Groups want liquor sellers to be held accountable for alcohol-related road accidents

[Nyezhov]

Just now, meinphuket said:

Civil Society demands ? How can a shop tell if a person is legally over the limit? Can we prosecute car manufacturers and oil companies for pollution which can cause cancer and respiratory problems, medicine manufacturers for side effects and potential eventual death, pharmacists for dispensing medicine which can cause drowsiness and thus a danger to road users,  farmers for raising cows which contribute significantly to global warming, people who eat meat often causing stomach cancer and becoming a burden on the health system etc etc...Its the government's and the BIBs fault for not seriously educating the masses and instead trying to shift the blame to cornershops. 

It's a question of proof, not policy.

[richard_smith237]

Childish minds... Blaming everything except the obvious..... The irresponsible idiot who DUI, the slack policing, pathetic penalties and a complete lack of collective social morality on the issue.... 

 

Those in positions of decision making power are not stupid, they could handle these issues and effect a Cultural shift quite swiftly if only they genuinely cared enough to take the necessary effort beyond these frequent, moronic & ineffective sound-bites.... 

[sawadee1947]

Why not blame the farangs? 

They are responsible for alcohol, prostitution and all kinds of evil in this country. Even for this funny kind of governments because they never colonized this area??

[hotchilli]

Ridiculous, the only person who can be held accountable for the result of being drunk is the consumer...

un-less a store or bar etc over-serve a customer who should be politely asked to leave the premises!

[toofarnorth]

7 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Might this proposed agenda include local home brew sellers?

Just what I was thinking , how many fall by the wayside or in the wayside from drinking laokhao ?  Back to the headline . Drag the drunk driver out of the vehicle then ask him where he bought his booze , yup that will work .

[Bill Miller]

10 hours ago, Prairieboy said:

Typical - blame anyone or anything except yourself - don't accept responsibility for your actions.  Have the bar owners and liquor vendors do the policing!  A breathalyzer in every 7-Eleven!!

I did not read anything about 7/11s, etc.
The mention was of the "dram shop" laws which I believe, as is common in Western countries, refers to establishments that serve liquor to be consumed on the premises.
As a former sometime bartender in Connecticut I had to bear this in mind, and it is not easy!
Some people are quite good at demonstrating when they are over the limit, but are a real PITA when "cut off".
Some do not give evidence until they try to walk out,
Have to keep a running tally on all of your customers.
Then you have the ones who appear to be in control, but come into your establishment because they have already been limited elsewhere. This happened to some friends of mine who worked long and hard to establish a successful restaurant... all gone because some bunghole did not know when she had had enough, and maintained the appearance of sobriety long enough to get a couple more drinks into her already inebriated self. (Just happened to be a woman in this case which may have been a factor as we tend to expect this more from men for some reason.)

[Jonmarleesco]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

Section 29 of the 2008 Alcohol Control Act makes shops liable to a one-year jail term, a fine of Bt20,000 or both for selling alcohol to people who are already drunk.

And pray tell us just how the law decides that the people they sold to WERE already drunk? 

[Blue Water Sailor]

It's not uncommon in the States for a bartender or establishment to get sued for allowing someone that's obviously drunk to continue drinking and then going out killing someone on the road. They'll cut you off quick most places. A lot of places will get you home, for free, taxi or somebody giving you a ride. I've never seen anybody cut off in Thailand, ever. Have seen guys passed out at the bar, wake up and they serve him more. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, but I also think it's  irresponsible to allow someone that's to drunk too continue drinking, notice I said too drunk, this is where the bartender or manager makes the call, will this work in Thailand, I don't think so

[Old Croc]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Dram shop laws cover all purveyors of booze. 

 

A lawyers wet dream in the USA: Your client was a Nobel Prize winning brain surgeon and author, 38 years old, wife and 4 kids, income of 3 million a year, rendered quadraplegic by a dude with a BAC of .35 and a half drunk half rack of Coors in his car with the 7-11 receipt showing he bought the beers 1 hour earlier......

Insufficient evidence to prove he was drunk when he bought the Coors. 

He could have downed a bottle of whiskey after leaving the outlet. At the very least several witnesses would be needed testifying to his drunkenness at the shop .

[Old Croc]

58 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

I did not read anything about 7/11s, etc.
The mention was of the "dram shop" laws which I believe, as is common in Western countries, refers to establishments that serve liquor to be consumed on the premises.

Read the post up above yours, where the Russian poster mentioned a hypothetical case having a 7-11 receipt for some Coors.

[transam]

Next it will be suing a garage for selling petrol to a bloke who later caused an accident... Good grief......Stuff here has gone daft....

 

Why not just get the paid BiB out there on the streets.....Well why not, where are they...?   ????

[Top Chef]

Bars and restaurants. Only

[Nyezhov]

24 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Insufficient evidence to prove he was drunk when he bought the Coors. 

He could have downed a bottle of whiskey after leaving the outlet. At the very least several witnesses would be needed testifying to his drunkenness at the shop .

Thats a matter of proof, not a theory of liability.

 

14 minutes ago, Top Chef said:

Bars and restaurants. Only

In what sense?

[Elkski]

Seems like a bunch of drunks posting here.   This is a pretty common sense law and piece of the solution to the drunk driving problem.    Current stats for first few days of these deadly 7 said 40% of accidents are drunk driving related.    So it's about time this law is enforced.  Breath meters can be had for 3000 bahts.   Yes it's a nanny state type of thing but it's about time Thailand do something.   

[transam]

13 minutes ago, Elkski said:

Seems like a bunch of drunks posting here.   This is a pretty common sense law and piece of the solution to the drunk driving problem.    Current stats for first few days of these deadly 7 said 40% of accidents are drunk driving related.    So it's about time this law is enforced.  Breath meters can be had for 3000 bahts.   Yes it's a nanny state type of thing but it's about time Thailand do something.   

Has your country done what you think should be done....?

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.  

 

I think the Thais need to learn and repeat this:

 

If you're going to drive, don't drink.

If you're going to drink, don't drive. 

[sjaak327]

Utter <deleted>, the people selling alcohol should never be held accountable, it's the person driving the vehicle and that person alone, that should be held accountable. 

 

Maybe the Thai collectively can blame themselves for this ? For years drunk driving did not mean anything, and if caught a 200 baht "under the table" contribution took care of the problem. That was evidentely the wrong message, and now all of a sudden, instead of tighten the screws on the drivers, they want to include people that sell alcohol, even if that person has no way of knowing how or IF that person actually drives a car in the first place. Ludicrous. 

 

15 hours ago, webfact said:

Chuwit advised booze shops to buy a device to check the blood-alcohol level of their customers. 

This little tidbit quite clearly indicates what sort of people we are dealing with. I often wonder if people suggesting this actually are capable of using their brain. Such a measure will do absolutely NOTHING. Most people buy booze and get drunk AFTER they consumed the purchased goods, not before. And the very few that were already drunk, either send their wife, or make sure they stock up sufficiently when sober. 

[NoMeAmes]

Customers can just buy 4 big Thai whiskey bottles when they're sober.... And drive when they're half dead drunk.... 

 

According to this rule, every food seller should not be allowed to sell food or sugary drinks to overweight people. See the lack of logic here?

[Bill Miller]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Read the post up above yours, where the Russian poster mentioned a hypothetical case having a 7-11 receipt for some Coors.

It makes zero difference what a Russian poster may have said about a hypothetical situation.
The original post was about the "dram shop" laws.
I really wish that people commenting could stay on the topic of the posts they are commenting about, and not go haring off about speculative notions.

 

[bheard]

This may work for cars - not sure about motorcycles.
https://www.intoxalock.com/ignition-interlock-devices/drunk-driving-prevention/

Every vehicle coming out of the factory could be fitted with the device. Would save lives. Needs legislation, just like all current safety devices were introduced into vehicles.

Sent from my G8441 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NRGF]

Prohibition didn't work in the 20's USA why would it work now?

[Myran]

Might as well hold car dealerships accountable for road accidents.

[NRGF]

After sixty years of campaigning we still have drunk drivers in Europe, there's no way to stop it completely.

 

 

 

[NRGF]

14 hours ago, YetAnother said:

face it, they want to outlaw alcohol

Prohibition didn't work in the 20's USA why would it work now?

[dallen52]

Responsible selling of alcohol.

In Thailand !!!

 

Followed by, 

Compulsory license testing for everyone.

No brown envelopes.

No on the spot fines.

No helmet no bike.

Stopping for red lights.

(The traffic type).

End to police corruption.

 

Never going to happen.

 

 

[dallen52]

14 hours ago, Megasin1 said:

lol...the shop owners who sell the alcohol to the thais that have driven to their store drunk in order to get too drunk to drive safely can then sue the previous bar, shop owner or refrigerator that supplied the beer to the irate drunk Thai driver that shoots the shop owner for refusing to sell him more beer.....I really like that they have drunk driving...that's ok...but only driving too drunk to drive safely is not ok...where exactly is that line ?

It's normally about the point where the person is too drunk to walk home.

 

So they decide to drive instead.

[Ctkong]

17 hours ago, smedly said:

totally agree and also the police for not doing their jobs to make a reasonable effort (365 days a year) in detecting those that insist on driving while drunk, ultimately it is the chance of being caught and the severe penalties they will receive that are the best deterrent

Maybe the group should also propose that the traffic police in the accident area concerned be prosecuted for not doing their job while being paid a salary. 

[Ctkong]

Barking at the wrong tree... 

[Ctkong]

1 hour ago, NRGF said:

After sixty years of campaigning we still have drunk drivers in Europe, there's no way to stop it completely.

 

 

 

Unless the public become a Muslim. Alcohol is the social lubricant of choice enabled by the powerful alcohol lobby..

[richard_smith237]

Something is being missed here..

 

An establishment can be fined for issuing a drunk person with Alcohol... So this 'civil society' group want this law enforced more strictly and they think doing so will reduce DUI related accidents??? Huh???? 

 

So it's OK to serve drivers booze as long as they aren't falling over???? 

 

...if this is the point of the article this big 'elephant in the room' has been completely ignored...