Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

[Sheryl]

To get insurance in the UK one of the stipulations that must have been resident in the UK for the previous 3 or more commonly 6 months so anyone coming here the insurance and staying here is going to have a problem the following year, you may well take It out but should you try and claim there will be a problem.

Age is the other big problem, when you get past 60 things start to get complicated and the older you get the harder it becomes. I have seen policies here that go up to 74 and a few up to 85 but when you see the steep curve upwards its ridiculous. I know some companies you might have been with for a long time will often say that they will always insure you, until you see the premium they require.

Are the  insurance vultures circling looking to milk the silly old farangs even more? Makes you wonder.

The retirement visa financial requirements (800k) have been in position for over 10 years and it would not surprise me if they were to say that looking at the inflation figure over that period that from year XXXX this will increasing to XXXX, that I can understand but the insurance card would create a huge problem for many expats and also for the extended families they support, as usual the forward planning and understanding the knock on effects have not been thought through, just the cash up front scenario.

I think you may be confusing UK insurance intended for use in the UK, UK-issued travel insurance and expat insurance policies. The latter are designed for people living outside their home country and there is no requirement or expectation that you will spend any time back in your home country, nor do you need to get it before moving overseas. There are UK based companies offering this as well as French, German etc (and you do not have to be a national of those countries to get a policy).

 

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[bambula]

40'000 for an outpatient insurance it's just a joke and a pressure from the Thai insurances lobby to make more money. 

You will never spend much for a visit to a doctor and if you are seriously sick you will be hospitalized... 

But outpatient premium is much more expensive than the inpatient one and much more profitable. 

Thailand is ruled by lobbies and rich families that's it... 

 

 

 

 

[steve73]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

The 800k requirement is not a reserve nor is it expected to cover medical costs. It is for general living expenses and one is expected to draw down on it steadily over the year for that purpose.

 

It will be adequate to encompass outpatient medical and dental care for most people but certainly not cover major medical costs. Depending on one's lifestyle, age and whether one is supporting any dependents, it may also be adequate to purchase health insurance.

 

If 800k is not "expected to cover medical costs", then why is the proposed 400k of hospitalisation cover deemed sufficient?

 

Sure, in an Intl.  hospital, this figure would only cover relatively minor problems, but in a gov't hospital, it would cover significantly more (even at slightly inflated farang prices).

 

....And who says that one is expected to draw down the 800k over the year?

 

Most people I know who use this method keep it relatively intact throughout the year, and simply live off regular income (that could be much higher or lower than the 40/65k that is considered necessary, perhaps digging into the "savings" for the occasional or one off larger expense (which may or may not be health related).

 

The risk of drawing it down throughout the year could be too great when getting to "top-up" time, is exchange rates are in a lull.  (unless of course you are earning a significantly higher GUARANTEED interest or growth rate to offset this. (which is very unlikely in todays economic environment).

 

Rather than being "forced" to take mandatory insurance, which for the older members could be c. 25% of the hospitalization benefits (and probably wouldn't cover and pre-conditions anyway), better to have to keep 400k of the savings requirement in a "locked" medical account, that cannot be touched except for hospital bills, or repatriation.  In this way it would be available for pre-condition or exclusions, and if the medical requirement occurred during the seasoning period, then it would preclude a further extension, and one would need to repatriate anyway...but such is life.

 

Of course, I'm sure the "agents" would soon find a way around the inevitable dilemma that such a requirement would cause. 

 

[JetsetBkk]

34 minutes ago, steve73 said:

 

....And who says that one is expected to draw down the 800k over the year?

 

I keep the 800K in a separate account and don't touch it. It earns interest. No problems with Phuket Immigration.

[Chrisswe]

For me who stay here on retirement-visa (I have stay here for 22 years) I am 72 years old without any Health-Incurance . Than I want to know : is there any incurance company who sign an Health Insurance for me at 72 years old who is an former Cancer, Heart,(Pace-Maker inplant) currently Prostatic patient !!?????

I have allways payed my private hospitals bills myselfe !

[maprao]

Between a rock and a hard place. . . anyone Brit too old to get insurance cover here and cannot afford to fly back to the UK for treatment and pay 150% of any treatment under the NHS (to which many of us are still contributing via tax on our UK pensions).
 
Perhaps the answer is to slap on some burnt cork and hailing a passing refugee boat on its way to the welfare wonderland we helped create.

Go back to the UK.Say you back permanently nit just visiting. Those draconian rules won't apply.

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[poohy]

Fear not what on earth are you fretting about.

I am sure the agents can arrange paperwork for a nominal fee or failing that the Koh san forgery mob will be rubbing their sweaty paws together in quivering anticipation 

Note to self, Must look out that forgery guys phone number

[Sheryl]

 
If 800k is not "expected to cover medical costs", then why is the proposed 400k of hospitalisation cover deemed sufficient?
 
Sure, in an Intl.  hospital, this figure would only cover relatively minor problems, but in a gov't hospital, it would cover significantly more (even at slightly inflated farang prices).
 
....And who says that one is expected to draw down the 800k over the year?
 
Most people I know who use this method keep it relatively intact throughout the year, and simply live off regular income (that could be much higher or lower than the 40/65k that is considered necessary, perhaps digging into the "savings" for the occasional or one off larger expense (which may or may not be health related).
 
The risk of drawing it down throughout the year could be too great when getting to "top-up" time, is exchange rates are in a lull.  (unless of course you are earning a significantly higher GUARANTEED interest or growth rate to offset this. (which is very unlikely in todays economic environment).
 
Rather than being "forced" to take mandatory insurance, which for the older members could be c. 25% of the hospitalization benefits (and probably wouldn't cover and pre-conditions anyway), better to have to keep 400k of the savings requirement in a "locked" medical account, that cannot be touched except for hospital bills, or repatriation.  In this way it would be available for pre-condition or exclusions, and if the medical requirement occurred during the seasoning period, then it would preclude a further extension, and one would need to repatriate anyway...but such is life.
 
Of course, I'm sure the "agents" would soon find a way around the inevitable dilemma that such a requirement would cause. 
 

400k policy is indeed completely insufficient.

Annual premiums of any decent policy, even at the oldest age bands, are not remotely 25% of insured amount. Under 1%.

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[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Chrisswe said:

For me who stay here on retirement-visa (I have stay here for 22 years) I am 72 years old without any Health-Incurance . Than I want to know : is there any incurance company who sign an Health Insurance for me at 72 years old who is an former Cancer, Heart,(Pace-Maker inplant) currently Prostatic patient !!?????
I have allways payed my private hospitals bills myselfe !

Probably not.

You could probably have gotten a policy when you first moved here though which would have seen you through all of these things and still be in effect. The time to get health insurance is when you are still healthy. Unfortunately some people only think if it when already sick. I often get PMs saying in effect "I have developed condition X and can't afford treatment, how do I get insurance that will pay for it?" And the answer of course is you can't, that is not how insurance works. Just like you can't get homeowner insurance after your house has burned down


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[steve73]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

400k policy is indeed completely insufficient.

Annual premiums of any decent policy, even at the oldest age bands, are not remotely 25% of insured amount. Under 1%.

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Even if it were a higher (say) 4-10MM bt policy it would be completely insufficient for all pre-conditions...  but my 800k of savings would be fully utilizable for such...

So are you suggesting minimum mandatory cover should be higher than 400k then.?   And it still wouldn't cover preconditions.  Humm - do you work for a Thia Insurance Co... no don't answer that!

 

As to your 1%.... So you're saying I could get 400k bt of cover for just 4,000 bt per year... Even at <50 I was paying 25k for 1MM of cover (2.5%) and it was totally worthless when they welched on a <180k hospital operation, (which now results in me having a few pre-conditions to be excluded). 

There was a post on another thread suggesting around 90-100k premium for an 80-85 year old... (for the 400k of cover), and that's not even the oldest bracket.    

[sqwakvfr]

Taiping, when did I ever use the word “idiot”??

 

”

The Devil is in the Details”

 

The news article specifically mentions the Non Imm OA. 

 

I got an OA from the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles.  I got almost two years on that.  I am now on an extension of the OA.  Therefore, if this proposal goes into effect am I required to have the required 400k/40,000 plan?

 

What about a new applicant for an OA at a consulate who has not been to Thailand before?  How would this type of applicant comply with the new proposed rule?  

 

A lot of the details have to be worked out before this can be implemented.  

 

I currently have health insurance(way beyond the 400k) but I do not have OPD.  ”

Edited December 30, 2018 by sqwakvfr
Grammar

[moogradod]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Probably not.

You could probably have gotten a policy when you first moved here though which would have seen you through all of these things and still be in effect. The time to get health insurance is when you are still healthy. Unfortunately some people only think if it when already sick. I often get PMs saying in effect "I have developed condition X and can't afford treatment, how do I get insurance that will pay for it?" And the answer of course is you can't, that is not how insurance works. Just like you can't get homeowner insurance after your house has burned down

There must be a way out of this. Many might not even require an insurance to pay and not claim anything because they have enough money to pay for any eventualities, but need to get a confirmation of insurance just to satisfy the needs of immigration. Just pay the money for the paper but never get any payment because no claim will ever been made. Best business for any insurarance company ever. It is impossible to have an insurance if you have never been living in Thailand. Many might have an insurance in their home country but cannot keep it when they move. And it is very natural that the older you get you are more likely to have some preconditions. And could have some at ANY age. I suspect that preconditions is the real problem - not (only) the age. I do not know how this dilemma can be solved once the insurance requirement materializes. "Just stay home" is only a cynical answer and not a solution.

[scubascuba3]

If compulsory more people will be heading elsewhere. Healthy people paying for nothing

[sirineou]

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If compulsory more people will be heading elsewhere. Healthy people paying for nothing

 everyone is healthy until they are not? and even healthy people get into accidents. Actually healthy people get into more accidents since they are up and around.  

[bill1369]

On 12/23/2018 at 9:50 PM, Danthai said:

Those living or visiting here who are retired US military already have very good US Government Insurance called Tricare Select OS.  To use overseas they must have both part A and B medicare coverage. It has excellent coverage for Retired and their families.

You are correct, Tricare Overseas is a great insurance program. However, a retiree's 'insurance card' is the retiree's retired US military ID card. Somehow I don't see Thai officials believing a military ID card is a medical insurance card.

[Danthai]

On back specifies covered by medical. 

[scubascuba3]

 everyone is healthy until they are not? and even healthy people get into accidents. Actually healthy people get into more accidents since they are up and around.  

healthy people will be subsidising the obese bloaters. Personal accident insurance ok, but some of us don't smoke, drink too much or take drugs, or had a life of eating too much

[sirineou]

29 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

healthy people will be subsidising the obese bloaters. Personal accident insurance ok, but some of us don't smoke, drink too much or take drugs, or had a life of eating too much

That's how insurance works

Edited December 30, 2018 by sirineou

[Mango Bob]

If you have Tricare for Life go to this website to get proof of coverages at this website:   https://tricare.mil/Plans/Eligibility/DEERS/milConnect/Proof

[scubascuba3]

That's how insurance works

Usually you have a choice whether to play that game

[Krataiboy]

On 12/30/2018 at 2:58 PM, maprao said:

Go back to the UK.Say you back permanently nit just visiting. Those draconian rules won't apply.

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Is it really that simple? From what I gather, it's usual for UK hospitals to ask for proof of residential status.

[maprao]

Is it really that simple? From what I gather, it's usual for UK hospitals to ask for proof of residential status.

You won't be refused treatment. As for being bled depends in which local health authority you are.

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[meechai]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

16 hours ago, sirineou said:

That's how insurance works

Usually you have a choice whether to play that game

Guests have preferences not choices.

As a guest here you have no choice but to ask how high if they tell you jump.

You ask permission to stay..you ask permission to reenter after leaving, you ask permission every 90 days!

TIT

 

Of course you have an option but refusal to comply with what ever they tell you is not that option

[fforest1]

8 minutes ago, meechai said:

Guests have preferences not choices.

As a guest here you have no choice but to ask how high if they tell you jump.

You ask permission to stay..you ask permission to reenter after leaving, you ask permission every 90 days!

TIT

 

 

So any expat who does not have citizenship is nothing more than a groveling boot licker........And no matter what Thailand dishes-out.... The expats only response should be......Thank You Sir may I have another...lol

[scubascuba3]

Guests have preferences not choices.
As a guest here you have no choice but to ask how high if they tell you jump.
You ask permission to stay..you ask permission to reenter after leaving, you ask permission every 90 days!
TIT
 
Of course you have an option but refusal to comply with what ever they tell you is not that option

i predict that if insurance becomes compulsory, there will be far more people who just won't bother with a Visa and save money all round

[Jumbo1968]

It would be interesting too see a comparison off unpaid medical bills by Expats as opposed to tourists who come to Thailand either with no or inadequate insurance.

[holy cow cm]

4 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It would be interesting too see a comparison off unpaid medical bills by Expats as opposed to tourists who come to Thailand either with no or inadequate insurance.

Yes it would. 

[Pattaya46]

10 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It would be interesting too see a comparison off unpaid medical bills by Expats as opposed to tourists who come to Thailand either with no or inadequate insurance.

Why? Expats are not concerned by this move.

Or yes, a very few are, those using non O-A Visa. 

But what part of expats are they? 3% maybe?

[fforest1]

25 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

1 hour ago, meechai said:

 

i predict that if insurance becomes compulsory, there will be far more people who just won't bother with a Visa and save money all round

Good idea....

[Jumbo1968]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Why? Expats are not concerned by this move.

Or yes, a very few are, those using non O-A Visa. 

But what part of expats are they? 3% maybe?

Once if it’s introduced I am sure it affect all Expats no matter what type of Visa they have.

if there is such a small percentage of Expats as you say why introduce it in the first place ?