Not so good service - what would you do?

[OneMoreFarang]

Hopefully that will end the discussion about why any chain needs lubrication:

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Farangwithaplan said:

Come on... Back up your statements with some reference. I have now it is your turn.

You are claiming that metal on metal friction needs no lubrication (Chain to sprocket). That is junior high school general science stuff and you can't grasp it.

Scottoilers are a fantastic kit for people touring loaded with gear and actually understand maintenance and require longevity in their chain and sprockets.

What do you say about the RK Chain link I referred to? Why are you ignoring that now? You really are clueless on these matters. But I'm happy for you to prove me and RK Chains wrong..

Your back up was an ad for Motul chain lube which is OK if applied correctly, when seeing dealers workshop here using it I've never seen them do it correctly, I don't like it myself it is very sticky and debris's stick to it and build up, which is not good IMO.

I think everyone has their way of maintaining drive chains no matter what make.

As I understand 'canthai55' when you lube a chain you lube in from inside, the sides and outer side is kept clean.

Scottoilers again IMHO are bloody awful messy things for sprockets and if not working correctly get onto wheels and tyres, the same applies to them picking up debris too.

As for people touring a lot loaded with gear buy a shaft-driven motorcycle. ????

When serviced bikes in UK I cleaned chained with WD40 and lubed with a minimum coat of oil on the inside.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Kwasaki

[Farangwithaplan]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

My reference - my over 50 years of riding.

Posting a link from a chain manufacturer - like posting a link saying how good Ford transmissions are - from Ford !

You want to cover metal parts with oil, and then ride down the road - or trails - and have all the dust, sand, and grit stick to that oil, fill your boots.

I have learned the futility of that - hence no oil on my chains.

But stick with your plan - 555

Okay, mr 50 years riding, tell me any other application where moving metal to metal parts in a similar force and frequency and heat situation to a motorcycle chain do not need lubricant?

 

I assume you use gear box oil or do you think because some of the bearings in engine bottom ends are sealed there is no need for lube... Seriously... You've had 50 years of being.... welll I'll let you finish that.

 

You have given me the biggest chuckle I have had in a very long time.

[Farangwithaplan]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Your back up was an ad for Motul chain lube which is OK if applied correctly, when seeing dealers workshop here using it I've never seen them do it correctly, I don't like it myself it is very sticky and debris's stick to it and build up, which is not good IMO.

I think everyone has their way of maintaining drive chains no matter what make.

As I understand 'canthai55' when you lube a chain you lube in from inside, the sides and outer side is kept clean.

Scottoilers again IMHO are bloody awful messy things for sprockets and if not working correctly get onto wheels and tyres, the same applies to them picking up debris too.

As for people touring a lot loaded with gear buy a shaft-driven motorcycle. ????

When serviced bikes in UK I cleaned chained with WD40 and lubed with a minimum coat of oil on the inside.

It was an RK web site. A hell of a lot better than the other guy sprouting crap then ignoring andy reference to it. Typical strawman technique. Doing something for 50 years doesn't mean you know anything if you start off wrong. It just means you have 50 years of making the same mistakes.

 

Buy an RK chain and don't lube it for 10000km because it's an o ring and see how it goes with warranty.. The stretch alone in the chain due to the excess friction generated heat would screw the chain and sprockets on any bike with half decent power.

 

As I said earlier, I use wax, not oil... No fling and very little tackiness after it initially sets.

 

 

Chains should be lubed on the rollers where they meet the sprockets. It is best to lube from top and bottom of the chain. The sides as you also said there is no need to lube the sides of a chain There is no friction there. The o or x ring keeps the factory sealing so the lube stays inside to lube the pin and roller bush.

 

Scottoilers have a place, as do shafties. Each to their own. Using a luvbe with anti fling properties instead of a standard motor oil in the Scottoillers makes a world of difference. They personally aren't for me, cos I can lube my chain with the bike fully loaded by just balancing on the bike by the side stand to get the rear wheel off the ground.

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

To the OP: The reality is possible that there is nobody supervising the mechanics who are doing the jobs or checking their work when signing them off. Or worse, there is, but the supervisor either hasn't a clue or is not interested. What to do? Go elsewhere now that your confidence in the slap and tickle workshop is gone. Longer term? Maybe buy the most common brand of bike next time, so that you have maximum choice in workshops. The small brand workshops think they have a captive brand and don't care too much?

[Kwasaki]

52 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

As I said earlier, I use wax, not oil... No fling and very little tackiness after it initially sets.

Well people do different things and if I'm asked I just say what I do with chains whatever sort as previously said.

Must say never knew of wax is it special high melting point type what's the name out of interest.

I have always used SAE140 in UK & here never had a problem, so never looked further unless it's put in front of me to try.

[canthai55]

For those clueless souls - following from a guy with over one million KM riding in SE Asia alone.

Brad's verdict on my Scottoiler set up....This chain oiler and your suspension are not working well together.... Its becoming a "medium" or "Conduit" for Sand and foreign matter to invade your moving parts and prematurely fail them.

https://www.gt-rider.com/se-asia-motorcycling/threads/a-suspension-rebuild-tune-up-for-my-vstrom.14659/

[taninthai]

^

maybe that guys like me and don’t clean his bike to often...????

will be honest don’t think that link has any bearing on your little squabble with the other poster.

Think you will be on your own on this one I don’t think there is to many people that never oil there chain.

[canthai55]

On my own - fine. I know what works. And what does not.

As do the posters here that have ridden bikes their whole lives, not a Fino for 3 weeks

 

 

[eisfeld]

I use dry wax for my chains. Even if it wouldn't be needed, an unlubricated chain sounds like crap imho. Lubrication reduces the chain noise noticably.

[Farangwithaplan]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:52 PM, canthai55 said:

For those clueless souls - following from a guy with over one million KM riding in SE Asia alone.

Brad's verdict on my Scottoiler set up....This chain oiler and your suspension are not working well together.... Its becoming a "medium" or "Conduit" for Sand and foreign matter to invade your moving parts and prematurely fail them.

https://www.gt-rider.com/se-asia-motorcycling/threads/a-suspension-rebuild-tune-up-for-my-vstrom.14659/

More strawman techniques from you.

 

Address the issue. You won't because you can't. You are wrong.

 

So now you are avoiding the issue of lubrication of metal on metal surfaces altogether and have decided that Scottoillers are bad in all applications because one person who is using their vehicle in a fashion that the majority of users do has found it an issue. Seriously, you really need a reality check. And you need to stop cherry picking to make points for your ridiculous claims.

 

I haven't bothered to read that link. But if that rider is having issues with foreign materials, he is using the wrong lubrication and the Scottoiller is no suitable for that environment. That does not mean that a Scottoiller is not suitable ever.

 

 

In 50 years I would have thought is enough time to learn about unbiased thinking. But clearly not.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Farangwithaplan

[Farangwithaplan]

On 10/17/2018 at 1:33 PM, Kwasaki said:

Well people do different things and if I'm asked I just say what I do with chains whatever sort as previously said.

Must say never knew of wax is it special high melting point type what's the name out of interest.

I have always used SAE140 in UK & here never had a problem, so never looked further unless it's put in front of me to try.

There are a variety of chain waxes out there. I use Maxima these and get great mileage out of chain an sprockets on large capacity bikes like a ZX-12r and others like a GSX-R 750. There are plenty of other brands out there. The waxes don't fling and are not tacky after it is set. But if you are happy with the oil you use, it is all good

[papa al]

On my dirt bikes with non-sealed cheap chain

this past season began using the following lube:

Remove & clean then melted wax with a good dollop of

Ester-base 2T oil added.

Nothing sticks to metal

like the highly polar ester molecules.

 

To 

Insure

Proper

Service

papa usually tips B50 on a minor item like oil chang

w/ chain adjust.

B100 on mount 2 tires.

B2700 top rebuilt, B400 tip.

[Dropped ceeber off at 10, picked up about 2 PM]

Last year at happy new year tipped

entire staff B100 each.

Small money for farang but Definitely motivates the locals

to take good care papa.

Karmic advantages too.

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by papa al

[papa al]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:52 PM, canthai55 said:

For those clueless souls - following from a guy with over one million KM riding in SE Asia alone.

Brad's verdict on my Scottoiler set up....This chain oiler and your suspension are not working well together.... Its becoming a "medium" or "Conduit" for Sand and foreign matter to invade your moving parts and prematurely fail them.

https://www.gt-rider.com/se-asia-motorcycling/threads/a-suspension-rebuild-tune-up-for-my-vstrom.14659/

papa built 'automatic' oiler for ceeber

from a plastic brake-fluid resivour,  /sp/

chain-saw primer-bulb

some tubing and plastic fittings.

Maybe $5 parts.

Like to duché her before & after riding in wet,

rainy conditions and car wash.

Only 35Kkm tho.

[CharlieH]

Posts removed.

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[Kwasaki]

I must remember when I treat my CRF to an 'X' ring chain not to use WD40 when cleaning it.

 

Sealed 'O' and 'X' ring chains -  Even though these chains are sometimes thought of as being maintenance free - it is important to ensure that the outside of these chains are kept well greased. Both the rubber seals and the exposed metals need to be kept lubricated and this job should be carried out every 250 - 300 miles or so, depending on conditions. If this type of chain is left on a bike which is not going to be used for several months, it is a very good idea to attend to lubricating the chain first. 

Ordinary roller chains (not sealed) - When used as a final drive chain which is exposed, this type of chain needs more care and attention.in terms of cleaning and lubrication. 

 

Chains can be lubricated with SAE 80-90 oil or with a specific chain lubricant. Ensure that any chain lubricant to be used on an O, X or Z ring chain is suitable for the purpose by checking that the product states that it is "O ring friendly".  There are several automatic chain oilers available and these generally work well but be sure that it is fitted correctly and in our opinion, especially with O ring chains it is better to use an oiler which has a  "dual feed" - where both sides of the chain are oiled. 

Never use WD40 or similar product to clean or lubricate a chain - it is NOT A LUBRICANT and it contains a solvent. It will also damage the rubber seals on an 'O' ring type chain. 'WD' stands for water displacement.