The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Well, the total amount of money in his brokerage account clearly is over 800,000 baht, and $40,000 far exceeds 65,000 baht.  He didn't have an income verification letter because he didn't know the consulate had ceased providing the letters.  

 

 

Regardless, a person still has to follow the established rules for qualifying for a retirement extension with Thai Immigration.

 

A person could have $100 million in a U.S. brokerage account, and that's not going to satisfy the plain requirement about having at least 800K baht in a THAI bank account.

 

Likewise, a person could have $100,000 in monthly dividend income coming from a U.S. brokerage account. But unless that's documented by an Embassy income letter or being transferred monthly into a Thai bank account, it's not going to meet the current rules.

 

Whether we like the current rules or think they're fair are separate questions. But the rules are  the rules. And having money in a foreign brokerage account doesn't satisfy them, nor does having income from a foreign brokerage account that isn't documented by an Embassy income letter or deposited monthly into a Thai bank account.

 

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, thequietman said:

No. If you are 50 and you qualify for the retirement visa, then according to the OP, after 2020 only pension is accepted.

One of us better read it again. I got 800,000 deposited or pension income verified by Embassy letter.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

An updated Kor Ror 2 should suffice for showing the marriage is still legally valid. 

 

Only a your wife's accompanying you to do the extension, plus home-visit, would provide assurance you still live together. 

 

If they want a new google-map plus pic of the front of the house so they can find it easily to check up on us - fine. 

 

Anything to do with the landlord, additional pics (could be paid for with a fake-wife), witnesses (can be bought), and the rest if 100% useless / unnecessary and spiteful.

 

And it should not matter a bit whether our incomes are from a "government pension" or some other source - assuming they need to know at all.  Either we are providing for our wives/families, or they would not be showing up at immigration to help further our stay.

[thequietman]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

One of us better read it again. I got 800,000 deposited or pension income verified by Embassy letter.

Yes, U R correct. Seems I got it arse about face. Apologies to all that I argued with.

 

Thank christ I am not old enough for a pension, this is all a nightmare for you retirees. Best of luck navigating through it.

[KhunBENQ]

4 hours ago, glegolo said:

All these threads....... Plse stop some time....... rather sooner that later.....

We are still waiting for the definetive law and police-order and how you can predict year 2020 is a nice tricky thing I guess..

I am in sleep mode until the dust has settled.

Just too much confusion and chaos by this poorly thought new order.

Extension due in October.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

41 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The January 18th memo revised clause 2.22 of police order 327/2557 basis for extension of stay for the money in the bank option only.

The December 21st order revised clause 2.18 and 2.22 of police order 138/2557 documents for extension of stay for proof of income.

You can download all of them in this pinned topic.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

 

Yes, I had my wife re-read the 4th page of the OP's full attachment, the TH version of section 2.22 relating to retirement extensions that's clearly attached to the national police chief letter dated Jan 18, that's pages 2 and 3 of his package.

 

The undated 4th page version of 2.22 in TH does reference both the evidence of 65K in monthly income and the 800K Thai bank deposit methods of qualifying. But that particular page, the wife says, contains no other details about what kind of evidence is acceptable for proving the 65K. No mention there of Embassy affidavits or Thai bank deposits.

 

So presumably, the details of that as relates to the monthly income documentation are stated elsewhere, presumably in the December documents you cite above.

 

So then I guess the question becomes, who wrote the TH-EN mirror detailed version of requirements that are pages 5 and 6 of the OP's full package...  And I'll agree, those last two pages don't look like they're the work of BKK Immigration.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, I had my wife re-read the 4th page of the OP's full attachment, the TH version of section 2.22 relating to retirement extensions that's clearly attached to the national police chief letter dated Jan 18, that's pages 2 and 3 of his package.

 

The undated 4th page version of 2.22 in TH does reference both the evidence of 65K in monthly income and the 800K Thai bank deposit methods of qualifying. But that particular page, the wife says, contains no other details about what kind of evidence is acceptable for proving the 65K. No mention there of Embassy affidavits or Thai bank deposits.

 

So presumably, the details of that as relates to the monthly income documentation are stated elsewhere, presumably in the December documents you cite above.

 

They have made it difficult for IOs, haven't they? How hard would it have been to issue clear, complete updated guidelines (including unchanged parts) with the changes highlighted -- once only, inclusive of all changes?

 

This having to refer to one set of documents for some things and another set for other things, guarantees problems and confusion  with differing  interpretations. There would be some anyhow but this is just asking for trouble.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So presumably, the details of that as relates to the monthly income documentation are stated elsewhere, presumably in the December documents you cite above.

Yes and it amended a different police order that is only for the documents required for an extension.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes and it amended a different police order that is only for the documents required for an extension.

 

The other thing the wife says is reflected in the page 4 (TH version of 2.22 attached to the Jan. 18 national police chief memo) of the OP's package is the updated language about seasoning of the 800K bank deposit method for retirement extensions, being needing to have the money on deposit two months before applying and then 3 months after applying. And not being allowed to have the balance fall below 400K anytime during the year.

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

Are you also a follower of other conspiracy theories? Maybe the "faked" moon landing? ????

You'd have to seriously ask yourself why would Phetchabun Immigrations, or any other remote branch, try to forge rules like this?

Forge or "interpret?"  You should have seen Jomtien immigration's cut/paste merging of the police-orders regarding the TM-30 and TM-28 - to make it look like the TM-30 was the foreigner's problem, by pasting-in TM-28 language. 

 

I am not saying that this is not correct - but perhaps it is incomplete, in that it merely leaves-out the "deposits in a bank" method - and your local office interpreted this conflicting with the recent deposit-rules as "A-Ha!  Must mean that only works for 2019."?

 

Would it be too much for immigration to publish a single-document stating what ALL the rules are - in one document - instead of "amending this or that" which is interpreted as "other thing not listed no longer exists"??

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Would it be too much for immigration to publish a single-document stating what ALL the rules are - in one document - instead of "amending this or that" which is interpreted as "other thing not listed no longer exists"??

 

Totally agree with your and Sheryl's comments above. It's bad enough having to start out with mostly TH language documents that often end up with 3rd party EN translations. But now we have the jigsaw puzzle approach to Immigration rules, where different parts and pieces are updated and explained in different documents.

 

And seemingly, not one current, up-to-date document in one place in TH or EN that covers all of the rules, requirements and documents needed for retirement extensions.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So, absent a better EN translation of the earlier TH pages of the OP's set of documents, I think the subject of this thread boils down to WHO authored the last two pages of his document package -- the TH and EN one-page set of requirements and documents for retirement extensions?

 

The earlier pages 1-4 pretty clearly are official from the Thai Immigration HQ and the national police chief. But the last two pages -- where the issue of the no longer allowing monthly Thai bank deposits arose -- seem to have an uncertain authorship. And I agree, they don't LOOK like the normal kinds of documents that come from BKK Immigration HQ.

 

PS - I'd be very interested in a good EN language translation of the national police chief's memo dated Jan. 18.  From my wife's reading of it, it seems to have some interesting content. But I don't want to go out of a limb on that subject, considering my wife's TH-EN document translation skills!

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[amexpat]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I would be cautious about continuing to use TW for the income method of extension and assuming that because your account is with BB it will always show as FTT.  This is not guaranteed.

What is? 

[PattayaDavid]

Am I correct in saying that the income affidavits issued by the embassies (American Embassy) prior to January 1, 2019 still valid for six months after issue as I plan to use this to renew my retirement extension in May?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, PattayaDavid said:

Am I correct in saying that the income affidavits issued by the embassies (American Embassy) prior to January 1, 2019 still valid for six months after issue as I plan to use this to renew my retirement extension in May?

Yes they will still be accepted.

Same for the ones done by the UK and Australian embassy.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, PattayaDavid said:

Am I correct in saying that the income affidavits issued by the embassies (American Embassy) prior to January 1, 2019 still valid for six months after issue as I plan to use this to renew my retirement extension in May?

 

They ARE supposed to be valid and accepted for the normal 6 months from issue term... But, there are been some sporadic reports of some offices refusing them once we got into 2019.... No idea how accurate those reports are or how much they've been occurring.

 

 

[mngmn]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Have you thought you might get better service and food by moving up from the 25 baht stall?

Where do you suggest KFC?

[Psimbo]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!! Will it NEVER end!!!!

 

............................................................ and its NOT a Retirement VISA it a PERMIT!!!!!

Edited February 10, 2019 by Psimbo

[khastan]

Am I correct in saying that the income affidavits issued by the embassies (American Embassy) prior to January 1, 2019 still valid for six months after issue as I plan to use this to renew my retirement extension in May?

My extension is also due in May so I certainly hope so. I took mine and showed it to two immigration officers in Nong Khai in December and they both confirmed it was,. However who knows now and if they did accept it what they would now allow as income, ie state pension, private pension interest on bank account etc.etc

Edited February 10, 2019 by khastan
added text

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

They ARE supposed to be valid and accepted for the normal 6 months from issue term... But, there are been some sporadic reports of some offices refusing them once we got into 2019.... No idea how accurate those reports are or how much they've been occurring.

I only recall report(s?) from Phuket saying they are not valid at all in 2019.  Phuket is historically difficult, though. 

 

2 minutes ago, khastan said:

My extension is also due in May so I certainly hope so. I took mine and showed it to two immigration officers in Nong Khai in December and they both confirmed it was,.

Nong Khai office is not reported as particularly friendly, but maybe not freewheeling to the extent Phuket does.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

PS - I'd be very interested in a good EN language translation of the national police chief's memo dated Jan. 18.  From my wife's reading of it, it seems to have some interesting content. But I don't want to go out of a limb on that subject, considering my wife's TH-EN document translation skills!

The only translation of the two orders I am aware are the ones ThaiVisa had done that were posted in topics about them.

And there are PDF files of them for download in the pinned topic I posted a link to earlier.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

The January 18th memo revised clause 2.22 of police order 327/2557 basis for extension of stay for the money in the bank option only.

The December 21st order revised clause 2.18 and 2.22 of police order 138/2557 documents for extension of stay for proof of income.

You can download all of them in this pinned topic.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

 

Joe, thanks for the referral to that list above... Dunno that I was aware of all those recent updates in the pinned thread before..

 

One comment -- the list in the thread for the most part doesn't seem to have any issue dates in the list itself, which makes it kind of hard on the surface to tell which things are newer or older.

 

Also, I think I see Jakthip's Jan 18 memo in Thai as #13 on that list. But the EN version listed in #12 appears to show only the revised 2.22 language, and not any EN version of Jakthip's memo itself.

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[yang123]

6 hours ago, billsmart said:

I'd be happy if that were the case. I have the entire document, the "official" Thai version. I can't read Thai, but I can read English.

Please post the official Thai version here.  

[billsmart]

5 minutes ago, yang123 said:

Please post the official Thai version here.  

I titled it "Retirement Visa Rules 2020," but it's actually the rules for 2019. In 2019 there are, I've been told and have written about them here, a dispensation allowing international bank deposits as proof of income. That, however, will not be the case in 2020, or so I've been told.

Retirement Visa Rules 2020 Thai.pdf

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I titled it "Retirement Visa Rules 2020," but it's actually the rules for 2019. In 2019 there are, I've been told and have written about them here, a dispensation allowing international bank deposits as proof of income. That, however, will not be the case in 2020, or so I've been told.

Retirement Visa Rules 2020 Thai.pdf 2.87 MB · 1 download

 

Bill, FWIW, the last two pages of your packet -- the TH and EN one pagers on required documents and details for retirement extensions -- don't necessarily look like the normal documents coming from BKK Immigration.

 

On the other hand, the first four pages definitely are legit documents from BKK... However, those first four pages don't contain the same details as in the last two pages, leaving open the question of whether those last two unsigned pages are the written interpretation of your local Immigration office.

 

[ubonjoe]

56 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

One comment -- the list in the thread for the most part doesn't seem to have any issue dates in the list itself, which makes it kind of hard on the surface to tell which things are newer or older.

 

Also, I think I see Jakthip's Jan 18 memo in Thai as #13 on that list. But the EN version listed in #12 appears to show only the revised 2.22 language, and not any EN version of Jakthip's memo itself.

 

The police order files have the year they were issued on them which means there have been no changes done since then.

You can see when I edited the topic to add the new newest revision and the last post and I did when I added the others.

The translation that was posted in the topic chopped off part of the cover letter for the order. Check messages for more info.

[ivor bigun]

After reading all this is it right that anyone who did their yearly before these new rules came out can actually spend their 400,000 baht if they wish ,but cannot after they do their next yearly

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[skatewash]

5 hours ago, Thomas J said:

I vehemently disagree.  Consider it is Thailand that should seriously rethink.  It is their regulation, not the regulation of the U.S., U.K., Australia, or Denmark.  Thailand is for all intents demanding that the rest of the world be their auditors to comply with their rules.  Thai immigration already approves numerous foreign documents such as marriage, divorce, police, medical etc.  For them to get 12 monthly statements from a local thai bank or for that matter 112 statements from any foreign bank that shows a 65K baht minimum pension is a no brainer.  They just are pushing to get more foreign money into the Thai banks. 

2

Exactly!  It would be like if the US government expected Thai banks to do the work of the IRS.  Oh wait, maybe that's where they got the idea from.  ????

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, amexpat said:

What is? 

Swift transfers. (regular bank to bank wire transfer)

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

After reading all this is it right that anyone who did their yearly before these new rules came out can actually spend their 400,000 baht if they wish ,but cannot after they do their next yearly

The rules say you are correct.  Some immigration office(s) may say otherwise:

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by JackThompson