Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[thailand49]

33 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

I don't see anything backward in having a minimum income requirement to stay here long term and some proof being required for what you claim that income is.

 

As far as something being "truly verified," I think we've established that no embassy can or ever has actually verified income. Maybe in some countries if you get a single source government pension they could, but that is something the US Embassy cannot do even for Social Security let along the myriad other sources of retirement income.

 

Implying that Thais are backward for recognizing that some people have been getting some sort of income letter from their embassies that has been fraudulent. is just childish name-calling.  The embassies are admitting they can't verify income and Thai immigrations is seeking a way to see who really has the money and who does not.

You imply too much from the word backward the only reason I don't lay into you more is that I don't want the thread to turn into a pissing contest! My reference to backward is even if the Embassy did a more thorough time check into the documents submit by an applicant and put their seal on the affidavit and the Thai Embassy through the longer length of obtaining an affidavit mean that everything now is fine and dandy?

You might have great faint in the Thai government I don't share that sentiment and believe that they do is childish. 

[pookiki]

10 minutes ago, watgate said:

I am only up to page 21 so if someone has already answered my question my apologies. Say,at some point I want to say adios to Thailand and want to withdraw my 800k thai baht to take back to the US. Can you convert the 800k  thai baht back to usd or will you be hard pressed to find an exchange place willing or able to convert that much thai baht into usd? If you have to take 800k thai baht back to the US does anyone know if you will take a big hit in the conversion from thai baht back to usd? I realize one can get a thai atm card which you can use to withdraw funds from your  thai bank acct while in another country so maybe that would be the rest way to go.  Any comments or info is appreciated.

Super Rich (Green) has the best exchange rate for baht to other currencies.  There is a maximum amount that can be exchanged each day.

[david555]

2 minutes ago, pookiki said:

Super Rich (Green) has the best exchange rate for baht to other currencies.  There is a maximum amount that can be exchanged each day.

https://daytodaydata.net/

all exchangers and Thai banks

Edited October 26, 2018 by david555

[thailand49]

36 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I assume you mean the under consideration period after the extension application is accepted. The under consideration stamp allows a person to stay until the extension application is approved. The 30 days on the stamp is a report back date not the date they have to leave the country.

There would be no overstay.

Great to get the answer from you I don't see any real problems with him getting the marriage extension that will work better for him for the personal reason as not to want to use a Thai Bank more than he has to.

[dontoearth]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Why an exodus ? its not that hard to put money in a Thai account. If you have the money its just moving money around.

    It has gotten harder and harder to open a bank account here in TH.  My older friends that have been here years have accounts but I was turned down by several banks and even the Bangkok Bank which has done my friends said ,"NO!"   They asked for an embassy letter.   ROFL!  Oh my!  The Bangkok Bank had a New York City branch which made it easier to get around US laws that make it impossible to transfer more than 10K without being reported to the US govt.  I heard Bangkok Bank is closing the New York branch.  It seems the govt. would like our money but they haven't told the banks.  And the banks don't seem to want it.  Thai friends have agreed to take me to the bank and clear the way but it all seems like that will only solve the problem until they come up with the next retirement visa change.  I wonder when they will go back to the discussions demanding mandatory medical insurance proof or purchase?  Again, I have health insurance but can you imagine the hassle of getting the various forms that would be required.  

    I have more than enough income but I am tired of the hoop jumping.  Other retirement countries don't do all of this nonsense.  The various groups that rank international retirement living have moved Thailand down in the ranks again and again.  From a top 5 ranking years ago, to the last time I looked they fell below 15 and the immigration and ease of residency requirement score was 61 pts.  D- if you remember your school grading system.

     In any case, I concur with most thaivisa forum members posting here that are starting their plans to leave.  I enjoyed it. My friends are great and I will miss them, but time to head elsewhere for a fun life.  Mexico ranks number 1 right now on most of the surveys for foreign retirement living.  My retirement visa expires soon and when it does I am not renewing.  Maybe short jaunts I will miss old friends but no more living here the winter months of the year.  

      Change that immigration motto from Good Guys in Bad guys Out to "We pissed off the good guys and we will continue to fight with the bad guys!"

     

[galt67]

4 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    It has gotten harder and harder to open a bank account here in TH.  My older friends that have been here years have accounts but I was turned down by several banks and even the Bangkok Bank which has done my friends said ,"NO!"   They asked for an embassy letter.   ROFL!  Oh my!  The Bangkok Bank had a New York City branch which made it easier to get around US laws that make it impossible to transfer more than 10K without being reported to the US govt.  I heard Bangkok Bank is closing the New York branch.  It seems the govt. would like our money but they haven't told the banks.  And the banks don't seem to want it.  Thai friends have agreed to take me to the bank and clear the way but it all seems like that will only solve the problem until they come up with the next retirement visa change.  I wonder when they will go back to the discussions demanding mandatory medical insurance proof or purchase?  Again, I have health insurance but can you imagine the hassle of getting the various forms that would be required.  

    I have more than enough income but I am tired of the hoop jumping.  Other retirement countries don't do all of this nonsense.  The various groups that rank international retirement living have moved Thailand down in the ranks again and again.  From a top 5 ranking years ago, to the last time I looked they fell below 15 and the immigration and ease of residency requirement score was 61 pts.  D- if you remember your school grading system.

     In any case, I concur with most thaivisa forum members posting here that are starting their plans to leave.  I enjoyed it. My friends are great and I will miss them, but time to head elsewhere for a fun life.  Mexico ranks number 1 right now on most of the surveys for foreign retirement living.  My retirement visa expires soon and when it does I am not renewing.  Maybe short jaunts I will miss old friends but no more living here the winter months of the year.  

      Change that immigration motto from Good Guys in Bad guys Out to "We pissed off the good guys and we will continue to fight with the bad guys!"

     

4

Interesting you mentioned BKK Bank as not opening an account for you.

 

I know a well known Pattaya go-go, that on an irregular basis, has BKK Bank staff there 'opening new accounts.'

 

Just show up with your passport. That's it.

[blackhorse]

    It has gotten harder and harder to open a bank account here in TH.  My older friends that have been here years have accounts but I was turned down by several banks and even the Bangkok Bank which has done my friends said ,"NO!"   They asked for an embassy letter.   ROFL!  Oh my!  The Bangkok Bank had a New York City branch which made it easier to get around US laws that make it impossible to transfer more than 10K without being reported to the US govt.  I heard Bangkok Bank is closing the New York branch.  It seems the govt. would like our money but they haven't told the banks.  And the banks don't seem to want it.  Thai friends have agreed to take me to the bank and clear the way but it all seems like that will only solve the problem until they come up with the next retirement visa change.  I wonder when they will go back to the discussions demanding mandatory medical insurance proof or purchase?  Again, I have health insurance but can you imagine the hassle of getting the various forms that would be required.  
    I have more than enough income but I am tired of the hoop jumping.  Other retirement countries don't do all of this nonsense.  The various groups that rank international retirement living have moved Thailand down in the ranks again and again.  From a top 5 ranking years ago, to the last time I looked they fell below 15 and the immigration and ease of residency requirement score was 61 pts.  D- if you remember your school grading system.
     In any case, I concur with most thaivisa forum members posting here that are starting their plans to leave.  I enjoyed it. My friends are great and I will miss them, but time to head elsewhere for a fun life.  Mexico ranks number 1 right now on most of the surveys for foreign retirement living.  My retirement visa expires soon and when it does I am not renewing.  Maybe short jaunts I will miss old friends but no more living here the winter months of the year.  
      Change that immigration motto from Good Guys in Bad guys Out to "We pissed off the good guys and we will continue to fight with the bad guys!"
     

If anything it just gets easier if your genuine. According to Q and A from USA you will be able to just [emoji124] walk into immigration with bank book and they would be up to date on this .. No more travelling to the embassy and forking out 50 bucks, a really hassle for those living a long way away

So you go to the embassy once and then open a bank account.. Your done!

I'm not getting your grief. Did I miss something?

[jimn]

Not wishing to gloat and say "I told you so". But those US citizens who thought that it was only the BE who had made this decision are now proved wrong. It is now clear that there is a change in policy by TI who have informally told the embassy's about a change in policy without at this time issuing a new police order. I fully expect all the other embassy's now to follow. It will then be up to TI to reissue the police order detailing what evidence will be accepted for the income method or if the income method is being scrapped altogether. Open house for agents then on the 400k/800k method. One thing I am concerned about is the current income letter/stat dec currently being honoured at 6 months old. Many people myself included will get mine in November for April, but I would not be supprised if they moved the goalposts on this as well.

[dontoearth]

3 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Interesting you mentioned BKK Bank as not opening an account for you.

 

I know a well known Pattaya go-go, that on an irregular basis, has BKK Bank staff there 'opening new accounts.'

 

Just show up with your passport. That's it.

    I went to the Bangkok Bank the Silom branch about 2 years ago and they completely refused to let me open an account and after much polite discussion they asked for an embassy letter of approval that I could open a bank account.  I asked that they show me such a letter and the banker had a big plastic binder book of forms and did show me one.  I don't know if the permission letter will be effected by these changes.  I could not make heads not tails of what the letter was actually saying but the banker liked to file and keep them in her big plastic binder book. 

     I had Thai friends that wanted to help by 'fixing' things for me but I am sick of this way of living.  

     

[tropo]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Basha said:

Consular outreach in Phuket is provided by the American Citizen Services unit of the Consulate in Bangkok, so this will apply anywhere that they conduct outreach services (Pattaya, Phuket, etc). People thinking that the grass is greener elsewhere should look at what Malaysia requires. Applicants over 50 have to show liquid assets over RM350,000 ($83,842) , and a monthly income over RM10,000 ($2395.00). They must make a fixed deposit in a Malaysian bank of RM150,000 ($36,000). (Applicants who receive a government pension used to be exempted from making any fixed deposit although recently this exemption is no longer being given). A $5000 bond is also required to be posted. Whether this is refundable or not I don't know. Thailand has set the bar much, much lower for us. 

Ask yourself this. Would you retire in Malaysia if the visa was free with no bank deposit requirements? I wouldn't.

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, there are, and best to have this available if needed. While it sounds like Bkk immigration never has, people in other locations have been asked to explain untouched 800K accounts. Not a problem as long as they had a credible answer. Lacking one could raise suspicions that you have an illegal income stream of some sort.

 

But I am curious as to why someone would want to keep the 800K untouched and use other monies in an overseas account for living expenses? Whatever you gain in interest with the 800K you likely loose from the overseas account.?

The Bt800K I keep as big money in case I need it "immediately, right now, today, an emergency, etc" and for retirement extension of stay purposes.  Got tired of the embassy letter process and associated $50 a year to get it.   The money earns 1.3% right now (use to be around 2.3% until interest rates started going down) in a Krungsri Mee Tai Dai saving accounts which comes with a debit card and ibanking....can withdraw any amount of funds at any time without any interest penalties.  This current 1.3% is more than U.S. checking accounts pay, but yes, some money and savings accounts pay a little more.  And it's more than the typical 0.5% or less for a regular Thai savings account.  Plus, I don't have a fear of having the money in Thailand.

 

 

[zzaa09]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Why an exodus ? its not that hard to put money in a Thai account. If you have the money its just moving money around.

I suspect only a few know the tricks of the game.

Not terribly difficult if you know how to play. 

[garyk]

18 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    It has gotten harder and harder to open a bank account here in TH.  My older friends that have been here years have accounts but I was turned down by several banks and even the Bangkok Bank which has done my friends said ,"NO!"   They asked for an embassy letter.   ROFL!  Oh my!  The Bangkok Bank had a New York City branch which made it easier to get around US laws that make it impossible to transfer more than 10K without being reported to the US govt.  I heard Bangkok Bank is closing the New York branch.  It seems the govt. would like our money but they haven't told the banks.  And the banks don't seem to want it.  Thai friends have agreed to take me to the bank and clear the way but it all seems like that will only solve the problem until they come up with the next retirement visa change.  I wonder when they will go back to the discussions demanding mandatory medical insurance proof or purchase?  Again, I have health insurance but can you imagine the hassle of getting the various forms that would be required.  

    I have more than enough income but I am tired of the hoop jumping.  Other retirement countries don't do all of this nonsense.  The various groups that rank international retirement living have moved Thailand down in the ranks again and again.  From a top 5 ranking years ago, to the last time I looked they fell below 15 and the immigration and ease of residency requirement score was 61 pts.  D- if you remember your school grading system.

     In any case, I concur with most thaivisa forum members posting here that are starting their plans to leave.  I enjoyed it. My friends are great and I will miss them, but time to head elsewhere for a fun life.  Mexico ranks number 1 right now on most of the surveys for foreign retirement living.  My retirement visa expires soon and when it does I am not renewing.  Maybe short jaunts I will miss old friends but no more living here the winter months of the year.  

      Change that immigration motto from Good Guys in Bad guys Out to "We pissed off the good guys and we will continue to fight with the bad guys!"

     

I kinda agree with you. I don't have any ties to Thailand what so ever and enjoy travel. Hopefully for a few more years before I have to stop. Which is coming faster than i expected... ahhh

I am going to wait until the dust settles to make my decision. But, I have ruled out the 800K in a bank option for now. I am not ready to make Thailand a 24/7 retirement destination.

And the hassles and filth are getting to me. 

My honeymoon phase is definitely over... lol

[blackhorse]

    I went to the Bangkok Bank the Silom branch about 2 years ago and they completely refused to let me open an account and after much polite discussion they asked for an embassy letter of approval that I could open a bank account.  I asked that they show me such a letter and the banker had a big plastic binder book of forms and did show me one.  I don't know if the permission letter will be effected by these changes.  I could not make heads not tails of what the letter was actually saying but the banker liked to file and keep them in her big plastic binder book. 
     I had Thai friends that wanted to help by 'fixing' things for me but I am sick of this way of living.  
     

The banker was showing you how to word the embassy letter. Just doing his job
I had the same but still managed to open an account at 2 banks, BKK bank and thanachart without anything but a tourist visa

Dress nice, tell them you want to transfer money for a condo purchase.. Use your imagination. Honestly if you give up at this minor hurdle I doubt very much you will succeed in Mexico either

[Thaidream]

11 minutes ago, jimn said:

urrently being honoured at 6 months old. Many people myself included will get mine in November for April, but I would not be supprised if they moved the goalposts on this as well.

Embassy Web site states they have confirmed  with Thai Imm the letter will be valid for 6 months- I am printing this from their web site and if any issue will show it and ask for a supervisor. I can't see an issue as Thai Imm have accepted it in the past- mine was 5 months old last time- they didn't even blink.

[manarak]

10 minutes ago, tropo said:

Ask yourself this. Would you retire in Malaysia if the visa was free with no bank deposit requirements? I wouldn't.

very true!

[Airalee]

28 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

But I am curious as to why someone would want to keep the 800K untouched and use other monies in an overseas account for living expenses? Whatever you gain in interest with the 800K you likely loose from the overseas account.?

 

 

For myself, I keep it untouched just for peace of mind.  I am one of those “think too much” kind of people and don’t want to have another thing on my mind to think about such as what the exchange rates might be when I decide/need to transfer the next big chunk of change in.  For convenience sake too,  which is why I also pay 3-4 months rent at a time.  Yes, I’m aware that it costs a little more in opportunity costs, time value of money etc. but for me, it’s worth it.

[Acharn]

Well, there's a form the Defense Finance and Accounting Service issued every year or whenever the amount I'm paid changes (e.g., the tax cut last year), and Social Security Adminiastration sends me a form every January telling me how much I get every month, how much they take back for Medicare, and how much is put in my checking account. I could download a printout from my bank account showing the amount being deposited there every month. The question is, will Immigration accept those? they are not documents the Consulate will certify. The previous statements from British citizens that this was going to happen were not persuasive. A document from American Citizen's Services at the American Embassy is. We still need more information, from Thai Immigration, stating what documentation they will accept.

[JimGant]

Quote

6 hours ago, peterb17 said:

Is it an urban myth - if you are American- you just go along and swear some oath in front  of your flag and say - yes my income is $3000 a month or whatever . 

Then hey presto- the income letter appears .

 

Please tell me that is an urban myth. 

Can't say for the Americans, but that's exactly what the Aussies do

Yes, Great Britain, former colonialists, at least those who were rebels and criminals, are afforded higher trust by their governments than is afforded your citizens. Shame an oath means so little today in jolly old Britain. Shame, too, it now means so little in Thailand too.... Sigh.

[garyk]

1 minute ago, manarak said:

very true!

I absolutely love Georgetown. Fraziers Hill, Cameron highlands. I met a lot of very nice people there. Still have people there I met that I correspond with?  Food is excellent ++. 

I drove my pickup there and stayed on and off for a few months. It was not too bad. Not Thailand but not bad IMO.

[jimn]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Embassy Web site states they have confirmed  with Thai Imm the letter will be valid for 6 months- I am printing this from their web site and if any issue will show it and ask for a supervisor. I can't see an issue as Thai Imm have accepted it in the past- mine was 5 months old last time- they didn't even blink.

Lets hope this is the case but you never know.

[tropo]

33 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

 My friends are great and I will miss them, but time to head elsewhere for a fun life

LOL> A "fun life". You sound like an immature teenager without a care in the world. I think most expats are past looking for fun and would settle for a comfortable, organised lifestyle with no stress about constant rule changes. Many just want to enjoy married life with their families.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Of what?

You wrote, " As I advised in another thread, Immigration are discussing how to deal with this problem."

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

LOL> A "fun life". You sound like an immature teenager without a care in the world. I think most expats are past looking for fun and would settle for a comfortable, organised lifestyle with no stress about constant rule changes. Many just want to enjoy married life with their families.

Frankly- I'm tired of the whole thing- 50 years of putting up with constant change; constant interpretations depending where you live on and on.  Huge investment in houses; condos; cars ; taking care of spouses and kids.   I've about reached my limit.

[tropo]

7 hours ago, giddyup said:

7 hours ago, peterb17 said:

I’m a bit confused ( quite easy these days)

As a Brit I have to provide printed out copies of bank statements- I suppose you could forge them - but not so easy.

 

Is it an urban myth - if you are American- you just go along and swear some oath in front  of your flag and say - yes my income is $3000 a month or whatever . 

Then hey presto- the income letter appears .

 

Please tell me that is an urban myth. 

Can't say for the Americans, but that's exactly what the Aussies do.

The Aussies don't sear some oath in front of a flag. They just sign a statutory declaration form, usually in front of a Thai staff member. I never see one Australian Embassy official when I go there.

[RichardColeman]

6 hours ago, blackhorse said:

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Or join me in the buyer's market?

The ones forced out are poor and don't even have 65 k let alone 800k. And you think they own condos? That's cute

I think some people will find themselves on the wrong side of these requirments  simply because they used their retirement bulk money to BUY a condo to reduce their overheads. Now they face being sent home with the loss of their assets or sold at a reduced price.

 

It will be a buyers market - NOT a sellers

[garyk]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Frankly- I'm tired of the whole thing- 50 years of putting up with constant change; constant interpretations depending where you live on and on.  Huge investment in houses; condos; cars ; taking care of spouses and kids.   I've about reached my limit.

+1 brother.

At 55 I made a decision. Sold my property, bought a small home in the city. And hit the road.

I have never been happier. And I am not apologizing to anyone about my decision.

It is a wonderful life to be enjoyed, and a world to see.

[dontoearth]

28 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

The banker was showing you how to word the embassy letter. Just doing his job
I had the same but still managed to open an account at 2 banks, BKK bank and thanachart without anything but a tourist visa

Dress nice, tell them you want to transfer money for a condo purchase.. Use your imagination. Honestly if you give up at this minor hurdle I doubt very much you will succeed in Mexico either

    I was in Mexico having dinner with my friends which have retired in MX.   No 90 day forms!  A 6 month visitor pass at the airport for free and then you can file one permanent resident request and upon approval it is good for life!

[Internatltraveler]

I left a message elsewhere on this site about this notification. Now I am asking someone who has contact with a decision maker at the USA Embassy to intervene in this issue based on this information. I have lived in Chile and Costa Rica before landing here in Thailand. Both countries have income requirements for long term visas in their countries. But the USA Embassy in both of those countries provide a letter certifying income where possible to American citizens. It is false and misleading for this embassy in BKK to say they cannot verify government records with the Social Security and Veteran's administration. All they have to do is go online and get that information directly and then certify that they have verified the funds, plain and simple, easy for them to do. For them to say otherwise is either an out and out lie or the rules have changed all over the world which I really doubt. This embassy simply does not have the creativity to simply establish a policy stating what documents are necessary to provide in order for them to verify funds. It is no big deal if our income depends on government pensions of any type and they could simply replace this new policy stating what can easily be verified by them rather than saying that income from any source cannot be verified. This is plain and simple not true in my personal experience.

 

So these people need to be challenged with this false information and need to be challenged as to why they are not willing to take the simple steps to establish what sources that they can verify and what documents or steps would be necessary to verify our sources of income particularly if we receive our funds from a government source that is so easy to verify.

 

This is a case of bureaucratic nonsense once again by our great government, rather than finding a way they can serve the citizens of the USA they simple close the door on us with this kind of nonsense. So if anyone here has a contact into the consulate general directly, then that seems to be the only way that we can challenge this decision which appears to be made more by the Thais working in our embassy than by the experienced officials who should be able to do a little research and find a better solution to this situation.

 

I for one would never have 800,00) baht just sitting around to tie up in one of these unreliable banks that I read so much about being duped by, etc. And can you imagine having a direct deposit coming from the government in the USA to a Thai bank since we may be the first ones to get this offer? There are many places for our money to disappear being handled this way it seems to me. My monthly income is nearly double what is required to stay here and it just pisses me off to no end for our embassy to do this to us simply because they are too lazy to do the necessary research and get this resolved in our favor.

[dontoearth]

20 minutes ago, tropo said:

LOL> A "fun life". You sound like an immature teenager without a care in the world. I think most expats are past looking for fun and would settle for a comfortable, organised lifestyle with no stress about constant rule changes. Many just want to enjoy married life with their families.

    Thanks for the compliment.  I definitely want to enjoy being a teeanger as long as possible!  

    You are correct.  I don't have a thai wife or thai relatives.

     I would enjoy a more organized more together retirement visa system.  Hopefully, someday.

     For those staying I am hoping for the best and the least amount of hassle.  I will just be a short-time visitor from now on in TH.