Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

And for every person on here that claims they are "uber rich" and spending far in excess of "65,000" per month, there are probably a dozen that get a tenth of that amount, or nothing at all (but still get an Income letter every year that claims otherwise).

I don't see any foreigners surviving on less than Thai min-wage (10% of 65,000) - or many anywhere close to it - and certainly not "nothing at all".  There is no welfare for foreigners, here, so all foreigners are spending money to eat and have a place indoors to sleep.

[David Walden]

5 minutes ago, pagallim said:

The 65,000 baht question.

Thailand expects that people coming to live there will have Bt65,000 a month to live on.  Seems quite reasonable to me.  Malaysia requires much more.  Most other countries require more a lot more.  Some require less.  That is what Thailand has been expecting to happen, but TIT.  They may have to look in their own backyard to see how to fix things up. 

[connda]

20 minutes ago, garyk said:

Haha, I am heading down to Mexico next March or April. I actually like it there.

Better beaches, better surfing, better beer. 

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Who is traveling?  This is about people who retired or married here, and likely have nothing in their passport-country to return to - and would have to live like street-dogs there if they did. 

 

Retirees on social-security eating pet-food happens in the USA, often because medications are many-times more expensive and overhead is crazy-high relative to std-of-living.  Thailand is an attractive retirement-destination because it is so much more affordable, while not being completely undeveloped and/or dangerous.

 

Worst-case, time to "travel" one-way to live in Cambodia, Vietnam, or the PI.

 

If you don't care about his quality-of-life (likely horrible back home by comparison), tell that bit to the Thais who remain employed due to his spending here.  Or don't they matter, either?  

Tell it to Thai immigration and the American embassy.  I'm sure it will make a big difference.  If you don't have 25 grand to put in a interest bearing Thai bank account that you can withdraw at any time Thailand doesn't want you and the American embassy agrees with them. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Time Traveller]

41 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Do you have any idea how time consuming that would be?

Yes, precisely the same amount of time. Just that Thai immigration would need to do it themselves instead of outsourcing the task for free to foreign embassies

[david555]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

There's a limit to how much baht in cash you can take out. It's not a big amount.

UP to 20 000 usd cash value in any foreign currency undeclared !! a person...(you can find in customs regulation ..)AND my KK debit card works in my E.U.country …. so what is the problem to take your 800 k out,(but  not by internet possible for me )

Edited October 26, 2018 by david555

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

As I mentioned before, most if not all western Embassies do not have access to the information required to actually verify income... they just cannot do it.  The change in requirements by the Thai authorities in what they are requiring is not possible... So expect more embassies to follow.

The Australian Embassy can verify my income in less than 5 mins, all I have to do is present my income statement from the Australian Government for my pension and the job is done, no problem. The UK and USA need to change their system because this has been in the Thai laws for a long time and it is only the the 2 embassies will not change their documentation to a system where the onus is on the applicant to provide the embassy with the verification of income before they are given the documentation that suits Thai Immigration.

[bkk6060]

6 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I also think that there will be a lot more marriages now due to the lower income requirements.

The stupidest reason in the world to get married.

But, I agree with you the simple minds of justification.....

Edited October 26, 2018 by bkk6060

[willwildy]

7 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I just reviewed the CNX FAQ page and it states “early renewals”.  Does this mean an Ext of Stay can be renewed up to 3 months early (in CNX)?  

Yes. So you could get your affadavit in december and use it to renew in june for a visa expiring in september. 

[pagallim]

14 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No, the ball is not in the Immigration Bureaus hand at all, it is in the UK and USA Embassies hands to find some way of supplying the accepted paperwork to the Thai Immigration. Why does Thai immigration have to change the rules? Would American Immigration change the rules for Thai's? This is not a Thai immigration problem it is a UK and USA embassies problem to come up with documentation that suits Thai Immigration. It is quite simply to change to a Statutory Declaration system with you showing the proof of income to your embassy when you sign the Stat Dec. I am an Australian and I do a Stat Dec plus I present my pension income statement from the Australian government to show that what I have declared is true and correct and the pension income statement is on official Australian Government letterhead. Both the UK and the USA need to do the same system as Australia

You need to grasp that the UK Embassy signed a letter saying that the applicant had provided documentation showing that he/she earned a certain amount.   The US Embassy acts as a signature witness to a signed Statutory Declaration by an applicant.   Neither can comply with the verification that's now being insisted upon by Thai Immigration which is why they're both ceasing the service.

 

Forget about providing originals of pension letters etc from whatever source, be they government or private, without contacting the income providers and receiving a response (never going to happen), Embassies cannot truthfully verify whether the details are correct.

[Kadilo]

5 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I also think that there will be a lot more marriages now due to the lower income requirements.

Does it have to be the full blown registered in BKK type of wedding or can you pop down your local village temple and that will suffice to get a marriage visa.

 

its the former isnt it ????

 

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Thailand expects that people coming to live there will have Bt65,000 a month to live on.  Seems quite reasonable to me.  Malaysia requires much more.  Most other countries require more a lot more.  Some require less.  That is what Thailand has been expecting to happen, but TIT.  They may have to look in their own backyard to see how to fix things up. 

That's a lot of TOTALLY FALSE information.

Thailand does not require any specific level of spending.

Yes, some nations require more to qualify for retirement status including Malaysia and of course Australia.

However, the vast majority of nations have no formal retirement visa program at all.

The majority of those that do are in Latin America. I am not aware of even ONE of the many formal programs in Latin America that requires income EVEN CLOSE to as much as the current Thailand requirement (65K per month). (Correction -- possibly BRAZIL) Most  are closer to 30K to 40K per month.  So stop making up stuff that you clearly know nothing about. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Jingthing

[MikeOKitches]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Cambodia - ~$360/yr for annual extensions (an actual "Visa" sticker which is Multiple-Entry) last I checked.  Never need to leave the country.  Agents handle it all for $25 (USD) or so - no hundreds-of-dollars to fund the Multi-Level-Marketing style brown-envelope octupus-system. 

..........

I've always viewed Cambodia as a viable option to Thailand. I've been to Phenom Pehn a dozen times, and I've always enjoyed myself there. The Khemer people are some of the nicest I've met on the planet. Plus, the US dollar is acceptable currency. Is the above information accurate? Thank you, JackThompson, for posting this.

 

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Will27 said:

13 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I'm going next week to change from retirement to a Marriage Visa.. B400,000 is a lot more acceptable to me tan B800,000.

I also think that there will be a lot more marriages now due to the lower income requirements.

But at some offices, this is quite a rigamorole to go through.  If in the Jomtien area, you had better own your own condo, or at least ensure your landlord is a high-ranking Thai govt-official, so they won't try to skewer him through you. 

 

Or, like with retirement-based (and maybe easier to keep it based on retirement), you can just pay an agent and all the "problems" magically vanish, including the need to prove any money at all (beyond the cash agent-fee).  No witnesses, no 30-day "under consideration" period, no cross-examination of the wife as if she is a traitor, etc.

[johnjohn2]

Im chatting with a guy on Facebook right now says he just did his extension and didnt have to show embassy letter or Bank book. Says he just printed his US Bank statements. And showed a SS letter. I dont know but Im pretty sure he is lying to me.

 

[johnjohn2]

When I told him i didnt believe him he said this:

"We’re living in the 21th century. Most of us have Banking apps on our smartphones. If the Thai government really wants to implement Thai 4.0. The Thai immigration income requirement can verified by a few clicks of a button."

[Time Traveller]

15 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

What a load of disingenuous, passive-aggressive nonsense from Thailand Immigration.

 

Seriously, this whole Income Letter was Thai Immigration's brain child at some point in the past.  They came up with the monthly income scheme, possibly without thinking it through - shocking, innit?  So they cut a deal with Embassies to produce these affidavits/statdecs.  Thais were relieved to get out from under the admin mess they created, and have been happily checking the box they created, ever since.

 

All these years later, they pretend that old verification requirement is now a real thing, then in the same breath, use it to break the deal their predecessors made long ago. 

 

I have no problem with them ending it.  Their country, their train set. 

 

What makes this so krappy is they don't have the balls to own it.  They are hiding behind the curtain whispering their ultimatum, which puts the onus on individual 1st world Embassies to publicly announce they are unable to comply with the Thailand's unyielding gold standard.  We are getting this Drip, Drip, Drip.

 

The irony is, Thailand itself couldn't comply either.  Even if they could they wouldn't.  Not for this reason.  They think they look good now but in the end, they won't.  They are short-sighted, incapable of glimpsing tomorrow's loss of face until it smacks them in the backside. 

Correct, this problem is created 100% by Thai immigration. It's obvious to anyone with a brain, it's impossible to verify anyone's income, unless you base it off of tax returns filed each year. 

Glad that the embassies are finally standing up to the ignorant Thai immigration who try to force this on foriegn embassies to do something they just can't do.

 

The EASY solution is simply for Thai immigration to make all Foreigners living in Thailand to file Thai Tax returns each year and use that as the income evidence. It would be simple and do away with wasting money on embassy letters, and also generate more income for Thailand.

 

[Will27]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

The stupidest reason in the world to get married.

But, I agree with you the simple minds of justification.....

You're taking it the wrong way.

 

I know of 2 guys who recently married their long time partners because of the drop

in the Aussie dollar to the Baht.

 

They used to be on a retirement extension because it was easier and less paperwork

but decided to go down the marriage route.

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, pagallim said:

You need to grasp that the UK Embassy signed a letter saying that the applicant had provided documentation showing that he/she earned a certain amount.   The US Embassy acts as a signature witness to a signed Statutory Declaration by an applicant.   Neither can comply with the verification that's now being insisted upon by Thai Immigration which is why they're both ceasing the service.

 

Forget about providing originals of pension letters etc from whatever source, be they government or private, without contacting the income providers and receiving a response (never going to happen), Embassies cannot truthfully verify whether the details are correct.

My statements are from the pension provider and they are originals and they are certified by the Australian Embassy. So your remark about "never going to happen" is crap because it does happen.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

You could do this, but you'll pay 2 transfer fees a month to do so. Weigh that against keeping say 200k (or whatever the difference is between 800k and your living costs) in an interest bearing Thai account.

One really hopes that this combination method will still exist for retirement extensions.

 

Does anyone actually know the current mathematics behind the combination method. Do you begin with baht 800,000 subtract your bank balance held for three months before renewing and divide by 12?

 

Say 800,000 - 200,000 = 600,000 and then 600,000 divide by 12 months, requiring only proof of Baht 50,000 a month??

 

Under "unintended consequences, making things too difficult is simply going to make visa agents and corruption a growth industry.

 

I do have the Baht 65,000 a month in income and in fact have, on average, brought in that amount, but if proving it to Thai immigrations becomes nearly impossible, using a visa agent might seem an attractive option  .... something I would never have even considered a month ago or so.

 

Fortunately my extension renewal can be done in December, so I should be legal until January 2020 by which time immigrations and the embassies and TV posters may have brought some clarity to it all.

 

Or maybe I'll get lucky and get run over by a Chinese tour bus before then.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Suradit69

[Will27]

7 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

The Australian Embassy can verify my income in less than 5 mins, all I have to do is present my income statement from the Australian Government for my pension and the job is done, no problem. The UK and USA need to change their system because this has been in the Thai laws for a long time and it is only the the 2 embassies will not change their documentation to a system where the onus is on the applicant to provide the embassy with the verification of income before they are given the documentation that suits Thai Immigration.

How can the embassy verify your income?

[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, johnjohn2 said:

When I told him i didnt believe him he said this:

"We’re living in the 21th century. Most of us have Banking apps on our smartphones. If the Thai government really wants to implement Thai 4.0. The Thai immigration income requirement can verified by a few clicks of a button."

I can write an authentic looking bank app with imaginary balances... 

[johnjohn2]

Just now, bkkcanuck8 said:

I can write an authentic looking bank app with imaginary balances... 

Yea but if it works for him hope it works for me and everyone else.

[sqwakvfr]

If the 3 month early renewal is possible then heck I’ll go in next week because I am already inside the 3 month window.  As usual the Agent has not responded yet.  The Embassy FAQ document did state “Transition Period”?  Are we in the “Transition Period” or does that start in Jan 2019?

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, HHTel said:

One of the reasons I don't want to put 800K in a Thai bank at almost zero interest.  All my current pension investments have produced a lot more than that.  One stock gave 19% growth and I'm not talking risk investment.

what stock is that?

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

Joe what Many members seem to be missing the point is I have the 65,000 baht a month Pension and Super combined However at the moment I/o will not accept a bankbook as Proof of Income

My post you quoted had nothing to with what you have posted.

At the moment is the key word. Immigration is going to have to clarify what they will accept now.

[bkk6060]

1 minute ago, Will27 said:

You're taking it the wrong way.

 

I know of 2 guys who recently married their long time partners because of the drop

in the Aussie dollar to the Baht.

 

They used to be on a retirement extension because it was easier and less paperwork

but decided to go down the marriage route.

Wrong how?

Seems the worst desperate excuse ever to get married to a Thai to qualify for a Visa.

Come back in a few years and tell me how many of them are divorced and their wives took everything are now they are truly penniless..

 

[Russell17au]

Just now, Will27 said:

How can the embassy verify your income?

By the income statements that I get from CentreLink my pension provider which is an Australian Government organization, so the documents are from the Australian Government and they cannot be altered, so by presenting them to the Australian Embassy and they certify them as correct.

[Will27]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But at some offices, this is quite a rigamorole to go through.  If in the Jomtien area, you had better own your own condo, or at least ensure your landlord is a high-ranking Thai govt-official, so they won't try to skewer him through you. 

 

Or, like with retirement-based (and maybe easier to keep it based on retirement), you can just pay an agent and all the "problems" magically vanish, including the need to prove any money at all (beyond the cash agent-fee).  No witnesses, no 30-day "under consideration" period, no cross-examination of the wife as if she is a traitor, etc.

For some people, it might be (getting married) their only option unfortunately.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Join the crowd of sellers!

Or join me in the buyer's market?