Report: Successful retirement extension using monthly income, no consul letter

[LawrenceN]

I promised I would report after extending my retirement visa (yes, we all know it's not really called that). I successfully extended my visa today at Chiang Mai.

 

I arrived about 9am. I was in for a re-entry permit a couple of weeks ago and was told by that friendly male supervisor that it was no longer necessary to queue before dawn. I got a queue number and waited maybe an hour.

 

My visa expires every Jan 30. I didn't bother with the letter from the US Consulate, because there were numerous announcements saying those letters are obsolete. I had a year's worth of Bangkok Bank statements (two six-month statements) showing foreign transfers into my account every month. When I went for the most recent statement, I asked for a letter confirming regular monthly deposits from my pension funds. The bank said they are only able to give me confirmation of the current balance. I don't keep 800,000 baht in my account, never have, so declined that letter, thinking it was pointless as I planned to use the monthly income method. That was a minor mistake; more below.

 

I had my TM7 filled out (photo attached), all necessary copies of passport pages, the bank statements with each monthly deposit highlighted in yellow, quarterly statements from one pension source, and an annual letter from the second source stating the monthly amount of my pension. When my number was called, the IO went through my paperwork. The only thing missing, he said, was the confirmation letter from the bank. I told him my bank didn't know anything about confirming monthly income, only current balance. He said that's what he needs, the rules require it. It's just bureaucratic pointlessness when using the monthly income method, but I wasn't gonna argue. I strolled over to Bangkok Bank at the Airport Mall and was back in half an hour with the letter. By then, it was about 11:30. I went straight back to the IO I had talked to before and gave him the letter. He added it to my papers. I got my photo taken and sat down to wait while the ladies pored over my papers some more. I got my passport back about 12:30.

 

So not much drama, all very cordial. No letter from our consulate was necessary or even mentioned. Statements from your bank are enough to verify income, as promised.

Edited January 15, 2019 by LawrenceN
grammar

[ubonjoe]

That is good news.

Just the letter from the bank confirming your account is valid and a statement or bank books are what I have been predicting is all they will want.

[Jingthing]

Assuming each transfer was at least 65k baht correct? Good info about the need for a bank letter in this instance. You had records going back 12 months. Many applicants this year won't because they are transitioning and imports were never required before for income method. Also of course this was not a combo application sans embassy letter.

 

Cheers.

 

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[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Also of course this was not a combo application sans embassy letter.

It is enough to prove the income side of the combination option is possible.

[wgdanson]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Assuming each transfer was at least 65k baht correct? Good info about the need for a bank letter in this instance. You had records going back 12 months. Many applicants this year won't because they are transitioning and imports were never required before for income method. Also of course this was not a combo application sans embassy letter.

 

Cheers.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Would it have made any difference if it WAS the combination method, eg 12 x 40k = 480k plus 320k in the bank?

[sfokevin]

You say you provided pension income documents... Do you think the Immigration officer wanted these?...

 

Was proof of pension docs required?

Edited January 15, 2019 by sfokevin

[Pib]

OP,

 Where you said.... 

Quote

I had a year's worth of Bangkok Bank statements (two six-month statements) showing foreign transfers into my account every month.

....did the immigration officer give any indication he/she was looking for bank coding or description on the banking statement that the transfers were international transfers?

 

SInce I also have Bangkok Bank accounts I know their passbook/statement's use coding/description of FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer)/International Transfer for foreign transfers which makes it abundantly clear the transfers are international. 

 

Just wondering did the immigration officer appear to look for such international coding/description or was just looking for any monthly transfers totaling up to least Bt65K/month.

[Pib]

And a report I'm looking forward to is where some one goes in with a year's worth of bank statement which show 12 Transferwise transfers say for 65K, but they are not coded as international transfers (just domestic transfers); however, the applicant also includes 12 Transferwise receipts which match up to the 12 transfers reflected on the bank statement.

[Jingthing]

Would it have made any difference if it WAS the combination method, eg 12 x 40k = 480k plus 320k in the bank?

Theoretically not but this is new territory in enforcement as far as income based applications without embassy letters.

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[LawrenceN]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Assuming each transfer was at least 65k baht correct?

Cheers.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Actually transfers every month from two sources, which, combined, exceeded 65,000. Same difference.

[LawrenceN]

12 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Would it have made any difference if it WAS the combination method, eg 12 x 40k = 480k plus 320k in the bank?

I don't know. I'm no expert, only reporting on my experience. However, given that all three methods are given equal weight here

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 ,

I assume it would make no difference. The overall point of my post is that Immigration seems to be taking a reasonable approach, living up to their public announcements.

[LawrenceN]

11 hours ago, sfokevin said:

You say you provided pension income documents... Do you think the Immigration officer wanted these?...

 

Was proof of pension docs required?

I don't know. He didn't say. We didn't discuss it. Maybe it was overkill. I had the statements available in a file, so brought them along. I didn't see any harm in showing them the sources, trying to cover all the bases. The rules at

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

mention evidence of a pension. Are the bank statements "evidence of a pension"? Maybe one IO would think so and another would not. My approach is to git'r'done, so I took what I consider to be real evidence.

 

I failed to mention in my post that I also provided a copy of my yellow book (aka tabien baan). It's not listed as a requirement, but I threw it in the mix to document my "bona fides." The IO did not comment on it, and I probably won't bother including it next year.

Edited January 16, 2019 by LawrenceN
Clarification

[LawrenceN]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

OP,

 Where you said.... 

....did the immigration officer give any indication he/she was looking for bank coding or description on the banking statement that the transfers were international transfers?

 

SInce I also have Bangkok Bank accounts I know their passbook/statement's use coding/description of FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer)/International Transfer for foreign transfers which makes it abundantly clear the transfers are international. 

 

Just wondering did the immigration officer appear to look for such international coding/description or was just looking for any monthly transfers totaling up to least Bt65K/month.

No indication that he looked, but I had highlighted the amounts and that FTT code on each transfer. He didn't have to look very hard. I tried to make it easy for him.

[sumrit]

29 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

I failed to mention in my post that I also provided a copy of my yellow book (aka tabien baan). It's not listed as a requirement, but I threw it in the mix to document my "bona fides." The IO did not comment on it, and I probably won't bother including it next year.

In Pattaya we use the yellow book as proof of residence, did you include any other proof in your application?

[LawrenceN]

10 minutes ago, sumrit said:

In Pattaya we use the yellow book as proof of residence, did you include any other proof in your application?

No. Everything I submitted has now been listed above.

[Moonlover]

Well, good news indeed. Thank you Lawrence for taking the time to keep us all informed.

 

So it would appear that the banks are not required to trawl through all the deposits in order to prove that they are from abroad after all. I always envisaged a problem with that anyway, given that some deposit methods, notably pensions and TransferWise do not flag up as international anyway.

 

So after numerous topics, hundreds of pages and thousands of postings it was, in words of William Shakespeare, all: 'Much ado About Nothing'. (No, I haven't read or seen it either!)

 

Thanks again Lawrence.

[rawhod]

14 hours ago, LawrenceN said:

the bank statements with each monthly deposit highlighted in yellow,

What sort of bank statements are you referring to?

 

I can download statements from my i-banking for 6 month periods, where these what you used?

Or did you specifically get statements from the bank, if so, what time periods did they cover?

Or did you just use photocopies of your bank book?

Thanks...

[jacko45k]

48 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

So it would appear that the banks are not required to trawl through all the deposits in order to prove that they are from abroad after all.

He supplied bank statements with 12 months of them duly highlighted. In his situation they were all clearly labelled as coming from abroad. A bank letter was also required. 

It seems exactly what is specified in the amendment to the order wrt verifying income was what was required. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by jacko45k

[holy cow cm]

Confirmation letter confirming account amount? or confirmation stating a standing of 65k + was deposited every month for 12 months?

[john ianson]

Just a question , My retirement visa expires June 2019 and I have had a retirement visa for 9 years with no problem . In the past I have transferred $ 10000 Aus approx every 3 months depending on the exchange rate  which always totals well over 800000 baht per annum . Can I renew my visa this year with a Bangkok Bank statement showing these International transfers arriving regularly along with a letter from the bank validating these transfers ? Thank you 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, john ianson said:

Just a question , My retirement visa expires June 2019 and I have had a retirement visa for 9 years with no problem . In the past I have transferred $ 10000 Aus approx every 3 months depending on the exchange rate  which always totals well over 800000 baht per annum . Can I renew my visa this year with a Bangkok Bank statement showing these International transfers arriving regularly along with a letter from the bank validating these transfers ? Thank you 

The new rules state you must show 12 monthly transfers into the country equal to or greater than 65k baht to apply for the extension of stay based upon retirement if you do not have proof of income from your embassy which you can no longer get from the Australian embassy.

You need statements to prove statements to prove the transfers and letter from the bank confirming you account is valid.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Confirmation letter confirming account amount? or confirmation stating a standing of 65k + was deposited every month for 12 months?

The OP only got a letter confirming his account is valid. His bank statements proved his income was being transferred in for 12 months.

[rawhod]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The OP only got a letter confirming his account is valid. His bank statements proved his income was being transferred in for 12 months.

Sorry but I am not clear what bank statements you are refering to.

I don't receive bank statements from Bangkok Bank through the post as I could do in the UK. Do these have to be requested from the bank?

I can download statements for 6 months banking on-line, but I would not call those bank statements.

Thanks

[Pib]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

He supplied bank statements with 12 months of them duly highlighted. In his situation they were all clearly labelled as coming from abroad. A bank letter was also required. 

It seems exactly what is specified in the amendment to the order wrt verifying income was what was required. 

Yeap.  The OP's income documentation exactly complied with the new police order....that is, a bank statement showing/confirming international transfers in the required amount right on the bank statement.

 

Now future reports where the bank statement showed deposits of X-amount but they were "not" coded/described as international transfers on the statement and the person must also use other documentation such as Transferwise receipts or whatever sender docs to show the transfers originated from outside Thailand will be the reports that give us real insight on what immigration will accept. 

 

I figure a lot will depend on what "internal guidance" has also been passed along regarding implementation of the income method....examples of what would and would not be acceptable.   By internal guidance I mean guidance from immigration superiors only for the eyes of immigration officers for use in evaluating extension requests; not for public release. 

 

I sincerely hope if there is such internal guidance that it takes in account "new, non-traditional" ways of transferring money which do not necessary result in the bank statement always reflecting a transfer as international like we see with some Transferwise transfers...in those cases supporting documentation such as Transferwise receipts would probably be required and hopefully accepted. 

 

BUT, we'll have to wait and see.  I expect even immigration knows 2019 will be a learning process for them also in terms of the various ways funds originating outside of Thailand  can be transferred to and coded/described on the Thai bank receiving in.  

 

 

 

 

[tgeezer]

In Pattaya we use the yellow book as proof of residence, did you include any other proof in your application?

For info. The Gov. Center in Bangkok have never required proof of address from me in twelve years. This year I met a chap waiting to be seen in J1 section, (change of address) and since he returned to L section, (non imm. extensions )without needing to queue I guess that he had been sent there ‘mid application’ when it was noticed that his address had changed. People might consider that there is a procedure for change of address in Bangkok. My address has never been officially recorded in this way. This year they did want a sketch map of where I lived but didn’t scrutinise it.


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[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, john ianson said:

Just a question , My retirement visa expires June 2019 and I have had a retirement visa for 9 years with no problem . In the past I have transferred $ 10000 Aus approx every 3 months depending on the exchange rate  which always totals well over 800000 baht per annum . Can I renew my visa this year with a Bangkok Bank statement showing these International transfers arriving regularly along with a letter from the bank validating these transfers ? Thank you 

Great question!

The amended police order (translated) says MONTHLY transfers.

So if that is to be taken literally, then no, quarterly transfers would not meet that order.

This is what I have been trying to get at.

How much flexibility in ENFORCEMENT is going to be shown, or not? 

How can we possibly know at this point?

There are scads of potential variations in the technical details of specific applications.

Then there are the variables of so many provincial offices and officers with different understandings or temperaments about showing flexibility in ENFORCEMENT.

If you're looking for assurances here on such questions, I think the answer is sorry, there is nobody here that can credibly give you that. 

[Tanoshi]

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The new rules state you must show 12 monthly transfers into the country equal to or greater than 65k baht to apply for the extension of stay based upon retirement if you do not have proof of income from your embassy which you can no longer get from the Australian embassy.

You need statements to prove statements to prove the transfers and letter from the bank confirming you account is valid.

2.18 of the new rules states 'average' monthly income of xxxxx

2.22 doesn't state 'average' monthly income of xxxxx, but that could just be an accidental omission.

 

For example, the combination method, remains a total of 800,000 baht per annum, they cannot specify a minimum monthly figure because the deposited funds could vary in each case.

I'm of the opinion that IO's will accept  x monthly deposits totalling either 480K per annum, or 780K per annum.

I believe they'll be flexible in their approach, relying on the bank letter, or totalling the annual deposits from bank statements and dividing by 12.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, rawhod said:

Sorry but I am not clear what bank statements you are refering to.

I don't receive bank statements from Bangkok Bank through the post as I could do in the UK. Do these have to be requested from the bank?

You can request a statement at the local branch. The can print one showing the past 6 months or you can request one for a year from Bangkok after paying a small fee for it. 

Immigration may also accept copies of your bank book stamped and signed by bank. They accept bank book and copies as proof for money in the bank option so I see no reason the should not accept them for the income proof.

Edited January 16, 2019 by ubonjoe
corrected typo

[Tanoshi]

43 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Immigration may also accept copies of your bank book stamped and signed by bank. They accept bank book and copies as proof for money in the bank option so I see no reason the should not accept them for the income proof.

Surely, you mean 'I see no reason why they should not accept them for the income proof'

[sfokevin]

43 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can request a statement at the local branch. The can print one showing the past 6 months or you can request one for a year from Bangkok after paying a small fee for it. 

Immigration may also accept copies of your bank book stamped and signed by bank. They accept bank book and copies as proof for money in the bank option so I see no reason the should not accept them for the income proof.

So at ones 6 month mark one could go to the bank and get an official first 6 month statement then at renewal time the second six month statement... Would this be doable?... I would worry immigration might balk at the first 6 month statement as it is technically 6 months old...