Brexit deadlocked again: British parliament fails to find an alternative

[david555]

12 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The 39 billion is part of the May/Merkel surrender treaty, so is not only disputed but has been rejected by the commons three times so far.
Although I’m not a fan of the Parliament trickery at the moment, in this one issue it has performed its function properly. Unlike many of the previous EU treaties, on this occasion a signature from the PM is not enough to sign away the UK’s rights.

Time will tell , but isn't it strange that MP  has to FORCE some Gov.Lawyer  to come clear up some facts , this is not a stand alone thing where no clear facts are shown …. that is already a indication they don't like to let know  some arrangements …. ah politics...

 

Must understand PM May :" servant for 3 masters "...comes in mind 

 

Let us just wait /…. the truth is as oil in water …. stir it.., shake it … but at rest the oil surfaces ….(read : the truth surfaces..) 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

I agree with that - but like any Pattaya bar bill, I would check that the bill reflects the service received and I make sure the buggers haven’t padded it.

 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

In other words the 39bn is far from "undisputed" - and the 'calculations' have still not been revealed!

 

And tomatcht8 accuses others of being ignorant of the 'facts'.....

 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The 39 billion is part of the May/Merkel surrender treaty, so is not only disputed but has been rejected by the commons three times so far.
Although I’m not a fan of the Parliament trickery at the moment, in this one issue it has performed its function properly. Unlike many of the previous EU treaties, on this occasion a signature from the PM is not enough to sign away the UK’s rights.

Sure, if the current proposal fails, everything is up for discussion again. The two parties may even call a court should they not come to an agreement. 

 

The only question is whether that would be the right priorities or there might be more urging topics to negotiate, namely a future trade agreement. You can dance around 39 bn for three years while every day without a trade agreement in place costs you. 

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Thairealist said:

UK citizens will not need to apply for a Schengen Visa like many other nationalities. On February 1, 2019, the European Council said: “EU ambassadors today agreed that, following Brexit, UK citizens coming to the Schengen area for a short stay (90 days in any 180 days) should be granted visa-free travel.”

That is not strictly the true state of affairs. Technically there is no such thing as "visa free", everyone must have a visa of some sort, but the term is taken to mean no personal application.

Currently the UK is under a visa facilitation agreement with the EU which is effectively a visa issued to member states. When the UK leaves that agreement will come to an end and some form of reciprocal visa waiver arrangement has been proposed, but not yet ratified, and will only be temporary

In 2021 the ETIAS arrangement will come into play and UK travellers like some other countries will have to apply and pay for access to the EU.

 

The EU Commission has confirmed that UK citizens will need to pay a fee to visit Europe after Brexit. From 2021, when British citizens travel to Europe they will need to complete the online ETIAS application form before setting off.

UK citizens will not need to apply for a Schengen Visa like many other nationalities. On February 1, 2019, the European Council said: “EU ambassadors today agreed that, following Brexit, UK citizens coming to the Schengen area for a short stay (90 days in any 180 days) should be granted visa-free travel.”

They also said this is conditional upon the UK granting EU nationals the same benefits. This means British travelers will only be visa-exempt as long as EU citizens can enter the UK without a visa.

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/etias-visa-how-will-it-affect-uk-citizens

[welovesundaysatspace]

From the CNN; can anyone see the irony in his statements? Maybe this makes him understand how people feel about the manipulated opinion poll of 2016. Lovely. 

 

Hardline Brexiteer Mark Francois then made a point of order. "It’s difficult to argue that you’ve had an extremely considered debate when you’ve rammed the bill through the house of Commons in barely four hours," he said. "That is a constitutional outrage."

"It went through in the end by one vote," he added. "That to me does not represent the long-term settled will of the House of Commons."

[evadgib]

As Gina Miller torpedoed the Govt from the onset I'm sure the remain camp will have no objection to this?

 

Respected former appeal judge Sir Richard Aikens has said the way in which the extension was organised is 'highly unsatisfactory' and 'arguably illegal'.

Today, he told MailOnline the legal row over whether the government did act lawfully 'can only be determined by a court.'

He added: 'If the argument... is correct, then it would mean that, under UK law, we left the EU last Friday at 11pm. The Treaties would no longer be binding and the UK would no longer be subject to EU law.

'The argument obviously becomes much more important if there is any attempt at a longer "extension", but, logically, if the argument is correct, then any attempt at a further extension would be a legal nonsense as the UK would already be "out".'

[dick dasterdly]

55 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

 

Sure, if the current proposal fails, everything is up for discussion again. The two parties may even call a court should they not come to an agreement. 

 

The only question is whether that would be the right priorities or there might be more urging topics to negotiate, namely a future trade agreement. You can dance around 39 bn for three years while every day without a trade agreement in place costs you. 

And the eu.....

 

But the point is that a poster was claiming that the 39bn payment was "undisputed", whereas in reality it appears to be a number 'picked from the air' with absolutely no justification.

 

Even if the uk agreed to pay the 39bn, it doesn't include any trade deal!

 

They're all playing silly buggers to keep the uk within the eu.

 

But I could be wrong.  Let's see whether the eu agrees to another extension despite all their protestations that the 12th April is the final deadline unless the eu/may deal is agreed.

[evadgib]

Of particular interest to non brits:

"Yer couldn't make it up!"

[evadgib]

I share the view that the English (the biggest group in the union) should have their own parliament but I must admit that I had never heard of this lot til today:

 

[Loiner]

Time will tell , but isn't it strange that MP  has to FORCE some Gov.Lawyer  to come clear up some facts , this is not a stand alone thing where no clear facts are shown …. that is already a indication they don't like to let know  some arrangements …. ah politics...
 
Must understand PM May :" servant for 3 masters "...comes in mind 
 
Let us just wait /…. the truth is as oil in water …. stir it.., shake it … but at rest the oil surfaces ….(read : the truth surfaces..) 

They had a lot to hide in that document, so no wonder they had to force the GE to account for it....twice, and still no change to it!!!!
The treacherous Remainer MPs are still trying to keep us in, or inextricably tie us to the EU for ever. Whether their 3 masters are the EU, the globalists, a NWO, the Bilderberg Group, or just an ideology indoctrinated in their Oxbridge PPE days matters naught. What Parliament is doing to the country is wrong.
The truth will eventually be out, as the 1975 referendum plot has been exposed only recently.

[RuamRudy]

38 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Of particular interest to non brits:

"Yer couldn't make it up!"

No mention there of the illegality of the Leave campaign which actually brought us to this point? I guess disgraced criminals don't do irony.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

No mention there of the illegality of the Leave campaign which actually brought us to this point? I guess disgraced criminals don't do irony.

??

Has anyone else been charged, imprisoned, released & able to vote while wearing a tag?

[welovesundaysatspace]

57 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

But the point is that a poster was claiming that the 39bn payment was "undisputed", whereas in reality it appears to be a number 'picked from the air' with absolutely no justification.

Since you’ve asked the other poster to prove his claim, can you prove yours that it’s “a number ‘picked from the air’ with absolutely no justification”?

 

I believe it’s what I mentioned before: provably a compromise to get this issue closed fast without lengthy negotiations and court proceedings so that everyone can move on to the more beneficial issue of future trade relationships. Simple prioritization.

 

57 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Even if the uk agreed to pay the 39bn, it doesn't include any trade deal!

Of course not. The financial obligations have to be settled first before trade negotiations can start. Quite understandable; I wouldn’t join a new contract with someone before he has settled his existing obligations. 

 

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, evadgib said:

??

Has anyone else been charged, imprisoned, released & able to vote while wearing a tag?

Even worse than that - the very people who duped you into voting for Brexit have been convicted of breaking the law in the way they duped you. 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-government-will-pay-a-thirty-nine-billion-brexit-divorce-bill-2017-12

 

 

[Loiner]

From the CNN; can anyone see the irony in his statements? Maybe this makes him understand how people feel about the manipulated opinion poll of 2016. Lovely. 
 
Hardline Brexiteer Mark Francois then made a point of order. "It’s difficult to argue that you’ve had an extremely considered debate when you’ve rammed the bill through the house of Commons in barely four hours," he said. "That is a constitutional outrage."
"It went through in the end by one vote," he added. "That to me does not represent the long-term settled will of the House of Commons."

No irony, because there was no manipulation. The electoral commission would have annulled the result if there was. A High Court dismissed a challenge by some group of Remainers last December for “the want of merit”.
If you hadn’t noticed, we are way past that now and have proper legislation through parliament in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, which takes us out of the EU.
The only irony is that some of the MPs who voted for that act, and its predecessor to invoke Article 50, are the same ones referred to above, now trying to usurp what they previously voted for. Turncoats or what?

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Even worse than that - the very people who duped you into voting for Brexit have been convicted of breaking the law in the way they duped you. 

 

 

I believe the reason that the case was dropped is that Vote Leave didn't have the money to fight the case.

[RuamRudy]

I wonder whether our more ardent anti-EU friends will take exception at this particular aspect of the EU meddling in UK affairs:

EU orders UK to recover illegal tax aid from multinationals

BUSINESS NEWS

APRIL 2, 2019 / 1:48 PM 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Britain will have to recover millions of euros from some multinationals after EU antitrust regulators ruled on Tuesday that an exemption in a UK tax scheme was illegal.

 

[david555]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

I wonder whether our more ardent anti-EU friends will take exception at this particular aspect of the EU meddling in UK affairs:

EU orders UK to recover illegal tax aid from multinationals

BUSINESS NEWS

APRIL 2, 2019 / 1:48 PM 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Britain will have to recover millions of euros from some multinationals after EU antitrust regulators ruled on Tuesday that an exemption in a UK tax scheme was illegal.

 

There is also another case hanging about U.K. Gov. authority  hacked  Belgium phone company Proximus ….(half owned by Belgium Government )

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Since you’ve asked the other poster to prove his claim, can you prove yours that it’s “a number ‘picked from the air’ with absolutely no justification”?

 

I believe it’s what I mentioned before: provably a compromise to get this issue closed fast without lengthy negotiations and court proceedings so that everyone can move on to the more beneficial issue of future trade relationships. Simple prioritization.

 

Of course not. The financial obligations have to be settled first before trade negotiations can start. Quite understandable; I wouldn’t join a new contract with someone before he has settled his existing obligations. 

I've no doubt that you prefer to "believe' that - but there is no evidence to support your belief....

 

And don't even start with the 'argument that 39bn has been proven to be the correct amount! (tchomp or whatever his name is) tried this, and it didn't work for anyone paying attention.

 

And trade deals should surely be at the top of the agenda for both sides?

[damascase]

2 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

The EU will grant the delay with glee.

After all, they want the UK in the union.

 

It's all a stitch-up.

They just fake incompetence (on the British side) to confuse the sheeple.

No need to ‘fake’ British incompetence - it is being demonstrated daily.......

[bomber]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Please provide that evidence and not from the toilet in one of your bar hangouts. A credible source or are you just making it up. if so you should remove it.

There you go straight off spoonies bog wall????   why do you still think the majority of europeans want out when its so obvious they dont,yes the far right bulldogs have emerged but nowhere near enough of them,they need a good wife beating footy thug to unite them,step forward tommy 

More than 90% of Irish people want to stay in EU, poll reveals

[bomber]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Of particular interest to non brits:

"Yer couldn't make it up!"

Democracy at work from our great sovereign british MPs and no interference from the EU or germany..i feel proud to be british,i fancy a bulldog tatt on the forehead and unionjack onesie and a visit to spoonies.

[Laughing Gravy]

26 minutes ago, bomber said:

There you go straight off spoonies bog wall????   why do you still think the majority of europeans want out when its so obvious they dont,yes the far right bulldogs have emerged but nowhere near enough of them,they need a good wife beating footy thug to unite them,step forward tommy 

More than 90% of Irish people want to stay in EU, poll reveals 471.35 kB · 1 download

Another quality response providing no evidence again. Where have i said the majOrity of Europeans want out. Again you are making it up. as usual.

 

I am believing you have a picture of Tommy Robinson in your wallet and you have shares in Wetherspoons as you are obsessed with them both.

 

So as with many of your posts you don't provide any evidence and make things up what people say.

I will remind you again.

 

You said that you read somewhere that 90% of people in Eire wanted to stay in the EU. So I asked where did you read this. provide the evidence. Post 260.

 

So I expect nothing, as with all the other posts that people ask for evidence. It is clear that you really are inept.

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

The electoral commission would have annulled the result if there was.

Oh, I thought they found fraud and would in fact have annulled it if it wasn’t just a non-binding opinion poll. 

 

 

[bomber]

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Another quality response providing no evidence again. Where have i said the majOrity of Europeans want out. Again you are making it up. as usual.

 

I am believing you have a picture of Tommy Robinson in your wallet and you have shares in Wetherspoons as you are obsessed with them both.

 

So as with many of your posts you don't provide any evidence and make things up what people say.

I will remind you again.

 

You said that you read somewhere that 90% of people in Eire wanted to stay in the EU. So I asked where did you read this. provide the evidence. Post 260.

 

So I expect nothing, as with all the other posts that people ask for evidence. It is clear that you really are inept.

 

 

For the 2nd time..read the below article for gods sake...or post something that states otherwise

More than 90% of Irish people want to stay in EU, poll reveals

[NanLaew]

On 4/3/2019 at 2:20 PM, sawadee1947 said:

... No, fortunately I'm not the only one. Behind me there are 500 million others from 27 countries.

But if you ask me, for sheer size and numbers, the Australian sheep stations are far, far more impressive.

[welovesundaysatspace]

58 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've no doubt that you prefer to "believe' that - but there is no evidence to support your belief....

The “evidence to support your belief” is common sense. 

 

Quote

And trade deals should surely be at the top of the agenda for both sides?

And BMW surely will push Merkel to push Barnier to surrender. we’ve heard all that before. You should know by now how it will go. Pay first, then we can talk. Even though I wouldn’t be surprised if the UK again decides to dance around for three years and lose more money than just paying their fees. 

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, bomber said:

Cheer up you will be able to vote for tommy and the boys soon...he will make britian great again...it will be a piecec of cake

Britain?

 

With wee Tommy, it winnae be Dundee cake, eh?

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

As Gina Miller torpedoed the Govt from the onset I'm sure the remain camp will have no objection to this?

 

Respected former appeal judge Sir Richard Aikens has said the way in which the extension was organised is 'highly unsatisfactory' and 'arguably illegal'.

Today, he told MailOnline the legal row over whether the government did act lawfully 'can only be determined by a court.'

He added: 'If the argument... is correct, then it would mean that, under UK law, we left the EU last Friday at 11pm. The Treaties would no longer be binding and the UK would no longer be subject to EU law.

'The argument obviously becomes much more important if there is any attempt at a longer "extension", but, logically, if the argument is correct, then any attempt at a further extension would be a legal nonsense as the UK would already be "out".'

As he says, it would be up to a court to decide, the argument appears to be over the extension going before parliament but parliament voted on the 15th March for the PM to request an extension, so I suppose they want to ask the court if that vote constituted parliamentary approval for the extension, bit slim. Government response. 

 

A spokesman for the Department for Exiting the European Union said today: 'As a matter of international law, the date of the UK's exit from the EU was changed following the decision of the EU Council held on 22 March and the exchange of letters between the UK and EU on 25 March. We reflected this change in domestic law when we made the relevant statutory instrument on Thursday 28 March.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6882583/Former-appeal-judge-says-legality-Brexit-extension-tested-court.html

 

I am sure that everyone would want to respect the law and would have had no objection to the referendum being declared null and void on the basis of illegal campaign activity, had it been legally binding. Being advisory there can be no legal challenge, it would be up to parliament and we know how good they are at taking decisions.

[Laughing Gravy]

26 minutes ago, bomber said:

For the 2nd time..read the below article for gods sake...or post something that states otherwise

More than 90% of Irish people want to stay in EU, poll revealsFetching info...

Here is a better link.

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/more-than-90-of-irish-people-want-to-stay-in-eu-poll-reveals-1.3488112

 

The phone poll of 1,000 citizens over 18 was conducted by Red C between March 15th and 21st for the European Movement. 

 

????????That must have taken for ever to call them. Probably all from the same bar. Cheers for that Bomber you have made me laugh so much. I take it back, you have value on this forum. Thank you.