"Need Passport to Top up BTS Card"

[Crossy]

Just now, Letseng said:

..(so your return ticket won't work)..

It has worked since the silly rule came into force. Odd, isn't it?

Different routes/operators won't be a problem for me. I only ever travel the same route rtn twice/week.

For all other trips I prefer to sit in an aircon taxi from door to door.

 

Different operators won't be a problem for YOU, it will be a problem for the operators (and getting their money) which is why, once Pink etc go into service, the use only at station of issue rule is needed and will be turned on.

 

 

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Letseng said:

"You also have to show your passport even to buy a stamp to send a letter overseas."

 

Never needed to show p.p. in 16 years.

 

 

When did you last send an EMS item overseas? No need for PP if it's regular airmail.

[windas]

I dont recall having to show ID for a BTS rabbit card many years ago, so it must be a new thing.

I assume it is so that recipients can be tracked through the BTS system if need be. Big brother watching.

 

John K

[Letseng]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

When did you last send an EMS item overseas? No need for PP if it's regular airmail.

Just recently to Singapore. May be this doesn't count as "overseas"?

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, windas said:

I dont recall having to show ID for a BTS rabbit card many years ago, so it must be a new thing.

I assume it is so that recipients can be tracked through the BTS system if need be. Big brother watching.

 

Yes it's recent.

 

If you read my posts on the subject, both here and in the other threads you will understand that it's nothing to do with either Rabbit or BTS. Your card is already tracked and the data held for a considerable period but your personal details are not held in the same database.

 

Of course, if the authorities need to know where you have been as a result of an investigation it's not rocket science to provide such detail.

[Bangkok Barry]

23 minutes ago, Letseng said:

"You also have to show your passport even to buy a stamp to send a letter overseas."

 

Never needed to show p.p. in 16 years.

 

 

There is a thread on this site from several months ago about this, and a friend of mine was asked to show his passport to send a Christmas card to the UK. I wonder if it was the same post office in Bangkok where I wanted to post something to Kalasin and the girl wanted to know what country it's in. I know that Thais have little to no knowledge about the world outside Thailand, but not even knowing a Thai province? In a post office? Staggering.

[Skeptic7]

While all this new crazy BS doesn't surprise me in the least...nothing silly/stoopid surprises me here...just topped up the other day and was not asked for PP. Prob next time, so thanks for the warning. 

[Letseng]

3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

While all this new crazy BS doesn't surprise me in the least...nothing silly/stoopid surprises me here...just topped up the other day and was not asked for PP. Prob next time, so thanks for the warning. 

No p.p. needed once you have registered.

[petedk]

On 4/18/2019 at 12:33 PM, Crossy said:

 

Yes to register, then you don't need ID to top up.

 

Today I tried to top up my BTS card at Thong Lor and without even checking whether it was registered or not was asked for my passport. I explained that I had shown it before but was told quite simply "No passport. No Top up." 

 

I only wanted to put 100 baht on to save time queuing up next time I use it. 

[Crossy]

45 minutes ago, petedk said:

Today I tried to top up my BTS card at Thong Lor and without even checking whether it was registered or not was asked for my passport. I explained that I had shown it before but was told quite simply "No passport. No Top up." 

 

I only wanted to put 100 baht on to save time queuing up next time I use it. 

 

Evidently poor training, you do should not need your PP once you have been registered.

 

Just try another station.

 

[userabcd]

1 hour ago, petedk said:

Today I tried to top up my BTS card at Thong Lor and without even checking whether it was registered or not was asked for my passport. I explained that I had shown it before but was told quite simply "No passport. No Top up." 

 

I only wanted to put 100 baht on to save time queuing up next time I use it. 

Surprised they did not ask you to provide proof of the source of your 100 baht.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Surprised they did not ask you to provide proof of the source of your 100 baht.

 

Shh, don't give them ideas.

 

[kkerry]

17 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Surprised they did not ask you to provide proof of the source of your 100 baht.

Request for evidence of health and accident insurance probably coming sooner rather than later the way things are going.

 

No request for passport when topping up my MRT card yesterday. Is it because you can't use it to make purchases like you can with a Rabbit Card? 

 

BTW I see a number of new industrial strength pedestrian walkways almost completed for the new line along Vivhavadi Rangsit at Laksi etc. so that is something I suppose.

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, kkerry said:

Is it because you can't use it to make purchases like you can with a Rabbit Card? 

 

That is my understanding.

 

[petedk]

14 hours ago, userabcd said:

Surprised they did not ask you to provide proof of the source of your 100 baht.

I saw a lady drop it in the supermarket. What more can I say?

I didn't get her number.

 

Jokes aside. I am thinking of using Line Pay or Line Wallet (whatever it is called) but I read that you can only use a Thai ID number. Is that correct?

[petedk]

15 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Evidently poor training, you do should not need your PP once you have been registered.

 

Just try another station.

 

Yes I will. I usually top up AFTER I get off the train when the queues are shorter. 

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, petedk said:

I'm thinking of using Line Pay or Line Wallet (whatever it is called) but I read that you can only use a Thai ID number. Is that correct?

No. Staff at the line kiosk in the BTS can switch your rabbit card across so it's linked to line pay. You should get 3 free trips and about a dozen discount promotions too. Need your passport. 

[kkerry]

Wanted to add some credit yesterday to a Rabbit card I use mainly to pay for coffee. I was asked for my passport and what to my old ears sounded like "plus a copy of your security clearance" ???  I didn't have my passport on me so didn't bother confirming what she asked and walked off. A short time later I added credit on two Rabbit cards at another station without an issue, despite a sticker on the counter indicating a passport was required... pretty much like how opening a bank account used to be... cannot at the first branch so try other branches until you get what you want ????

[bbi1]

It's not true, you don't need anything but your cash to top up a Rabbit Card. At least it wasn't true a month ago when I topped up mine!

[CygnusX1]

I had to show my passport to top up at Phrom Phong BTS 2 weeks ago, as I hadn’t yet registered it on their system. Grateful to OP and other forum members who forewarned me, saved me a bit of hassle, as otherwise I wouldn’t have had my passport with me on that day.

[Fex Bluse]

On 4/18/2019 at 12:23 PM, Crossy said:

This is being reported all over, including Thaivisa. All Emoney instruments must be registered just like your mobile. 

 

This is a government initiative and also applies to those who have a SevenEleven card.

 

You only need to register once, then reloads will be as normal.

They have handled it poorly, as with everything they do. 

 

A smarter alternative would have been to issue separate cards: one card that could be used to purchase goods and another card that is used only for the BTS (that would not fall under this AML regime). 

 

The lines now are outrageous. You have surprised tourists fumbling around for their passports and Slow Loris Thais entering the details into machines. 

 

The whole thing is idiotic 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

They have handled it poorly, as with everything they do. 

 

A smarter alternative would have been to issue separate cards: one card that could be used to purchase goods and another card that is used only for the BTS (that would not fall under this AML regime). 

 

The lines now are outrageous. You have surprised tourists fumbling around for their passports and Slow Loris Thais entering the details into machines. 

 

The whole thing is idiotic 

Do you even use the BTS?  Where are these outrageous lines of people entering things into a machine?  Never seen them.  They don't exist.  

 

I use the BTS every single day.  I usually top up 1,000 baht and have always had my passport with me.  I think I did five top ups at various places until I was finally asked to register the card.  He took my passport, and one minute later I had it back with my card - all he did was enter my name and passport number into the system.  I didn't have to do anything.

 

Where are all these "slow loris Thais" entering details into machines?   Somewhere other than your imagination please.
 

[Fex Bluse]

4 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Do you even use the BTS?  Where are these outrageous lines of people entering things into a machine?  Never seen them.  They don't exist.  

 

I use the BTS every single day.  I usually top up 1,000 baht and have always had my passport with me.  I think I did five top ups at various places until I was finally asked to register the card.  He took my passport, and one minute later I had it back with my card - all he did was enter my name and passport number into the system.  I didn't have to do anything.

 

Where are all these "slow loris Thais" entering details into machines?   Somewhere other than your imagination please.
 

Perhaps you have little of importance to do, so you don't mind inefficiency. 

 

If I tell you how much my time is worth, I suspect you'll be incredulous and demand to see proof. 

 

Anyway, there are plenty of Thais who have made complaints similar to mine.

 

Is my argument OK now? Now that a Thai made it? ????

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

Perhaps you have little of importance to do, so you don't mind inefficiency. 

 

If I tell you how much my time is worth, I suspect you'll be incredulous and demand to see proof. 

 

Anyway, there are plenty of Thais who have made complaints similar to mine.

 

Is my argument OK now? Now that a Thai made it? ????

Congratulations on being so wealthy and important.

But you didn't answer any of my questions.  Where are these huge lines caused by people registering?  Where are these slow loris Thais typing into machines?  And do you actually use the BTS?

Registration is a one off event and takes no more than a minute.  I know because I have done it unlike, I suspect, you.

[Fex Bluse]

7 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Congratulations on being so wealthy and important.

But you didn't answer any of my questions.  Where are these huge lines caused by people registering?  Where are these slow loris Thais typing into machines?  And do you actually use the BTS?

Registration is a one off event and takes no more than a minute.  I know because I have done it unlike, I suspect, you.

Thanks. I worked hard for what I have accomplished. 

 

I also take the BTS nearly everyday I'm in Bangkok. 

 

I am all over the city during rush hours, moving from one meeting to the next. 

 

You can imagine any stations where tourists end up in large numbers will add even more time to already long lines in what is already a very poorly designed and inefficient system. 

 

You say it took you about a minute (I know, roughly estimating). If you do the math, even limiting to the tourists per day wanting a BTS card to move about the city, you get an idea for how long a full MINUTE is. 

 

A minute to transact at a BTS counter during rush hour is ATROCIUS ????

[Crossy]

16 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

You can imagine any stations where tourists end up in large numbers will add even more time to already long lines in what is already a very poorly designed and inefficient system. 

 

As a traffic/transit management and planning expert perhaps you could tell us exactly how you would improve the BTS.

 

Please set an estimated budget and indicate a source of funding.

 

Also consider that the system was designed (by Germans) in the early 90s and will have been designed down to a price (it always is). You will need to detail exactly what systems you will upgrade.

 

The BTS isn't perfect by a long way, but it carries a lot of happy passengers who would otherwise be sitting in the gridlock.

 

EDIT It's also worth noting that tourists tend to use single-ride tickets or the three-day pass, only longer term tourists buy a Rabbit.

 

You don't even need to visit a ticket office to top up your Rabbit, link it to Line-Pay and ride without delay, ever (until there's a "technical fault" and the trains come to a grinding halt).

 

[Fex Bluse]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

As a traffic/transit management and planning expert perhaps you could tell us exactly how you would improve the BTS.

 

Please set an estimated budget and indicate a source of funding.

 

Also consider that the system was designed (by Germans) in the early 90s and will have been designed down to a price (it always is). You will need to detail exactly what systems you will upgrade.

 

The BTS isn't perfect by a long way, but it carries a lot of happy passengers who would otherwise be sitting in the gridlock.

 

EDIT It's also worth noting that tourists tend to use single-ride tickets or the three-day pass, only longer term tourists buy a Rabbit.

 

You don't even need to visit a ticket office to top up your Rabbit, link it to Line-Pay and ride without delay, ever (until there's a "technical fault" and the trains come to a grinding halt).

 

Great, let's engage.

I will go easy on you as my goal is not to embarrass you.

No reason for us to get cross ????

 

1st

Your appeal to authority (expertise or perceived lack thereof) is what is known as a logical fallacy.

I don't need to be an "expert" to offer valid opinions or critiques.

Argument falls down.

 

2nd

You have attempted to thwart any ridicule by suggestion Farangs (Germans, in this case) designed it all which is demonstrably false.

Have you read the history of the BTS?

It was a collaboration between many parties including Thais, Canadians, Germans, Italians and others.

There should be no mistake that the Thais as dominant shareholders and financiers made final approvals for all work. 

Argument falls down.

 

3rd

You have attempted deflect any ridicule by implicit suggestion that price should take some of the blame.

This argument is only marginally effective considering how much political interference and corruption was involved in the numerous failed attempts from the 80s and then finally in the commissioning of the actual system later.

Any system has budget constraints but that does not excuse it from making poor design and build choices. 

Argument falls down.

 

4th

You asked how I would improve the system. 

 

To answer this, I will keep my recommendations very simple so that everyone can understand that one need not be an expert to make valid critiques.

 

A. Ticketing machines should NOT be placed where ingress and egress lines normally form?

They should be out of the way.

Look no further than Asoke station for a stunningly poor example of design.

Of course, it would have been easier for the BTS to move the ticketing kiosks/machines if the stations were not flooded with vendors further constricting the walkways.

Alas, Thai culture took over -- same as they constrict walkways around the city/country with vendors selling cheap garbage.

 

B. Inside the trains, the visual station updates should be large and clear enough for passengers to see 

* what station they are stopped at and

* what the next station will be

In both case, the system is inadequate.

 

C. Related to B., when the car doors open, it should be easily visible what station the train has stopped at, but, as you may know, it often not the case as the station signs are not properly placed and not frequent enough.

 

D. For tourists in particular, rather than using the stations' TV screens for running childish adverts, the stations could dedicate at least one large screen to displaying instructions for how to purchase tickets at the kiosks or window, including a note about the passport requirement.

Rather than forcing people to try to figure it all out at the poorly done ticketing machines interface.

 

E. The station guards are ever-present and will not miss an opportunity to blow their whistle for people who touch beyond the platform borders.

However, when the number of people entering the platform is so high that people are stumbling to get off the escalators as there is no room, these whistle guys (as well as any other coordinating staff) are nowhere to be found. 

If the whole idea is safety, then the BTS staff should be VERY concerned.

However, like most things in Thailand, I suspect the Whistle Men are more about form over function -- or the below term, if you are familiar with Thai culture.

สร้างภาพ

saangF phaapF

to imagine; create a mental image

 

F. As a bonus and deflect any attempts to criticize my arguments just out of a sheer will to protect Thais against Farang critique, here are a list of suggested improvements FROM A THAI. 

I always enjoy this tactic because it makes it really hard for people who prefer defending a group of people (even in the face of overwhelming evidence of incompetence) to do so without really, really explaining their positions.

Thai Criticism Here: https://coconuts.co/bangkok/features/off-rails-9-ways-bts-improved-now/

Farang Criticism Here: http://www.gregtodiffer.com/dangerous-crowds-on-the-bts/

Edited June 29, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[Crossy]

The points above are well taken, I only wish it were so simple to actually achieve (as you rightly note Thai culture comes in to play).

 

There is no doubt that the core system stations are way too small, but we have what we have and there's little scope for expansion. Asoke is indeed particularly nasty having had several additions at the Asoke Junction end. It was barely adequate when it opened and the MRT connection only served to make it worse. Add T21 and it's friends and you have a passenger flow disaster. What to do?

 

If you ride the extension past Samrong (Samrong itself is a bit of an oddball being island platform) you will hopefully notice a lot of design improvements, particularly around queues and space generally, it's still not perfect mind. Also all the new stations have platform edge doors for improved safety.

 

How would you improve the ticket machine interface? Remember we are restricted to the existing screen size and resolution. I am VERY interested in your (and others) thoughts on this.

 

The new (Chinese and Turkish [Siemens]) trains have a much improved passenger information system, it's still rubbish but better than nothing.

 

Point taken on signage, sadly improvements are awfully slow.

 

It's refreshing that you've made none of the usual comments "just add some cars/trains" type of thing, you caught me out there somewhat ????  Do you believe that the service itself is adequate and that improvements in getting passengers on and off the trains will make matters better.

 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

How would you improve the ticket machine interface?

 

Add contactless payment.

 

I know that would incur fees, but if a deal has been done with Line Pay then a deal can be done with a payment processor.

 

Once that idea has gained acceptance point out they don't even need the ticketing machines as part of the process - you can add contactless payments to the entrance barriers.

 

Oh wait... That makes rabbit cards obsolete.

[Fex Bluse]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

What to do?

While I can acknowledge your point that basically many forces conspire to make certain matters worse, I do not accept the "what to do?", fatalistic, spiritual nonsense type attitude - that is VERY common amongst Thais. 

 

They simultaneously pretend that 1. Thailand is the best at almost everything and 2. things in can't be done better anyway because of any number of reasons, but mostly because they are of an arguable flawed culture, in this specific respect. Much cognitive dissonance in their psychology. 

 

If I were answering, for instance, a Thai person who I cared about enough to offer an honest answer and who is in a position of authority or at least of reasonable intellect, I would offer the following suggestions. 

 

1. Long-term: Encourage critical thinking and minimization of the godforsaken arrogance (and incompetence) that plagues the culture 

 

2. Mid-term: Decrease poor decision making. Outcomes are reasonably under your control and mostly a result of actions by you. The next decisions you make, endeavor to think them through rigorously and even ask people (maybe non Thai) who seem to have done things better (say Japan or Singapore or Hong Kong or or or). 

 

3. Short-term: stop some of the bleeding by moving vendors around (or out), reclaiming needed space and reconfiguring some of the worst stations. Implement some of the other obvious remedies I mentioned. Just generally be smarter and less lackadaisical. 

 

Easy