BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[totally thaied up]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That is very concerning. Which means retired expats of ALL nationalities should be interested in this topic at least for now until we get the gist of how all of this is going to shake out. 

Several Visa Agents on my Facebook page now are advising about the British Embassy tonight and one Agent is saying more Embassies will follow. Could all just be talk but the words out now. The effects are being felt already and like yourself, this is/could be very concerning for a lot of people. 

[fforest1]

And immigration just give the Chinese their own lane at the airport to make it more easy for them....lol   

Edited October 8, 2018 by fforest1

[fforest1]

53 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Over the years immigration procedures for westerners in Thailand have been a doddle. Entering and leaving the country at will with virtually no questions asked, unlimited border runs whereas those on tourist visas could remain here forever, no tags kept on foreigners, marriages of convenience, westerners using Thais to front real estate speculating, buying properties, farms and land, running businesses and working on-line believing the authorities won`t notice. 

 

Immigration procedures are tightening worldwide and this is mostly due to foreigners abusing the system.

 

Many of the Thai immigration laws have been in existence for donkey`s years, all they`re doing now is starting to enforce them. They are also trying to close all loopholes which allows foreigners to buck the immigration requirements and system. I cannot in anyway see this as being an anti-foreigner campaign. 

 

It`s very simple, if like me expats have made provisions to legally financially support themselves in Thailand for as long as they wish to stay here, in my case forever, have substantial savings in-case of medical requirements and enough money put aside if in the eventuality the visa extension money in a Thai bank stakes increase and making allowances for low bank exchange rates, then they have no problems.

 

Thailand is not a grazing ground for old Farangs and others of little wealth, no one owes anyone else a living. Thailand want`s foreigners that are going to bring something of benefit into the country as does most other countries of the World. If a person rents an apartment the landlord expects to make a profit from that tenant, no pay, then no accommodation, the same applies to westerners residing in Thailand, no money, no honey and that`s the sad truth.

Well you seem like a law and order type of guy....Why stop here?..How many houses and land and business have farangs bought through Thai Companies,or bought through their wives through quasi legal lease agreements and god knows what other falling between the cracks means.....

There could be untold billions of dollars at stake....And one day the tightening will affect you to one way or another ,thats guaranteed..      

Edited October 8, 2018 by fforest1

[cyberfarang]

21 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Several Visa Agents on my Facebook page now are advising about the British Embassy tonight and one Agent is saying more Embassies will follow. Could all just be talk but the words out now. The effects are being felt already and like yourself, this is/could be very concerning for a lot of people. 

Yes, I saw those and I would say that many other embassies following this is definitely on the cards. Seems a lot of people are panicking now, including the corrupt agencies knowing that soon their gravy train will come to a grinding halt.

 

I can visualise there being loads more visa overstayers in Thailand, those who are unable to find the funds required. But no doubts B.J. won`t be far behind them. 

 

 

[Luckysilk]

27 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Several Visa Agents on my Facebook page now are advising about the British Embassy tonight and one Agent is saying more Embassies will follow. Could all just be talk but the words out now. The effects are being felt already and like yourself, this is/could be very concerning for a lot of people. 

Same same I sent my lawyer a quick email and his assistant got back to me and said they believe more will follow. 

 

I use the lump sum however have many friends both Brit and non Brit that is will impact.

 

One has already posted on FB that he needs to quick sell his condo to raise the funds - I felt for the guy as he's taking a loss but what can he do as his visa is up in March. 

[blorg]

28 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

And immigration just give the Chinese their own lane at the airport to make it more easy for them....lol   

The visa rules are a lot harder for the Chinese, despite the Chinese being the largest contributors both in terms of numbers and tourist $$$

[JackThompson]

55 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

...
Thailand is not a grazing ground for old Farangs and others of little wealth, no one owes anyone else a living. Thailand want`s foreigners that are going to bring something of benefit into the country as does most other countries of the World.

So, given no handouts to foreigners exist - so no "grazing" available at all - all foreigners who are not working-illegally should be welcome, then?  After all, they are either spending foreign-capital or starving outdoors, right? 

 

55 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

If a person rents an apartment the landlord expects to make a profit from that tenant, no pay, then no accommodation, the same applies to westerners residing in Thailand, no money, no honey and that`s the sad truth.

I completely agree with no handouts / freeloading - and wish we had those rules for foreigners (even illegal ones) in my passport-country.  But I don't see how that tallies with the rest of what you said, given we could not freeload here if we wanted to. 

 

We all pay landlords, or buy condos (and even then pay fees that employ Thais in a building with a Thai-majority making the decisions), or build homes on land owned by our Thai-wives.  Nearly every baht we spend goes to a Thai-owned business, and most expenditures have VAT in it, so we even pay the Thai govt directly - in addition to immigration-fees.

 

Where's the problem in need of a solution?

[Mark1066]

3 minutes ago, blorg said:

The visa rules are a lot harder for the Chinese, despite the Chinese being the largest contributors both in terms of numbers and tourist $$$

Yes and to be fair, Thai immigration officers haven't been demanding tips from us at the airports and punching us in the face either....

[Kadilo]

9 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Yes, I saw those and I would say that many other embassies following this is definitely on the cards. Seems a lot of people are panicking now, including the corrupt agencies knowing that soon their gravy train will come to a grinding halt.

 

I can visualise there being loads more visa overstayers in Thailand, those who are unable to find the funds required. But no doubts B.J. won`t be far behind them. 

 

 

He promised change and he’s wasted no time in delivering. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Kadilo

[FritsSikkink]

Oh what a bummer, you need to show some evidence that you have the money. Hardly fair, they should know they can trust everybody if they look them in the eye. (/sarcasm off/ for the persons who won't get it)

Edited October 8, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[David Walden]

9 hours ago, mfd101 said:

It's pretty obvious that, whatever it was called and whatever the Thai authorities thought or think (assuming they do), the annual declaration of income could not possibly be verified by ANY embassy even though you produce documents in support. Embassies are not a detective force. All ANY of them have ever done in reality is to witness YOUR signature on some form of affidavit or statutory declaration, with or without some supporting doco.

 

If the Thais NOW want REAL proof of income, then demonstration of funds moving more or less regularly into Thailand will be the only way to do it, I should think. Whether those funds have to touch down in a Thai financial institution is an interesting question. In my case, since my large-scale movement of funds for house building ended 18 months ago, I almost invariably use BKK Bank atms to debit from my Australian accounts for daily living funds. These rarely go into my BKK Bank account - I just take the cash & run. When I'm in BKK, I use Citibank atms so no cash touches down in a Thai institution.

 

But of course, I'm still bringing funds into Thailand & spending them here ...

I get my retirement multi entry "O' in Australia from the Thai Embassy in Canberra.  You can only get it from an Embassy not a Consul, some will say a Consul might accept and send it on to the Embassy but that is the end of the Consuls involvement and they don't like doing it. Retirement visa overseas from Thailand are only issued by an Embassy. 

    I have to get a medical from my Doctor $75, a police report $75 and passport photos etc, 36 pages of various documents all signed by a JP and pay $275.  All documents including the police report signed by the State police commissioner(s) "lacky" had to be signed by the JP as well as the doctors certificate, why I don't know the JP didn't see the doctor sign the medical certificate or the commissioner sign the police report, but a JP had to sign the original and each of the 6 copies with an original signature. The Embassy would not accept a signed document copied 6 times but would only accept 6 copies that had an original JP's signature on it.  just rubbish? 

     In addition I had to supply an original from my bank managed super fund showing that I had the required amount of funds available.  The JP who is my neighbour was furious signing 36 copies and more but did so.  He reminded me that he is only providing a service which has no fee to witness that he saw me sign that stat dec.  It is no concern to him what I am declaring, he is only witnessing that it is me that is making that declaration.  He also had to sign my bank managed super fund statement which really had nothing to do with him.

     I believe that the Australian Embassy in Bangkok now charges Bt3000 for witnessing a Stat Dec. used to be Bt1900.  Getting a Stat Dec from the Embassy is only attesting that they saw you sign the document an you have to make an appointment (my God how the money rolls in, In Aus this service is free). They are in no way concerned with what is contained in the details of the document.  It's none of their business and don't want to know, it's a joke you would think.

      The way things are going if you about to apply for a retirement visa, as silly as it seems and you don't want to or can't open an account in Thailand with Bt800,000 in it, this may turn out to be the simple way to get it...remember also that a Multi Entry "O" Retirement Visa can give a few days less then 2 years if you leave and return the day before your one year Retirement Visa expires.  If your a day late your RS,  Remember the day you arrive is not counted as a day, it's the day before 5555...TIT

   PS...you don't have to bring money into Thailand,  A bit complicated the first time but doable, but you  must be able to prove you have the money in a Bank or retirement fund.  There is no way around this the money must be real. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by David Walden

[cyberfarang]

36 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Well you seem like a law and order type of guy....Why stop here?..How many houses and land and business have farangs bought through Thai Companies,or bought through their wives through quasi legal lease agreements and god knows what other falling between the cracks means.....

There could be untold billions of dollars at stake....And one day the tightening will affect you to one way or another ,thats guaranteed..      

Many of the quasi so-called legal lease agreements are fraudulent. Farang married to a Thai wife, buys land and a house in her name, gets Thai wife to give him a long term lease agreement, Farang thinks he has got around the laws and he is safe. But no he is not and if I know it, so does immigration. These people are part of the problem that makes the immigration processes tougher for me each year and others like me that stay in Thailand by the book.

 

"There could be untold billions of dollars at stake". Are you serious? Untold billions in what, illegal land and business ownerships? Big foreign companies and legitimate foreign company owners that invest in Thailand do so in collaboration and with the approval of the Thai government, they employ Thai people, pay taxes and bring revenue into the country. I am sure these companies are not shaking in their boots over the British embassy notice issued today and neither am I. 

 

The old point of reasoning, Farangs that cannot meet the immigration requirements or live strictly by the laws, but because they are plying billions of dollars into the country and spend more than the locals should be overlooked, has how become like a bad joke that`s being told over and over again.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by cyberfarang

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

10 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

why don't you want to deposit the 800K in a thai bank? might be safer than US bank

[evadgib]

49 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

As I recall the letter says something along the lines that Mr Bloggs has shown us evidence that he receives a pension from whoever totaling £50,000 per year, the Consular Officer then signs the letter.
The Consular Officer doesn’t actually guarantee that the subject actually receives that amount, even though those using pension income have to submit evidence, in fact there is a disclaimer at the foot of the letter actually saying they can’t guarantee the figures.
I imagine that it this disclaimer that the Thai authorities find unsatisfactory, I suspect that the Consular Section have actually decided to stop providing the letter rather than guarantee the authenticity of the letters contents.
I don’t think that the Thai authorities have changed the rules, but are now looking for meaningful evidence, which the UK Officials are unwilling to commit to.
This is my take on the whole debacle, and my opinion only.

They explained some years ago to immigration that they (FCO) do not have the man hours or permission under data protection legislation to provide such tedious nonsense that serves no purpose whatsoever to the British Govt. If immigration cannot trust info from the likes of DWP/Pension providers direct they are going to have to get off their <deleted> and find a solution that actually works.

[Tanoshi]

Has anyone considered that the income letter from Embassies details gross figures.

If as I suspect, the Thai authorities want to see your income deposited in a Thai bank, the amounts will of course be nett.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

i heard that the thai authorities are going to require thai residents to pay income tax on all their income worldwide. a new law says that anyone who stays in thailand for more than 183 days a year, is considered thai resident for tax purposes and must pay - and declare !! - all his income all over the world.

that is why thai banks require now thai residency certificate to open an accoutn - they are preparing the legal ground to prosecute any bank account holder who resides in thailand.

that is also why they make you sign a document stating your net worth and earnings, when you open a bank account. this is a preparation for tax colllection and prosecution.

that is also why the immigration form for 30 days visa waiver asks you about your income - in case that you visit thailand more than 183 days a year, even on 30 days visa waiver, thai authorities can use this form to slap you with a tax law suit.

so maybe the british embassy is doing you all a favour when it stops the income declartion  - it does not want to give the thai goverment information and  power over your income abroad.

[Mark1066]

7 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i heard that the thai authorities are going to require thai residents to pay income tax on all their income worldwide. a new law says that anyone who stays in thailand for more than 183 days a year, is considered thai resident for tax purposes and must pay - and declare !! - all his income all over the world.

that is why thai banks require now thai residency certificate to open an accoutn - they are preparing the legal ground to prosecute any bank account holder who resides in thailand.

that is also why they make you sign a document stating your net worth and earnings, when you open a bank account. this is a preparation for tax colllection and prosecution.

that is also why the immigration form for 30 days visa waiver asks you about your income - in case that you visit thailand more than 183 days a year, even on 30 days visa waiver, thai authorities can use this form to slap you with a tax law suit.

so maybe the british embassy is doing you all a favour when it stops the income declartion  - it does not want to give the thai goverment information and  power over your income abroad.

You don't need a residency certificate to open a bank account here. Stop talking out of your hat. Certainly didn't three months ago anyway.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Mark1066

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i heard that the thai authorities are going to require thai residents to pay income tax on all their income worldwide. a new law says that anyone who stays in thailand for more than 183 days a year, is considered thai resident for tax purposes and must pay - and declare !! - all his income all over the world.

Unless something has changed, the law also says "if the money is remitted to Thailand in the year earned."  If you earned the money the year before you brought it in, no tax is due.  Money you don't bring in is not taxed at all.

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Unless something has changed, the law also says "if the money is remitted to Thailand in the year earned."  If you earned the money the year before you brought it in, no tax is due.  Money you don't bring in is not taxed at all.

Retired expats aren't filing Thai tax returns regardless of all that. Let's get real.

Of course the government here can change the rules. There are a number of nations that do tax expats on global income and sometimes even global assets. Ugh!

In any case aren't we getting really off the core issue here? What the British embassy announced and whether that bad news is soon going to spread to any or all other embassies. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

Yes, I saw those and I would say that many other embassies following this is definitely on the cards. Seems a lot of people are panicking now, including the corrupt agencies knowing that soon their gravy train will come to a grinding halt.

Hum... Seems to me that this Embassy decision should have the opposite effect, bringing them more costumers... . Many of the people who can't (or don't want) have 800'000B in Thailand will go to these "agencies" to solve their Extension problem.

[blackhorse]

My strong urging is for the British expats to not sit on your hands and start a petition and demand answers. Jam up the embassy switch boards tomorrow all day!!

Thai immigration have no such announcement.

THE ball is in your court ATM

[blorg]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

why don't you want to deposit the 800K in a thai bank?

For the better off, the 1.5% interest

For the worse off, they just don't have it

 

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the bank disappearing with your money, or having difficulty transferring it back out... there really is no problem there.

[blorg]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i heard that the thai authorities are going to require thai residents to pay income tax on all their income worldwide. a new law says that anyone who stays in thailand for more than 183 days a year, is considered thai resident for tax purposes and must pay - and declare !! - all his income all over the world.

This is nothing new. Stay over 180 days and you are Thai tax resident, whatever your visa. But it does not apply to foreign income not brought into Thailand. It does apply to pension income, by default, but some countries have an exception in their tax treaties that the home country will tax the pension. But this is how it always has been, they just have never shown any particular inclination to chase it up. 

>Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. 

 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

 

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

that is why thai banks require now thai residency certificate to open an accoutn - they are preparing the legal ground to prosecute any bank account holder who resides in thailand.

A "residency certificate" from immigration has absolutely nothing to do with tax residency. It's basically just a certification of your address. You can get a residency cert from immigration (in many provinces) even on a tourist exempt stamp, if you are only here for a week.

 

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

that is also why they make you sign a document stating your net worth and earnings, when you open a bank account.

Don't remember that one.

 

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

that is also why the immigration form for 30 days visa waiver asks you about your income

That is nothing new either and is there purely for TAT to use for planning purposes. It's not the "form for the 30 days visa waiver" either, it's the arrival card everyone fills in whatever visa they are on.

 

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

so maybe the british embassy is doing you all a favour when it stops the income declartion  - it does not want to give the thai goverment information and  power over your income abroad.

What is your opinion on contrails?

[cyberfarang]

27 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

My strong urging is for the British expats to not sit on your hands and start a petition and demand answers. Jam up the embassy switch boards tomorrow all day!!

Thai immigration have no such announcement.

THE ball is in your court ATM

The British embassy have already said they are discontinuing this service and why. Check out the notice on the OP again. So you have your answer. 

 

The bottom line here, is that expats are going to be required to have the prescribed funds in a Thai bank account during the prescribed periods. Can`t do, then no yearly extensions, end of story. What is so difficult to understand about that? Any protesting won`t change anything and also taking into consideration this does not affect all expats in Thailand, only a percentage.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by cyberfarang

[blackhorse]

The British embassy have already said they are discontinuing this service and why. Check out the notice on the OP again. So you have your answer. 

 

The bottom line here, is that expats are going to be required to have the prescribed funds in a Thai bank account during the prescribed periods. Can`t do, then no yearly extensions, end of story. What is so difficult to understand about that? Any protesting won`t change anything and also taking into consideration this does not affect all expats in Thailand, only a percentage.

 

 

Because the oz embassy were way ahead of brits and announced the same followed by a backflip.

 

If you let them drag you around by the nose happily then God knows what their next BS announcement will be and affecting a much larger percentage!

 

Hold them accountable but I guess I was expecting a weak response anyway

 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

2 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

You don't need a residency certificate to open a bank account here. Stop talking out of your hat. Certainly didn't three months ago anyway.

read the original post , it says there you need three things to open a bank account in thailand, one of them is residency certificate. as i mentioned, those might be new regulations coming now now.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Unless something has changed, the law also says "if the money is remitted to Thailand in the year earned."  If you earned the money the year before you brought it in, no tax is due.  Money you don't bring in is not taxed at all.

the law says that all money you earn all over the world must be declared and taxed in thailand.

only capital gains earned abroad are not taxed in thailand, as long as you don't bring them into

thailand in the same year you earned them.

but all other earnings, from work / business, must be taxed in thailand , if you are staying in thailand

for more than 183 days a year.

[Kadilo]

25 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

The British embassy have already said they are discontinuing this service and why. Check out the notice on the OP again. So you have your answer. 

 

The bottom line here, is that expats are going to be required to have the prescribed funds in a Thai bank account during the prescribed periods. Can`t do, then no yearly extensions, end of story. What is so difficult to understand about that? Any protesting won`t change anything and also taking into consideration this does not affect all expats in Thailand, only a percentage.

 

 

Where does it say on the OP attached link that the 65,000 /month has to be in a Thai bank account?

Edited October 8, 2018 by Kadilo

[SheungWan]

18 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

The British embassy have already said they are discontinuing this service and why. Check out the notice on the OP again. So you have your answer. 

The bottom line here, is that expats are going to be required to have the prescribed funds in a Thai bank account during the prescribed periods. Can`t do, then no yearly extensions, end of story. What is so difficult to understand about that? Any protesting won`t change anything and also taking into consideration this does not affect all expats in Thailand, only a percentage.

This seems to summarise things quite well. Looks like having the funds in Thailand for those wanting to stay in Thailand is heading to be the default for those on yearly extensions.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

1 hour ago, blorg said:

For the better off, the 1.5% interest

For the worse off, they just don't have it

 

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the bank disappearing with your money, or having difficulty transferring it back out... there really is no problem there.

i heard of few stories of money just disapearing from bank accounts, a erecent one involved a 100k baht deposit in bangkok bank pattaya, that just disapeared sometime later.

the problem in thailand is that the police protect mainly the rich and powerfull, and there is nothing much you can do if your money just disapears from your account (happans more than what banks all over the world would admit).