British man who 'started new life' in Thailand desperately ill amid insurance wrangle

[Sealbash]

Why do we only read about situations like this in Thailand?
 Never read about cases like this happening in Europe!
And I can tell you why - The problem is not the tourists.
 First those with valid licenses might have rented vehicles in the past in other countries and automatically assume that they are properly insured. Why does Thailand allow people to operate or companies to rent out vehicles without proper insurance? Especially for rented vehicles there should be comprehensive insurance mandatory!
 
For tourists the problem are Thai rental companies and nobody else!
 Thai rental companies should be held accountable for renting vehicles out to people without a proper license to drive - like in every other country - period!
 
I am not even sure if all of them do have a business license themselves to rent out vehicles?
 There is no way you could rent a vehicle in Europe without the rental company checking if you are licensed to drive such a vehicle!
 
Just look at the disgusting charade that is going on in Chiang Mai every single day.
 Rental companies rent out motorbikes to probably hundreds of people without a driving license every single day!
The police is then lurking around the corners around the moat and fine the tourists a 1000 baht for driving without a valid license.
 
When the tourist should have never been able to rent a bike without a valid license in the first place.
 
And then it comes - after taking the money - the tourists are then allowed by the police to carry-on and drive around without a license!
 
Rental companies who rent out vehicles without proper insurance to people without a license and police should be held responsible if accidents happen - not the tourists who should have never been able to rent a vehicle!
 
 
 
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect
 
 
 

Yes, many nanny states have caused their citizens to totally depend on the government or corporations to ensure their safety and well being. An individual can not be responsible for their own actions. Any unfortunate incidents are the fault of government / corporations.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Basil B]

31... Just comes out to Thailand, one way ticket, little money, (if any) to start a new life, yet seems to be living the high life, wish I could find out how to do that.

 

 

[happy chappie]

Lots of reasons why the insurance will refuse to pay out.1 being if he had 12 months travel insurance he can only travel for 90 days before he needs to return to the uk else it becomes invalid.2 no license as most policies require you to have a full motor bike license from your own country and also an international driving license from the post office in the uk.also the scooter must not be above 125cc.when I've rented scooters I've always stipulated I want a 125cc not 135 or 150cc.i don't think any travel insurance would cover anyone for big bike in Thailand.

[Blackheart1916]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

so what   ?

 

out of the millions that come here and spend money in Thailand every year making them billions (12% of the countries GDP) how many end up with a medical emergency like the OP, it is so insignificant it isn't worth considering, Thailand is dangerous especially on the roads - it is their duty to make it as safe as possible for people who come here for a holiday, it's not as if they haven't had long enough to improve things.

 

But regardless of that, considering the very small number of people that end up in this sort of situation while here on holiday it is no real big deal (all things considered) for the country to provide free emergency medical assistance to the few that need it, they make huge revenue from tourism how about giving some back when some fall foul of the poor safety.

 

Not so long ago we had some children that got themselves into trouble in a cave - there was no shortage of foreign volunteers willing to put their lives at serious risk to save them. 

All good points smedly, but my view is that people come to Thailand expecting something approaching 1st world standards in infrastructure, safety, medical support etc, when that is clearly not the case. I know none of this is mentioned in the glossy tourism brochures,  but 10 minutes on the net can give anyone a much more accurate picture. Caveat emptor.

[jak2002003]

8 minutes ago, Sealbash said:

Yes, many nanny states have caused their citizens to totally depend on the government or corporations to ensure their safety and well being. An individual can not be responsible for their own actions. Any unfortunate incidents are the fault of government / corporations.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Yes.  What sort dumb looser would go and rent a bike when they don't even know how to ride one?  What's made some many people so stupid these days?  

 

I can't drive a car, never had had lessons..... should I go rent one and drive around Thailand... (and with no money in the bank or insurance either), speed and crash it off a cliff...... then my dear Mummy can go on a go fund me page pleading for people to give us free money for my stupidity.  

 

Oh, and it wold not be my fault I ran down a few kids and an old lady.  It is clearly THAILANDS fault not mine.  What a joke and perverse view of the world some people have.  Do anything to never admit they are in the wrong or made mistakes..... that sounds like the people who also moan about Thai people 'saving face'.... seems they are more alike than they like to admit.  

 

 

[smedly]

14 minutes ago, Blackheart1916 said:

All good points smedly, but my view is that people come to Thailand expecting something approaching 1st world standards in infrastructure, safety, medical support etc, when that is clearly not the case. I know none of this is mentioned in the glossy tourism brochures,  but 10 minutes on the net can give anyone a much more accurate picture. Caveat emptor.

very true which is why Thailand should share some responsibility - 

[Basil B]

Apart from the medical bills and cost of a flight home I assume the people who rented out the bike to a guy without a valid driving licence want paying for the damage to the bike...

[smedly]

9 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Yes.  What sort dumb looser would go and rent a bike when they don't even know how to ride one?  What's made some many people so stupid these days?  

 

I can't drive a car, never had had lessons..... should I go rent one and drive around Thailand... (and with no money in the bank or insurance either), speed and crash it off a cliff...... then my dear Mummy can go on a go fund me page pleading for people to give us free money for my stupidity.  

 

Oh, and it wold not be my fault I ran down a few kids and an old lady.  It is clearly THAILANDS fault not mine.  What a joke and perverse view of the world some people have.  Do anything to never admit they are in the wrong or made mistakes..... that sounds like the people who also moan about Thai people 'saving face'.... seems they are more alike than they like to admit.  

 

 

try renting a car in the UK and see how far you get, people do stupid things - rules and laws are there to protect

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

very true which is why Thailand should share some responsibility - 

 In what way? Go halves in an irresponsible idiot's medical bills?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

his travel insurer would not cover all the costs as he did not have a licence to ride the moped.

Did not have a licence to ride the moped - says it all! The insurer is within their rights to pay nothing.

 

Head injuries- was he like all the other farang youths riding mopeds in LOS without any safety gear whatsoever?

Happens all the time- young tourists never rode a m'bike in their lives before come to Thailand and think they can.  Jump on wearing shorts and flip flops, hit sand on a corner or some other hazard on the road, and it's all over. The link doesn't say he WAS hit, it just says he MAY have been hit.

 

BTW, how does someone without even 3 thousand quid start a "new life" in a strange foreign land. Does he have skills that can get him a legal job? I'd like to know what visa he has.

[Basil B]

20 minutes ago, happy chappie said:

Lots of reasons why the insurance will refuse to pay out.1 being if he had 12 months travel insurance he can only travel for 90 days before he needs to return to the uk else it becomes invalid.2 no license as most policies require you to have a full motor bike license from your own country and also an international driving license from the post office in the uk.also the scooter must not be above 125cc.when I've rented scooters I've always stipulated I want a 125cc not 135 or 150cc.i don't think any travel insurance would cover anyone for big bike in Thailand.

To be fair, he may not have exceeded the 90 days at the time of the accident. but yes, many do not bother to understand or care about the limitations of any insurance they may have.

[Kieran00001]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

so what   ?

 

out of the millions that come here and spend money in Thailand every year making them billions (12% of the countries GDP) how many end up with a medical emergency like the OP, it is so insignificant it isn't worth considering, Thailand is dangerous especially on the roads - it is their duty to make it as safe as possible for people who come here for a holiday, it's not as if they haven't had long enough to improve things.

 

But regardless of that, considering the very small number of people that end up in this sort of situation while here on holiday it is no real big deal (all things considered) for the country to provide free emergency medical assistance to the few that need it, they make huge revenue from tourism how about giving some back when some fall foul of the poor safety.

 

Not so long ago we had some children that got themselves into trouble in a cave - there was no shortage of foreign volunteers willing to put their lives at serious risk to save them. 

 

It is the law that all hospitals, state owned or private, must provide free emergency treatment for the first 72 hours.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, smedly said:

try renting a car in the UK and see how far you get, people do stupid things - rules and laws are there to protect

What about self responsibility? Too many young people think it's always up to "someone else" to be responsible for them.

He comes from a nanny state, so he may have thought it was up to "someone else", but in LOS it's up to the individual to act responsibly, not wait to be told what to do. LOS is no nanny state, and a good thing too, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Apart from the medical bills and cost of a flight home I assume the people who rented out the bike to a guy without a valid driving licence want paying for the damage to the bike...

Wonder if they still have his passport?

[scorecard]

58 minutes ago, Blackheart1916 said:

All good points smedly, but my view is that people come to Thailand expecting something approaching 1st world standards in infrastructure, safety, medical support etc, when that is clearly not the case. I know none of this is mentioned in the glossy tourism brochures,  but 10 minutes on the net can give anyone a much more accurate picture. Caveat emptor.

And it's up to each individual to either acquaint themselves with the destination and medical facilities etc., etc, or not do so, in which case it's buyer beware, nothing more nothing less.

 

Some questions:

 

- Why would people expect 1st world standards in Thailand?

 

- Surely the majority of travellers would already know Thailand is a poor and developing country, and those that don't know when they see hotel prices (just one example) at beach resorts, US$25- a day with breakfast, and down even much lower, would they not realize Thailand is a poor developing country? 

 

- Specifically in regard to health care, whether the standards in Thailand are first world or otherwise, it still leaves totally open who pays.

 

- Most travellers seem to ignore the need for travel and medical insurance. Would these folks seriously expect Thailand to pay their medical bills? I certainly hope not, surely these folks have a better understanding of right and wrong / personal responsibility / and morals.

 

- An open discussion points - I wonder how many travel agents in the UK (and other countries) mention to potential clients the need to take travel & medical insurance. Seems to me a few agents would but a much larger number just don't care, in fact they want the payment for the tour now and they are not likely to mention add ons which will increase the costs and possibly kill the sale. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smedly]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What about self responsibility? Too many young people think it's always up to "someone else" to be responsible for them.

He comes from a nanny state, so he may have thought it was up to "someone else", but in LOS it's up to the individual to act responsibly, not wait to be told what to do. LOS is no nanny state, and a good thing too, IMO.

we are not all flawless like you

[Basil B]

I recall out diving one day, I was diving a wreak at about 28m towards the end of the dive the dive leader lead us off the wreak to the "UXB" about 100m from the wreak, I hovered about 2m above the group as they prodded it with their knives, on surfacing the dive leader, a well experienced British expat diving instructor wanted to know what the problem was, apart from the dive briefing which there had been no mention of  the detour, or the fact it was at 32m, I explained my insurance only covered me down to 30m.

 

This was as I recall a condition of all the travel insurances that I had looked at the time, yet the instructor was unaware of this... 

[SammyT]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Dunno Sammy, that's a tough 'un.

 

What did you learn BTW?

I didn't learn anything about myself being in Thailand. I'm not really one of those "Eat Pray Love" types who has to go somewhere else in the world to "find myself"

[Basil B]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Wonder if they still have his passport?

My thoughts too...

[jayboy]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What about self responsibility? Too many young people think it's always up to "someone else" to be responsible for them.

He comes from a nanny state, so he may have thought it was up to "someone else", but in LOS it's up to the individual to act responsibly, not wait to be told what to do. LOS is no nanny state, and a good thing too, IMO.

Unfortunately, this is true. The prevailing attitude in the native white lower classes in the UK is to believe someone - usually the government - will always help you out no matter how stupid, irresponsible or feckless you have been. Immigrants tend to have more gumption.

 

As Michael Caine once pointed out - if a council house needs redecorating tenants will whine for years that the local authorities won't help/are too slow. It never occurs to them to go out and buy a few pots of paint.

 

They will rage at "toffs" and the better educated and indeed anybody who makes them feel inadequate. But one thing they will never do is take personal responsibility.

[SammyT]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

we are not all flawless like you

It's not about being flawless. It's about exercising common sense. I would say making an mistake is something like stepping into traffic without looking both ways. Going to a moto shop, hiring a moto, driving that moto all while knowing you're not allowed to drive it isn't a flaw or a mistake, it's a deliberate and conscious decision. One which didn't pay dividends for old mate. 

[jayboy]

5 minutes ago, smedly said:

we are not all flawless like you

 

He's not saying he is personally flawless. He's just pointing out the unwillingness of idiots - like the tattoed guy sitting on a rock - to take responsibility. He's right too. 

[SammyT]

1 hour ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Why do we only read about situations like this in Thailand?

 Never read about cases like this happening in Europe!

And I can tell you why - The problem is not the tourists.

 

 

For tourists the problem are Thai rental companies and nobody else!

 Thai rental companies should be held accountable for renting vehicles out to people without a proper license to drive - like in every other country - period!

 

I am not even sure if all of them do have a business license themselves to rent out vehicles?

 There is no way you could rent a vehicle in Europe without the rental company checking if you are licensed to drive such a vehicle!

 

Just look at the disgusting charade that is going on in Chiang Mai every single day.

 Rental companies rent out motorbikes to probably hundreds of people without a driving license every single day!

The police is then lurking around the corners around the moat and fine the tourists a 1000 baht for driving without a valid license.

 

When the tourist should have never been able to rent a bike without a valid license in the first place.

 

And then it comes - after taking the money - the tourists are then allowed by the police to carry-on and drive around without a license!

 

Rental companies who rent out vehicles without proper insurance to people without a license and police should be held responsible if accidents happen - not the tourists who should have never been able to rent a vehicle!

Do you not understand the concept of personal responsibility? I've not seen one motorcycle rental company force a tourist at gunpoint to rent one of the motos. Tourists make a choice, the companies provide the bike to do it. 

 

Comparing Thailand to Europe shows flawed logic as well. Thailand is a developing country, it's not Europe. There is minimal comparisons that can be made. 

 

Also, the cops around the moat normally charge 200 - 400 baht, so don't be so dramatic. 

 

Tourists make these choices knowing full well they're not licenced to ride the bikes. There have been enough of these idiots in the news around the world to also know that travel insurance doesn't cover motorbike accidents as well. It's solely the tourists fault if they have an accident. I came to Thailand frequently over the course of 10 years before moving here, and I never hired a moto for the very reason that I knew travel insurance wouldn't cover me. It's only since I've got my licence, backed up by comprehensive expat insurance that I choose to drive one. 

 

But no, you're right. It's Thailand's fault, 

 

 

[gk10002000]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

he did not have a licence to ride the moped.

Read the insurance policy carefully.  Typically, as seems to be the case here, the person was not licensed to ride a motorbike in his home country.  Most tourists, I am sure percentage wise, that ride the scooters around Thailand while on vacation are NOT licensed to drive motorbikes in their home countries.  No problems until things go really bad.  If anybody knows any insurance companies that really do treat casual motorbike riders well that may be on vacations, please post

[smedly]

I will repeat what I said earlier, Thailand has a responsiblility to keep its visitors and citizens safe, it fails miserably on all fronts, I find it hard to believe people here think that tourists who are severely injured when holidaying here are 100% to blame

 

If you went on holiday to London right now and got attacked and stabbed on the street - who gets the blame for that one ????? 

[GreenerGrass]

5 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Can you say 100% he did not have drink in him?

No you cant so stop, how do you know for sure it was a hit and run? You dont.

 

OMG I am basing my comments on the reporting that has been made available. 1. states very clearly in the first paragraph of the news report that it was a "hit and run" 2. No where in the news report does it mention that he was drinking.  

[The Fugitive]

Moto rental companies should insist on seeing a valid motorcycle licence and International Driving Permit indicating motorcycle before they let you rent. Insurance to be provided by the rental company.

[colinneil]

8 minutes ago, GreenerGrass said:

OMG I am basing my comments on the reporting that has been made available. 1. states very clearly in the first paragraph of the news report that it was a "hit and run" 2. No where in the news report does it mention that he was drinking.  

No where in the report said he had not been drinking.

[Tropicalevo]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

so what   ?

 

out of the millions that come here and spend money in Thailand every year making them billions (12% of the countries GDP) how many end up with a medical emergency like the OP, it is so insignificant it isn't worth considering, Thailand is dangerous especially on the roads - it is their duty to make it as safe as possible for people who come here for a holiday, it's not as if they haven't had long enough to improve things.

 

But regardless of that, considering the very small number of people that end up in this sort of situation while here on holiday it is no real big deal (all things considered) for the country to provide free emergency medical assistance to the few that need it, they make huge revenue from tourism how about giving some back when some fall foul of the poor safety.

 

Not so long ago we had some children that got themselves into trouble in a cave - there was no shortage of foreign volunteers willing to put their lives at serious risk to save them. 

I cannot believe that you really think that Thailand is responsible for idiots who drive scooters without a licence (or helmet?).

 

So Thailand should pay for ALL treatment for ALL road accidents? Or just for the foreigners?

 

Oh but wait - the government hospitals DO provide this treatment. It is the after care that they do not provide for - unless you are on the social security plan.

 

In fact, ALL hospitals are required to provide emergency care FOC in the first instance.

 

When my wife had a heart attack, she was taken to Bangkok Samui hospital where they spent a long time attempting to resuscitate her. There was no fee. Had she survived, I would have had to pay for the ongoing recovery treatment.

 

From reading the original story, I think that the guy was treated and released. It is the ongoing treatment that the family are looking for help with.

[smedly]

29 minutes ago, SammyT said:

Do you not understand the concept of personal responsibility

do you understand the responsibility of a country you visit (especially one that markets itself as a prime tourist destination) on vacation and the responsibility they have to you to make best efforts to keep you safe by enforcing laws and safety standards

 

what is it they call themselves "Amazing Thailand" - yes amazing if you get to go home without some lawless drunk idiot hitting you with a hammer or a car, or some rental company giving you a vehicle that you are not licenced to drive