Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

[jacko45k]

17 minutes ago, Estrada said:

I read this confirmation of the new rules, as meaning that they will give you a 3 month extension of stay "Under Consideration",

Darn another slant on it, I hope not!

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, Estrada said:

I read this confirmation of the new rules, as meaning that they will give you a 3 month extension of stay "Under Consideration", when you apply for your retirement extension. Then after 90 days you have to go back to immigration and they check that you still have no less than the B800K in your bank and then they will give you the balance of 9 months, making 1 year. This is what still needs clarifying. (They were applying this rule for first applications 9 years ago).

There is nothing in the rules that say that. That was just a supposition by some people.

I don't recall there ever being a under consideration period for retirement extension applications.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Not according to Immigration, although that's what the English translation suggests.

Order 35/22562 hasn't replaced order 327/2557, it's in addition to that order with minor changes and supposed to clarify the process, but appears to have had the opposite effect.

They should be read together as one …….. confusing I know, but, that was the explanation given.

 

With respect, I think the officers you spoke to have got it wrong. What has been issued is a full replacement of conditions and criteria for ‘2.22 Retirement’. If it has been wrongly written we may see a replacement order specifying the difference between the new and renewal applications etc. as with the original 2014 order.

 

However, I beleive that they have standardised the “seasoning” requirement to 2 months for new and renewals, probably because they’ve added the ‘overkill’ minimum balance requirements.

 

IMO they will not issue anything more beyond ‘maybe’ internal clarification of this new order. Hopefully after that we will get some consistency coming out from the offices.

 

Your report is excellent, but I still don’t think we can take what you were told as definitive. I hope they are right on the combo method and wrong about the seasoning.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, wobalt said:

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

How many Chinese do you reckon apply for the types of extensions reliant on embassy letters?

I don’t know but I know many Chinese investing now heavily in properties in Thailand

That may well be true. But I doubt many Chinese are using embassy letters to prove income for extensions of stay. Your average Chinese is not going to be retiring on 65K pm. They will be living in Thailand by other methods.

 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, Graviton said:

UK has P60 which is a legal income/tax document.  Why cannot use this its straight from the gov.

They can be faked. There are websites offering ‘replacement’ payslips/P60’s.

[wobalt]

They can be faked. There are websites offering ‘replacement’ payslips/P60’s.

Oh yes, everywhere are criminals.


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[elviajero]

4 hours ago, thesa said:

How does one prove 800K remains in the bank for three months after being granted the extension? Another trip to Immigration with a 100 baht letter from the bank and your updated passbook?

You don’t. It will not be checked until you apply for the next extension, and if you didn’t keep the minimum required balances the next extension could be refused.

 

4 hours ago, thesa said:

Would the three month reporting that funds remain in the bank be enforced with a visa cancellation?

That’s not going to happen. They’ll simply not issue another extension when you go to renew.

[phuketrichard]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not mentioned in the new rules as to when or how it will be checked.

It is assumed at this time it will not be checked until you go to apply for your next extension.

Went to Phuket immigration today

 

PHUKET people.

Volunteer told me this

She said;

show your 800,000 in the bank via your Bankbook 3 months in advance of applying,

than after your extension is issued they will give you your new 90 day report date at which time you will need come back with your bank book showing 800,000 still there

After 3 months will need report BACK again with your bank book for your next 90 day report, than again after 3 months showing 400,000

after which u will need start the 800,000 for next extension.

 

I asked what if you do your 90-day report online or via mail,...she didn't know

asked what if  you travel and your 90 day is reset... she didn't know

asked what if i show 6 months of 65,000 international wires (my extension is due 4th of July) and before used the embassy letter.
she said Up to the Immigration officer if he will accept or not. 

 

So what if i leave for 4 months each year?
what if i drop below 400,000 (if only for a week) will I lose my extension and have to leave the country, will i be fined?
she had NO IDEA

and it goes into effect in 2 weeks
will i.....

 

 

 

[onera1961]

That’s not going to happen. They’ll simply not issue another extension when you go to renew.

So you need to apply for a new extension? I so, I think this is the loop hole agents will exploit. And charge more of course. Great. More money in the pockets of agents and others involved in this money minting scheme.

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[jacko45k]

8 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

and it goes into effect in 2 weeks

It has as much chance as Brexit!

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

I am not retired. I am married and working here. My quote from your OP was the 2nd option under "Married" covering "Income Method".

I only gave a report of the issues I discussed with Immigration, which did not include those deriving an income from Thailand, but assuming your on a marriage extension and have a WP separately, then under the amendment to order 138/2557, section 18, clause 1, would apply in that instance.

Quote

1) A personal income tax form together with the payment slip.

 

[ace000]

Could someone give some feed back on another query . I have a half share in a conbo worth about 2 million with my wife , is there a perversion in the act as it stands at present , that I could use that half share as collateral in the future ? Again thank you all for you input.



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[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

With respect, I think the officers you spoke to have got it wrong. What has been issued is a full replacement of conditions and criteria for ‘2.22 Retirement’. If it has been wrongly written we may see a replacement order specifying the difference between the new and renewal applications etc. as with the original 2014 order.

 

Appreciate what your saying, but that being the case and order 35/2662 is a full replacement of section 2.22 of order 327/2557 and I quote from 35/2562.

Quote

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than THB 65,000

At face value, would that then mean he has dropped the 'monthly'  requirement for retirement extensions based on incomes.

 

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

Your report is excellent, but I still don’t think we can take what you were told as definitive. I hope they are right on the combo method and wrong about the seasoning.

+1.

I still believe there will be more clarification and another twist to what we're being told.

Like you I believe the seasoning periods for the funds method has been totally misinterpreted by offices.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, ace000 said:

Could someone give some feed back on another query . I have a half share in a conbo worth about 2 million with my wife , is there a perversion in the act as it stands at present , that I could use that half share as collateral in the future ? Again thank you all for you input.

There is no provision in the police order for using it to apply for an extension.

It is money in the bank or proof of income or both to reach at total of 800k baht. Nothing other than that is allowed.

[ace000]

Thank you for clarifying that .


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[elviajero]

6 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

This is real? If yes then it's real stupid. Why does the money for current income HAVE to come from overseas?

Because the applicant is a foreigner wanting to live (not work) in Thailand, and is expected to have an income or cash from there home country as any typical retiree would.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, phuketrichard said:

Went to Phuket immigration today

 

PHUKET people.

Volunteer told me this

She said;

show your 800,000 in the bank via your Bankbook 3 months in advance of applying,

than after your extension is issued they will give you your new 90 day report date at which time you will need come back with your bank book showing 800,000 still there

After 3 months will need report BACK again with your bank book for your next 90 day report, than again after 3 months showing 400,000 ...

This matches a Chiang Rai report - Reset 90-day upon application, then show bank book with each 90-day report. 

 

It also matches an initial agent-report - how they will be charging "extra fees" for each quarterly report, similar to how they set things up to make more corruption-money from ED extensions (3 instead of 1 per year - each with the "extra fee").

 

This seems unworkable, but when you realize their system attempts to ascertain your home-address via 4 different overlapping-info forms (TM-6, TM-28, TM-30, 90-day report), it would not surprise me.  Anything to put the honest folks through the wringer is possible.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, steve73 said:

Quick heads up for those of you who may be considering switching from a retirement extension using an embassy income letter, to a marriage extension using either income or cash in the bank.

 

I've heard of three people who have tried to do this in the past few weeks that have been refused, or it's been made VERY difficult for them.. not all in the same regional office.

In one case, the drop in the GBP which was previously borderline OK, is now insufficient.  Another was using Transferwise and doesn't trust that they will accept the deposits as being sourced from outside T/L, so has topped up his account but could only get to 400k in time. 

 

It's possible that Immigration Officers may suspect that they want to change because they thought that the previous letters may have been "dubious".  Or maybe that don't want all the extra work..?

 

But the message seems to be clear... If you're on the "retirement" try to remain on that method if possible.

The solution would be to do a visa run. Get a new non ‘O’ based on marriage and start the extension process over.

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

So what if i leave for 4 months each year?
what if i drop below 400,000 (if only for a week) will I lose my extension and have to leave the country, will i be fined?
she had NO IDEA

and it goes into effect in 2 weeks
will i.....

 

I  would love to keep my  retirement extension alive but the money in the bank system is absurd and I refuse to become part of the  absurdity.  Does Immigration think all we have to do is go to Immigration with updated bank books and possibly bank letters and then keep 400K in a Thai bank forever.

 

I and others worked hard all of our lives and came to Thailand to retire-not to become slave to the Immigration Department.

 

I will send the 65K each month even though I find having to do a transfer each month  nonsensical when I can walk up to any Thai ATM and get any amount I need and a few documents to Immigration prove it. Then back it up with a bank statement and 4  Foreign aTM cards,  No one is going to forge ATM cards.

 

 

[ivor bigun]

It has as much chance as Brexit!

Then its a done deal

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[bigginhill]

1 hour ago, ace000 said:

Could someone give some feed back on another query . I have a half share in a conbo worth about 2 million with my wife , is there a perversion in the act as it stands at present , that I could use that half share as collateral in the future ? Again thank you all for you input.



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No ones answering, but I take it there isn't. 

Would have been a great help if they had considered that, even a percentage of the value.

[overherebc]

3 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

No ones answering, but I take it there isn't. 

Would have been a great help if they had considered that, even a percentage of the value.

Seems cash is king.

Just sayin.

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, wobalt said:

All the fuzz started when the named embassies stopped the income letters. Why not put pressure on them to reinstall the letters?

I appreciate the embassy letters were good for some expats that didn’t actually have the required income or didn’t want to bring all their income into the country, BUT if those using cash have to bring in 800K Plus to prove they’ve got it, then so should those using income have to bring in that income. 

 

I can see the embassy letter option eventually being dropped by immigration.

Edited February 13, 2019 by elviajero

[wobalt]

I appreciate the embassy letters were good for some expats that didn’t actually have the required income or didn’t want to bring all their income into the country, BUT if those using cash have to bring in 800K Plus to prove they’ve got it, then so should those using income have to bring in that income. 
 
I can see the embassy letter option eventually being dropped by immigration.

I can see that named embassies reintroduce the income letters


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[rott]

7 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

This is real? If yes then it's real stupid. Why does the money for current income HAVE to come from overseas?

Mr Webb, questions such as "why" and "how" are totally irrelevant. As is the word "should". If you/we understand "what" that is as good as it gets.

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, wobalt said:

I can see that named embassies reintroduce the income letters


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I can see a few months of total confusion coming up, yes it's confusing now but it's just going to get worse.

[rott]

37 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

No ones answering, but I take it there isn't. 

Would have been a great help if they had considered that, even a percentage of the value.

But they never have.

[wobalt]

I can see a few months of total confusion coming up, yes it's confusing now but it's just going to get worse.

Yes, which will hopefullylead to a collapse of the system


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[overherebc]

I like to live my life with a sense of humour to the fore in all things but recently I'm finding it more difficult to do. 

For a long time I did in the past have short periods where living here got to me, usually a month or so then I'd snap out of it and go with the flow.

I'm starting to feel those periods of 'annoyance' are becoming more frequent.

[rott]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Because the applicant is a foreigner wanting to live (not work) in Thailand, and is expected to have an income or cash from there home country as any typical retiree would.

This of course is true.

 

When I do not instinctvely argue with elvajero perhaps it is a sign that I need to drink more. 3 large Leo in "cocktail hour" obviously totally inadequate.