Thailand losing favour among expats: HSBC survey

[Sighto]

This survey should split between working expats (looking for job security, career progression...) and retirement (health care,etc).

 

[smutcakes]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe if Thailand made it easier for old people to come live here then they would boost their economy more and fill up all the empty condos and malls

I hardly think having 800K in the bank is a major impediment to people coming, and if it is they are hardly losing out to people who are going to boost the economy much.

[stropper]

3 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Agree with Patongo, visa is a hassle,and this stupid 90 day reporting, my immigration office and the one i used before that brought in a 'service' whereby you pay a fee [no receipt} and they put your name in a big book and your 90 day slip turns up in the post,now i guess that will be gone due to Big joke. Every year the rules seem to change just to cause the applicant more hassle,compare this to the Philippines 1 month on arrival,then you can extend "how long would you like sir" no financials asked for,so you get a year go back get another and go back get another after 3 years you leave 24 hours enough and it starts all over again.

Secondly Thailand is no longer cheap for many things,electric maybe slightly less than Aussie,water very cheap,no rates,but i recently built a house and it cost me around 120,000 to transfer chanotes on land of house under construction and another i own opposite. Beer 65b for a large Singa thats nearly 3 dollars Aussie,dont know how much a long neck costs back there now but not to bad,of course i live up country so much cheaper than Bangkok,Phuket ect,but it is not as cheap as it was. The hassle of doing simple things as often you have to have a Thai with you as the English skills are so poor and i can speak a fair bit of Thai but not fluently,too be honest there are days i wonder what the hell i am doing here.

listen matee, do your self a favor and get back to aus and see what it costs, stubbie in bar $7, long necks  3 for $21 ,try doing a land transfer, taxs are ridiculous, i am a ex builder and i know 80bucks an hour is cheap, thailand has become more expensive and so has every where else, but if you do not like how the thais run THERE COUNTY go home ! it is heaven here, every body every where is complaining,why, because they want to much and owe to much!

[Gandtee]

2 hours ago, peter14 said:

Rich retired then with 800 k into show in bank. Not everyone can do that..

I am fortunate to have my Thai in laws to help me with that. This is a reversal of the many stories of farangs being the cash cow.

[twig]

 

+1 on the survey. Spent a solid year in Land of Something and left for reasons I wrote here before, and then some.

No plans to come back except for a business trip; wouldn't come back even for a vacation.

 

Thailand is way overrated for expats in all aspects of life in my experience.

[marko kok prong]

6 minutes ago, stropper said:

listen matee, do your self a favor and get back to aus and see what it costs, stubbie in bar $7, long necks  3 for $21 ,try doing a land transfer, taxs are ridiculous, i am a ex builder and i know 80bucks an hour is cheap, thailand has become more expensive and so has every where else, but if you do not like how the thais run THERE COUNTY go home ! it is heaven here, every body every where is complaining,why, because they want to much and owe to much!

You forgot to say 'and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out' By the way MATEE i owe nothing to anyone okay MATEE!

[Jonnapat]

3 hours ago, HAKAPALITA said:

HSBC isnt much use here im told.Only one office.

Due to government restrictions on foreign banks 

[727Sky]

You have to wonder who will be happy when they drive many of the expats out of country ? You think the Chinese who come and stay for a week or two on tour will make up the difference of the expats who buy a house and raise and support their extended Thai families ?

It is their country and they can do whatever they think is right whether we expats like it or not.. We can vote with our feet as there are plenty of green pastures just over the horizon.

I promised myself 45 years ago that one day I would return to Thailand. I have been back in country now since 2010.. I get bored, tired of idiot drivers and badly planned roads and traffic.. But.. you can find those things in any country. So here I am and so far no problems...

 

I can not imagine coming to Asia and trying to find a job unless it was with an international company who gave you the job offer to come.

 

Now having said all that I have never had a problem The cops have been considerate and nice to me as well as the government officials I have had contact with..

 

The Embassies saying they can not verify funds is technically correct I suppose but so what. If a guy is good enough to go and get the income verification letter and pay the 1500 Baht for the notarized letter to be legal then what is the beef especially if he has lived in country for ??? years and never had a problem ?

 

Maybe I am missing something ?

 

 

 

 

 

[dallen52]

7 hours ago, PatOngo said:

No mention of visa requirements which is making Thailand less expat friendly? 

Just back in the UK for a family funeral and talking about the survey.

 

My brother and his wife cannot understand why we put ourselves through the hoops just to live in Thailand.?

 

Money in Thai bank. 

65,000 b income.

Border runs. 

Non O visas etc.

Retirement extension. 

90 day reporting. 

Report residence. 

Carry I.d. All times.

Random stops on the street. 

Corrupt police system and cash fines in the pocket. 

Crap exchange rates.

Needs for private insurance. 

Cash up front at public hospitals.

The soi dog's. 

Rubbish on the streets.

Crazy bike drivers..

 

I will stop there and see if I can think of the positives. 

 

*I think he is currently winning the argument. 

 

[observer90210]

Perhaps some humility to raise up the sense of hospitality may arise,  with expats not comming to Thailand ... but obviously, if nobody cares, awareness may come up once it's critical and too late...

[dallen52]

1 hour ago, stropper said:

what are you talking about, it is easy to get a visa in thailand, if you abide by the rules, try getting a thai a visa to aus or gb, if you are secure it is easy, if not go home and get back on welfare!

Very little hassle with getting a visa to take a Thai friend to Australia. 

Done it several times and advised friends on the way to do it. Multiple entry. 

If you can sponsor the application and show reason why the person will return to Thailand, you are almost always going to get it. Works every time for me.

 

If you walk into VFS looking like a bar girl displaying the trades assets, tatts, you are basically doomed.

Because they do one on one interview now.

 

UK visa is a little bit tougher, but, still easily do able, if you follow the rules and tick the boxes.

One in one interview too.

 

And oh, this is one area an agent plus 20,000 fee will not guarantee the visa.

So do it yourself. 

[SupermarineS6B]

4 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Agree with Patongo, visa is a hassle,and this stupid 90 day reporting, my immigration office and the one i used before that brought in a 'service' whereby you pay a fee [no receipt} and they put your name in a big book and your 90 day slip turns up in the post,now i guess that will be gone due to Big joke. Every year the rules seem to change just to cause the applicant more hassle,compare this to the Philippines 1 month on arrival,then you can extend "how long would you like sir" no financials asked for,so you get a year go back get another and go back get another after 3 years you leave 24 hours enough and it starts all over again.

Secondly Thailand is no longer cheap for many things,electric maybe slightly less than Aussie,water very cheap,no rates,but i recently built a house and it cost me around 120,000 to transfer chanotes on land of house under construction and another i own opposite. Beer 65b for a large Singa thats nearly 3 dollars Aussie,dont know how much a long neck costs back there now but not to bad,of course i live up country so much cheaper than Bangkok,Phuket ect,but it is not as cheap as it was. The hassle of doing simple things as often you have to have a Thai with you as the English skills are so poor and i can speak a fair bit of Thai but not fluently,too be honest there are days i wonder what the hell i am doing here.

Yep, i think many people are asking the same question...... Why am i here ?  Malaysia, Free visas, house and car ownership, law and order, rights, etc,etc.......... Why am i here ? 

[inThailand]

4 hours ago, peter14 said:

Rich retired then with 800 k into show in bank. Not everyone can do that..

If you don't have 800k then you should move to another cheaper country  rather than taint the rest of us. 

[rosst]

4 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Agree with Patongo, visa is a hassle,and this stupid 90 day reporting, my immigration office and the one i used before that brought in a 'service' whereby you pay a fee [no receipt} and they put your name in a big book and your 90 day slip turns up in the post,now i guess that will be gone due to Big joke. Every year the rules seem to change just to cause the applicant more hassle,compare this to the Philippines 1 month on arrival,then you can extend "how long would you like sir" no financials asked for,so you get a year go back get another and go back get another after 3 years you leave 24 hours enough and it starts all over again.

Secondly Thailand is no longer cheap for many things,electric maybe slightly less than Aussie,water very cheap,no rates,but i recently built a house and it cost me around 120,000 to transfer chanotes on land of house under construction and another i own opposite. Beer 65b for a large Singa thats nearly 3 dollars Aussie,dont know how much a long neck costs back there now but not to bad,of course i live up country so much cheaper than Bangkok,Phuket ect,but it is not as cheap as it was. The hassle of doing simple things as often you have to have a Thai with you as the English skills are so poor and i can speak a fair bit of Thai but not fluently,too be honest there are days i wonder what the hell i am doing here.

I am in the Philippines and I agree with the comment regarding visa policies and the booze is the cheapest in Asia the food is not as good but after you have been here a while you can establish a decent diet. 

If you choose a place like Dumaguete which is full of expats, there are all the Farang restaurants you can wish for. 

[LawrenceN]

8 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

How can anyone take any notice when such a minority take part ?

That's how surveys work. It's assumed to be a representative sample, if there are no built-in sampling biases. Usually, a "sampling error" is reported along with the survey results. The bigger the sample, the smaller the margin of error. 

[blackhorse]

Yep, i think many people are asking the same question...... Why am i here ?  Malaysia, Free visas, house and car ownership, law and order, rights, etc,etc.......... Why am i here ? 

You know how much is needed for a retirement Visa in that Muslim country?

[wvavin]

As long as you have money, everywhere is "Thailand". 

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, kc4asia said:

Interesting article.  I have been in Thailand as a retiree for 14 years.  I have always loved it here and will never return to live permanently in the USA unless I am forced to.  I am sympathetic with the Thai government's efforts to cope with the increasing flow of immigrants, both tourists and expats.  I have noticed a marked decline in the quality of immigrants to this country and see that many bring crime and filth.  All in all, I hope Thailand can encourage a better quality of visitor.   It will help us all, expats and Thais. 

I am afraid that I must disagree with you.  I have memories of foreigners sleeping in the streets all over Bangkok.   Back packers then are now flash packers.  Flash packers have money.  KSR has two Starbucks and US fast food .  Unthinkable in the years leading up to your arrival and then a few years after.

 

You are sympathetic to a government that has accomplished nothing in four years since seizing power by force.  Odd and worrisome for an American to say.   

 

How would they accomplish bringing in more genteel crowd ?   Make digital nomads, 4.0 believers, feel welcomed perhaps.  Make people who wish to do business in Thailand feel welcomed.   You attract the people you want by welcoming them.  People who work bring good fortune, and those are precisely the people who are shunning Thailand, because setting up and doing business here is hard and job opportunities are lacking.  Also, you do not chose your customers, they choose you.  

 

No other neighboring countries have these problems with the same sort of people.  Just junta controlled Thailand seems to have trouble coping as usual.

 

[Caine]

5 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Agree with Patongo, visa is a hassle,and this stupid 90 day reporting, my immigration office and the one i used before that brought in a 'service' whereby you pay a fee [no receipt} and they put your name in a big book and your 90 day slip turns up in the post,now i guess that will be gone due to Big joke. Every year the rules seem to change just to cause the applicant more hassle,compare this to the Philippines 1 month on arrival,then you can extend "how long would you like sir" no financials asked for,so you get a year go back get another and go back get another after 3 years you leave 24 hours enough and it starts all over again.

Secondly Thailand is no longer cheap for many things,electric maybe slightly less than Aussie,water very cheap,no rates,but i recently built a house and it cost me around 120,000 to transfer chanotes on land of house under construction and another i own opposite. Beer 65b for a large Singa thats nearly 3 dollars Aussie,dont know how much a long neck costs back there now but not to bad,of course i live up country so much cheaper than Bangkok,Phuket ect,but it is not as cheap as it was. The hassle of doing simple things as often you have to have a Thai with you as the English skills are so poor and i can speak a fair bit of Thai but not fluently,too be honest there are days i wonder what the hell i am doing here.

Well go home, simple

[chivo]

9 hours ago, PatOngo said:

No mention of visa requirements which is making Thailand less expat friendly? 

You’re right- Visa requirements certainly are sore spot for many. But I imagine more so for retirees, and long-stay wanderers.

Based upon much the criteria mentioned, this survey seems aimed at working expats (“career progression, wage growth”) and usually most international companies or well-structured organizations sort out the visa and work permit for you. I was fortunate in this way. So I’m guessing that is why the article doesn’t mention the valid issue you mention.  

[mettech]

Thailand is ok as long we do not try to change their way of living to ours this is not our country and we are their guess so we have to get use to what they are. 

Money wise it has been getting a bit hard on depreciation but it is not to a point that we are at par the Cdn dollars still looking descent.

[hotchilli]

Thailand is very quickly becoming the last place for expats or indeed anyone between the ages of 30 to 50 who is married and thinking of settling down to be married & work... Thailand has numerous documented forbidden work titles which expand into just about anything... who the hell can live & earn an income in Thailand without being a teacher is beyond comprehension.. it's protectionist policies are beyond belief.

ASEAN will soon put an end to Thailand which seeks freedom wherever it's possible but gives nothing back in return !!

[davidst01]

7 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Agree with Patongo, visa is a hassle,and this stupid 90 day reporting, my immigration office and the one i used before that brought in a 'service' whereby you pay a fee [no receipt} and they put your name in a big book and your 90 day slip turns up in the post,now i guess that will be gone due to Big joke. Every year the rules seem to change just to cause the applicant more hassle,compare this to the Philippines 1 month on arrival,then you can extend "how long would you like sir" no financials asked for,so you get a year go back get another and go back get another after 3 years you leave 24 hours enough and it starts all over again.

Secondly Thailand is no longer cheap for many things,electric maybe slightly less than Aussie,water very cheap,no rates,but i recently built a house and it cost me around 120,000 to transfer chanotes on land of house under construction and another i own opposite. Beer 65b for a large Singa thats nearly 3 dollars Aussie,dont know how much a long neck costs back there now but not to bad,of course i live up country so much cheaper than Bangkok,Phuket ect,but it is not as cheap as it was. The hassle of doing simple things as often you have to have a Thai with you as the English skills are so poor and i can speak a fair bit of Thai but not fluently,too be honest there are days i wonder what the hell i am doing here.

electric is extremely expensive in oz. Its so cheap here in LOS. Your use of the word 'slightly' is incorrect

[GinBoy2]

I’m always curious why Singapore ranks so highly in these surveys

 

It’s like Disneyland granted, great infrastructure, rule of law, but damn it’s expensive.

 

Me and Mrs G lived there for several years, but along with Hong Kong they were the most expensive place we have ever lived

[lkv]

8 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I’m always curious why Singapore ranks so highly in these surveys

 

It’s like Disneyland granted, great infrastructure, rule of law, but damn it’s expensive.

 

Me and Mrs G lived there for several years, but along with Hong Kong they were the most expensive place we have ever lived

Because the expats in Singapore are generally very very well paid. Same goes for Hong Kong.

 

According to an HSBC Expat Explorer survey, almost half of Singapore's expats earn over S$250,000 ($200,000 USD) per year.

Edited October 13, 2018 by lkv

[blackhorse]

electric is extremely expensive in oz. Its so cheap here in LOS. Your use of the word 'slightly' is incorrect

Not cheap if you are using air con

And living a normal well deserved life in a big condo. [emoji148] Shoe box studio doesn't count

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

Because the expats in Singapore are generally very very well paid. Same goes for Hong Kong.

Thats true, both me and Mrs G were both very well compensated expats, but it’s still a really expensive place to live, if you’re in private rental housing

 

Thing to remember is that the majority of Singaporeans live in HDB housing which is all part of the social contract that has kept PAP in power for all these years.

 

HK, that more crazy expensive. We both had good jobs yet it was ridiculous if you want to live in a decent apartment in Central

[lkv]

7 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thats true, both me and Mrs G were both very well compensated expats, but it’s still a really expensive place to live, if you’re in private rental housing

 

Thing to remember is that the majority of Singaporeans live in HDB housing which is all part of the social contract that has kept PAP in power for all these years.

 

HK, that more crazy expensive. We both had good jobs yet it was ridiculous if you want to live in a decent apartment in Central

Well, then relative to the expat package, it's not that expensive. It still ensures a good standard of living and plenty of opportunity to save. Then you take the savings into neighbouring poorer countries and you feel rich.

 

So it does give people an opportunity to aquire wealth and progress in their careers. Not the same can be said about Thailand, from both perspectives. ????

 

Remember it's an HSBC Expat Survey.

Edited October 13, 2018 by lkv

[blackhorse]

Well, then relative to the expat package, it's not that expensive. It still ensures a good standard of living and plenty of opportunity to save. Then you take the savings into neighboring poorer countries and you feel rich.
 
So it does give people an opportunity to aquire wealth and progress in their careers. Not the same can be said about Thailand, from both perspectives. [emoji846]
 
 

You sure? A teacher earning 30k and living in a 4k fan room may actually be better off

[lkv]

3 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

You sure? A teacher earning 30k and living in a 4k fan room may actually be better off

Well if you consider a 4k room in Thailand with shared bathroom a better standard of living than a 1 or 2 bedroom condo in Singapore, I don't know what to comment.

 

The other thing is, the English teacher will stay an English teacher in Thailand. No career progress opportunities.

Edited October 13, 2018 by lkv