Left turn on red

[elgenon]

In California to turn right on red (which is permitted unless sign says otherwise) you have to stop first. I'm sure Thailand has a similar safety precaution.

[topt]

52 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Bikes don't have licence plates

I don't see an emoticon so not sure if you are serious or taking the proverbial...........

[Snow Leopard]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Whoever has the biggest car has right of way. Bikes have right of way in all circumstances. In fact, bikes don't have to follow any of the rules of the road, except when they actually cause an accident.

Then they blame the driver of the car.

[reargunnerph3]

Allowed unless there is a sign saying "left turn waiting light" or some other form of bad English saying no left turn on a red light. Policeman needing donations may change the traffic rules to alleviate his problem.

[Snow Leopard]

Turning left on a red signal helps traffic flow on multi-lane entries and exit junctions if the give way is observed correctly. One lane is entering on the left-hand side of the road and the opposite lane is entering on the right-hand side. 

 

Quite clearly this does not work when the exit road is a single lane road. It creates chaos in the centre of the junction. There might be other issues on the exit road as well. 

 

This is why you can turn left at some intersections and not at others.

 

But in Thailand and because everyone obeys all the rules here including motorcycles there are never any issues at these junctions. Clean and smooth flowing traffic all the time. ????

[Expattaff1308]

19 hours ago, transam said:

But sadly most don't...

The rule of thumb being Ïf it is safe to do so" but as stated too many consider it a right of way despite other traffic.

[Dazinoz]

I used to stop but then get tooted by cars behind me. 

 

In Chiang Mai there is a left turn from Changklan Road into Sridonchai Road near Panthip Plaza which actually has a red left arrow. They still turn on the red arrow and I still get tooted if I stop.

[connda]

On 3/2/2019 at 6:45 AM, Lacessit said:

However, I constantly see cars and scooters doing left turns on red where there are no signs.

Cars and scooters will turn left without stopping at Stop Signs too. 
So the real story is that most Thais neither stop at red stop lights or stop signs when turning, and they also will jam their vehicles in front of you in complete disregard of right-of-way laws.  Why?  I don't believe that most drivers know anything about right-of-way laws.  That includes police. If they are in front of you, even turning from a side street with a red light or stop sign, in their pee brains they are in front of you so it's their road and not yours. 

[Gecko123]

13 hours ago, jackdd said:

Afaik you may only turn left on red if there is a sign which says you are allowed to do so. It says เลี้ยวซ้ายผ่านตลอด if you put this in Google image search you will find examples.

In reality you will of course see people turning left on red at any intersection. That you might sometimes see signs which say something like "turn left wait for green" does of course contribute to the confusion and might lead people to believe that by default it would be allowed.

Many intersections have a lane dedicated to left-turn traffic which merges into through traffic. Unless there is a stop sign for this lane, it is permissible to make a left turn, merging into through traffic provided it is safe to do so. If there is a stop sign present, you are expected to come to a complete stop, and can turn left when it is safe to do so. If there is a red light for left turning traffic, a left turn is illegal.

 

There are some intersections which are controlled by traffic lights without a dedicated left turn light. This creates ambiguity about whether it is OK to turn left on a red light, and traffic can sometimes decide to wait for the thru traffic light even though it is safe to make a left turn. It is my understanding that the "left turn allowed all the time (เลี้ยวซ้ายผ่านตลอด)" sign is there to inform drivers that a left turn (provided it is safe to do so) is permissible. The primary purpose for this sign is to keep traffic moving. The "left turn allowed" sign doesn't mean that in the absence of this sign, a left turn is illegal. In the absence of a red left-turn arrow, or other signage forbidding a left turn on a red light, a left turn is legal in Thailand when safe to do so.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Gecko123

[bluesofa]

13 hours ago, jackdd said:

Afaik you may only turn left on red if there is a sign which says you are allowed to do so. It says เลี้ยวซ้ายผ่านตลอด if you put this in Google image search you will find examples.

In reality you will of course see people turning left on red at any intersection. That you might sometimes see signs which say something like "turn left wait for green" does of course contribute to the confusion and might lead people to believe that by default it would be allowed.

I'm aware you said 'AFAIK'.

Do you, or anyone else, by any chance have the English version of the Thai highway code about this?

So far, I can't see anything in the highway code that shows an exception to the rule either way, but I'm still looking.

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by bluesofa
grammar

[Almer]

A hopeless situation, but to me why wait to turn left if it is safe to do, by safe i dont mean barge your way in,  but clear to turn left, as i say a hopeless situation.

[Speedhump]

Strange, because the only signs I have ever noticed (in Hua Hin, two of them, on the lesser roads at major intersections) are to prohibit left turn on red, leading me to believe that it is always permitted unless a sign prohibits. Confusing. 

[lagavulin1]

Oops. My Thai family informed me the exact opposite. Left allowed unless sign forbids it. Not been ticketed in 7 years for that thank goodness. 

[jackdd]

47 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

I'm aware you said 'AFAIK'.

Do you, or anyone else, by any chance have the English version of the Thai highway code about this?

So far, I can't see anything in the highway code that shows an exception to the rule either way, but I'm still looking.

 

Here an english translation of the law: http://driving-in-thailand.com/land-traffic-act/

Section 22 says:

Red: the driver shall stop the vehicle behind the stop line.

I couldn't find any line which says that it's ok to turn left on a red light, so most probably by default it's not allowed.

Writing that it's forbidden to turn left if the traffic light is red is not required, because this situation is covered by the above law already.

 

So in my opinion turning left is forbidden unless explicitly allowed by the sign mentioned before. (I can of course not "prove" that such an exception does not exist)

If it were allowed by default we would find an exception for this anywhere in the law, if somebody can point to such an exception (if it exists) i'm willing to change my opinion.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Here's a link to the forty-year-old regulation in Thai, and some discussion of it:

https://pantip.com/topic/31033012

 

Basically it says that left turns on a stop light are prohibited, with a fine from 2-500 Baht for violation, unless specifically allowed by a sign. 

Just as here, the comments below talk of irate drivers behind blowing their horns, tapping on windows etc if the car at the front of the queue refuses to turn on a red light. So I suspect there is just as much confusion as to the regulation among Thais as there is among foreigners - or that Thais are as willing to ignore this regulation as they are every other one.

Edited March 3, 2019 by PerkinsCuthbert

[JAG]

20 hours ago, johng said:

I always understood it was ok to turn left on red if its clear to do so and no signs prohibiting it ?

If you are driving the local bus from Chiang Rai to Wiang Chiang Rung, you must ensure that the lady who collects the fares hangs out of the doorway and shouts a warning to any nearby motorcycles, you can then engage the clutch and lurch onwards and leftwards, secured from interception or identification by a smokescreen which would do credit to a second world war destroyer attempting to hide a convoy from the "Bismark"!

[bkk6060]

I would just follow what the motor bike taxis do as they know and always follow the law.

[Pilotman]

3 hours ago, elgenon said:

In California to turn right on red (which is permitted unless sign says otherwise) you have to stop first. I'm sure Thailand has a similar safety precaution.

Yes, but in fairness, you still drive on the wrong side of the road, so that's just confusing. 

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

The rule of thumb being Ïf it is safe to do so" but as stated too many consider it a right of way despite other traffic.

but as it's never safe to drive anywhere at any time in Thailand, that rule  of thumb doesn't really help much. 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, Speedhump said:

Strange, because the only signs I have ever noticed (in Hua Hin, two of them, on the lesser roads at major intersections) are to prohibit left turn on red, leading me to believe that it is always permitted unless a sign prohibits. Confusing. 

Haha.

Confusing why?

If the sign says No then No.

If No sign OK to go.

Seems like one of the simplest deductions in the history of mankind.

[bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Haha.

Confusing why?

If the sign says No then No.

If No sign OK to go.

Seems like one of the simplest deductions in the history of mankind.

Ha ha! You're using ferang logic there. Lose two points.

 

[Spidey]

22 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Yes, but in fairness, you still drive on the wrong side of the road, so that's just confusing. 

Yes, the right side is the wrong side. Confuses me too.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, lagavulin1 said:

Oops. My Thai family informed me the exact opposite. Left allowed unless sign forbids it. Not been ticketed in 7 years for that thank goodness. 

My Thai family told me, "Slow down, look around, if no police, go." Works for me.

[dotpoom]

Can turn left except where sign says "Waiting for light".

[Burma Bill]

22 hours ago, johng said:

I always understood it was ok to turn left on red if its clear to do so and no signs prohibiting it ?

I always turn left at a red light if the way is CLEAR. Look down onto the road - if there is a large white painted arrow pointing left in your lane then GO. If you do not, you will get a very loud audible "prompt" to turn left from Thai drivers behind you - perhaps even road rage!!

[Formaleins]

Regardless of whether or not it is legal or illegal, be prepared to turn left on red especially if you are on a bike. If you don't want to turn on red, keep out of the left lane as all you will accomplish is pi$$ing everyone else off and holding up the traffic. If you are on a bike, the trucks behind will push you out of the way to get through. Like I say, legality does not matter, when in Rome, or you will probably put yourself in danger.

[NoshowJones]

If there are no signs then yes you can, but only if the road is clear, but in Pattaya, there are plenty of signs forbidding it.

Edited March 3, 2019 by possum1931

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, elgenon said:

In California to turn right on red (which is permitted unless sign says otherwise) you have to stop first. I'm sure Thailand has a similar safety precaution.

I have driven in California, a flashing red light means stop, then carry on if road is clear.

A flashing yellow light means proceed with caution, and yes you can turn right, left in Thailand, on

a red if the road is clear, unless there is a sign telling you not to.

[rwill]

lol, I also see people making right hand turns from the far left lane.

[smotherb]

Sitting in my Thai local with the owner and two boys in brown; the topic came around to Thai traffic laws. I asked why they were not better enforced; both boys in brown agreed that they were being enforced. That no sooner got out of their mouths, when two other boys in brown on a scooter, both without helmets, crossed the main road against the light and headed up the wrong way on a one-way street. I pointed it out; the reply: No one really cares about it, and they were police, so it was alright.  I think that explains it very well.