Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

29 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

So there is something that started the universe ,lets call it God , but Jesus or MO or any of the others are just ordinary people ,made up by man to have been sent to " save us" 

They were not "ordinary" people, and may have worked hard to become closer to God. Such people exist today, as has been pointed out many times. There is a long period in Jesus's life which is not in the Bible. He may have been studying to become more aware- any of us can if we want to- during that time. It's called "insight".

They were obviously charismatic and able to attract devoted followers.

Was Jesus God? I don't know, but doubt it, However, he was regarded as a prophet and a worker of miracles at the time. Islam recognizes him as a prophet.

 

sent to " save us" 

More likely a myth made up by followers to start the religion, IMO. Jesus was born a Jew, lived as a Jew, and died a Jew. It was other men that created the religion called Christianity.

 

[mauGR1]

22 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

So there is something that started the universe ,lets call it God , but Jesus or MO or any of the others are just ordinary people ,made up by man to have been sent to " save us" 

I believe that Jesus was an extraordinary man with special powers.

i would define him "close to God", or "image of God".. The definition "son of God" is just a definition, and our vocabulary is not apt to define properly the work and the ideas of God.

"sent to save us" is another incomplete definition, we could as well say that "He's the light to show us the path in a dark night", but it would be another incomplete definition.

Words are powerful, so they should be treated with respect, and a pinch of healthy skepticism imho.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm happy that I was given the ability to see beauty in nature- I never really looked before- but nature is so splendid, that I feel awe when I see something spectacular, awe in the creator that gave us nature and the ability to appreciate it

I see also beauty in the nature and the splendour of many places in the world I was able to visit.

I appreciate all those things without  believing in a creator.

So both of us are happy with the situation, the only difference is the approach we have of it. 

 

 

 

 

[jvs]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm happy the thread existed, as I've changed from agnostic to believer. I guess I always was a believer, but lost my way.

I find this really interesting,what argument or reason you saw here did make you change your mind?

How is this going to impact your life?Are you changing things?

Maybe a little off topic but does it change your view on gun ownership?

I know this is all very personal but i really would like to know.

 

[Tagged]

Im quite surprised modern men and women, still construct their own truth, and basically complicate the whole thing. Pure nature, power and beauty, made up in a mans mind, what it is, and what can it be? 

 

Then all the rules that follows, grow bear, no bear, can not eat, should not do, and it comes down to many natural things for humans as animals, and as be intellectual humans. We are often denied the most precious beautiful natural things, for something that is higher than our self. Then we are forced to so many other things, we should do. 

 

Just watching the Crown, and how the church have impacted their lifes, what a dissaster of wasted time religion can be, in other hand so important for the lost ones. 

[sipi]

I can't be bothered to read 355 pages.

So where are we at?

[ravip]

3 minutes ago, sipi said:

I can't be bothered to read 355 pages.

So where are we at?

Simple. Some believe and some dont!

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, sipi said:

I can't be bothered to read 355 pages.

So where are we at?

Some believe in a "God", others don't.

 

Ravip and myself are agree.

[Tagged]

Just now, luckyluke said:

Some believe in a "God", others don't.

Two literary belivers in the book, then two radical non believers, and the rest with their own imagenary good(s) and images of supernatural powers. 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, sipi said:

I can't be bothered to read 355 pages.

So where are we at?

You're going to burn in hell so best enjoy yourself while you're living... 

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Tagged said:

Two literary belivers in the book, then two radical non believers, and the rest with their own imagenary good(s) and images of supernatural powers. 

The non believers are leading  by one goal, but the Christians are carrying their "good Book" down the sideline and  are threatening with corner shots and eternal burning in hell.

  If the game gets tied it will go on overtime and might even be decided by  penalties or indulgences, Unless of course the Muslim team blows the whole thing up. 

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, sipi said:

I can't be bothered to read 355 pages.

So where are we at?

The non believers are leading  by one goal, but the Christians are carrying their "good Book" down the sideline and  are threatening with corner shots and eternal burning in hell.

  If the game gets tied it will go on overtime and might even be decided by  penalties or indulgences, Unless of course the Muslim team blows the whole thing up. 

[Sunmaster]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:07 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

To everything there is a season.

Everything ends, sooner or later, except perhaps the universe, which IMO is born, expands, falls into a black hole and is reborn.

I'm happy the thread existed, as I've changed from agnostic to believer. I guess I always was a believer, but lost my way.

It's also been interesting, observing different viewpoints, and seeing how many assume a being capable of creating life, the universe and everything is bound by primitive human emotions and laws of science, which is of course a nonsense. Humans are barely out of the cave in cosmic terms and to say that our primitive science is capable of defining God is such arrogance. When humans learn to use the rest of our brain we may have the ability to know God better.

 

I'm happy that I was given the ability to see beauty in nature- I never really looked before- but nature is so splendid, that I feel awe when I see something spectacular, awe in the creator that gave us nature and the ability to appreciate it. So, that's something to be grateful to this thread for.

 

I look forward to many more like it.

 

 

I had a similar experience. Writing here made me realize it was high time to (re)start practicing again, because knowledge without practice is like faith without direct experience. 

Like I mentioned in December, I went to check out a TM (Transcendental Meditation) presentation in Bkk. TM makes seems very practical and easy to learn. They advertise the meditation as 'mental technique', highlighting the physical and mental/emotional benefits that are supported by lots of scientific research. 
What I missed though was the spiritual aspect. TM is a form of yoga created by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, but in their presentations they keep the spiritual part to a minimum. I think they don't want to scare away prospective new members. That, and the fact that they charge good money for being introduced into their system, made me rethink. It just didn't resonate with me.

The devotional aspect is important in my opinion, so I started to re-read one of my all time favourite books: "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED). This rekindled my love for this teacher and helped me to establish a daily meditation practice (Kriya Yoga) of 20 minutes each, one in the morning, one in the afternoon/evening. Best decision ever! Been doing it for nearly a month now without fail...baby steps.

I won't go into details here, but suffice to say that I'm always looking forward to the next session. 

[VincentRJ]

I'm not sure I've learned anything new, reading this thread, although it's been interesting. I've always been interested in the general topic of religions and spirituality. I've read, over the years, quite a bit of the Christian Bible, both New and Old Testaments, parts of the Quran, and a few books on Yoga and Buddhism.

 

I had an interesting time when I spent a week or so at a Yoga Retreat in Rishikesh, on the upper Ganges river in India, in 1962. I shared a room there with another European traveler who refused to speak to me because he was on a vow of silence. ????

 

When I continued on my travels and arrived at Varanasi, I was very impressed to see a Yogi sitting on the river bank of the Ganges, who looked very elderly. I asked the locals how old he was. They replied he was in his late 90's, close to 100. I can't be sure if that was true, but I was very impressed when the Yogi arose from his sitting position to walk back to his temple. He walked perfectly upright without stooping at all, and walked calmly and firmly with no tottering.

 

I said to myself, 'That's how I want to be when I'm in my 90's'. ????

 

When I arrived in Bangkok, with very little money, I stayed at Wat Mahathat. In return for the free accommodation, I taught English to a class of 20 or so monks. I recall I had lots of fun with one of the monks who had great difficulty pronouncing the word 'probably'. He couldn't progress beyond 'plobably', no matter how many times he tried. ????

 

Years later, when I got an office job in the Public Service, dealing with accounts and regulations which were all new to me, my mind became so stressed with all the complications I decided to practice standing on my head for 10 or 15 minutes every lunch time, in a Yoga position. The extra blood flow to my head definitely cleared my mind and had a calming effect.

 

In summary, I would say that for me, health is the most important consideration, and health does not just include wholesome food and regular exercise, but a healthy and calm mind. Spiritual exercises, whether Yoga or Buddhist meditation, can have an important role in developing a healthy mind, free of pointless worry and anxiety.

 

I don't believe in a 'Creator God', but I can easily imagine that a belief in another 'eternal' life in 'Heaven' after this one, as a reward for good behaviour, could be very comforting for some people, but very upsetting for others who imagine they have seriously sinned, and might not be sure if they will be forgiven.

 

I'm reminded of a very sad story about an Aboriginal who had been converted to Christianity. After having read, and believing in, the following verse from Mathew 18.9: "And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter eternal life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire", he literally plucked out one of his eyes because he had lusted after another woman. ????
 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:19 PM, jvs said:

I find this really interesting,what argument or reason you saw here did make you change your mind?

How is this going to impact your life?Are you changing things?

Maybe a little off topic but does it change your view on gun ownership?

I know this is all very personal but i really would like to know.

 

Oh dear, what an enormous deflection.

Gun ownership- I learned to use rifles in the military. I'm a marksman and an instructor. I used a rifle to kill rabbits on the farm ( legally for pest control ) and to kill seals to feed the dogs in Antarctica ( legally, by international agreement ). I didn't enjoy killing them, and I don't hunt as a sport as some do.

I also did target shooting which I found an agreeable way to spend some of my leisure time.

I DIDN'T have an overwhelming desire to go out and kill schoolchildren etc.

Whatever, gun ownership is nothing to do with believing in a creator. The creator does not hold all life precious- untold billions of organisms on planet Earth kill each other every day to survive, asteroids destroy entire species in an instant, planets die all the time, the universe and every living thing in it will die eventually.

 

what argument or reason you saw here did make you change your mind?

I didn't change my mind.

I said "I guess I always was a believer, but lost my way." The discussion on the thread made me examine my beliefs more deeply was all.

Have I changed my life- no, as I was already living as good a life as I could.

What has changed is that I love nature more than before.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:28 PM, Tagged said:

Im quite surprised modern men and women, still construct their own truth, and basically complicate the whole thing. Pure nature, power and beauty, made up in a mans mind, what it is, and what can it be? 

 

Then all the rules that follows, grow bear, no bear, can not eat, should not do, and it comes down to many natural things for humans as animals, and as be intellectual humans. We are often denied the most precious beautiful natural things, for something that is higher than our self. Then we are forced to so many other things, we should do. 

 

Just watching the Crown, and how the church have impacted their lifes, what a dissaster of wasted time religion can be, in other hand so important for the lost ones. 

I assume you meant bearD.

 

Why is it that after all the discussion you still bring up religion? Religion is nothing to do with faith, being a man made organisation to benefit the men in funny hats.

Having faith does not oblige me to do anything except live a life as good as I can and do no harm.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I had a similar experience. Writing here made me realize it was high time to (re)start practicing again, because knowledge without practice is like faith without direct experience. 

Like I mentioned in December, I went to check out a TM (Transcendental Meditation) presentation in Bkk. TM makes seems very practical and easy to learn. They advertise the meditation as 'mental technique', highlighting the physical and mental/emotional benefits that are supported by lots of scientific research. 
What I missed though was the spiritual aspect. TM is a form of yoga created by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, but in their presentations they keep the spiritual part to a minimum. I think they don't want to scare away prospective new members. That, and the fact that they charge good money for being introduced into their system, made me rethink. It just didn't resonate with me.

The devotional aspect is important in my opinion, so I started to re-read one of my all time favourite books: "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED). This rekindled my love for this teacher and helped me to establish a daily meditation practice (Kriya Yoga) of 20 minutes each, one in the morning, one in the afternoon/evening. Best decision ever! Been doing it for nearly a month now without fail...baby steps.

I won't go into details here, but suffice to say that I'm always looking forward to the next session. 

If one's conscience tells one that something is wrong, it probably is. Likewise, if one feels that something is good, it probably is.

The creator gave us a conscience to guide us when times are confusing and dark.

I don't think cows or sheep or lions have a conscience. The difference between man and animals is that we don't <deleted> anywhere, because we can learn the difference between right and wrong.

[luckyluke]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear, what an enormous deflection.

Gun ownership- I learned to use rifles in the military. I'm a marksman and an instructor. I used a rifle to kill rabbits on the farm ( legally for pest control ) and to kill seals to feed the dogs in Antarctica ( legally, by international agreement ). I didn't enjoy killing them, and I don't hunt as a sport as some do.

I also did target shooting which I found an agreeable way to spend some of my leisure time.

I DIDN'T have an overwhelming desire to go out and kill schoolchildren etc.

Whatever, gun ownership is nothing to do with believing in a creator. The creator does not hold all life precious- untold billions of organisms on planet Earth kill each other every day to survive, asteroids destroy entire species in an instant, planets die all the time, the universe and every living thing in it will die eventually.

 

what argument or reason you saw here did make you change your mind?

I didn't change my mind.

I said "I guess I always was a believer, but lost my way." The discussion on the thread made me examine my beliefs more deeply was all.

Have I changed my life- no, as I was already living as good a life as I could.

What has changed is that I love nature more than before.

In fact, it seems to me, you are a complete average individual like so many others.  

You choose to "believe" and practising "things" in order to be happy-feeling good.-being in harmony with the nature.

Fine

Others, as myself, are happy/felt good/in affinity with nature, without a "belief" or/and practising "stuff".

Fine for us too.

 

 

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

In fact, it seems to me, you are a complete average individual like so many others.  

You choose to "believe" and practising "things" in order to be happy-feeling good.-being in harmony with the nature.

Fine

Others, as myself, are happy/felt good/in affinity with nature, without a "belief" or/and practising "stuff".

Fine for us too.

 

 

But, but, isn't the fact that one can choose in which way to be happy (or unhappy) the evidence that we have at least 2 kinds of "self", which implies that we can have "higher" thoughts and "lower" thoughts, which implies that there are "superior" thought-beings, which reflect their thoughts in the wonderful order of the universe, which is the "writing" of "something" infinitely bigger than us ?

Or it just happened "by chance" ?

[luckyluke]

^

This is one approach of the "events".

You don't believe in "chance".

Fair enough.

Others have a different opinion.

No opinion is better or worse.

Each of us has is own way to experience happiness.

No pad to reach it is better or worse.

 

[Skeptic7]

On 1/17/2020 at 10:44 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Having faith does not oblige me to do anything except live a life as good as I can and do no harm.

Which can be done without faith. Faith is not a prerequisite to leading a good life and doing no harm, nor appreciation of nature and beauty. 

[AsianAtHeart]

Some here have posted wonderings about the nature of God; and while God is beyond our finite understanding, and His full nature is not revealed to us, there are aspects that we do know from Scripture.  On the parts that are not revealed, I believe silence is golden.  But for those who have not carefully pieced together the details of that which has been given us, the following may be of interest.

Allow me to summarize first, then explain more below.

1) God is one (one single Being). (See Deuteronomy 6:4.)
2) God is not human, nor can humanity be God.
3) Jesus Christ was BOTH human and God, at one and the same time, and yet these two entities were not lost (merged) in each other.

Before explaining further, let us keep a few things in mind:

-- God is eternal, and cannot die (see Deuteronomy 33:27; 1 Timothy 1:17).
-- God is everywhere present (omnipresent) (see Psalm 139:7-10).
-- God is unchanging (see Malachi 3:6).
-- God knows the future just as clearly as He knows the past, and can tell what will happen in the end from the beginning (see Isaiah 46:10).

Now, on the cross, Christ died.  God, being immortal, cannot die--but it was the humanity of Christ which died, not His divinity.  His divinity was that which raised His humanity to life on the third day.  Jesus Himself had said that He would raise Himself in this manner.   

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.  Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?  But he spake of the temple of his body."  (John 2:19-21)

Notice that in that passage He does not say that His Father would raise Him up--He says "I will raise it up."  That His humanity was not His full identity is also referred to in Hebrews 10:5 which says: "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me."  "A body" had been prepared for Him.  He had not had a body before, because "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).

Essentially, Jesus Christ was not merely a prophet.  He was not merely human.  He was both human and divine.  In His humanity, He taught mankind how to live, and how to know God better.  In His humanity, He was tempted, and endured the temptation, as our Example ("God cannot be tempted with evil" -- James 1:13). In His humanity, He died for us a most agonizing and heart-rending death--all that we might be drawn to Him for salvation.  But in His divinity, He taught the principles of God's kingdom and showed us the way to Heaven.  In His divinity, He conquered the grave, and is now our faithful Guide and Companion.  Some refer to the Holy Spirit--that is Christ's divinity.  The Spirit is not limited to a single location by a human body, and can be present with everyone everywhere.

Isaiah 9:6 tells us the identity of the "child" or "son" that was to be given us: "the everlasting Father."  Jesus was both "son" and "Father" at one and the same time.  He taught this as well.  "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." (John 14:10)  God, the Father (see 1 Corinthians 8:6), was in Christ.

 

[Tagged]

11 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Some here have posted wonderings about the nature of God; and while God is beyond our finite understanding, and His full nature is not revealed to us, there are aspects that we do know from Scripture.  On the parts that are not revealed, I believe silence is golden.  But for those who have not carefully pieced together the details of that which has been given us, the following may be of interest.

 

 

Knock knock ?

 

you never doubt the scripts to be made by ordinary people with great time to construct a reality far above our imaginations. 

 

Thank you for reading

[yodsak]

On 1/1/2020 at 9:17 PM, Tagged said:

@AsianAtHeart Before sin animals was vegetarian!? No they where not Mr Biologist, you just trolling as good you can! Not a sane human will state anything alike.

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, yodsak said:

Well schoolars have changed the timeline quite a bit when it comes to Adam and Eve, but it is a waste of time to present the news. 

[AsianAtHeart]

54 minutes ago, yodsak said:

It's my understanding that God did not create the dinosaurs.  Dinosaurs were created by the antediluvians, who were much more intelligent than we are today, through a form of genetic engineering.  Whereas today we splice and dice genes in a laboratory, they may have had the advantage of simply cross-breeding between animals of different kinds who still had such vitality from their original creation as to produce viable amalgamated offspring.  When God brought the Flood upon the earth, He did not preserve these beasts which He had not made.  Had He done so, it is quite possible that mankind would have been overpowered by them, and the movie "Jurassic Park" could have had an almost literal enactment.

[mauGR1]

5 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

It's my understanding that God did not create the dinosaurs.  Dinosaurs were created by the antediluvians, who were much more intelligent than we are today, through a form of genetic engineering.  Whereas today we splice and dice genes in a laboratory, they may have had the advantage of simply cross-breeding between animals of different kinds who still had such vitality from their original creation as to produce viable amalgamated offspring.  When God brought the Flood upon the earth, He did not preserve these beasts which He had not made.  Had He done so, it is quite possible that mankind would have been overpowered by them, and the movie "Jurassic Park" could have had an almost literal enactment.

Interesting theory, not yet proven, of course.

Have you ever heard about "the book of Enoch" ?

As far as i know it contains old "legends" which, for some reason were omitted from the Bible.

[luckyluke]

On 1/19/2020 at 12:42 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

Essentially, Jesus Christ was not merely a prophet.  He was not merely human.  He was both human and divine.  In His humanity, He taught mankind how to live, and how to know God better. 

Assuming this is correct, it seems that He wasn't that successful. 

There are roughly 7.5 billion people in the world, 

Something like 2 billion are Christians. 

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Assuming this is correct, it seems that He wasn't that successful. 

There are roughly 7.5 billion people in the world, 

Something like 2 billion are Christians. 

2 billion may come from countries that proclaim themselves Christian. More likely 2 million actual Christians that live according to the words of Jesus.

Jesus didn't come to start Christianity- what are you on about? He was a Jew and a religious teacher that may have performed miracles.

[luckyluke]

^

All a bit confusing for me. 

 

I maintain that "religion/believe..." is not within reach of everyone. 

 

But certainly not essential to be happy or/and in peace with oneself, while being in harmony and enjoying nature.