Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Well until today, US citizens were saying that their embassy have no plans to change.

This is only the second embassy to state they are not continuing income affidavits.  Bearing in mind that the validity of an income letter is 6 months, that takes us to end June 2019.  Plenty of time for 'things to happen'!

I agree there but European governments (I won't include the UK here from experience) normally have a more protective attitude to their citizens and are proactive so if something is in the bush I would have expected an earlier reaction (May perhaps)

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

They have no motivation to make it easier for aliens.

I can bring money into Thailand from my Galaxy.

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Either prepare to meet the 800k requirement or prepare the best documentation you can of 65k a month income. The former is sure to work the latter not 100% sure since there is no TI guidance yet on what will suffice in absence of embassy letter. Alternatively if the timing of your extension is such that it works, get Embassy letter before 1 January.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately my extension is not due until the 23rd of August.

[Spidey]

35 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Where does that mention 'income' affidavits.  It states that they can notarise an affidavit but income affidavits are dealt with earlier.  i.e. they will stop come January.

If you hadn't chopped out the relevant parts of the quote you would have seen it. Check the heading and the last line, both of which you conveniently omitted. Nice try but no cigar.

 

Services we CAN provide:

Affidavits
Oftentimes the Thai government requests the U.S. Embassy or Consulate General Chiang Mai “certify” documents listed under “services we cannot provide.” Please note the Embassy and Consulate CAN notarize an affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for “certification.”

An affidavit is a sworn statement of facts, made voluntarily, and confirmed by the oath or affirmation of the person making it.  Please note that the Embassy and Consulate assume no responsibility for the truth or falsity of the representations that appear in the affidavit. Only the identity of the individual making the statement is validated.

Please see our commonly requested affidavits below and confirm in advance if the end recipient will accept an affidavit.

• Blank Affidavit (Attestation of Thai residence to open a bank account or other requested information)
• Income Affidavit (Attestation of monthly income, often required by Thai immigration)

 

 

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I can bring money into Thailand from my Galaxy.

 

They don't want cyborg money

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

They don't want cyborg money

Cyborg money is as good as anybody's money. I believe that they'll even be accepting those Bitcoin thingys soon.

[HHTel]

34 minutes ago, Spidey said:

If you hadn't chopped out the relevant parts of the quote you would have seen it. Check the heading and the last line, both of which you conveniently omitted. Nice try but no cigar.

 

Services we CAN provide:

Affidavits
Oftentimes the Thai government requests the U.S. Embassy or Consulate General Chiang Mai “certify” documents listed under “services we cannot provide.” Please note the Embassy and Consulate CAN notarize an affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for “certification.”

An affidavit is a sworn statement of facts, made voluntarily, and confirmed by the oath or affirmation of the person making it.  Please note that the Embassy and Consulate assume no responsibility for the truth or falsity of the representations that appear in the affidavit. Only the identity of the individual making the statement is validated.

Please see our commonly requested affidavits below and confirm in advance if the end recipient will accept an affidavit.

• Blank Affidavit (Attestation of Thai residence to open a bank account or other requested information)
• Income Affidavit (Attestation of monthly income, often required by Thai immigration)

 

 

It is quite obvious, by the wording, that the link to 'income' affidavit has clearly not as yet been updated.  It quotes current requirements which we know is about to change.

[roo860]

Cyborg money is as good as anybody's money. I believe that they'll even be accepting those Bitcoin thingys soon.

Thanks Dr Who.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[soalbundy]

So with the Brits and Americans both being disadvantaged the TI may be moved to compromise (they needn't of course but I rather think they will) a sort of 'embassy letter or documents required' this choice for everybody of course. They could stipulate the 400/800k rule but then I think they would allow agents to supply their services, remember, they want it simple. As yet however there has been no reaction from TI, my IO is not even aware of the BE's decision.

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

 my IO is not even aware of the BE's decision.

 

LOL!  

 

I don't think that IOs in Surin or Buriram have much awareness of anything that happens in the wider world.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

If you hadn't chopped out the relevant parts of the quote you would have seen it. Check the heading and the last line, both of which you conveniently omitted. Nice try but no cigar.

 

Services we CAN provide:

Affidavits
Oftentimes the Thai government requests the U.S. Embassy or Consulate General Chiang Mai “certify” documents listed under “services we cannot provide.” Please note the Embassy and Consulate CAN notarize an affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for “certification.”

An affidavit is a sworn statement of facts, made voluntarily, and confirmed by the oath or affirmation of the person making it.  Please note that the Embassy and Consulate assume no responsibility for the truth or falsity of the representations that appear in the affidavit. Only the identity of the individual making the statement is validated.

Please see our commonly requested affidavits below and confirm in advance if the end recipient will accept an affidavit.

• Blank Affidavit (Attestation of Thai residence to open a bank account or other requested information)
• Income Affidavit (Attestation of monthly income, often required by Thai immigration)

 

 

 

 

This seems fairly unequivocal:-

 

Effective January 1, 2019, the United States Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai will no longer provide an income affidavit and will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit.

[Internatltraveler]

Well It is Official.

 

I received an email from Citizen Services, USA Embassy this morning informing us that as of January 1, 2019, they will NO LONGER BE ISSUING CONFIRMATION LETTERS FOR INCOME used for verification of income in applying for VISAs in Thailand. I have written back to them with the following information: I have lived outside of the USA for over 20 years and all countries which I have lived have some sort of income requirement that must be verified in order to obtain a visa to stay there. The USA embassy in all of those countries has been able to verify my social security and veteran's incomes since they are directly connected through the internet to these agencies.

 

Therefore, I do not understand why it is so difficult for the embassy in BKK to be able to do the same thing. The Social Security Services has been transferred out of Thailand and now is in the Philippines, but nonetheless, it is a government agency, and so is the V.A. that can be accessed electronically by any government agency seeking information about a citizen of the USA. So why they are refusing to take this simple step and simply require us to provide our social security number and release that information access, well I don;'t understand. But I do think that we Americans need to be writing the Embassy in mass numbers and complaining about them not doing the right thing with us. Many of us are here on a monthly income basis and do not want to make a direct deposit to a foreign bank with our monthly benefits since it tends to get screwed up and the times it takes to receive the funds is extended, plus quite honestly I do not trust the Thai Banking system enough to allow my only income to come into one of their unreliable banks here locally.

 

But I thought all of you Yanks out there that are on monthly income retirement visas or extensions should get on the stick and if your renewal period is within the first six months of 2019, those letters are good for up to six months, so get to the embassy and get your letters while you can and let's see if we can push our embassy to do the right thing or take this to our representatives in the USA to put pressure on the consular services to take care of this issue as they can. Otherwise, I can just imagine the number of us that are going to not qualify otherwise.

 

I have read the Immigration Police guidelines and it states that we can provide bank statements to verify monthly income. It does not however say that it has to be a Thai Bank account. But knowing immigration interprets these guidelines as they see fit sometimes, it is a risky proposition to think that local immigration offices will accept copies of our bank statements and even a bank letter certifying the account somehow will meet the requirement. I am set up to do everything through PayPal and credit cards so having to rearrange my entire life to fit the Thai standard, well that is something I may have to consider before my next renewal period comes up in 2020. Good luck to all of you on a monthly income because I think you are going to find that the time has past for Immigration to accept those letters after the first of the year. I've attached the Immigration Police guidelines for document requirements as of the latest document available as translated by Siam Services, for all of your information.

Immigration Bureau order 327-2557 (2014) - extension criteria & conditions en.pdf

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, Spidey said:

Correct, but my policy is to always err on the side of safety, particularly when dealing with Thai authorities. It would be an absolute disaster for me to have to leave Thailand. I would never give Thai Immigration even the slightest excuse to refuse my visa extension. Which is why I have already moved money around in my UK accounts in preparation for seeding my Thai bank account next year. Not happy about it but needs must.

That of course is your choice and decision based on the funds you have at your disposal, but for those who will not/cannot transfer funds, the other pathway makes sense for now surely?

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

That of course is your choice and decision based on the funds you have at your disposal, but for those who will not/cannot transfer funds, the other pathway makes sense for now surely?

Some, possibly many people will have no other choice if they want to remain in Thailand. Currently the going rate for this service, in Pattaya is 20k baht, although I have heard higher and lower figures quoted.

 

If those needing this service increases dramatically, I can here the agents now, "Not easy now, Immigration need big money to do this" and quote far higher fees to deliver a visa extension. I could quite easily see fees reaching 40 or 50k baht.

 

All this notwithstanding Big Joke stamping his jackboot on the whole process.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

So with the Brits and Americans both being disadvantaged the TI may be moved to compromise (they needn't of course but I rather think they will) a sort of 'embassy letter or documents required' this choice for everybody of course. They could stipulate the 400/800k rule but then I think they would allow agents to supply their services, remember, they want it simple. As yet however there has been no reaction from TI, my IO is not even aware of the BE's decision.

I wouldn't be betting a single baht on some 'compromise' solution that continues the involvement of embassy letters. Simplification points towards visa extensions being awarded on the basis of funds coming into Thailand. Currently this is lump sum. Whether this will be extended in some form in the future is just speculation for now.

[SheungWan]

Just now, Spidey said:

Some, possibly many people will have no other choice if they want to remain in Thailand. Currently the going rate for this service, in Pattaya is 20k baht, although I have heard higher and lower figures quoted.

If those needing this service increases dramatically, I can here the agents now, "Not easy now, Immigration need big money to do this" and quote far higher fees to deliver a visa extension. I could quite easily see fees reaching 40 or 50k baht.

All this notwithstanding Big Joke stamping his jackboot on the whole process.

The going rate in Pattaya is 14-20k. You can see even more with a pair of 3D glasses and after a few beers.

[Spidey]

20 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The going rate in Pattaya is 14-20k. You can see even more with a pair of 3D glasses and after a few beers.

The lowest figure I've heard is 13k, the highest I've heard is 30k. I paid 45k but that included my initial Non O visa and a 12 month retirement extension, the whole process being fast-tracked down to 2 weeks.

[Pattaya46]

15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The lowest figure I've heard is 13k, the highest I've heard is 30k. I paid 45k but that included my initial Non O visa and a 12 month retirement extension, the whole process being fast-tracked down to 2 weeks.

The initial non-O is 1'000 B

The retirement extension is 1'900 B

2-weeks is the normal delay since files have to be sent to Bangkok.

45k 

[Kwasaki]

42 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The going rate in Pattaya is 14-20k. You can see even more with a pair of 3D glasses and after a few beers.

I would think thats being done away with, my first inquiry was 16000 now they want 32.000.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I would think thats being done away with, my first inquiry was 16000 now they want 32.000.

I've had 23,000 quoted

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

The initial non-O is 1'000 B

The retirement extension is 1'900 B

2-weeks is the normal delay since files have to be sent to Bangkok.

45k 

And the seeding of a notional bank account?

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

And the seeding of a notional bank account?

actually if the 400/800k method takes hold the number of agents will increase and the cost should go down somewhat

[Spidey]

Just now, soalbundy said:

actually if the 400/800k method takes hold the number of agents will increase and the cost should go down somewhat

Not how it works. These agents have spent years cultivating relationships with IO officers, you couldn't set up in business doing this overnight.

 

The law of supply and demand. More customers having a greater need = more money.

[SheungWan]

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Ie  would think thats being done away with, my first inquiry was 16000 now they want 32.000.

 

10 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I've had 23,000 quoted

I guess there will be some comparing of quotes going round in the near future.

[Spidey]

Just now, SheungWan said:

 

I guess there will be some comparing of quotes going round in the near future.

But how many TVF posters actually tell the truth when asked this kind of question?

 

Some w***er will no doubt tell us that he got it for 1k baht.

[balo]

The question remains if Big Joke will do a crack down on visa agents as well not allowing them to borrow westerners 800k needed for a few days to get the visa. 

 

 

[SheungWan]

19 minutes ago, balo said:

The question remains if Big Joke will do a crack down on visa agents as well not allowing them to borrow westerners 800k needed for a few days to get the visa.

And what if this and what if that.......

[SheungWan]

31 minutes ago, Spidey said:

But how many TVF posters actually tell the truth when asked this kind of question?

Some w***er will no doubt tell us that he got it for 1k baht.

It might be me just to get you going......

[SheungWan]

45 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Not how it works. These agents have spent years cultivating relationships with IO officers, you couldn't set up in business doing this overnight.

The law of supply and demand. More customers having a greater need = more money.

I was under the firm impression that the Thai way was to put up prices when business was down in order to make up for the shortfall.

[Kwasaki]

43 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I  guess there will be some comparing of quotes going round in the near future.

Yeah not going that way after speaking to one on the phone, big joke is after big joke.