BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[sambum]

57 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Pensioners keeping Thailand afloat during the low season??!!

What colour is the sky on your planet?

Maybe an exaggeration but I see his point.

 

If for instance you get a relatively high spending tourist here on a 3 week holiday he will spend, shall we say 5000 baht a day on his holiday, so that's 21 x 5 = 105,000 baht. Add in the cost of his accommodation at app 2000 baht a day ( 42,000 baht) and you get a total of app 150,000 baht (147,000 baht) - and that is a bit on the high side - I know many tourists who don't spend that amount.

 

Compare that with the amount of money that pensioners/ex pats who are here all year round spend in the course of a year, and even at a lowly 40,000 baht a month that still totals 480,000 a year - 330,000 baht a year more than your above average tourist.

 

And the bulk of pensioners here support the Thai economy by renting from Thai landlords/landladies - not Western owned 5 Star hotels, and more often than not buy their food from Thai owned markets, or when eating out eat at Thai owned "noodle stalls/cafe" type establishments. 

 

If Thailand were suddenly to lose a great number of these contributors to the economy, I am sure that the waves would be felt even by the current Thai government, and also by the average Thai people whose income is substantially increased by the baht spent by the "old farangs"! 

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, VYCM said:

Why are people still blaming the Embassy, they are protecting themselves. 

Over the many years you have used this service the embassy has provided and now you all turn against it when things dont go your way.

 

I'm blaming the embassy because it's 100% their fault.

Things don't go our way? They've withdrawn the service. A bit more than "things don't go our way".

I suppose we should blame ourselves for being born British.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

I am aware of that, but you have slightly missed my point - the Thais have told the BE that the embassy letter as it stands is not good enough without proper verification of documents presented to obtain it, and thus if the Thais have told the BE that any application with the embassy letter will either lead to a rejection of an application to extend, or will require presentation of the supporting documents to the Thais, it renders the embassy letter useless either way.

Do you believe the uncorroborated BE report of a meeting with Thai Immigration that took place so many months ago?  Gee.  Look for who makes money off of this deal and then you will find the reasons.

[sambum]

41 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Pensioners keeping Thailand afloat during the low season??!!

What colour is the sky on your planet?

If you're going to quote somebody - do it properly!

 

The post states "HELPS keep Thailand afloat during the low season" - see my earlier post for more details!

[blackhorse]

I'm in Pattaya atm and every single bar is packed with 60 year olds. Take them away and it would be a ghost town until the rest of the world rocks up next month

[HAKAPALITA]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Do you believe the uncorroborated BE report of a meeting with Thai Immigration that took place so many months ago?  Gee.  Look for who makes money off of this deal and then you will find the reasons.

Hes a tad thick.. Read his other posts

[sambum]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I'm blaming the embassy because it's 100% their fault.

Things don't go our way? They've withdrawn the service. A bit more than "things don't go our way".

I suppose we should blame ourselves for being born British.

The fault is not 100% the fault of the Embassy, but they must bear the brunt of the responsibility.

They should be trying to put more reasonable measures into place apart from the "800,000 baht in a Thai bank" option, which leaves thousands of their citizens "up s**t creek without a paddle"! And the fact that they've known about this ultimatum from Thai Immigration that they should be responsible for verifying the statements of income since MAY is absolutely deplorable!

[Cricky]

10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I'm blaming the embassy because it's 100% their fault.

Things don't go our way? They've withdrawn the service. A bit more than "things don't go our way".

I suppose we should blame ourselves for being born British.

 

10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

4 hours ago, VYCM said:

Why are people still blaming the Embassy, they are protecting themselves. 

Over the many years you have used this service the embassy has provided and now you all turn against it when things dont go your way.

 

I'm blaming the embassy because it's 100% their fault.

Things don't go our way? They've withdrawn the service. A bit more than "things don't go our way".

I suppose we should blame ourselves for being born British.

No, no ,no, here we go again, feeling sorry for yourself.

If you must blame someone, blame it on the guys abusing the system, not contributing to the economy, false declarations etc.

How does the farang riding around with his wife on the noodle cart contribute, a Thai can do that just as well.

 

Thailand is very lucky, people are knocking at the door wanting to live in this beautiful country, they can be selective.

 

It's foolish to think the system will not change, why have you no plan B, C or D.

 

 

[Wanderlust]

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Do you believe the uncorroborated BE report of a meeting with Thai Immigration that took place so many months ago?  Gee.  Look for who makes money off of this deal and then you will find the reasons.

I tend to take the statements made by my embassy as being true, unless I have any compelling evidence to the contrary. The only people I can see with a chance of making money from this situation is the Thai banks and the agents, and even then there is an apparent clampdown on the agents. If you are suggesting that the British Embassy is somehow in cahoots with either of those in making this announcement, I'd politely suggest you've been drinking too much lao khao.

[marcusarelus]

19 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

I tend to take the statements made by my embassy as being true, unless I have any compelling evidence to the contrary. The only people I can see with a chance of making money from this situation is the Thai banks and the agents, and even then there is an apparent clampdown on the agents. If you are suggesting that the British Embassy is somehow in cahoots with either of those in making this announcement, I'd politely suggest you've been drinking too much lao khao.

Well on the surface the decision doesn't make any sense at all and is terribly anti British.  As for statements by the BE or British government being true?  You gotta be kidding me.  I don't know who would benefit but I do know who would lose - British citizens and their Thai families. I think we will eventually find out what really happened.  It's not a high level enough decision to be able to cover it up that long.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Wanderlust said:

There are, I assume, some countries that don't have any consular presence at all in Thailand, which begs the question - what do they do? Does anybody know?

Great question. But as I said before they may have a partner embassy that handles their business or a regional embassy in a neighboring nation. But if not, they must use the 800K bank account method. 

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, VYCM said:

 

No, no ,no, here we go again, feeling sorry for yourself.

If you must blame someone, blame it on the guys abusing the system, not contributing to the economy, false declarations etc.

How does the farang riding around with his wife on the noodle cart contribute, a Thai can do that just as well.

 

Thailand is very lucky, people are knocking at the door wanting to live in this beautiful country, they can be selective.

 

It's foolish to think the system will not change, why have you no plan B, C or D.

 

 

I feel sorry for myself and several thousand British expats shafted by the British Embassy. How does the withdrawal of these letters affect those not contributing to the economy and making false declarations?

 

People who don't have the means to live here use a Thai agent to obtain their visas, not apply to the British Embassy for an income letter, which is proof positive that they do have the means to support themselves and contribute to the Thai economy. I've never heard anyone making a false declaration to obtain an income letter, have you?

 

I and many others do have a plan B but it's far more onerous than simply sending a form and £52 to the British Embassy and receiving a letter that will satisfy Thai Immigration.

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

I am aware of that, but you have slightly missed my point - the Thais have told the BE that the embassy letter as it stands is not good enough without proper verification of documents presented to obtain it, and thus if the Thais have told the BE that any application with the embassy letter will either lead to a rejection of an application to extend, or will require presentation of the supporting documents to the Thais, it renders the embassy letter useless either way.

"without proper verification of documents presented to obtain it"

 

This statement is what is at the heart of the matter. The Embassy are saying that they do not have the manpower or the time to physically check all the documents presented to them as Proof of Income.

 

Would one way round this not be to to ask the applicant to also provide the Embassy with a signed and dated letter from the Pension provider, or Bank or Funds provider to verify that the details are correct? I realise that photocopies of Bank statements etc are difficult to replicate anyway, but surely a signed and dated letter in addition to original documents would be enough to satisfy Immigration (knowing how much they like paperwork!) In this way, the Embassy could say that they have made arrangements to have the documents verified in that respect, (at no extra cost or use of time by themselves) The only other hurdle as far as I understand it, is the onus of responsibility, and in all fairness, the Embassy could say that they have done all in their power to ensure that the details are correct (not just accept photocopies at face value etc) and if the Thai Immigration are not prepared to accept that, it would appear that they are asking the British Embassy to be responsible for all the behaviour of all of its citizens - an impossible task!

[galt67]

5 hours ago, Wanderlust said:

Reading some of the posts it seems that the belief is that an application to extend on the basis of income has a requirement that the funds originate outside of Thailand; I'm not trying to say that is incorrect, but where in either official websites or paperwork does it specify this? I can't find it, along with the requirement that an embassy letter needs to be provided. Is this only something that they request 'on the ground'?

 

From the US Embassy BKK site:

 

According to Thai immigration, applicants must meet the following qualifications:

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

Further, for Americans, the 'Income Affidavit' indicates the 'sources of funds are from the United States.'

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

I tend to take the statements made by my embassy as being true, unless I have any compelling evidence to the contrary. The only people I can see with a chance of making money from this situation is the Thai banks and the agents, and even then there is an apparent clampdown on the agents. If you are suggesting that the British Embassy is somehow in cahoots with either of those in making this announcement, I'd politely suggest you've been drinking too much lao khao.

You take statements by our Embassy as true? Mug. Is it true that the American Embassy will be following suit? is it true that Immigration will be accepting entries in your Thai bank book as evidence of your 65k baht monthly income?

 

The only people I can see making money from this is the British Embassy. The supplying of income letters was a zero sum service. Cutting it has cost them nothing. They will make a saving on office accommodation, which they need to do as they're moving to a much smaller Embassy, and a reduction in staff salaries. Do you really think that it's a coincidence that they're cutting this service at a time when they're moving to new, smaller accommodation?

 

What a muppet!

[Joe Mcseismic]

44 minutes ago, sambum said:

Maybe an exaggeration but I see his point.

 

If for instance you get a relatively high spending tourist here on a 3 week holiday he will spend, shall we say 5000 baht a day on his holiday, so that's 21 x 5 = 105,000 baht. Add in the cost of his accommodation at app 2000 baht a day ( 42,000 baht) and you get a total of app 150,000 baht (147,000 baht) - and that is a bit on the high side - I know many tourists who don't spend that amount.

 

Compare that with the amount of money that pensioners/ex pats who are here all year round spend in the course of a year, and even at a lowly 40,000 baht a month that still totals 480,000 a year - 330,000 baht a year more than your above average tourist.

 

And the bulk of pensioners here support the Thai economy by renting from Thai landlords/landladies - not Western owned 5 Star hotels, and more often than not buy their food from Thai owned markets, or when eating out eat at Thai owned "noodle stalls/cafe" type establishments. 

 

If Thailand were suddenly to lose a great number of these contributors to the economy, I am sure that the waves would be felt even by the current Thai government, and also by the average Thai people whose income is substantially increased by the baht spent by the "old farangs"! 

......and of course, all that is just a drop in the ocean to the actual Thai economy. You know.....stuff like agriculture, construction, manufacturing, service industries and on and on and on.

Funny how so many foreigners grossly over-estimate their importance and contributions to this country. Maybe it's a symptom of a sense of self-importance.

[Wanderlust]

It seems to me that the only thing anyone can do now is wait and see what happens from now on, and what different responses people get to their enquiries and applications from the various immigration offices and officers, both with regard to what they will accept, if anything, in lieu of the embassy letter, as well as if other nationalities have any difficulties when presenting their letters/declarations. While I think the petition that has been set up is a good effort, if it turns out that the Thais start not accepting the letters as proof from anyone, it becomes a moot point, but only time will tell.

[flipside555]

14 minutes ago, sambum said:

Would one way round this not be to to ask the applicant to also provide the Embassy with a signed letter from the Pension provider, or Bank or Funds provider to verify that the details are correct?

It's easy to see why the BE is not prepared to verify income details. As it said in its statement, this income could come from anywhere in the world. It could be in any bank in any currency. Documentation could be in any language. And then, what constitutes "verification"? If an employee in the BE sees a document that look official, looks as though it has an official signature, is that enough? On the basis of that, can the BE be expected to state that it  has verified the income? I don't think so, and I don't it should be expected to. None of this the responsibility of the BE or its employees.

[Jingthing]

People bringing hard currency into the country and spending money creates jobs. Lots of jobs. That includes tourists and foreign residents. Foreign residents also set up households which is very stimulative. But I agree Thailand could if they wanted to kick out all retired foreigners without noticeable pain. Certainly compared to tourism which they will always badly need. 

[Wanderlust]

6 minutes ago, galt67 said:

From the US Embassy BKK site:

 

According to Thai immigration, applicants must meet the following qualifications:

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

Further, for Americans, the 'Income Affidavit' indicates the 'sources of funds are from the United States.'

I did, of course, mean Thai immigration or Thai government sources, but thank you for the information.

[flipside555]

4 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Remove all the local farangs from tourist towns and you would see tumbleweeds in low season

Really?

[CharlieH]

Posts removed/and responses

 

Lets have less of the snide comments please..

[sulidine]

hi first post after 19 years thai .just little inf  if your visa end april2019 you can go for u k letter up till 12 dec letter will see you ok 4 6 months in jomtien xx

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, sulidine said:

hi first post after 19 years thai .just little inf  if your visa end april2019 you can go for u k letter up till 12 dec letter will see you ok 4 6 months in jomtien xx

Six months.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, flipside555 said:

Really?

How is the link relevant to low season?

[Naam]

On 10/10/2018 at 4:17 PM, Jingthing said:

On 10/10/2018 at 4:13 PM, Tiredofglasshalfemptyexpat said:

If you've less than 800k to your name you should be home anyway with your home state nannying you.  

You're making a lot of offensive insinuations. People often have large assets back home as well and have reasons for not wanting to lock up 800K here. 

personal reasons do not break laws and regulations. by the way way... most of these personal reasons i've read in this forum are just ridiculous.

[blackhorse]

Really?

Care to explain your link.?

[flipside555]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

How is the link relevant to low season?

 

3 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

1 hour ago, flipside555 said:

Really?

Care to explain your link.?

The link shows the relative number of tourists by country. Low-season, mid-season, or high-season the number of Asian tourists far outweighs Farang tourists. China alone has 10 times the number of British and American tourists.  Farangs are not as important to the Thai economy as some people would like to think they are.

 

Meanwhile, back on topic...

[Jingthing]

personal reasons do not break laws and regulations. by the way way... most of these personal reasons i've read in this forum are just ridiculous.

Everyone's personal finances are just that -- personal. The range of variations and personal situations is staggering. Governments makes rules and we are forced to meet those rules or face the consequences.

 

 

[blackhorse]

The link shows the relative number of tourists by country. Low-season, mid-season, or high-season the number of Asian tourists far outweighs Farang tourists. China alone has 10 times the number of British and American tourists.  Farangs are not as important to the Thai economy as some people would like to think they are.

 

Meanwhile, back on topic...

LMAO. I'm in Pattaya and the resteraunts and bars are 99 % full of OLD white men

 

Kick those dudes out and they would 99% EMPTY.

 

How about coming to live here for more than 2 weeks and use your eyes where tourist numbers count , not some village dump