Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Rimmer]

A couple of troll posts have been removed

[mwbrown]

3 hours ago, assayer said:

If you doubt it anymore then follow the attached link:

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-mission-in-thailand-to-cease-providing-income-affidavit/

From the notice:

 

Quote

Because the U.S. government has no means of confirming a U.S. citizen’s income, a notarized affidavit from the U.S. Embassy has never met the requirement to prove a minimum income level for a non- immigrant “O”, “O-A”, or “O-X” long-term stay visa.

 

But, then, why did you charge us $50 each for a document you knew wouldn't meet the requirement, and why did Thai Immigration accept your document you knew wouldn't meet the requirement?  Can I get all of my $50 payments back?

 

[baansgr]

Almost $30,000 tied up in a low interest account. PI overs retirement visa for life over age 37. $10,000 only or low income and even lower for ex servicemen. Something will have to give, somewhere, sometime.

[natway09]

When you think it through it does make sense

To the best of my knowledge non of them actually got verified ... just stamped & sealed

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, mwbrown said:

From the notice:

 

 

But, then, why did you charge us $50 each for a document you knew wouldn't meet the requirement, and why did Thai Immigration accept your document you knew wouldn't meet the requirement?  Can I get all of my $50 payments back?

 

Only if you leave immediately

[Sheryl]

18 minutes ago, FPizzle said:

Does anyone know what constitutes verification of income from Social Security in the US? Will the yearly letter we get suffice or do we need it notarized, signed and blessed by 40 monks. Also note the monetary requirement. Has to be int he bank 60 days before your application and can be withdrawn and replaced the next time you apply for the visa. You don't need to keep it in the Thai bank all year, probably only for abut 3 months or so.

It is at this stage completely unknown what Thai immigration will accept as verification of monthly income.

 

There are isolated verbal reports of some IOs saying proof of transfer of 65,000 (40,000 married) into a Thai bank account monthly, presumably that means bank statement plus bank letter, but yet to be confirmed.

 

Yes, the lump sum amounts need only be in the country 2 months before initial extension and then 3 months before each subsequent one.  Removing the entire amount immediately after getting an extension, leaving nothing or next to nothing in the bank would likely be questioned, though -   they will ask how you are financing your living costs while here (this has already happened to people in the past). But an annual post-extension removal of a chunk of it, with the rest then showing periodic draw downs, would probably fly.

[oobar]

This seasoned 800k has to arrive from out of the country, right?  In the case of someone who has several million baht in a Thai RMF or provident fund, money previously earned in Thailand, does that also mean one cannot simply cash out 800k for the deposit?

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think you are right.

 

A lot of retirees are  married but on retirement rather than marriage extensions because it was easier to do (and Imm offices encouraged it).

 

I expect that most of those among them who were using the  income method rather  than the 800K method will switch to extension on basis of marriage.

I got a marriage extension to get the extra 30 days when I had a problem with my passport. I changed to retirement when they introduced home visits for those without children but now they have introduced home visits for retirement it will be no big deal to go back to marriage.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

I got a marriage extension to get the extra 30 days when I had a problem with my passport. I changed to retirement when they introduced home visits for those without children but now they have introduced home visits for retirement it will be no big deal to go back to marriage.

Home visits for retirement? When did I miss that?

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, peterb17 said:

I’m a bit confused ( quite easy these days)

As a Brit I have to provide printed out copies of bank statements- I suppose you could forge them - but not so easy.

 

Is it an urban myth - if you are American- you just go along and swear some oath in front  of your flag and say - yes my income is $3000 a month or whatever . 

Then hey presto- the income letter appears .

 

Please tell me that is an urban myth. 

Pretty much what the British embassy was doing since they've said they will no longer issue income letters because they admit they can't really verify the claims made and never have been able to other than glancing at some printouts that an applicant shows them.

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So the British Embassy was right after all.
 

Of course they were, they're not idiots.

 

The idiots are the people who repeatedly accused the British Embassy of lying. Why would they lie? They're just doing a job and passing the message on.

 

[Number 6]

13 minutes ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

I don't think so,I guess a lot of people will get a one year visa at laos or wherever it is possible to get one and then they will do visa runs every 90 days

This is quite impossible

Edited October 26, 2018 by Number 6

[mrmicbkktxl]

1 minute ago, Number 6 said:

This is quite impossible.

 

Why impossible?

[smotherb]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Bad news for US nationals.

 

I have said it before just swearing to something leaves too many loopholes open its illegal to swear to things that are not the truth but the chances of being caught were almost non existent. 

 

Seems all sides have finally seen the same problems and fixed it in the most convenient way for them and not for the best way for their clients. Seems putting money in a Thai account is the way to go.

Sounds like sour grapes--jealous were you?

 

You think most US income holders were lying do you? Then why is the UK embassy stopping the income letters too?

 

You see, neither embassy is willing to verify income. The only difference; the UK embassy required you to provide paper work. 

 

And you couldn't figure that out, eh?

[nickmondo]

4 hours ago, wpcoe said:

Lovely.  My retirement extension is up for renewal mid-January, so it's now too late to have the B800,000 on deposit in a Thai bank for 90 days.  What the heck am I supposed to do?

you put the money in your bank

you leave the country, come back in on a tourist visa

go to immigration straight away and request 3 month O Visa to start at end of your tourist visa

2 months into this visa, go to Immigration to do paperwork for Retirement Visa.

I have done this twice.

Need normal passport stuff, departure card, rental contract, yellow book copy of owner, id of owner, map of where your house is.

 

[Number 6]

1 minute ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

Why impossible?

Because embassies in the region have long since stopped issuing perpetual non-o for vagabond westerners.

 

Non OA - home country

 

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Bad news for US nationals.

 

I have said it before just swearing to something leaves too many loopholes open its illegal to swear to things that are not the truth but the chances of being caught were almost non existent. 

 

Seems all sides have finally seen the same problems and fixed it in the most convenient way for them and not for the best way for their clients. Seems putting money in a Thai account is the way to go.

Well I didn't come to paradise to get marry. Defeats the purpose. Thai Elite was my choice and get vip service at the airport. No stress No mess. So this place is truly paradise for me. They will get the money out of you any way it goes. They make you pay to be married to a Thai. So just pay the money and get immigration out of your life. 

[hobobo]

4 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

Early next year

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, willwildy said:

Yes. So you could get your affadavit in december and use it to renew in june for a visa expiring in september. 

I have not seen any defintion of what they mean by "early visa renewals" i.e. how r=early.

 

The other issue is how many IOs upcountry will know about that agreeement.

[marcusarelus]

56 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

Google = ok for CC ..... Debit card = maybe.....

It was a BKK bank officer that told me no go.....

 

They might service only domestically/Thailand.....

 

I ran into something similar in PI with a different card (Visa) once upon a time.....Some banks wouldn't accept international cards - both directions, domestic only......

You are posting as facts things about which you don't have a clue.  If you get SS in Thailand you have to remove it from your Bank of Bangkok account in person.  Take it out and put it in a SCB account (online banking)  Or.  Check and see where you can withdraw money from Union pay in America before you quote information which is in error.  Being angry at Thailand is hardly justification for posting things that are false and no I don't care about PI it has nothing to do with this topic.  

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, DUS said:

Where did the number of 3 million foreigners come from? Genuine question!

This include all people from nearby countries (Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar) but they are not (in a huge majority) on Retirement extension !

[mrmicbkktxl]

3 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Because embassies in the region have long since stopped issuing perpetual non-o for vagabond westerners.

 

Non OA - home country

 

I think you are right,I'm married but on retirement extension,to get a one year visa in Laos you must have a marriage certificate

Edited October 26, 2018 by mrmicbkktxl

[Kerryd]

1 hour ago, ianf said:

How appalling. For those of us with GENUINE pension letters and statements...which is most of us... we are the ones getting damaged by this and yeah! I dont transfer everything to Thailand each month. a) because I visit UK and need some money there and (b) because it is easier to do in a lump and (c) because my wife earns she contributes to household expenses and I dont need 65000 here each month. Its appalling that you assume everyone except yourself is a cheat.

WHERE did I say that I assume "everyone" is a cheat ? WHERE ??

 

That's right - I didn't so go stuff yourself along with your "appalling" attitude. I know that there are a lot of people who are honest and do follow the rules. 

I said "most of them" which is probably true and is probably why so many are complaining about the changes. Because most of them probably can't meet the requirements and have been getting along by using income letters that allow them to claim to be making as much as they want, without actually having to prove it.

I did NOT say "all of them" or that "all people who use income letters are cheats".
 

The embassies are not going to hand out those letters any more because they CAN'T verify if what everyone claims they are receiving is true. And don't give me that bull**** that they have nothing better to do or that they somehow have the magical ability to press a button and have all your financial information available to them at a glance. They don't. 

It is very likely that all the other embassies will soon do the same thing as the UK and American embassies as they will also be expected to verify that the amount of income being claimed is real and, like the American and UK embassies, they won't be able to do that. 

 

And do you know who usually whines the loudest every time something like this happens ? It's usually the ones who CAN'T meet the requirement and know they will be exposed, despite all their claims of how super rich they supposedly are.
Not "all" of them - but a lot of them. Quite possibly even "most" of them. 
There are a few (and I suspect it's a "very few") that can meet all the requirements and are upset at the changes. 

Just like a lot of the people who whined and complained when Immigration decided that the 400/800k in the bank had to be there for at least 3 months prior to applying for an extension. I suspect that a lot of the ones who whined the loudest were most likely the ones who DIDN'T have the money and were scamming the system by borrowing the money for a day just to get the bank letter.

 

Note I did not say "all the people who whined" or "all that whined the loudest" or that all those who were "borrowing" money for a day were cheats. But there were a lot of them that were. I knew some. They used to get by on 30 Day stamps and when that changed had to pay an "agent" to "borrow" the money for a day so they could get the bank letter. Some people are still doing that.

(Which is why Immigration is also cracking down on "Visa Agents".)

 

I find it hilarious as threads like this usually do expose just how many people have been skimming by without being able to actually meet the requirements. I also find it hilarious knowing who else is also reading all these posts.

 

Be careful though - you may be "appalled" to know that not everyone is as honest as you apparently assume them to be.

 

[HHTel]

6 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

you put the money in your bank

you leave the country, come back in on a tourist visa

go to immigration straight away and request 3 month O Visa to start at end of your tourist visa

2 months into this visa, go to Immigration to do paperwork for Retirement Visa.

I have done this twice.

Need normal passport stuff, departure card, rental contract, yellow book copy of owner, id of owner, map of where your house is.

 

What are you talking about.  The guy needs to extend his visa mid January.  He applies for the Embassy letter as usual but before 1st January, then does everything as before.  By the time his next extension is due in 2020, I'm sure there'll be an alternative system in place.

[jollyhangmon]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Home visits for retirement? When did I miss that?

Affirmative. In my case for the non-o conversion of a tourist visa, the whole shebang ... two statements of witnesses and all ...

Needless to say it probably depends very much on the office in charge if they really do above visits & just hope it's not the same for each future extension ... 

 

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Almost $30,000 tied up in a low interest account. PI overs retirement visa for life over age 37. $10,000 only or low income and even lower for ex servicemen. Something will have to give, somewhere, sometime.

A little under $25,000 and tied up for only 3 months.

 

And some of that amount you would nto have had available for any sort of long term investment anyhow since you do in fact have daily expenses here.

 

I am at a loss to understand all the people who talk about this 25K as money that would otherwise be invested in stocks or higher interest long term bank accounts in other countries.  That is so only if you have 0 living expenses in Thailand and I really do nto think there are many, if any, expats for whom that is the case.  The "opportunity costs" of putting 800K in the bank here pertains only to whatever amount of that is more than you are going to need for your living costs. And only for 3 months. I am not saying there is no loss, but it is much smaller than the >$1,000 a year people are making it out to be.

 

I can understand the dilemma of not having 800K, that's different. But someone well off enough that they make significant  income off of investments not wanting to use the 800K method because of what would in fact be a pretty small loss of interest income, I do nto find credible.

 

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said:

Well I didn't come to paradise to get marry. Defeats the purpose. Thai Elite was my choice and get vip service at the airport. No stress No mess. So this place is truly paradise for me. They will get the money out of you any way it goes. They make you pay to be married to a Thai. So just pay the money and get immigration out of your life. 

No they don't.  They give you a 50% discount over a retirement visa if you are married to a Thai. 

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I think they were premature in announcing their confidence that monthly income transfers could substitute. Now it appears the U.S. embassy is saying the same thing in a FAQ. But really, where is the official announcement from THAI IMMIGRATION!?!

Yes, the person who quoted some supervisor at CW sounded like she, the supervisor, was saying the same as was suggested by the embassies (re show Baht 65000 a month going into Thai account, etc). 

 

One wonders who is leading and who is following in terms of announcing/deciding what would be acceptable.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Suradit69

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

My motifs (it is a self made ETF) is returning more than 20% for the last two years. You can verify it in their websites.

Are you considering getting a retirement visa?  With all that money you certainly wouldn't need to use the income method.  Have you ever been to Thailand?  What kind of visa did you get?

Edited October 26, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Parsve]

4 hours ago, ThaiWai said:

Well it doesn’t say I can’t still get one at the consular outreach in Phuket in November so will do so as planned. My pension is well over the required income amount it’s up to Thailand to explain what proof they will want of that moving forward but my pension company simply offers letters stating that fact not leather bound presidential decrees signed in blood and sealed with the Whitehouse crest. Knowing Thailand they will want just that.

You are safe for one year, the new rules take effect on January 1, 2019.