Koh Samui cost of living.

[khunPer]

11 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Finally, one of the reasons that I have a good deal is that I make the effort to get along well with my landlord and their family; too many times I see people treating their landlords as strangers and/or intruders. This is, in my view, one of the differences between 'East' and 'West'; in the 'West', when you rent a house it is yours, period. In the 'East', landlords see it more as you paying them a bit to 'live with them on their land'; if you treat them well and with respect, your costs go down quite quickly.

Yes, this is so very true.

 

Renting on a long term deal – you might get a better price, and even further discount if you prepay the whole agreed term – and keep in good term with your landlord, considering you are a guest, you can get excellent deals on Samui.

And like @Samui Bodoh, I also talk from experience with two landlords, renting fine bungalows less than 100 meters walk from an excellent beach (No. 9 in Asia Top-10 at that time) for a very modest rate; actually both almost new constructions. Now I've been living in my own house for 8 years, and my former Thai landlords are very good friends; the one having fruit trees sometimes gives me fruit, and I was invited to the other landslord's wedding party.

 

And commenting @Tropicalevo's post about owning a house. Yes, if you plan to stay very long time, "investing" in a house – or condo – makes sense. Typically you'll pay in the range of 10% of a construction price for renting – sometimes without the land value, sometimes including the land value – so after about 15 years with all included, you live for free in your house; i.e. only pay for running maintenance, and electricity and water consumption. However, it might even be within a shorter period, as rental prices might have gone up during the same time. Furthermore your property "investment" might be able to be resold, recovering you initial investment, and sometimes even some gain.

????

[evadgib]

I pretty much agree with the last few posters & would not want to live anywhere else ????

[carmine]

Having just come back from traveling in Thailand i have made certain observations that really don't stack up very favorably on Samui's side.

 

Whilst Bangkok Airways continues to cripple the island with its ludicrous flight costs, this does indeed tend to take your mind away from all the other rip offs.  The ludicrous taxis fares, the ludicrous ferry costs to KPG, eight times the costs being charged elsewhere for sea crossings of a similar distance, to name but two.

 

And all this on an island that doesn't even bother to clear up its garbage and allows the pitiful state of its roads.

 

Left me wondering why anyone bothers to come here at all.  I'm sure my comments will meet with resentment for some but i would suggest it better to wake up and smell the coffee because the island simply cannot keep charging five star prices for a one star product.

[evadgib]

37 minutes ago, carmine said:

Having just come back from traveling in Thailand i have made certain observations that really don't stack up very favorably on Samui's side.

 

Whilst Bangkok Airways continues to cripple the island with its ludicrous flight costs, this does indeed tend to take your mind away from all the other rip offs.  The ludicrous taxis fares, the ludicrous ferry costs to KPG, eight times the costs being charged elsewhere for sea crossings of a similar distance, to name but two.

 

And all this on an island that doesn't even bother to clear up its garbage and allows the pitiful state of its roads.

 

Left me wondering why anyone bothers to come here at all.  I'm sure my comments will meet with resentment for some but i would suggest it better to wake up and smell the coffee because the island simply cannot keep charging five star prices for a one star product.

I cannot fault any of that but get round it by never going anywhere (unless I have to) & therefore it all seems normal lol.

To be serious I usually steer clear of Samui threads & I suspect your comments will shortly attract the reason why...

Edited January 18, 2019 by evadgib

[huberthammer]

16 minutes ago, carmine said:

Left me wondering why anyone bothers to come here at all.  I'm sure my comments will meet with resentment for some but i would suggest it better to wake up and smell the coffee because the island simply cannot keep charging five star prices for a one star product.

***Disclaimer - this is an honest question with no intention of aggravating you ***

 

So what keeps you here vs. moving to another place in Thailand?  I can see where you are coming from (I don't agree with the one star assessment) but for me the negatives are a small price to pay for the positives of this island. Despite having lived in many different places and travelled a lot I have yet to come across a place where all is more or less perfect so I tend to judge places in a balanced view.

 

[carmine]

8 minutes ago, huberthammer said:

***Disclaimer - this is an honest question with no intention of aggravating you ***

 

So what keeps you here vs. moving to another place in Thailand?  I can see where you are coming from (I don't agree with the one star assessment) but for me the negatives are a small price to pay for the positives of this island. Despite having lived in many different places and travelled a lot I have yet to come across a place where all is more or less perfect so I tend to judge places in a balanced view.

 

Theres nothing wrong with your question.

 

I'm here because i'm financially committed.  I'm not in a position to just pick up and walk away.

 

My comments were not made out of any angst with the island, but more of a genuine concern because i'm afraid to say i think that tourists have finally caught on to the ridiculous cost difference of coming here as opposed to other parts of Thailand.  This would go a long way to explaining why, even though tourism as a whole is well down, Samui in particular is taking a battering.  There needs to be a rethink because with these current exchange rates tourists are not buying the Samui model.  the government lifting a $20 visa cost ain't doing nothing when taxis are charging 300 baht to get to Seatran from the Fishermans Village!!!  They originally wanted 500 baht!!!

Edited January 18, 2019 by carmine

[carmine]

14 hours ago, evadgib said:

I pretty much agree with the last few posters & would not want to live anywhere else ????

I completely accept that.  My comments are purely based of the welfare of the tourist industry and those reliant on it here.

[RickG16]

4 hours ago, carmine said:

eight times the costs being charged elsewhere for sea crossings of a similar distance

Which sea crossings of a similar distance?

[madmen]

Having just come back from traveling in Thailand i have made certain observations that really don't stack up very favorably on Samui's side.
 
Whilst Bangkok Airways continues to cripple the island with its ludicrous flight costs, this does indeed tend to take your mind away from all the other rip offs.  The ludicrous taxis fares, the ludicrous ferry costs to KPG, eight times the costs being charged elsewhere for sea crossings of a similar distance, to name but two.
 
And all this on an island that doesn't even bother to clear up its garbage and allows the pitiful state of its roads.
 
Left me wondering why anyone bothers to come here at all.  I'm sure my comments will meet with resentment for some but i would suggest it better to wake up and smell the coffee because the island simply cannot keep charging five star prices for a one star product.

Good post. A search BKK to Samui shows airfare to Samui 8800 baht... 1 way!

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, carmine said:

Left me wondering why anyone bothers to come here at all.

Because high Bangkok Air fares makes Samui and her sisters little different from the other Thai over-packed budget-fare tourist destinations...

 

It's individual what you like, and where you ❤️ to stay, some likes other places more than Samui and her sisters, and we are some that don't wish to move off the islands.

 

Looking at statistics more-and-more people flocks here in spite of the "Bandit Air" fares, and all the other negative comments; so in way fine that those, who don't like Samui and her sisters, move out, and let us that (still) like the place keep it. There's probably also a sensible reason – i.e. financial investment sensible – that high-end resort companies continue to build more-and-more hotels on the Samui island, so some seem to come, and don't care that much about air fares, or don't mind them at all...????

 

People have different taste, and different preferences...????

 

[carmine]

19 hours ago, RickG16 said:

Which sea crossings of a similar distance?

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by carmine

[carmine]

16 hours ago, khunPer said:

Because high Bangkok Air fares makes Samui and her sisters little different from the other Thai over-packed budget-fare tourist destinations...

 

It's individual what you like, and where you ❤️ to stay, some likes other places more than Samui and her sisters, and we are some that don't wish to move off the islands.

 

Looking at statistics more-and-more people flocks here in spite of the "Bandit Air" fares, and all the other negative comments; so in way fine that those, who don't like Samui and her sisters, move out, and let us that (still) like the place keep it. There's probably also a sensible reason – i.e. financial investment sensible – that high-end resort companies continue to build more-and-more hotels on the Samui island, so some seem to come, and don't care that much about air fares, or don't mind them at all...????

 

People have different taste, and different preferences...????

 

More and more people flock here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Take a look outside, the place is dead and has been for over a year.  Half the expats living here a year ago have gone!

 

Why do you come out and post such nonsense?  You are blatantly posting misinformation.  there are no statistics showing more and more people are flocking here because that is blatantly not true.  Stop making things up.

Edited January 19, 2019 by carmine

[petermik]

I visited Bophut december 2017 for the first time,excellent hotel (Prana Resort) beach attached to it was ok until "debris" turned up one morning after overnight rain...bloody mess afterwards.....being high season I expected seeing more tourists,the place was virtually dead....the ring road round the island is a race track for the local kids,as for Chaweng the beach was nice the rest of it left a lot to be desired....been there done that but won,t be going back...

Ao Nang in Krabi now that,s a much better place

[RickG16]

12 minutes ago, petermik said:

I visited Bophut december 2017 for the first time,excellent hotel (Prana Resort) beach attached to it was ok until "debris" turned up one morning after overnight rain...bloody mess afterwards.....being high season I expected seeing more tourists,the place was virtually dead....the ring road round the island is a race track for the local kids,as for Chaweng the beach was nice the rest of it left a lot to be desired....been there done that but won,t be going back...

Ao Nang in Krabi now that,s a much better place

There is a lot more to explore mate! 

[alfieconn]

2 hours ago, RickG16 said:

There is a lot more to explore mate! 

How long have you lived there Rick ?

 

[RickG16]

9 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

How long have you lived there Rick ?

 

I don't live there, but I go there pretty regularly. 

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, carmine said:

More and more people flock here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Take a look outside, the place is dead and has been for over a year.  Half the expats living here a year ago have gone!

 

Why do you come out and post such nonsense?  You are blatantly posting misinformation.  there are no statistics showing more and more people are flocking here because that is blatantly not true.  Stop making things up.

Facts are more interesting than views, however views also say something about the situation, depending where you look. You might find this tread of interest:

 

And these seem to be the latest stats – up 6.8% year-to-year – we haven't got the 2018 numbers yet...

 

Quote

The island received more than 2.5 million foreign visitors last year [2017], up from 2.34 million a year earlier. 

I'm unfortunately not allowed to link to the newspaper source due to forum rules, but it's dated 6th July 2018, then you can find it via Google...????

[carmine]

46 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Facts are more interesting than views, however views also say something about the situation, depending where you look. You might find this tread of interest:

 

And these seem to be the latest stats – up 6.8% year-to-year – we haven't got the 2018 numbers yet...

 

I'm unfortunately not allowed to link to the newspaper source due to forum rules, but it's dated 6th July 2018, then you can find it via Google...????

 

I have but one question;  if tourists are flocking here where exactly are they?

[RickG16]

15 minutes ago, carmine said:

 

I have but one question;  if tourists are flocking here where exactly are they?

Someone previously made the point that the new type of tourists are families or couples happy to rent villas and stay in the higher end resorts. Not the types to frequent bars. So if you are judging everything by how full Chaweng is the evening, that could be misleading

[carmine]

40 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Someone previously made the point that the new type of tourists are families or couples happy to rent villas and stay in the higher end resorts. Not the types to frequent bars. So if you are judging everything by how full Chaweng is the evening, that could be misleading

No i'm not judging this on any one particular place.  What i can say is that the past twelve months is the quietist i have seen Samui in sixteen years and everybody i know on the island is in complete agreement.

 

You get the same message from Seatran, Lomprayah, visa run companies, hotel reception staff, tour offices, even visits to the immigration office are a doddle.  This is also reflective in the amount of expats that have packed up and left.  

 

I don't want to pick an argument with anyone regards this but i simply cannot accept someone coming on here suggesting that its buzzing because it isn't.  Far far from it.

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, carmine said:

 

I have but one question;  if tourists are flocking here where exactly are they?

Tourists have changed from the past, try to read some of the posts in the thread I mentioned, there are some answers.

 

Europeans, or Western tourists in general, seem to be a bit down – which might include expats – whilst other countries are up. More families arrives; and high end resorts, inclusive luxury villas, seem to be better booked than affordable accommodation. Details can be found in the mentioned thread.

 

However, we shall look forward to the statistics for 2018 that might unveil if there were less, same or little more foreign tourists coming that year.

[Tropicalevo]

22 hours ago, carmine said:

More and more people flock here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Take a look outside, the place is dead and has been for over a year.  Half the expats living here a year ago have gone!

 

Why do you come out and post such nonsense?  You are blatantly posting misinformation.  there are no statistics showing more and more people are flocking here because that is blatantly not true.  Stop making things up.

That was a bit rude Carmine. Not like you at all.

 

Statistics tell me that KhunPer is correct. The evidence is in my work diary.

 

At this time of year, I regularly carry out more than 100 check outs or check ins per month. The numbers just keep on growing every year. Certainly the average stay per guest is much shorter. 3 - 4 nights instead of a week to two weeks. Surely this indicates more people coming, not less. The exception this month is Russians. A major increase on previous years with many staying for one to three months.

 

As others have also posted in other threads, European tourists have almost disappeared. The GBP/EUR exchange rate has probably caused that shift. Especially for pensioner expats on fixed incomes!!! Now Chinese, Russian and Indian are the flavours of the month.

 

Regarding the disappearing expats - see my comment above re exchange rates/incomes. However, in my small social 'senior' group (most over 50), the numbers are static. The only friends leaving have been for medical reasons some years ago. Most in my social network rely on tourists for their business or are retired. None of us own bars or restaurants. Those are the two areas suffering with lack of business. Again, as has been said before, most Chinese, Indian, Russian tourists entertain at home.

[carmine]

36 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

That was a bit rude Carmine. Not like you at all.

 

Statistics tell me that KhunPer is correct. The evidence is in my work diary.

 

At this time of year, I regularly carry out more than 100 check outs or check ins per month. The numbers just keep on growing every year. Certainly the average stay per guest is much shorter. 3 - 4 nights instead of a week to two weeks. Surely this indicates more people coming, not less. The exception this month is Russians. A major increase on previous years with many staying for one to three months.

 

As others have also posted in other threads, European tourists have almost disappeared. The GBP/EUR exchange rate has probably caused that shift. Especially for pensioner expats on fixed incomes!!! Now Chinese, Russian and Indian are the flavours of the month.

 

Regarding the disappearing expats - see my comment above re exchange rates/incomes. However, in my small social 'senior' group (most over 50), the numbers are static. The only friends leaving have been for medical reasons some years ago. Most in my social network rely on tourists for their business or are retired. None of us own bars or restaurants. Those are the two areas suffering with lack of business. Again, as has been said before, most Chinese, Indian, Russian tourists entertain at home.

i didn't mean to be rude, possibly my frustration coming to the fore. Apologies to KhunPer.

 

regards this, i find myself rather lost because in all my years here i've never known anything like this last year and every expat and Thai i know or talk to says the same.

[carmine]

10 hours ago, khunPer said:

Tourists have changed from the past, try to read some of the posts in the thread I mentioned, there are some answers.

 

Europeans, or Western tourists in general, seem to be a bit down – which might include expats – whilst other countries are up. More families arrives; and high end resorts, inclusive luxury villas, seem to be better booked than affordable accommodation. Details can be found in the mentioned thread.

 

However, we shall look forward to the statistics for 2018 that might unveil if there were less, same or little more foreign tourists coming that year.

Who gives out the stats?  Pending on the source i am extremely dubious, whether they back up my views or not.  

[Tropicalevo]

17 hours ago, carmine said:

 

I have but one question;  if tourists are flocking here where exactly are they?

Staying in their villas at night and on tours during the day.

[Samui Bodoh]

2 minutes ago, carmine said:

i didn't mean to be rude, possibly my frustration coming to the fore. Apologies to KhunPer.

 

regards this, i find myself rather lost because in all my years here i've never known anything like this last year and every expat and Thai i know or talk to says the same.

First and foremost, respect to Mr C. I have already given up on certain areas of the Forum because I am sick of the trolls and the rudeness. Well done, Sir! And, thank you for the good manners.

 

I have read the various posts and looked with a keen eye during my daily business, and have to admit I am directly on the fence. The info/thoughts provided by Tropicalevo and Khun Per make a great deal of sense, but I also agree with Carmine that it is much quieter than in the past (much, much quieter) and it certainly looks like things have quietened considerably.

 

As a  follow-up to a comment I made in another thread; I assist my landlord a bit with language when people come looking to rent a house in the compound. In a normal year, I would expect to chat with 30 or so people during October to January; this year I have talked with exactly one couple. One. Only one.

 

I would love to say that we all need to have patience and wait until the official numbers come out, but I think we all take those numbers with a grain of salt.

 

Perhaps, sometime closer to Songkran/the end of high season, we might organize a discussion and/or poll of Samui residents and long-stayers to review how things went? i would place more faith in the observations of people who live here over the government's numbers. And, I am curious.

 

Cheers

[evadgib]

A couple of wry observations if I may...

- Christmas and New Year was probably the first in which the traffic jams remained manageable or at least didn't hinder/inconvenience us anywhere near as badly as they usually do.

- A fair number of east asian tourists were in Central today. They seemed to be in young family groups with grandparents too. There are still some ferangs around but very few that use the English language among themselves.

- There seems to be a lot less never-ridden-before motorcyclists wobbling all over the road these days but I do still encounter the odd one auditioning for liveleak via my dashcam ????

HTH

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, carmine said:

Who gives out the stats?  Pending on the source i am extremely dubious, whether they back up my views or not.  

Whatever stats we get, it's the best source we have of real numbers, including passengers through the airport, instead of limited views that might be different, depending of where we stand looking.

 

Thailand's tourism has in general increased yearly for the past decades, so why should Samui only be decreasing in number?

 

However looking at the official stats for the nation, the relative mix of tourists has changed a lot. In 1996 there were coming 7 million tourists to Thailand, in 2013 the number was almost four times bigger with 26 million, according to TCT (Tourism Council of Thailand). (Source link, plus one more I cannot quote due to forum rules.) In 2016 it had grown to 36.6 million, up 9% from 2015, and a double up in six years only. (Source link.) Half of the tourists in 2016 came from other Asian countries, but also Russians and East Europeans were in major numbers. Western tourists were less than one third of the total. (One third of 2016 tourists was 12 million, compared to that 1996 had 7 million tourists in total, dominated by Westerners.) The major number of tourists came from China and Europe, but "Europe" included Russia and Eastern Europe. (Source link, again one more I cannot quote.)

 

European tourists normally stay in Thailand for 14 days, whilst Chinese tourists only stay 6-10 days. (Source link.)

 

I've checked the number of my own Danish nationals, and they topped around 2012 with 170,000 visitors, and is down to 135,000 only in 2017. 124,000 arrived as tourists, and estimated 6,000 are expats (the remaining other are presumably mainly business); numbers are from The Royal Danish Embassy in Bangkok.

 

I have the references from my ongoing updates of Thai tourism that I do for a Danish language web-page.

 

Chinese and Indians are two expanding group of tourists Worldwide, and they behave different from the usual European-style, or Western, tourist we have been used to. That might confuse us, when looking around, together with the change for more families with children, and more up-end tourism (perhaps the so-called "quality tourists). Also the average shorter stay of Chinese guests, mentioned as 6-10 days, instead of the European's 14 days, might not increase the at any time number of guests, even the number of arrivals increased. A decade ago or less, we always heard that around 1 million tourists arrived on Samui in a year (might include transits for Phangan) – however little different from source-to-source with numbers from just under the million and up to 1.2 million – whilst the latest figure said 2.5 million in 2017.

 

You mentioned Immigration was not busy. Well I come there every 90 days for my address report, and they always seem busy. However, that is no proof of how busy they really are, they might be almost dead most of the the days that I'm not there. And Chinese and other Asian tourists might not extend their stay like Western tourists there should be little less of, and you said that the number of expats might be down.

 

Us that have an annual extension of stay, we have a little handwritten number with our extension stamp, and this is actually the number of granted extensions. My extension is due end of October, so I'm pretty close to year end. For a decade my number increased a bit every year with about a hundred or little more – in 2010 i had number 2018/53, and in 2013 I got number 3193/56 – until "59", i.e. 2016, where I topped with number 3559/59; i.e. 3,558 other had an annual extension before me at 21st October. The following year, 2017, I got number 3551/60, but I was granted extension already at October 6th, so my number might had slightly increased, if I had waited another two weeks, as presumably more than one expat comes a day; or perhaps numerous came early like me that year, because Samui Immigration opened for earlier renewal? One could conclude that it's presumably close to same level as the year before. But in 2018 I got number S2150/61 at 12th October; either the number of annual extensions are way down, or the "S" stands for Samui only, and the expats from Phangan got another letter in front of their number, for example a "P"; would it make sense that some 1,400 expats live on Phangan and other islands under Samui Immigration? If not, then the number of expats had decreased drastically in one year only!

 

It seems fair to conclude, that the number of expats has increased until 2016, and about leveled in 2017, whilst 2018 has unknown parameters – we don't know if the number is for a specific group like "retirement" only, or a number of total annual extensions in general, and thereby the actual status for extensions based on "business" and "marriage"; I have discussed it with Thaivisa's visa-expert Ubonjoe, but we couldn't find an answer.

 

Even the number of incoming tourists, and the number of expats, should decrease a bit, or just level out, it's still way up from a decade ago – and I remember folks back then, a decade or more ago, complaining about Samui became spoiled by too many tourists...

[utalkin2me]

On 1/16/2019 at 12:53 AM, Kadilo said:

Blimey what a drama queen

Call me whatever you want. I still could not live in isaan even if you paid me and paid my rent. And i know i am not alone. 

 

Much of isaan is the worst of everything, and i have spent enough time there to be wualified to speak about it. 

 

If you are i to wildlife for example, well forget that, many species are completely gone in many of the villages because they eat everything. I do not even think it is bad just stating the reality. 

 

There is a bull horn announcement at 4:30 to 5 am every morning. The funny part is, everyone gets up and sweeps their porch, and then they sit around all day (so why on earth did you need to get up so early?!). 

 

I could go on forever but i know there are people who love it so i will stop out of respect for them ????

[carmine]

10 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

Call me whatever you want. I still could not live in isaan even if you paid me and paid my rent. And i know i am not alone. 

 

Much of isaan is the worst of everything, and i have spent enough time there to be wualified to speak about it. 

 

If you are i to wildlife for example, well forget that, many species are completely gone in many of the villages because they eat everything. I do not even think it is bad just stating the reality. 

 

There is a bull horn announcement at 4:30 to 5 am every morning. The funny part is, everyone gets up and sweeps their porch, and then they sit around all day (so why on earth did you need to get up so early?!). 

 

I could go on forever but i know there are people who love it so i will stop out of respect for them ????

Yes, each to own but i am in full agreement with everything you say!!  Theres no way on earth i could live up there in the third world. Haven't we gone a little off topic?!!!