The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[Jim7777]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

I know what the official police orders say and I completely agree with you.

 

However, the OP has published a different set of police orders that he obtained at Phetchabun Immigration that conflict the police orders that we have seen previously.

I hope you saw my very last reply I do apologize I just misunderstood what you meant.  

[nrasmussen]

How did the Danish Embassy deal with embassy income letters in the past. Did the have a sworn affidavit or did they ask for proof of income?

I'm sorry, but I have no idea. I have never used it.

[Spidey]

Just now, Jim7777 said:

I hope you saw my very last reply I do apologize I just misunderstood what you meant.  

No problem. It's a discussion forum. We all have our views, none of them should be taken too seriously. Sorry if I came across as confrontational.

[Jim7777]

55 minutes ago, Henryford said:

The problem is it can't be withdrawn or used for emergencies, unless you are leaving Thailand for good.

That’s yet one of several reasons why I would not want to be retired here without my monthly pension payments.  I thank God for my monthly pension payments of almost $5,000 USD a month.  

[Jim7777]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No problem. It's a discussion forum. We all have our views, none of them should be taken too seriously. Sorry if I came across as confrontational.

It’s fine although when people post topics about this kind of issue they should have the facts or don’t post anything at all.  I don’t mean you just a lot of other people who have something to say about this issue regarding the new monthly income verification requirements.  But it’s okay I know what you meant now I just misunderstood you before.  

[ToddinChonburi]

I just did my extension today, what a f......    mess. First was told 800,000 is no good must be in bank for Year. Well he we go, let the arguement begin.  Then after an immigration officer time out called to huddle and rethink there stupidity I was told good but not next year. Now she is pissed off and wants a google map to my home. After a little more exchange she hands me a blank piece of paper and says draw map. So I did. Then another officer ask what I did before I retired. I told her I should have been a Lawyer which brought some pretty good laughter from the staff . 4 girls were reading g through the book on the 800,000. I really don't think anyone really understood it.  one said at the end, go to police department in 90 days and show bank book. Ok I said.

  This was at immigration in Si Racha.

 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, ToddinChonburi said:

I just did my extension today, what a f......    mess. First was told 800,000 is no good must be in bank for Year. Well he we go, let the arguement begin.  Then after an immigration officer time out called to huddle and rethink there stupidity I was told good but not next year. Now she is pissed off and wants a google map to my home. After a little more exchange she hands me a blank piece of paper and says draw map. So I did. Then another officer ask what I did before I retired. I told her I should have been a Lawyer which brought some pretty good laughter from the staff . 4 girls were reading g through the book on the 800,000. I really don't think anyone really understood it.  one said at the end, go to police department in 90 days and show bank book. Ok I said.

  This was at immigration in Si Racha.

 

What kind of extension? 

[billsmart]

19 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Didn't you write, " NO! I just looked at my old passport, and the visa I was issued in Singapore at the THAI embassy in 2004 and was an O. It doesn't say what kind of O."

 

So not really an O-A but an O?

 

[billsmart]

I found a later, O-A, issued by the Thai Embassy in New York in 2008. That is my current visa.

[polkop11]

My pension income is largely sufficient and from France. My passport is from The Netherlands. The income letter from the French Embassy is not accepted by the Thai Immigration. The Dutch Embassy refuses to issue an letter for income not from The Netherlands. Catch 22 ?

[billsmart]

8 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

To begin with you keep speaking of visas. Immigrations doesn't issue retirement or marriage visas. They do give permissions to stay or extensions of permissions.

 

And you keep calling everything " official." 

 

I agree with UJ that your summation and conclusions are nonsense and this thread is a waste of time just meant to further confuse the issue.

Suradit69, I can assure you, nothing I have posted on this thread or will ever post here will be "meant to further confuse the issue." 

On this particular part of the topic, I was using the wrong terms, although those terms are the ones commonly used. I should not have said "Retirement visas" or "Marriage visa" but should have said "one-year extensions to existing O-A visas using the rules for either retirement or marriage."

[HHTel]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

I know what the official police orders say and I completely agree with you.

 

However, the OP has published a different set of police orders that he obtained at Phetchabun Immigration that conflict the police orders that we have seen previously.

These are not police orders just interpretations from one office.  The official police order is the one to read.

[billsmart]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

I read this and the police order that he attached. What did you read?

What I was told and given documentation about last Friday, and what I was told AGAIN TODAY (Tuesday) when I revisited my local IO is beginning in 2019 the official rules are that only letters from embassies will be accepted as proof of monthly income. HOWEVER, bank letters will be accepted through 2019 as a "transition" accommodation, but will not be accepted beginning in 2020.

 

I'm not making this up...

[WeekendRaider]

Thailand has no jurisdiction over US banks, insurance companies or government agencies, so except thru a reciprocal agreement under FATCA, there is no way for an American in Thailand, or the Thai government to compel any disclosure that would verify an American's "pension income".  so the only exception is things like US Social Security deposited directly with Bangkok bank, and similar such arrangements because of course BBL is a Thai bank!  and that's the bottom line.

printed bank statements are not proof or verifiable without having jurisdiction over the reporter.
 

bank secrecy for example is why we took the extraordinary and quite-un American [to older generations at least it was] in UNSC resolution 2371 where we named 9 inner circle DPRK money launderers, by passport and drivers license numbers because breaking bank secrecy is almost impossible to be broken from the outside.  on purpose.

 

unless there are clear guidelines we can comply with, the "income method" for Americans to keep a retirement visa is always going to be quite problematic.  aside from the Social Security direct deposit..... I don't see how that can be done.  the US government is the only agency that could do this effectively and fairly and consistently.  they are refusing.  but know this.... the IRS certainly knows who has pension income and who doesn't, 100% for sure!!!!!  

   
 

Edited February 12, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[ChouDoufu]

8 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

To begin with you keep speaking of visas. Immigrations doesn't issue retirement or marriage visas. They do give permissions to stay or extensions of permissions.

 

And you keep calling everything " official." 

 

I agree with UJ that your summation and conclusions are nonsense and this thread is a waste of time just meant to further confuse the issue.

not to make things more confusing, but....

i arrived in thailand without a visa, only the 30-day visa waiver.

extended the waiver by 30 days at CW.

applied for an O-visa at CW with TM87 application for visa.

and then applied for the 1-year extension of stay based on retirement.

[Spidey]

33 minutes ago, billsmart said:

What I was told and given documentation about last Friday, and what I was told AGAIN TODAY (Tuesday) when I revisited my local IO is beginning in 2019 the official rules are that only letters from embassies will be accepted as proof of monthly income. HOWEVER, bank letters will be accepted through 2019 as a "transition" accommodation, but will not be accepted beginning in 2020.

 

I'm not making this up...

Bill, I don't doubt you, but I seriously doubt the veracity of Phetchabun Immigration.

[HHTel]

40 minutes ago, billsmart said:

What I was told and given documentation about last Friday, and what I was told AGAIN TODAY (Tuesday) when I revisited my local IO is beginning in 2019 the official rules are that only letters from embassies will be accepted as proof of monthly income. HOWEVER, bank letters will be accepted through 2019 as a "transition" accommodation, but will not be accepted beginning in 2020.

 

I'm not making this up...

I'm sure you're not making it up.  However the official police order states it quite clearly.  Obviously, your local IO has failed to get their head around it yet.  I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash.

[billsmart]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Bill, I don't doubt you, but I seriously doubt the veracity of Phetchabun Immigration.

Spidey, I don't doubt their veracity or intent, but I can accept that they may be interpreting the rules incorrectly. I have a very good relationship with them, and right now they have a young, Australian student who is working there, so communication is not a problem. I am certain they believe what they are telling me.

So, I am preparing for the "worst." I am preparing to show up there next Dec ready to give them a bank letter verifying my THB65K+ a month transfer deposits to qualify for a stay extension using the Retirement rules, and I am also making sure I will have at least THB400K on deposit by October to qualify for an stay extension using the Thai Wife rules. (Did I phrase that correctly enough for you? ???? )

Edited February 12, 2019 by billsmart

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, billsmart said:

So, I am preparing for the "worst." I am preparing to show up there next Dec ready to give them a bank letter verifying my THB65K+ a month transfer deposits, and I am also making sure I will have at least THB400K on deposit by October to qualify for an stay extension using the Thai Wife rules. (Did I phrase that correctly enough for you? ???? )

I'm doing exactly the same only I'm putting 800k in a Thai bank account. Not shure how they'd react if you turn up asking for a retirement extension then turn round and say that you want a marriage extension.

[billsmart]

I switched methods before. I first used the Marriage rules and then, about three or four years ago, switched to the Retirement rules just to avoid all the paperwork. I posted photos of the extensions for these earlier in this thread.

Also, I asked them that today, and they said that was not a problem.

So....I'll come prepared for both and keep my fingers crossed.

[billsmart]

5 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I switched methods before. I first used the Marriage rules and then, about three or four years ago, switched to the Retirement rules just to avoid all the paperwork. I posted photos of the extensions for these earlier in this thread.

Also, I asked them that today, and they said that was not a problem.

So....I'll come prepared for both and keep my fingers crossed.

Spidey, et al...

 

I just saw this. This might be the source of the "misinformation," if that what it is...

 

 

[Mavideol]

4 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I switched methods before. I first used the Marriage rules and then, about three or four years ago, switched to the Retirement rules just to avoid all the paperwork. I posted photos of the extensions for these earlier in this thread.

Also, I asked them that today, and they said that was not a problem.

So....I'll come prepared for both and keep my fingers crossed.

good luck and keep us posted

[Ej2562]

Bill Smart,

 

Thank you very much.  Truly, I appreciate what you did.

 

[GreasyFingers]

On 2/10/2019 at 11:18 AM, billsmart said:

I don't like it either and pushed back on it, but, here it is...

Retirement Visa Rules 2020.pdf 640.14 kB · 27 downloads

Bill, the wife was given the same document today at Phetchabun Immigration. If UbonJoe disagrees who can we believe. They also gave her a copy of the letter fro The Boss but that is in Thai so cannot read it.

The confusion continues.

[GreasyFingers]

57 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I switched methods before. I first used the Marriage rules and then, about three or four years ago, switched to the Retirement rules just to avoid all the paperwork. I posted photos of the extensions for these earlier in this thread.

Also, I asked them that today, and they said that was not a problem.

So....I'll come prepared for both and keep my fingers crossed.

The wife had a long discussion (in Thai) with the IO boss and she seemed to confirm what you have said. Next time apply for an extension on MARRIAGE, the initial paper work will be bigger but after that no problems.

[GreasyFingers]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

Suradit69, I can assure you, nothing I have posted on this thread or will ever post here will be "meant to further confuse the issue." 

On this particular part of the topic, I was using the wrong terms, although those terms are the ones commonly used. I should not have said "Retirement visas" or "Marriage visa" but should have said "one-year extensions to existing O-A visas using the rules for either retirement or marriage."

The Phetchabun IO use the term visa for an extension.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

So, I am preparing for the "worst." I am preparing to show up there next Dec ready to give them a bank letter verifying my THB65K+ a month transfer deposits to qualify for a stay extension using the Retirement rules, and I am also making sure I will have at least THB400K on deposit by October to qualify for an stay extension using the Thai Wife rules.

I thought only an Embassy letter would suffice?

[billsmart]

10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I thought only an Embassy letter would suffice?

Jacko45k, That is the crux of the disagreements/confusion here. 

I was told that for an extension based on retirement beginning in 2019, only an embassy letter would suffice for proving monthly income (pension). BUT, I was also told that AS AN EXCEPTION FOR 2019 ONLY, to help with the transition to these new rules, that IO will accept a letter from your bank showing monthly, international transfers. BUT, that exemption will cease in 2020, and after that, ONLY a letter from your embassy will suffice for proof of monthly income (pension).

Many (most) on this forum dispute that and believe I was given wrong information and this method of proof of monthly income will continue to be accepted 2020 and beyond. That is definitely not what I was told, and others were told that too.

The issue is still "up in the air" as far as many are concerned. As for me, I'll just have to go on what my local IO tells me. After all, it is they that I will have to deal with for my extensions.

Edited February 12, 2019 by billsmart

[billsmart]

I have a general question for anyone who cares to respond.

 

Is there anyone out there with an O-A visa who, prior to 2019, used a letter from your bank and your bank book to satisfy the monthly income (pension) requirement for a stay extension based on RETIREMENT?

 

Is there anyone out there with an O-A visa who, prior to 2019, used a letter from your bank and your bank book to satisfy the monthly income requirement for a stay extension based on MARRIAGE or GUARDIAN?

 

Thanks...Bill!
 

[Mansell]

There were two letters addressing the new rules and the money in the bank issue in the English version of the Bangkok Post today. Maybe we should all be writing letters as they are probably also in the Thai version.