care? No

Your math is off by 20%, so why should they?

[bergan]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I also know some of these regular winners. Mostly they buy so many numbers that they can't possibly lose.

They will guaranteed win with at least one number - and lose with all the others...

My wife wins regularly. She buys a lot of numbers, but never nearly enough that she's guaranteed to win. I drink like a sailor and smoke like a chimney, so I don't object to her lottery spendings - we all have our vices.

[GreasyFingers]

20 minutes ago, bergan said:

Your math is off by 20%, so why should they?

That depends on where you are. I quoted the returns for Samui but I know they are a little better up here (+10%). If you are a punter/gambler you would not take those rates.

[bergan]

6 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

A former Thai neighbour of mine used to run the unofficial (illegal) lottery and made a handsome profit doing it.  The substantial profits were invested in a piece of land on which she built a small resort.  Unfortunately for her, a lottery customer came up trumps with a million baht win, which she was unable to pay.  Under threats of an unpleasant death from the winner's family,  she was obliged to sell her resort quickly at a very low price so that she could pay out the winnings.   Another acquaintance, also running the illegal lottery ran into similar trouble when one of her customers came up with a big win and she was obliged to sell her business in order to pay out a negotiated 40% of the original winnings.

 

I guess many such sellers are lucky enough NOT to have any big winners who they are unable to pay and therefore do make substantial  un-taxable profits. They would consider the risk worthwhile, although I suspect that few would consider putting a substantial portion of the profits aside in case a big winner turned up one day, as that would involve a certain amount of planning and forethought.

Normally the people selling unofficial lottery sell for someone else with deep pockets – some times people "go rogue", though, starting to sell while pretending they have a backer with deep pockets, when they really don't. Happened to my wife once, she won 70k baht and only got 20k. And that was even an acquaintance.

[bergan]

1 minute ago, GreasyFingers said:

That depends on where you are. I quoted the returns for Samui but I know they are a little better up here (+10%). If you are a punter/gambler you would not take those rates.

Here in Isaan a 100 baht bet on a two digit number results in a 7000 baht win.

[GreasyFingers]

1 minute ago, bergan said:

Here in Isaan a 100 baht bet on a two digit number results in a 7000 baht win.

In Samui it was 5000 baht but the wife tells me it is 6000 baht here. Good luck to you but I would still not buy at those odds.

[bergan]

12 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

In Samui it was 5000 baht but the wife tells me it is 6000 baht here. Good luck to you but I would still not buy at those odds.

Can't argue with that, it would take extraordinary luck to not lose 30% of the money you put in long term! That's 4-5k per month on average for us, but I can live with that as it's something my wife truly loves (in addition to shopping, purse and shoe thefts must be on an all-time high in Thailand seeing we apparently always need more of them).

Edited September 2, 2018 by bergan
Clarification

[sometimewoodworker]

24 minutes ago, bergan said:

Can't argue with that, it would take extraordinary luck to not lose 30% of the money you put in long term! 

My  neighbour is an overall winner so I guess that he has extraordinary luck. The selection of numbers that he buys is not very big.

[bergan]

18 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

My  neighbour is an overall winner so I guess that he has extraordinary luck. The selection of numbers that he buys is not very big.

Then he is lucky, unless tying fabric with 7 different colors around trees, praying, wearing clothing with "lucky colors" (and god only knows what else they do) etc. really works. Unless it's rigged and he's got an inside source, of course.

 

Some people are just lucky, though.

Edited September 2, 2018 by bergan
addition

[Wake Up]

I had a Thai GF who had lucky numbers her and her Facebook friends shared. She would stop and look for her lucky numbers at the various sellers. I hate the lottery as it is a rip off of the poor and I love math and know the odds. But she enjoyed it. One more reason to understand we all are different so let her have her fun. But after representing casino hotel operators I cannot gamble because I know the odds and hate to lose. I also have seen those people that have won a jackpot. Twelve months later most of their lives are miserable. People on TVF like to say Thais are greedy.  Win a lotto and see your family and friends turn into greedy monsters and you will recognize humans can easily be greedy monsters - thai or American or British or Russian or Chinese or every race, sex and national origin. 

[rwill]

At least where I live the underground lottery will block certain number combinations or only offer a 50% payout on them.  I am guessing they do this on number combinations that are being heavily purchased for that draw to reduce their risk.

[samsensam]

15 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

A former Thai neighbour of mine used to run the unofficial (illegal) lottery and made a handsome profit doing it.  The substantial profits were invested in a piece of land on which she built a small resort.  Unfortunately for her, a lottery customer came up trumps with a million baht win, which she was unable to pay.  Under threats of an unpleasant death from the winner's family,  she was obliged to sell her resort quickly at a very low price so that she could pay out the winnings.   Another acquaintance, also running the illegal lottery ran into similar trouble when one of her customers came up with a big win and she was obliged to sell her business in order to pay out a negotiated 40% of the original winnings.

 

I guess many such sellers are lucky enough NOT to have any big winners who they are unable to pay and therefore do make substantial  un-taxable profits. They would consider the risk worthwhile, although I suspect that few would consider putting a substantial portion of the profits aside in case a big winner turned up one day, as that would involve a certain amount of planning and forethought.

 

clearly the examples you give are of not very smart business people, a friend of mine runs an unofficial lottery and explained how the business model works, she is part of a much bigger network and always aware of her potential payouts, the network works together and distributes the risk between themselves, much as insurance companies re-insure risk. any ticker buyer is therefore assured and confident of payout should they win, otherwise the business would have no customers.

 

my friend makes a very comfortable living.

[chrisinth]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I also know some of these regular winners. Mostly they buy so many numbers that they can't possibly lose.

They will guaranteed win with at least one number - and lose with all the others...

Which really sums it up. I know a lot of people to have 'won' on a number, but put the 'win' against the money they put in to achieve the 'win' and it all becomes less significant in the big picture.

 

Of course, mentioning the numbers that didn't win becomes a taboo subject................... 

[Petchou]

On 9/1/2018 at 6:34 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

For me it seems the highest priority for Thais "work" is that they have some people around to chat. If a Thai has to chose between job A for money X with lots of people around or job B working alone with payment of 150% X I am sure most Thais would go for job A.

 

And with the lottery tickets: It seems few people go to the vendor with exactly one number in mind. There are always long discussions about many numbers. It must be a special science, I don't even want to try to understand it. But I am pretty sure when they talk about all those numbers then some buyers think they might miss the big draw. So after lots of talking they will buy some more tickets - just to be sure. TiT

did find out this by yourself?  are you sociologist?  just another generalisation without any rational behind it.   

[Gulfsailor]

A neighbor of mine wins almost every other week. At least that's what the firecrackers going of indicate. And when he doesn't win on his own tickets he offers people with winning tickets a premium price, paying them more than the actual price they won. He is a such a lucky and generous guy. He told me he is a pharmacist....

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Petchou said:

did find out this by yourself?  are you sociologist?  just another generalisation without any rational behind it.   

It's called observing people. You should try it.

[The manic]

On 9/2/2018 at 6:52 AM, possum1931 said:

I have no sympathy for cheats like that, by all means cheat people who are cheating you, but not innocent ordinary people.

Who cheated who?

[NoshowJones]

17 minutes ago, The manic said:

Who cheated who?

Read my post.

[The manic]

38 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Read my post.

I did.

[RamenRaven]

In Bangkok, most of the lottery ladies are from Loei province. Just ask them.

[elgenon]

On 9/1/2018 at 7:43 PM, balo said:

If they can sell 50 tickets per day they can live on it, less it will only pay for the daily food.

Do you really think they can sell 50 tickets per day? Curious.

 

How about the men/ women who carry two dresses to sell? A lot of people must live together and pool their money.

[ncc1701d]

For the unofficial lottery, sellers can sell on behalf of her “boss” or sell on behalf of herself. Obviously if you sell for yourself you get more money for selling, but you now take on the risk of having to pay out a winning ticket. I know of one girl who sold a ticket that won a around B100,000 and she obviously couldn’t pay it. She’s been on the run since.

Edited September 8, 2018 by ncc1701d

[finnishmen]

my wife has win lotteri 2 time first win 4000 b and second ticket win 10 000 b and tax has 500b true win only 9500 b last time. i no remeber how much tax has 4000 b win. but have true and good lotto, 5555, proplem has only need go to bkk take money out. wery far go buss one day trip, we live north thailand. true win after all tax and buss ticket has about 8500 b