For those who use visa agents ... A heads up.

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Just delete it. Red is bad for our eyes. 

Not always.

[AhFarangJa]

If Big Joke really wanted to get rid of agents and their under the table practices, then why not simply put a sign on each office that states........."NO AGENTS". Unless they are representing an individual who for medical reasons cannot make the visit to the offices.

[Thingamabob]

I've never once used an agent for over 30 years. I've never felt the need, and I've never had any problems with renewals. Why does this debate go on and on and on...? Just put 800k in the bank and get on with your life.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Thingamabob said:

I've never once used an agent for over 30 years. I've never felt the need, and I've never had any problems with renewals. Why does this debate go on and on and on...? Just put 800k in the bank and get on with your life.

You seem to have difficulty grasping the fact that some people live on pensions and have little appreciable capital. Also, I believe, USA guys rarely keep much cash on deposit, and withdrawing from their investments (is it called IRA?) the 800k amount would cost them heavily on taxes. 

[Speedhump]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

There are lot of expats that don't meet the requirements. The very same expats that live throughout los single or with families and enhancing the joint. And if they are truely serious get rid of all income statements from embassies. This stuff belongs in a Monty Python scene or perhaps Yes Minister.

It's not for Immigration to ban income letters because three or four embassies throw their toys out of the pram. Anyway, a lot of expats move to small villages to get away from  'enhancement' by their peers....

[Enoon]

17 hours ago, darksidedog said:

The whole thing is quite entertaining, and while I understand that the idea was to stop agents putting through dodgy applications, and making money into the bargain, it does not seem to have achieved that. Talking to two agents I know today, they have already found a way around it, but guess what? They will now be charging more money than before, so the system seems set to continue as before, with the agents Big Joke was trying to put out of business, simply making more money, while causing major inconvenience to all the rest of us. Way to go there BJ, another epic fail!

And in answer to the OP, in Pattaya, you can apply 60 days prior to the last extensions expiry, so your mate can do his in time.

 

It was obvious from the outset that a mere variant (probably more expensive) of obtaining "a way around it" would be the main product of the initiative.

 

Because the system is up against a creature of its own making:

 

Top to bottom, the endemic and rampant culture of buying and selling......."a way around it".

 

They would need a Cromwell to change it.

 

They might get one.

 

But it would then cease to be a dream destination for expats.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Enoon

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

You're blaming the system for a lack of clarity from Thai Visa posters?

 

its 30 days at Jomtien but they are somewhat flexible. I've done several extensions slightly more than 30 days early without a problem. Last December I went in 42 days early. I was told they'd accept it if there was a good reason such as travel plans but otherwise it would need to be closer to 30 days. 

 

Never heard of any office allowing 60 days.

 

Since most people use  the same office each year, all you need to know is what your office accepts. The fact that it may be different at other offices shouldn't really matter to you.

Even in one particular office, different officers can tell you different things, at the end of the day, dealing with Thai IOs can be a hit or a miss.

[phkauf]

I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for those using these agents to skirt the rules and laws. If you don't qualify, tough find another place to live.

Because of your games, the honest rule abiding people have to suffer. Thanks a lot for ruining it for the rest of us and enjoy your time in some sh!thole country that will accept you.

[youreavinalaff]

15 minutes ago, Speedhump said:

It's not for Immigration to ban income letters because three or four embassies throw their toys out of the pram. Anyway, a lot of expats move to small villages to get away from  'enhancement' by their peers....

The embassies did not "throw their toys out of the pram". Thai immigration realised that the 4 embassies were not confirming the details but rather just stamping the application, so they said that they could not accept them.

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, phkauf said:

I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for those using these agents to skirt the rules and laws. If you don't qualify, tough find another place to live.

Because of your games, the honest rule abiding people have to suffer. Thanks a lot for ruining it for the rest of us and enjoy your time in some sh!thole country that will accept you.

No, because immigration set up an "agent-system" to facilitate skirting the law, and want to force More Foreigners to Pay Into that system, the rules are continually made more difficult for those who apply honestly.

 

Some Immigration offices view those who apply honestly and in-person as "The Problem" - and make life hell for those doing this (especially those supporting a Thai family) - much preferring the Agent-Applications which come with extra enhancements and skirt most of the rules the rest of us must follow.

 

You are blaming foreigners for a system over which they have No Control At All!!

[scottiejohn]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

No, because immigration set up an "agent-system"

Utter B/S!

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The embassies did not "throw their toys out of the pram". Thai immigration realised that the 4 embassies were not confirming the details but rather just stamping the application, so they said that they could not accept them.

Immigration could have read what the letters said All This Time - it was printed right on them exactly what they were.  In the case of the USA, it is a "sworn statement under penalty of perjury."  They did not recently "realize" anything.

 

Do all of the other embassies verify the information provided back to the income-source?  Or did getting rid of the letters from the USA, UK, and AU simply get rid of "enough" income letters to ensure much higher agent-money returns this year?

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, notamember said:

i am beginning to warm to you Jack

I already have warmed to him. ????

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Utter B/S!

Please describe how you think the agent-system works, then - why agent-applications are given priority, and many requirements vanish vs honest in-person applications. 

We can go round-and-round with the chicken-egg question, but the bottom line, is that any problem with the validity of applications could be best-solved by ending rampant corruption within the immigration-system - not creating More Hoops for the Honest to jump, which don't affect agent-applicants.

Edited February 5, 2019 by JackThompson

[JLCrab]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

I am sure nothing of that type is ever involved (or, at least, can be proven)

Horse manure. If someone wanted to prove it, they could prove it.

Edited February 5, 2019 by JLCrab

[bbi1]

"Some worrying news came this morning.  This is just a heads up so don't take it as gospel." - What's the "worrying news" you are talking about??? There's nothing worrying in the post at all. Those two dodgy scamming agents can't do their illegal stuff anymore and your buddy will get kicked out of the country for illegally doing dodgy things to stay here. Thailand doesn't need these type of law breaking foreigners who don't have the funds to stay here.

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The embassies did not "throw their toys out of the pram". Thai immigration realised that the 4 embassies were not confirming the details but rather just stamping the application, so they said that they could not accept them.

Where did you see that?? Nowhere!

From what I have read, the most plausible theory is that UK & US embassies saw a problem between this letter and their new laws about Personal Data protection. When asked, Thai Immigration confirmed that embassies still had to verify the income, as required many years ago. These 2 embassies decided they were not able to do so in respect of their laws, and stopped providing letters. Their own sad decision.

[giddyup]

34 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You seem to have difficulty grasping the fact that some people live on pensions and have little appreciable capital. Also, I believe, USA guys rarely keep much cash on deposit, and withdrawing from their investments (is it called IRA?) the 800k amount would cost them heavily on taxes. 

Then they don't qualify to be retirees in Thailand. Don't expect that the rules should cater to every case.

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The embassies did not "throw their toys out of the pram". Thai immigration realised that the 4 embassies were not confirming the details but rather just stamping the application, so they said that they could not accept them.

Thai immigration have "never" made any such statement. If you could somehow still get an income letter from the embassies, Thai immigration will still accept it. They are still accepting them today, long after the embassies stopped issuing them.

The only reason they stop accepting later this year is the letter need to be under 6 months old.

[scorecard]

17 hours ago, sumrit said:

I'll wait for an update on what your two agents can/can't do. 

 

I find it hard to believe they've already found a way around the system when the rules and regulations on how the three monthly finance checks on the money in the bank haven't even been released yet. They might be confidently quoting more money for the service now but let's wait and see how they get around the rules.......once they know what those rules are of course.

 

Well maybe they have found a way around the 'new rules', but the general seems to be determined to clean this up so don't totally discount that he might introduce further rules or processes to  stop the errant imm. officials or whatever is needed to stop any corruption. 

 

Let's not forget since he got promoted to a very high rank and came so strongly into the overall picture he has quickly sidelined / sacked many officials and cops. 

 

 

[Pattaya46]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

You are blaming foreigners for a system over which they have No Control At All!!

Wrong. Expats have full control on this system!

If no expats was trying to fraud the system,

there would be no work for agents and they would just disappear.

[Benmart]

Commit the crime and do the time. Being jailed and deported after being caught using an "under the table" visa procedure is a possibility. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Benmart

[buick]

19 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Utter B/S!

i have a friend who is an agent.  he refers to his contact at immigration as his 'boss'.  so i'm pretty sure the agent system was set up by immigration. 

[roger buttmore]

I've always used a visa agent to sort out my retirement extensions, and prior to retirement used agents for other visa services and extensions. I am lazy. I can't be bothered going over the hill to Jomtien and spending time at the immigration office when I can pay someone else to take the hassle away. They even do my 90-day checks because I can't be arsed to do them myself.

 

The fact the agent could also get financials overlooked wasn't because I didn't have the money, but because I'd prefer not to 'move' significant funds from a position of superior investment and safety back home.

 

Now it seems I will have to either move a lump sum, or ensure religiously that I internationally transfer B65k per month without fail. I have already started doing the latter.

 

Even with money in place I will still continue to use a visa agent in order to take away the hassle and the legwork.

 

Moral of the story:  If you can't afford an agent .. ????

[JimmyJ]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

Prostitution has long been illegal in Thailand, and attempts to legalise it have failed multiple times. I am sure you must be mistaken if you believe prostitution occurs here.

The classic ironic example:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPY6Pp4kmxQ

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by JimmyJ

[xylophone]

30 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Please describe how you think the agent-system works, then - why agent-applications are given priority, and many requirements vanish vs honest in-person applications. 

We can go round-and-round with the chicken-egg question, but the bottom line, is that any problem with the validity of applications could be best-solved by ending rampant corruption within the immigration-system - not creating More Hoops for the Honest to jump, which don't affect agent-applicants.

I have to agree with a lot of what you said as I have seen it happen here first hand on a few occasions, and the last time I was livid because I had been waiting so long in the queue........

 

What looked to be an Indian guy was chatting to another guy of the same persuasion, in conjunction with a member of the BIB and they were sorting paperwork between them. Without waiting to be seen, the cop and the associate walked straight up to one of the immigration officers and plonked the passport and paperwork on the desk, pushing in front of someone who was already there, uttered a few sharp words and retreated to a chair nearby.

 

Within 10 minutes everything was completed and they were handed back the passport and paperwork, and headed out of the door.

 

I have also sat in queues whilst agents have pushed in front and got immediate attention and just to make things a little clearer, I have also seen envelopes (no not brown but white) accompanying some of these passports/applications, and these have been surreptitiously slipped into a drawer, so skilfully that you would have thought the IO had been a magician in his previous life.

 

And as if to back this up, a former consul has suggested that the practice of agents and kickbacks will never go away because the amount of money collected via this route is huge and provides many "officials" with a bonus, not only locally but further up the chain.

[JackThompson]

29 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Wrong. Expats have full control on this system!

If no expats was trying to fraud the system,

there would be no work for agents and they would just disappear.

What you are leaving out is, at many immigration offices, in-person honest applications are not welcomed.  Some IOs even recommend specific agents (try getting a Non-O stamp in Jomtien). 

 

For those of you not targeted for extortion (yet), happy to hear it, and good luck in the future with whatever other "new rules" are invented to make honest-applications increasingly difficult.

[rott]

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I have to agree with a lot of what you said as I have seen it happen here first hand on a few occasions, and the last time I was livid because I had been waiting so long in the queue........

 

What looked to be an Indian guy was chatting to another guy of the same persuasion, in conjunction with a member of the BIB and they were sorting paperwork between them. Without waiting to be seen, the cop and the associate walked straight up to one of the immigration officers and plonked the passport and paperwork on the desk, pushing in front of someone who was already there, uttered a few sharp words and retreated to a chair nearby.

 

Within 10 minutes everything was completed and they were handed back the passport and paperwork, and headed out of the door.

 

I have also sat in queues whilst agents have pushed in front and got immediate attention and just to make things a little clearer, I have also seen envelopes (no not brown but white) accompanying some of these passports/applications, and these have been surreptitiously slipped into a drawer, so skilfully that you would have thought the IO had been a magician in his previous life.

 

And as if to back this up, a former consul has suggested that the practice of agents and kickbacks will never go away because the amount of money collected via this route is huge and provides many "officials" with a bonus, not only locally but further up the chain.

No No that cannot be true, Pattaya 46 says it is the fault of evil farangs who have corrupted agents and a few Immigration officials. And he seems to know all about it.

[gamini]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Have your read the long topic about the recent changes to the rules for the 800k baht in the bank option that go into effect on March 1st.

Its intention was to stop the agents from being able to get those extensions that don't truly meet the requirements.

You ought to have added that these people who knowingly use agents to circumvent the regulations are dishonest and are the cause of a lot of problems to genuine retirees.

Let's hope that these sort of people who can't comply with the law leave Thailand.

[JackThompson]

35 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Let's not forget since he got promoted to a very high rank and came so strongly into the overall picture he has quickly sidelined / sacked many officials and cops. 

Low level IOs doing "action on the side," are what I have seen, so-far.  If the big-name agents are rounded up and forced to testify in exchange for lighter sentences, and their IO-contacts are forced to testify on the amounts they had to pass up the chain, taking down those with higher-ranks, and so on up the chain - then I will be convinced. 

I am not suggesting this would be easy, regardless of an honest desire to accomplish the goal (I cannot read his mind).  It would take the threat of long jail sentences, and a team of investigators who are not connected to those "on the take," to make that happen - as has worked to take out similar systems elsewhere in the world.