Welding Nubee

[Crossy]

59 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

but the machine ends look to be rather different and may not be at all simple and maybe impossible.

 

Amazingly our local magic shop (hardware store) has the machine end fittings with screw clamp terminals, typically they don't have the cable or torch/earth fittings. 

 

3 minutes ago, wayned said:

I'm okay with heavy steel such as farm equipment and have been doing it a long time but when I try to weld thin crap it ends up looking like Swiss cheese.

 

I always found MIG to be a zillion times easier on thin (car body) stuff. For the slightly thicker stuff we use to build chicken houses etc. I'm afraid I just fill the holes up with weld, the angle-grinder and paint covers a multitude of evils  

[wayned]

Just now, Crossy said:

 

Amazingly our local magic shop (hardware store) has the machine end fittings with screw clamp terminals, typically they don't have the cable or torch/earth fittings. 

 

 

I always found MIG to be a zillion times easier on thin (car body) stuff. For the slightly thicker stuff we use to build chicken houses etc. I'm afraid I just fill the holes up with weld, the angle-grinder and paint covers a multitude of evils  

Never tried MIG.  If it's small enough to fit in the truck I just make a drawing or take the part that needs repair to to local shop in town.  A few years ago I modified all of the security bar on the windows in my house so that they would swing open (wash windows).  That was a real treat welding barrel hinges to 1" box that had been there for 17 years.  A lot of "Swiss Cheese " filler and grinding disks.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

but the machine ends look to be rather different and may not be at all simple and maybe impossible.

 

Amazingly our local magic shop (hardware store) has the machine end fittings with screw clamp terminals, typically they don't have the cable or torch/earth fittings. 

That's really good to know. I haven't looked for cables with the screw fittings as my original ones are perfectly OK.

 

Are you saying that there are replacement terminals with clamp fittings so you fit any length cable?

 

As to the Earth clamp and and electrode clamp I think my good ones came from Global House, DoHome, or Thai Wasted I don't remember exactly which.

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

I always found MIG to be a zillion times easier on thin (car body) stuff. For the slightly thicker stuff we use to build chicken houses etc. I'm afraid I just fill the holes up with weld, the angle-grinder and paint covers a multitude of evils  

I would love to get a MIG but as far as I've seen the very few that are available are over 25,000 Baht and while probably a reasonably OK price for the machine it's not a price I can possibly justify. 

 

I am with you on the benefits of the angle grinder and paint, though I seemed to just make the burn through worse and holes bigger.  Up to now I've just got thick (5mm) wall sections that I have difficulty burning through  

 

I'm now looking forward to giving the 2mm rods I just got a try. My welder nebour said that they are excellent, he just used them on some quite thin galvanised C section.

[wayned]

Just now, sometimewoodworker said:

Are you saying that there are replacement terminals with clamp fittings so you fit any length cable?

They are usually available at the local welding supply shop.  I made a set of 20 meter cables when I built my house.  I also have a set of 10 meter jumper cables that I made out of 35mm² welding cable.

[Crossy]

5 hours ago, wayned said:

I also have a set of 10 meter jumper cables that I made out of 35mm² welding cable.

 

Great minds think alike ????

 

[mogandave]

I would love to get a MIG but as far as I've seen the very few that are available are over 25,000 Baht and while probably a reasonably OK price for the machine it's not a price I can possibly justify. 
 
I am with you on the benefits of the angle grinder and paint, though I seemed to just make the burn through worse and holes bigger.  Up to now I've just got thick (5mm) wall sections that I have difficulty burning through  
 
I'm now looking forward to giving the 2mm rods I just got a try. My welder nebour said that they are excellent, he just used them on some quite thin galvanised C section.

You be able to get a decent gasless MIG welder for ~฿10K.

That said, for low volume light gage welding a decent oxyacetylene outfit is great, and it also gives you the capability to cut, heat and braze.

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, mogandave said:

You be able to get a decent gasless MIG welder for ~฿10K.

That said, for low volume light gage welding a decent oxyacetylene outfit is great, and it also gives you the capability to cut, heat and braze.

 

 

I'm interested in MIG (Metal Inert Gas) and gasless isn't that. Having looked everywhere that I can find (I will not buy without viewing something like that) there is nothing under 25,000 Baht and precious few above.

 

As to oxyacetylene, acetylene may be available somewhere (I did some brazing and cutting using that about 45 years ago) but I've never seen or heard of anyone using it here. 

[mogandave]

I'm interested in MIG (Metal Inert Gas) and gasless isn't that. Having looked everywhere that I can find (I will not buy without viewing something like that) there is nothing under 25,000 Baht and precious few above.
 
As to oxyacetylene, acetylene may be available somewhere (I did some brazing and cutting using that about 45 years ago) but I've never seen or heard of anyone using it here. 

You would have to go to welding supply that sells gasses, but acetylene is available. Plasma and Oxy-LP is much more common here for cutting, but acetylene is much better for welding, and is much better (albeit slower) than plasma for cutting thick steel. We have an outfit at the plant, and most everyone that does any mechanized flame-cutting is using it.

Gasless is not actually gasless, and it is MIG welding, it just uses hollow flux core wire to generate the gas. They work great and can actually be better if welding outside. They are not good for production as the wire is expensive and the duty cycles are generally low, but they’re pretty much all we use for field service.

[wayned]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I'm interested in MIG (Metal Inert Gas) and gasless isn't that. Having looked everywhere that I can find (I will not buy without viewing something like that) there is nothing under 25,000 Baht and precious few above.

 

As to oxyacetylene, acetylene may be available somewhere (I did some brazing and cutting using that about 45 years ago) but I've never seen or heard of anyone using it here. 

It's used here especially in a professional car body work shop.

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, mogandave said:

Gasless is not actually gasless, and it is MIG welding, it just uses hollow flux core wire to generate the gas. They work great and can actually be better if welding outside. They are not good for production as the wire is expensive and the duty cycles are generally low, but they’re pretty much all we use for field service.

I am aware of fluxcore and its benefits. They aren't something that I need, and a low duty cycle machine would not be a problem. But I've seen nothing here in the northeast that is anywhere near the prices you mentioned and don't think I've seen fluxcore wire either. Regular wire is available though not much of a selection.

[Fruit Trader]

For those looking at light duty MIG welders, Jasic is a global brand and one of the better Chinese products with a decent level of support in Thailand.

 

We have the MIG160 and a very old TIG200 both are used regularly and been very reliable over the years. The Jasic MIG160  MIG/MMA multi process set can be found for around 15,000 Baht.

Our Jasic MIG160 on CO2.

 

[LukKrueng]

I've been looking for a longer +/- cable for my machine for a while now. Yesterday I saw this 1 at Global House for about 2000, but can't see the inside of the cable as it's all wrapped up... Anyone knows if this is good? It's about 2000 THB for 20m'...

 

[wayned]

I made 2 twenty meter cables .  I used 35mm² cable (orange ) that I bought at the local builder supply shop, sold by the meter but I don't remember how much/meter.  (I know, a lot of help) .  They also had the rod holder, ground clamp and the fittings to connect to the welder.  50mm² is kinda large and you might have trouble finding fittings that will accept cable that large to connect to the welder.  I also made two 10 meter jumper cables using the 35mm² cable.

[LukKrueng]

by what I understood the orange cables are suitable for the big professional welders as they have only 1 copper (thick) wire inside whereas the black cables have many. I found the orange cable in many places in different thickness for about 40 - 60 THB / meter

[sometimewoodworker]

34 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

by what I understood the orange cables are suitable for the big professional welders as they have only 1 copper (thick) wire inside whereas the black cables have many. I found the orange cable in many places in different thickness for about 40 - 60 THB / meter

No welding cable has a single copper conductor, that would not be flexible. 

[CGW]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

professional welders as they have only 1 copper (thick) wire inside

Welding cable is identified/sold by its gauge or "AWG" basically the higher the gauge the more amps it can handle, it is comprised of copper conductor strands woven together, not one piece, 1100/0.12 appears to be the conductor "make up" - no idea what it relates to though! some strange Thai designation maybe? 1100 woven wires of 0.12 dia would be a guess? .12 seems small! Ideally you want a cable with a amperage rating, this could be anything.

[sometimewoodworker]

27 minutes ago, CGW said:

Welding cable is identified/sold by its gauge or "AWG" basically the higher the gauge the more amps it can handle, it is comprised of copper conductor strands woven together, not one piece, 1100/0.12 appears to be the conductor "make up" - no idea what it relates to though! some strange Thai designation maybe? 1100 woven wires of 0.12 dia would be a guess? .12 seems small! Ideally you want a cable with a amperage rating, this could be anything.

Welding cable in Thailand is unlikely to be sold using AWG (American wire gauge) 

It is sold using SQmm. It is extremely unlikely to be woven either it's is going to have a slight twist, though with that number of fine strands it could be.

 

The cable show is 50 SQ mm it will not have an Amp rating as that will depend on the length of cable in use. The number of strands are not relevant apart from the fact that smaller strands give a more flexible cable

[CGW]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The number of strands are not relevant apart from the fact that smaller strands give a more flexible cable

Really? so the number of strands have nothing to do with amperage, you obviously know far more than I picked up in my fifty years of welding, "flexibility" what nonsense, sure you will be able to back up that statement?

 

Ever heard of "equivalent" sizes?

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by CGW
add

[Isaanbiker]

OP,it's like when you really want to have a baby, but it doesn't work out well.

 

   Practice, practice and practise. Please watch some guys on Youtube and some local welders. 

 

   I've made a course, even got a document saying that I'm a MIG welder, but I've got no idea how to weld. I haven't tried it for 25 years. 

 

   Here are some good points to consider:

 

    https://www.marlinwire.com/blog/how-to-know-when-to-use-mig-vs.-tig-welding

 

  

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

Really? so the number of strands have nothing to do with amperage, you obviously know far more than I picked up in my fifty years of welding, "flexibility" what nonsense,

You seem not to understand what was being said. The area of the conductors together with the length of the cable governs the amperage that can be passed, as your chart explains.

 

I would like like to see you try to use a cable with a single 50mm² copper conductor and say that A) it's possible and B) that it's as flexible as a multi conductor 50mm² cable. Though since 50mm² single core is not common try it with 10mm² single core cable and multi core instead, then you will understand why multicore is more flexible, and used for welding leads

[Fruit Trader]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

Really? so the number of strands have nothing to do with amperage, you obviously know far more than I picked up in my fifty years of welding, "flexibility" what nonsense, sure you will be able to back up that statement?

Its not really fair to say flexibility is nonsense as multi-strand cables are more flexible and resistant to metal fatigue.

 

A 7 strand 25mm cable would be a terrible choice for feeding the head of a welding robot with 25mm 500 strand having a much better chance of survival.

 

If the strands are equal in cross section area then adding more strands will increase the current carrying capacity. If the number of strands remains constant then strand CSA can be increased to increase capacity.

 

The photo below shows the conductors of a 35mm multi-strand cable made up of groups twisted together. Current carrying capacity for these cables is often increased through a range by adding more bundles of strands with the same CSA.

 

[wayned]

9 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

by what I understood the orange cables are suitable for the big professional welders as they have only 1 copper (thick) wire inside whereas the black cables have many. I found the orange cable in many places in different thickness for about 40 - 60 THB / meter

The orange cables are multi-stranded the same as the black ones.  The difference is the composition of the insulation as the orange cables are more resistant tosubstances that would break down the insulation.  There are many small strands so that the cable is very flexable/  I couldn't imagine trying to weld with a cable that had one single e 50mm² copper strand, it would be impossible!

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, wayned said:

I couldn't imagine trying to weld with a cable that had one single e 50mm² copper strand, it would be impossible!

But CGW said he has been doing exactly that for 50 years ???? as he claims that a flexible cable is not needed.

 

Though perhaps his experience as a welder, I don't suggest that is not true, didn't involve actually knowing that the cables he used were all multi strand flexible cable not solid core.

10 hours ago, CGW said:

in my fifty years of welding, "flexibility" what nonsense,

 

[Crossy]

I think there is some confusion going on here.

 

From Post #76 (my bold):-

 

13 hours ago, CGW said:

Welding cable is identified/sold by its gauge or "AWG" basically the higher the gauge the more amps it can handle, it is comprised of copper conductor strands woven together, not one piece, 1100/0.12 appears to be the conductor "make up" - no idea what it relates to though! some strange Thai designation maybe? 1100 woven wires of 0.12 dia would be a guess? .12 seems small! Ideally you want a cable with a amperage rating, this could be anything.

 

Definitely many small stands (1100/0.12 is 1100 strands of 0.12mm diameter - a global nomenclature) although they are usually twisted in bunches and the bunches themselves twisted together rather than being "woven" (which would give us a braid). Add more strands for more current capacity, use smaller strands for more flexibility (bendyness).

 

Not sure exactly what was meant by this statement in Post #78, misunderstanding of "flexibilty" perhaps.

 

11 hours ago, CGW said:

... "flexibility" what nonsense, sure you will be able to back up that statement?

 

Perhaps @CGW could clarify, we are after all (mostly) agreeing with one another here.

[Damrongsak]

11 hours ago, CGW said:

Really? so the number of strands have nothing to do with amperage, you obviously know far more than I picked up in my fifty years of welding, "flexibility" what nonsense, sure you will be able to back up that statement?

 

Ever heard of "equivalent" sizes?

I have the very same cable charts on my PC here.  The AWG one is by Lincoln Electric.

 

AWG cables are sometimes also specified in "circular mils", the actual cross sectional area, irrespective of the number of strands.  Similar to the metric cross-sectional way of specifying.

 

As pointed out, many fine strands can be a lot more flexible than a few large ones, and more resistant to breakage.  Not so good on corrosion.  Cable flexibility also depends on the type of insulation coating as well as inner lining which can allow slippage.  1960 Lincoln ad:

 

[CGW]

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

But CGW said he has been doing exactly that for 50 years ???? as he claims that a flexible cable is not needed.

Remind me where I said that a flexible cable was not needed, its inherent in its design

 

Appears my posts are "disappearing" so little point carry on.......................

[sometimewoodworker]

 

1 hour ago, CGW said:

Remind me where I said that a flexible cable was not needed, its inherent in its design

 

17 hours ago, CGW said:

18 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The number of strands are not relevant apart from the fact that smaller strands give a more flexible cable

Really? so the number of strands have nothing to do with amperage, you obviously know far more than I picked up in my fifty years of welding, "flexibility" what nonsense, sure you will be able to back up that statement?

 

If you had another meaning it certainly was not clear from those posts.

 

1 hour ago, CGW said:

Appears my posts are "disappearing" so little point carry on.......................

I haven't seen a post go missing but it's certainly possible that silent moderating is happening though often there is a comment to the effect that a post/posts have been removed.

 

Its also possible that there have been  computer glitchs.

Edited July 10, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[CGW]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If you had another meaning it certainly was not clear from those posts.

For that I apoligise, at times I forget most don't look at it as I do - I have spent a lifetime dealing with technical issues, hard to break the habit.

 

Silent moderating - whatever - my reply post was deleted - I'm not going to bother anymore - I was merely trying to help solve the "query" about welding cable - my reply was deemed to be inaccurate by you - it wasn't!

[Crossy]

5 hours ago, CGW said:

Silent moderating - whatever - my reply post was deleted - 

 

None, not a one, of your posts have been removed. Just like deleted files "deleted" posts don't really disappear, we mods can still see them, they're just tagged as "hidden", all your posts are visible.

 

Maybe you didn't hit the relevant button or there was a glitch in The Matrix ????

 

And everyone please, don't continue discussing moderation or your posts WILL be disappearing.

 

[CGW]

12 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

1960 Lincoln ad:

Below is a piece from 1958:- interesting to a pedantic ####* like me, I think we have exhausted the discussion on welding cable and thoroughly confused"OP"