USA income affidavit

[ToS2014]

I just wonder if the USA did this to all its immigrants?  I'm military retired, VA disabled and on SS disability.  I can PROVE it all.  Show me one immigrant that can..... I digest, off subject I know; but to to all those that have lived on BS income verifications to extend their stay this is/could be a problem.  For those that can and have proof of monthly stability/income you have no worries.  For those that departed their home state to thwart the rules, and then complain about Thai law is....well fill in the blank.

[namatjira]

You people really don’t understand what’s going on, after much discussion they have decided they needed to fix up the long queues at some immigration offices.....too many people were complaining , something needed to be done .

this is the final solution.....the reasoning being if they queue from early morning to do even 90 day reports then they just might be telling little lies on their affidavits.......

good guys in broke guys out....all a matter of basic honesty.

some will have to forego their 3 thousand baht condos and head back home to the comforts of their trailer parks.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, ToS2014 said:

I just wonder if the USA did this to all its immigrants?  I'm military retired, VA disabled and on SS disability.  I can PROVE it all.  Show me one immigrant that can..... I digest, off subject I know; but to to all those that have lived on BS income verifications to extend their stay this is/could be a problem.  For those that can and have proof of monthly stability/income you have no worries.  For those that departed their home state to thwart the rules, and then complain about Thai law is....well fill in the blank.

Nobody is talking about proof. The talk now is of a potential onerous requirement to IMPORT  the claimed income MONTHLY into Thailand, whether that works for you or not. 

[Russell17au]

19 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

Then you have FX rates change. I was getting over 40K a month for my marriage extension. AUD drops like it has, I am know getting 38K a month and no way to do a combo method. My pensions is for life, it will not change until I die but in the grand scheme of it all, the currency exchange rate can kill you. I have to use the 400K method now. I really do not care as it means I am safe at this current time but who knows.

 

So yes, they can have a program but NOTHING is set in stone and I think coming in the future, is the Thai Immigration now wants some more certainty. The old days are going and I feel in the future, Thailand will not be as easy to access as it once was. They want only the short term tourist; even us that are married ain't got no certainty and could be kicked out on the sidewalk to head back home without our spouse because, in all honesty, we and the Thai wife don't mean money to them like they see the Chinese or one week millionaire. 

I am on the standard Australian Aged pension and I get 43,302B per month so there is something wrong with your and your friends mathematics and I believe that you and your friends are making the usual mistake by saying that you get paid monthly which is incorrect, you get paid every 4 weeks and that is 13 payments per year. My pension payment is AUD$1716 (39,978B) every 4 weeks multiply that by 13 payments AUD$22,308 (519,542B) then divide that by 12 and you get your monthly payments of AUD$1,859 (43,302B) per month and those figures are as of 24/10/2018 exchange rate. Another thing is if you are being paid into an Australian bank account you are losing money in both Australian and Thai bank fees which will also lower your available cash here in Thailand. Mine is paid directly from the Reserve bank into my Thai bank account at the going exchange rate with no fees either by the Reserve bank or my Thai bank.

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, Moon37 said:

Having worked in two US Embassy's for 8 years (not in the Consular Section) the Consular Section and American Citizen Services is the biggest income the State Department gets in return for being there.  At $50 a shot, that will significantly reduce this peripheral income and the US DoS will do it's best to keep it going.   

If Thai Immi were really switched on, they would get over this unrealistic thing they decided to focus on, do away with the foreign embassy letters and simply do it themselves for a 500 Baht fee.  Turn up at Immigration, have your documents ready if asked, fill out the Affidavit and swear to its veracity on a plate of Somtam.

 

It would be just as accurate as the foreign embassy process, and would be a nice little earner for not a lot of effort.  Bit like the Dr.'s note you need for a Thai driving license.   Or a Letter of Residence from Immigration for 500 Baht when, in reality, they haven't ACTUALLY verified that either.

 

Not that they care but, on the flip side, would save us the trip to BKK, petrol and hotel/food costs, getting into and out of the Embassy, all for a 15 minute appointment to get a $50.00 piece of paper.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Nobody is talking about proof. The talk now is of a potential onerous requirement to IMPORT  the claimed income MONTHLY into Thailand, whether that works for you or not.

I hear you- but getting money into a Thai bank by transfer is not the only way to get money into a Thai Bank.  I can use my debit cards to take out 65K each month from my US Bank (which I already do) and then each month put the 65K into a Thai Bank and take it out as I need it. The source is foreign- easily proved as Thai ATM slips show source...

 

Then what about  people retired in Thailand and have used their  monies to purchase a string of condominiums and rent them out- pay Thai taxes and put in a Thai bank 65K or more or own a 7-11 franchise etc etc.

 

The current Police order states evidence of monthly income- it says nothing about source.

 

There is going to be many reports from different Imm offices on what they will accept and what they will not.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I hear you- but getting money into a Thai bank by transfer is not the only way to get money into a Thai Bank.  I can use my debit cards to take out 65K each month from my US Bank (which I already do) and then each month put the 65K into a Thai Bank and take it out as I need it. The source is foreign- easily proved as Thai ATM slips show source...

 

Then what about  people retired in Thailand and have used their  monies to purchase a string of condominiums and rent them out- pay Thai taxes and put in a Thai bank 65K or more or own a 7-11 franchise etc etc.

 

The current Police order states evidence of monthly income- it says nothing about source.

 

There is going to be many reports from different Imm offices on what they will accept and what they will not.

 

 

 

I really think you're tripping if you actually believe (assuming embassy letters go away) that Thai immigration is going to accept your ATM slips (which as you probably know the print FADES AWAY in months). It's going to be about INCOMING TRANSFERS in your bank book. You're posting about your WISHES, not probable reality. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[ArickChaiyaphum]

As of last week from Chiayaphum Khon Kaen immigration. Certified letter from bank for deposits only  and for any monthly income even from Thailand they accept a letter from the  embassy  of the passport you are using. Udon Joe has told me and tax return certified from Thailand revenue might be possible For income + deposit of just income from Thailand I suggest you start getting your income from abroad stamped and certified from your home country/consulate 

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

f Thai Immi were really switched on, they would get over this unrealistic thing they decided to focus on, do away with the foreign embassy letters and simply do it themselves for a 500 Baht fee.  Turn up at Immigration, have your documents ready if asked, fill out the Affidavit and swear to its veracity on a plate of Somtam.

Agree  completely- they can look at the 'proof' make a copy and make you swear it is true by signing a letter indicating if false info is presented you can be deported. Actually, it is a crime to lie to the police.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

really think you're tripping if you actually believe (assuming embassy letters go away) that Thai immigration is going to accept your ATM slips (which as you probably know the print FADES AWAY in months). It's going to be about INCOMING TRANSFERS in your bank book. You're posting about your WISHES, not probable reality. 

I have no idea what the future holds but when I was asked  some years ago to prove my income- they were easily accepted as proof of foreign income. Thai imm had no trouble understanding any of my statements and from what I have read about items presented at CM Imm just this year- they were accepted there.   

 

I can only report on what my personal experiences were and those of others as posted on this forum or from people I actually know.

[usacb500biker]

C W     WHAT   CITY   ????   bangkok  pattaya  C M ??

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

I have no idea what the future holds but when I was asked  some years ago to prove my income- they were easily accepted as proof of foreign income. Thai imm had no trouble understanding any of my statements and from what I have read about items presented at CM Imm just this year- they were accepted there.   

 

I can only report on what my personal experiences were and those of others as posted on this forum or from people I actually know.

That is not the point. They were asking for BACKUP evidence on TOP of your embassy letter. That is NOT the same thing. 

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

Otherwise, foreigners are required to invest at least $2.5 million Singapore dollars (about $1.8 million at current rates) in the local economy by opening a new business or by expanding an existing business.?

Singapore is for billionaires.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That is not the point. They were asking for BACKUP evidence on TOP of your embassy letter. That is NOT the same thing. 

The Embassy l;letter proved nothing  other than a person took an Oath the info was true and thus incurred a criminal penalty if a lie was told.   Now- the backup proof which was much more accurate then the letter may become the primary proof and it may not.

 

Let's not quibble about apples and oranges- neither of us know exactly what they will accept going forward. Let's hope for the best as there are many ways to prove income.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Thaidream said:

The Embassy l;letter proved nothing  other than a person took an Oath the info was true and thus incurred a criminal penalty if a lie was told.   Now- the backup proof which was much more accurate then the letter may become the primary proof and it may not.

 

Let's not quibble about apples and oranges- neither of us know exactly what they will accept going forward. Let's hope for the best as there are many ways to prove income.

I think you don't get the bureaucratic mentality, in Thailand and most countries. You're thinking about things LOGICALLY and unreasonably expect these offices to follow that logic along with you. THIS IS NOT ABOUT LOGIC! It's about getting OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS from OFFICIAL SOURCES, fully validated documents. Such as Thai bank letters for bank method applications. Such as official embassy documents. They're programmed to need stuff like that. I agree with you fully that we need a way to prove our claims without the embassy letters. But I think you're being naïve about what that's going to be. This is why I am so adamant in WARNING people, do not cheerlead for this new idea of proving full import. It's a land mine and there are so many things that could wrong with that for you and if you think it's always going to be a case of trying to show proof in other ways, it obviously just won't. They don't have an hour to spend with each applicant. 

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

In all due respect, your post proves why those that do have a relationship and understanding of what is occurring, mostly won't be involved with open Internet forums. It has been tried and simply doesn't work. It becomes pointless point scoring and conjecture due to anonymity of both parties. As you are aware, this forum is 'Open source' it's read by many people that have no need to be members. ( I am in no way stating point scoring regarding your post) and hence, it is left to official notices being posted on official government websites once a final decision has been taken. 
Hope you have a great day.

In other words you are trying to start a rumor to upset people and have no source.  You don't live in Thailand full time and have only done one 90 day report in your whole life. 

[billsmart]

What does "CW" stand for?

 

I discussed this in a series of emails with the US Embassy in Bangkok, and as of about a week ago, they said they had no plans to change their policy of notarizing their Thai Income Affidavit forms, although they did say they were reviewing their policy on this.

The bottom line on this will be drawn by Thai Immigrations. Assuming they don't change their requirements for Retirement visas, they require either a THB 800 balance in a Thai bank which has been there for a certain number of months- or proof of income of THB 65,000 a month. What they will accept as "proof of income" has not been specified as far as I know. They have been accepting various types of certified documents from foreign embassies, but now it seems like they will not. I assume what they would accept is a copy of your bank book, or a statement from your bank, showing you transfer THB 65,000 a month into your account.

Questions that could be asked would be:
- Does it have to be at least THB 65K a month, or could that amount be an average of a year's (or some months') worth of transfers?                                                                                                                - Does this income have to be "retirement" income, or can it just be any kind of income - like just withdrawals from a personal foreign account or even current income?
- Are transfers out considered? Because if not, you could transfer THB70K in every month, and then just transfer THB 70K out to be transferred in again the next month. That would only cost you a couple of transfer fees.

????
 

[billsmart]

On 10/24/2018 at 1:20 PM, AGareth2 said:

do they accept Google maps?

My local Immigration Office in Phetchabun would not accept a Google map. I brought one, but I was aksed to had to hand-draw one.

[Russell17au]

I'm an Australian so it may be different for you but have just gone into my.gov.au and went into my pension account and printed my last 12 months payments statement. Do any of you US or UK guys have the same system available to you? If you do then there is your proof of income

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They're programmed to need stuff like that. I agree with you fully that we need a way to prove our claims without the embassy letters. But I think you're being naïve about what that's going to be. This is why I am so adamant in WARNING people, do not cheerlead for this new idea of proving full import. It's a land mine and there are so many things that could wrong with that for you and if you think it's always going to be a case of trying to show proof in other ways, it obviously just won't. They don't have an hour to spend with each applicant. 

Trust me- I fully understand the Thai penchant for paper and  Thai bureaucracy and how it works and  how they think and they will follow what the boss says.  My first Visa extension was in 1971 when I had to place a $1,000 bond in a Thai bank for a 30 day extension due to family issues.  I didn't have it and left the country to resume working abroad, so I well know how they operate. In addition- I have had almost every type of Visa they offer .

It is way too early to determine what they will or will not accept since there are few experiences we can  look at it.  What I plan on doing since I have used the Embassy Letter for years is get another- letter- get another year extension and then make a decision on how to proceed- that will give me a whole year to read what evidence/proof they will accept.  At the end of the day knowledge and experience is power.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, billsmart said:

What does "CW" stand for?

Chaeng Wattana immigration in Bangkok.

[skatewash]

CW = Chaengwattana, the location of Bangkok's Immigration Office.

[Thaidream]

10 minutes ago, billsmart said:

discussed this in a series of emails with the US Embassy in Bangkok, and as of about a week ago, they said they had no plans to change their policy of notarizing their Thai Income Affidavit forms, although they did say they were reviewing their policy on this.

The bottom line on this will be drawn by Thai Immigrations. Assuming they don't change their requirements for Retirement visas, they require either a THB 800 balance in a Thai bank which has been there for a certain number of months- or proof of income of THB 65,000 a month. What they will accept as "proof of income" has not been specified as far as I know. They have been accepting various types of certified documents from foreign embassies, but now it seems like they will not. I assume what they would accept is a copy of your bank book, or a statement from your bank, showing you transfer THB 65,000 a month into your account.

Questions that could be asked would be:
- Does it have to be at least THB 65K a month, or could that amount be an average of a year's (or some months') worth of transfers?                                                                                                                - Does this income have to be "retirement" income, or can it just be any kind of income - like just withdrawals from a personal foreign account or even current income?
- Are transfers out considered? Because if not, you could transfer THB70K in every month, and then just transfer THB 70K out to be transferred in again the next month. That would only cost you a couple

Yes, we would all like to know the answers on what they will or will not accept. Frankly- I would prefer the Embassy letter with backup proof as needed = 

[Jingthing]

My attitude is this. If the embassy letter thing really goes away they WILL decide on requiring FULL IMPORT to Thailand of the claimed income as the ONLY accepted proof. It's not rocket science. It's simply a variation of the BANK LETTER for the full bank account but instead PROVING import streams with a fully official THAI BANK document. I think people wanting/needing the income method should get real about this and how BAD that will be for many people that actually DO have the claimed income. 

 

This is why I think NOW is the time to get real and forget about silly ideas of showing ATM slips and foreign bank account documents. That is not their job!

 

What people really SHOULD be lobbying for is something much more REALISTIC. What is that? Well, IF they go ahead with requiring full import for income applications, what will become SUPER IMPORTANT for many is allowing MORE FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. Simple as that. Instead of MONTHLY imports made of the MONTHLY claims (which will be different amount of Thai baht each time anyway!) try to lobby Thai immigration to accept the REQUIRED IMPORTED INCOME to be sent in ANY time increments at all. 1 time a year the full amount. Chunks added up to the total. Monthly if you can/want to. 50 times if you want. Just totaling the full annual claim! This detail will become a big big problem for so many expats if they don't allow FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. 

[david555]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Yes, we would all like to know the answers on what they will or will not accept. Frankly- I would prefer the Embassy letter with backup proof as needed = 

And how for the combo method as there the needed sum on top of bank savings can be very different …., 12 months or 3 month or x? month's ?

Edited October 25, 2018 by david555

[cucme]

On 10/24/2018 at 1:20 PM, AGareth2 said:

do they accept Google maps?

They are happy with a google map print and an arrow, where exactly they can find you.

[ArickChaiyaphum]

Yes, we would all like to know the answers on what they will or will not accept. Frankly- I would prefer the Embassy letter with backup proof as needed = 

No


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[blackhorse]

My attitude is this. If the embassy letter thing really goes away they WILL decide on requiring FULL IMPORT to Thailand of the claimed income as the ONLY accepted proof. It's not rocket science. It's simply a variation of the BANK LETTER for the full bank account but instead PROVING import streams with a fully official THAI BANK document. I think people wanting/needing the income method should get real about this and how BAD that will be for many people that actually DO have the claimed income. 
 
This is why I think NOW is the time to get real and forget about silly ideas of showing ATM slips and foreign bank account documents. That is not their job!
 
What people really SHOULD be lobbying for is something much more REALISTIC. What is that? Well, IF they go ahead with requiring full import for income applications, what will become SUPER IMPORTANT for many is allowing MORE FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. Simple as that. Instead of MONTHLY imports made of the MONTHLY claims (which will be different amount of Thai baht each time anyway!) try to lobby Thai immigration to accept the REQUIRED IMPORTED INCOME to be sent in ANY time increments at all. 1 time a year the full amount. Chunks added up to the total. Monthly if you can/want to. 50 times if you want. Just totaling the full annual claim! This detail will become a big big problem for so many expats if they don't allow FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. 

Interesting post right up untill you said "try to lobby thai immigration"

[skatewash]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

My attitude is this. If the embassy letter thing really goes away they WILL decide on requiring FULL IMPORT to Thailand of the claimed income as the ONLY accepted proof. It's not rocket science. It's simply a variation of the BANK LETTER for the full bank account but instead PROVING import streams with a fully official THAI BANK document. I think people wanting/needing the income method should get real about this and how BAD that will be for many people that actually DO have the claimed income. 

 

This is why I think NOW is the time to get real and forget about silly ideas of showing ATM slips and foreign bank account documents. That is not their job!

 

What people really SHOULD be lobbying for is something much more REALISTIC. What is that? Well, IF they go ahead with requiring full import for income applications, what will become SUPER IMPORTANT for many is allowing MORE FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. Simple as that. Instead of MONTHLY imports made of the MONTHLY claims (which will be different amount of Thai baht each time anyway!) try to lobby Thai immigration to accept the REQUIRED IMPORTED INCOME to be sent in ANY time increments at all. 1 time a year the full amount. Chunks added up to the total. Monthly if you can/want to. 50 times if you want. Just totaling the full annual claim! This detail will become a big big problem for so many expats if they don't allow FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. 

This is my favorite proposal so far!  As someone using the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank for three months this would save me 20,000 baht and eliminate the seasoning requirement.  I would switch to the jingthing income method in a heartbeat. ????

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

y attitude is this. If the embassy letter thing really goes away they WILL decide on requiring FULL IMPORT to Thailand of the claimed income as the ONLY accepted proof. It's not rocket science. It's simply a variation of the BANK LETTER for the full bank account but instead PROVING import streams with a fully official THAI BANK document. I think people wanting/needing the income method should get real about this and how BAD that will be for many people that actually DO have the claimed income. 

 

This is why I think NOW is the time to get real and forget about silly ideas of showing ATM slips and foreign bank account documents. That is not their job!

 

What people really SHOULD be lobbying for is something much more REALISTIC. What is that? Well, IF they go ahead with requiring full import for income applications, what will become SUPER IMPORTANT for many is allowing MORE FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. Simple as that. Instead of MONTHLY imports made of the MONTHLY claims (which will be different amount of Thai baht each time anyway!) try to lobby Thai immigration to accept the REQUIRED IMPORTED INCOME to be sent in ANY time increments at all. 1 time a year the full amount. Chunks added up to the total. Monthly if you can/want to. 50 times if you want. Just totaling the full annual claim! This detail will become a big big problem for so many expats if they don't allow FLEXIBILITY in the timing of the imports. 

Sorry JT= disagree-  I have no intention of lobbying for one way of showing income and that is by transfer only or as you say import.  There are many ways to prove monthly income. Your method works for you and others but not all of us. I am not interested if Thai Imm has to work harder to read my documents. I will be there to guide them through the process.

 

When I was asked for proof before of income- they easily read my documents with NO help from me- it took them about 2 minutes to look at the proof and they were satisfied. If they could do it then and they were satisfied- they can do it now. As I said many ways to prove income .....