UK govt petitioned to reinstate proof of income letters for British expats in Thailand

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

wonder who has signed this petition....I'm guessing folk who do not have 400K or 800K to lodge in bank fr a few months. What I cannot understand is that Thailand is not a cheap place to live, how the hell can you survive on 400 or 800K per year. What do you do all day long? I go to Tesco every a few times a week and am astonished at the prices....go back home to Aldi and food are less than half price....clothing is less than half price....booze bought in a supermarket is at least as cheap and yes, cigs are more expensive, unless you but them in the pub from a bloke. Why on earth would you want to be poor in Thailand?

You really don't have any understanding of the expat community in Thailand- Many of us started coming to Thailand in the 60s and 70s.  The Us Dollar exchange rate was 20 Thai Baht to 1 Dollar in those days. I have estimated spending about 50 Million Thai Baht in Thailand on houses; condos; cars; support of wife and children and extended families. I am far from wealthy but worked hard my whole life.  I have worked all over Asia and in the US.

I can survive easily and well on 65K per month- as I have all my cars; houses and condos fully paid. I also have land assets in my wifes name  which produces income for my extended family. I neither need nor want the income.  What am I going to do with it- eat in another restaurant- take a trip to somewhere I have already been.

 

Thailand is cheap as hell to live as long as you eat Thai food and know how to speak Thai.  Had I not spent monies on fixed assets and married, I would have a huge bank account.

 

Please don't make statements regarding other  posters assets and situation because you know nothing about any of us.

 

[Pedrogaz]

5 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

I have used the proof of income this two years as it was simple to do. I will just go back to the other method of 800K.

 

However, that is not my point of making comment here. I certainly recall that the Embassy well covered themselves in the letter they gave to British nationals for Thai immigration stating that the document was produced on evidence of funds supplied by the British citizen.

 

I myself included bank statements from various countries downloaded from accessing my accounts on the different banks' websites.

 

I will not complain as I feel it will be useless as I have had contacts with the British Embassy on many different matters and on many levels from the lowest to the highest. What I do think, and I hope to be wrong, the British Embassy will not reverse this for a few British nationals and will take the view, ' Don't rely on us, have the correct funds and/or documentation to satisfy Thai immigration '  and that will be it.

 

The ' old chestnut ' about ' How dare they ' and them working for the taxpaying British citizens won't work either. As far as they are concerned in Bangkok, they are here for trade deals, smooth relations and a presence in the Far East.

 

They are not interested in ' Brits in the shit '

Accepted...but why on earth should the British Embassy bail out all these potless people who want to come to Thailand, go with the girls and avoid legitimate requirements of the Thai government. Like to or not, Thailand has an income requirement for people who want to be resident here....if you don't meet it then go home. Sorry but it is just a statement of fact. I for one having followed all the rules have zero sympathy for people who want to come here with less than the required income. Simples

[dontoearth]

7 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Forget the petitions. Look at the reasoning behind the decision.

 

Immigration require irrevokable proof that the foreigner does receive the income that is stated on the letter. The British Embassy are not able to provide that proof.

 

It is NOT the Embassies fault.

 

It is quite easy to fabricate a document for submission the the Embassy showing you are in receipt of £xxx, which is not true and it is highly likely this has been done on many occasions, giving rise to Immigration requiring proof rather than just a letter certifying the information given to them.

 

 

    It is quite easy to fabricate a receipt for the Thai immigration service also.  It is just a case of Thai immigration trying to make their problem someone else's problem.  If they ever move entirely to Thai Bank only statements than they can eliminate a lot of tampered and altered documents, but not all!

    In the USA a notary can sign anything including your statement that you are royalty, saw flying saucers, are running for Pope, because the notary is only attesting to the identity of the signer of the document.  You do need a photo id.  If the document is long like financial instruments such a mortgages they don't even ask to look at it here in the US.

    My accountant started to use a sign-off form with accepting your processed records for tax that clearly stated you were responsible for all documentation and all statements being truthfully attested to on the forms.  He got himself out of any hot water and responsibility and it looks like the embassy could simply use such a form.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Accepted...but why on earth should the British Embassy bail out all these potless people who want to come to Thailand, go with the girls and avoid legitimate requirements of the Thai government. Like to or not, Thailand has an income requirement for people who want to be resident here....if you don't meet it then go home. Sorry but it is just a statement of fact. I for one having followed all the rules have zero sympathy for people who want to come here with less than the required income. Simples

All of the people affected by the British Embassy decision do meet the legitimate financial requirements of the Thai Government. The just can't prove it due to the lunacy of the British Embassy. Do you have sympathy for them, or do you just want an aimless rant that has zero to do with this topic?

[Spidey]

25 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Electricity. About 11000 a month for the aircon.

I pay 3k/month and have 4 aircon units, one runs pretty much continuously and 2 more run 8 hours per day.

Sounds like you've got a problem.

[ginjag]

8 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Accepted...but why on earth should the British Embassy bail out all these potless people who want to come to Thailand, go with the girls and avoid legitimate requirements of the Thai government. Like to or not, Thailand has an income requirement for people who want to be resident here....if you don't meet it then go home. Sorry but it is just a statement of fact. I for one having followed all the rules have zero sympathy for people who want to come here with less than the required income. Simples

Simples are, Immigration accepting your proof of income seeing your bank statement showing the pension Direct debit, as in my case a UK bank sending the monthly statement to my Thai address.....So it will show if you have sufficient funds. This is all they wish to see --easy and simple.     why all this embassy etc BS.

the then letter from the Thai bank showing the said amount that has been there for 90 days.   Plus your proof of residence.----any other comments are irrelevant regarding quote girls--potless--go home etc.

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

Simples are, Immigration accepting your proof of income seeing your bank statement showing the pension Direct debit, as in my case a UK bank sending the monthly statement to my Thai address.....So it will show if you have sufficient funds. This is all they wish to see --easy and simple.     why all this embassy etc BS.

the then letter from the Thai bank showing the said amount that has been there for 90 days.   Plus your proof of residence.----any other comments are irrelevant regarding quote girls--potless--go home etc.

Unfortunately Thai Immigration won't accept any of that. They need to see an income letter from your embassy to confirm that you have 65k baht month income. Nothing else will do unless you want 800k bat sat in a Thai bank account for 3 months of the year.

[ginjag]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I pay 3k/month and have 4 aircon units, one runs pretty much continuously and 2 more run 8 hours per day.

Sounds like you've got a problem.

Sounds also that you have a problem, I use aircon 1k a month, BUT  my windows internal doors are closed, and only use for sleeping, daytime good fans and windows open  (meshed).   who needs air con if gardening--out shopping ??,  cool showers 3 times a day also help,  cold drinks.  I am comfortable with this.  Udon has cool nights for 3 months so no air con used.  depends if you have family and if you are in BKK, stifling.  I am single so it is easier

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Sounds also that you have a problem, I use aircon 1k a month, BUT  my windows internal doors are closed, and only use for sleeping, daytime good fans and windows open  (meshed).   who needs air con if gardening--out shopping ??,  cool showers 3 times a day also help,  cold drinks.  I am comfortable with this.  Udon has cool nights for 3 months so no air con used.  depends if you have family and if you are in BKK, stifling.  I am single so it is easier

 

[ginjag]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Unfortunately Thai Immigration won't accept any of that. They need to see an income letter from your embassy to confirm that you have 65k baht month income. Nothing else will do unless you want 800k bat sat in a Thai bank account for 3 months of the year.

Wrong,  if your income is say 25,000 a month  to prove and the rest is in a Thai bank example 555,000  it is acceptable, so the nothing else will do is a myth.    

If there is a problem Immigration should revise the rule to see a better proof of your pension.   My suggestion is a UK bank statement with envelope to your Thai address,  showing the said pension that was deposited by the pension department to your UK bank.  I receive my monthly statement by post from the UK.   This also could be used as proof of address rather than deeds or lease papers.

[stereolab]

5 hours ago, Nurseynutcase said:

I provide the British embassy with all of my annual P60's and the rental agreement on my house in the UK.  None of these are bogus - my NI(national Insurance) number is printed on each one of the forms.  I will not receive my State Pension until I am 66(2 years time).

 

I came to live in Thailand because it is cheaper than living in the UK.  The forms I provide are my actual income.  Yes I could transfer it all to a Thai bank account but from what I have read it is so difficult to get it back to the country of origin.

 

Also even with my high spending lifestyle I do not spend 65,000 baht a month on living expenses.

 

I will be OK until next November 2019 and then I will have to rethink my position here.

 

Thailand will lose out if I and many others like me decide to decamp and go to another country,

It would be a simple task for the BE to confirm the authenticity of the provided P60.  I am sure they could easily access the main P60 database in the UK.  Once they have completed this check,  they should issue the letter, very straightforward. For a lot of UK expats, their only income would be supported by P60s. 

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

Wrong,  if your income is say 25,000 a month  to prove and the rest is in a Thai bank example 555,000  it is acceptable, so the nothing else will do is a myth.    

If there is a problem Immigration should revise the rule to see a better proof of your pension.   My suggestion is a UK bank statement with envelope to your Thai address,  showing the said pension that was deposited by the pension department to your UK bank.  I receive my monthly statement by post from the UK.   This also could be used as proof of address rather than deeds or lease papers.

And how do you prove the 25k month. Embassy letter.

[Spidey]

Just now, stereolab said:

It would be a simple task for the BE to confirm the authenticity of the provided P60.  I am sure they could easily access the main P60 database in the UK.  Once they have completed this check,  they should issue the letter, very straightforward. For a lot of UK expats, their only income would be supported by P60s. 

Exactly what I do for my proof of income. Try telling that to the British Embassy.

[RichardColeman]

Thai immigration should seriously look at retirees and income in a more objective light.

 

Do retirees living here claim any Thai benefits - No.

Do retirees take Thai people's job -No.

Are retirees making problems for immigration - No.

Do retirees contribute finacially to the thai economy - Yes.

Do retirees support Thai families - yes lots do.

Should it matter if a retiree had 30k or 100k a month - No , not really, as long as he is happy living his life on his income and can finanically support himself and/or his family.

 

I live in Pattaya, and there does not seem to be a day going past that I do not see businesses closing or mass signs on condo buildings for rent and sale, I see empty malls, empty cinemas and lots of empty bars. 

 

Getting rid of those low income retirees does not in any way benefit Thailand. I see many people bashing those on low incomes, saying that they should not be here - seriously ? Are you that so high strung in your own ego ? Does it really matter what income others have to you ? get a life.

 

In what way do low income, honest retirees actually effect Thailand ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[moe666]

7 hours ago, Formaleins said:

I cannot see how this is going to make any difference whatsoever, even if the British Embassy  rescind and agree to issue the letters.

 

The letters as far as it would appear are worthless to the Thai Immigration in the form that they are currently issued.

 

I may be wrong but I interpret this as the Thai government requesting a formal document that CAN BE GUARANTEED to be a correct assessment of an applicants income. Even if the Embassy continues to issue the current letter, they have already stated that they CANNOT GUARANTEE that the information is correct.

 

All Thai immigration need to do is to refuse to accept them as genuine proof of income - This seems to be the way they are pushing. Everyone knows that for years the American and the Australians have been in the enviable position where they are able to receive a visa extension based on a letter from their embassy that bares absolutely no guarantee as yo their true income.

 

Basically, while everyone else has had to comply with the 400 or 800K in a Thai bank, or proof of 40K or 65K per month income, these other countries citizens could just pluck a figure out of the air, with no documents to back it up, and yet their embassy would give them a "Proof of Income" letter, which up until now has been good enough for Thai Immigration.

 

This to me is where the main changes lie. The Immigration are no longer willing to accept letters from the embassies unless they are genuine and guaranteed.

What you are leaving out is that if American and I raised my hand and swore this amount is true and accurate but I lied I am now subject to procecution for lying about a official document.

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

And how do you prove the 25k month. Embassy letter.

With the annual pension statement that is posted to me stating the said amount, this is forwarded to the Embassy to confirm.   If the embassy are reluctant to do the service or there is a problem with if it is legit maybe the bank statement backed up with the yearly confirmation  should be enough   BUT  suppose Immigration could make it easier--NOT through loop holes.....to be satisfied with this info.....My thinking is not Thai Thinking, Their method is loads of paperwork flying in many directions.

[dontoearth]

2 minutes ago, ginjag said:

With the annual pension statement that is posted to me stating the said amount, this is forwarded to the Embassy to confirm.   If the embassy are reluctant to do the service or there is a problem with if it is legit maybe the bank statement backed up with the yearly confirmation  should be enough   BUT  suppose Immigration could make it easier--NOT through loop holes.....to be satisfied with this info.....My thinking is not Thai Thinking, Their method is loads of paperwork flying in many directions.

  And all that paperwork  will be confusing and contradictory and processed at the whim of a clerk at a desk who can't explain anything to you at all.

[ginjag]

6 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Thai immigration should seriously look at retirees and income in a more objective light.

 

Do retirees living here claim any Thai benefits - No.

Do retirees take Thai people's job -No.

Are retirees making problems for immigration - No.

Do retirees contribute finacially to the thai economy - Yes.

Do retirees support Thai families - yes lots do.

Should it matter if a retiree had 30k or 100k a month - No , not really, as long as he is happy living his life on his income and can finanically support himself and/or his family.

 

I live in Pattaya, and there does not seem to be a day going past that I do not see businesses closing or mass signs on condo buildings for rent and sale, I see empty malls, empty cinemas and lots of empty bars. 

 

Getting rid of those low income retirees does not in any way benefit Thailand. I see many people bashing those on low incomes, saying that they should not be here - seriously ? Are you that so high strung in your own ego ? Does it really matter what income others have to you ? get a life.

 

In what way do low income, honest retirees actually effect Thailand ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Brilliant, exactly my thinking, and their monthly spending is going into the pockets of local people then back into the treasury.  The emphasis on  Chinese pre booked visitors is ridiculous compared to the lower income ex-pats spending.

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, ginjag said:

If the embassy are reluctant to do the service or there is a problem with if it is legit maybe the bank statement backed up with the yearly confirmation  should be enough

No. It's an embassy letter or nothing and that isn't going to change. Thai Immigration isn't going to change the process because one Embassy wants to save money.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Pedrogaz said:

Electricity. About 11000 a month for the aircon.

Housing is normally the largest expense.  How much is yours? My point is Thailand is cheap when you compare housing and that is the #1 budget item for anyone.

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

  And all that paperwork  will be confusing and contradictory and processed at the whim of a clerk at a desk who can't explain anything to you at all.

Or understand any of the paperwork.

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

No. It's an embassy letter or nothing and that isn't going to change. Thai Immigration isn't going to change the process because one Embassy wants to save money.

No problem  as I have to next October  to consider my long term status, but the new immigration chief could change things if they think the embassy letter is near worthless because of definite proof is not really confirmed.    Embassy is raking it in,   immigration has always wanted to know how many teeth your granny had when she died  LOL

[Spidey]

Just now, ginjag said:

No problem  as I have to next October  to consider my long term status, but the new immigration chief could change things if they think the embassy letter is near worthless because of definite proof is not really confirmed.    Embassy is raking it in,   immigration has always wanted to know how many teeth your granny had when she died  LOL

Embassy makes nothing on the income letter the £50 is taken up by administration costs.

 

I have until Christmas 2019 to resolve the problem as I have a house and family here and Thailand is my home. Probably need to put 1m baht in my Thai bank account next September. However, I really can't see this problem persisting until then and am optimistic that it will have all gone away by next September.

[Rawairat]

Other embassy’s have a statutory declaration which I guess puts the onus on the person declaring they have the funds required . Can the British embassy consulate not do this . It would avoid them  having to investigate the individuals financial status. 

[ginjag]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Embassy makes nothing on the income letter the £50 is taken up by administration costs.

 

I have until Christmas 2019 to resolve the problem as I have a house and family here and Thailand is my home. Probably need to put 1m baht in my Thai bank account next September. However, I really can't see this problem persisting until then and am optimistic that it will have all gone away by next September.

55 quid......sent ems Thai express ADMIN costs, makes nothing to process a letter with a stamp on it. ??

If it was my private business and had that many pass through my hands at the wages they pay I would be worth Billions

[CharlieH]

Off topic removed.

[oldlakey]

10 hours ago, darksidedog said:

No great surprise there. Do very little and comment about the shrinking services even less.

In the meanwhile expats can apparently sink or swim on their own.

"expats" is the big clue as far as our prospects are concerned

[Greenhill]

7 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

You have to show documents showing you get £xxx pounds from  a, £xxxx from b , £xxx from c etc.  It may be fraud, but anyone can produce a document from an alleged fictitious company stating you receive such and such pension. The Embassy CANNOT check the authenticity of such information.  Therefore they are stopping the letters.

But they can check it if you provide original bank statements that show the income from those various companies!!

Is that not irrefutable proof????

[CGW]

1 minute ago, Greenhill said:

But they can check it if you provide original bank statements that show the income from those various companies!!

Is that not irrefutable proof????

That is why they are stopping the letters, yes they "could" check but they don't have or don't want to employ the resources required to do a physical check! 

[Greenhill]

2 minutes ago, CGW said:

That is why they are stopping the letters, yes they "could" check but they don't have or don't want to employ the resources required to do a physical check! 

How long does it take to check 3 months bank statements and see the 'highlighted' lines that come from either State pension (NI number) or well known insurance companies or previous company private pensions?    If I were to be generous, I would say 10 minutes and for that we used to pay £54!!    Sounds like it would be worth employing some people on that basis and make a very nice profit!