Mandatory health insurance for foreigners aged over 50 in Thailand - why it may not affect you

[jesimps]

6 hours ago, Cranky said:

It is crystal clear that anyone, any age, anywhere on the planet should have adequate health and accident insurance at home, on holiday or if they live or are outside of a country like the UK that has a NHS.  Why should someone else be expected to foot the bill if you get sick, crash your rental motorbike (regardless of fault) or get banged on the head by a ladyboy out to nick your wallet (regardless of fault). 

 

What is it with people that think they are bullet-proof as soon as they board a plane?

 

And if they're fit and have sufficient money in the bank to self insure because they don't want to throw their hard earned money at the insurance industry to subsidise the couch potatoes who're in and out of hospital like yoyos because of their lifestyle and the tourists with no insurance falling off uninsured motorbikes.  Good value for them I must admit.

[bigginhill]

She said that once the rule is implemented, applicants for the non-immigrant O-A visa, which is valid for one year from the date of issue, would be required to buy health insurance. 

 

“Current holders of this visa will have to produce proof of their health insurance for visa renewal,” she said. 

[mommysboy]

It'll mean exactly what your regional immigration office want it to mean.

[AYJAYDEE]

30 minutes ago, jesimps said:

And if they're fit and have sufficient money in the bank to self insure because they don't want to throw their hard earned money at the insurance industry to subsidise the couch potatoes who're in and out of hospital like yoyos because of their lifestyle and the tourists with no insurance falling off uninsured motorbikes.  Good value for them I must admit.

how will that guy guarantee to the thai immigration that he in fact has the money in the bank and that it will be there at a moments notice if required?

 

[AYJAYDEE]

On second thought, perhaps the reason that insurance is required ONLY on the Non O-A is that the the extensions of permission to stay all require a bank deposit of at least 400,000 baht at all times and this is self insurance??

 

[ianezy0]

3 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Ian, your OA visa will have a date of issue and a enter before/valid until date on it ( 1 year minus 1 day from date of issue ).

Your OA expires on the enter before/valid until date but if you leave the country you will notice you get an admitted until stamp valid for one year. So, if you leave the country and re enter slightly before your visa expires you can obtain nearly 2 years from the visa ( i got 23 months from mine ), a simple land crossing is all that is needed.

 

NOTE: you will need a re-entry permit for any travel outside of Thailand after your visa expires.

 

The 1st year you are using your Multi entry OA visa, the second year you are on permission to stay which you then extend at the end of the 2nd year and every year thereafter.( or return “ home “ for another every 2 years ).

The Thai financial requirements will start when you extend after 2 years, hence the advantage of the OA is good for 2 years without any money tied up in Thailand.

 

The health insurance is required for obtaining the OA so if you already have one you should be good to go, although it’s all a little vague at the moment.

Thanks very much Andrew. Again, very helpful.

Geez all these hoops. If it wasn’t for people such as you, Peter and Ubonjoe etc the rest of us would be totally lost. I did not know or could not find any of this information on the Thai Australian embassy website.

[gk10002000]

Of course nothing is mentioned about exactly what type of insurance will be required.  For example, a USA citizen has fine Medicare insurance.  Now that is basically only good for treatment in the USA and won't cover a person in Thailand.  Will that be accepted when applying?  

 

  Lets assume the intent is to have medical insurance that is actually usable in Thailand.  How would a foreigner buy, say Bupa while still in their home country?  Doesn't Bupa want a Thai address?  The foreigner would not know such details yet, would not have any mail setup in Thailand yet, etc.

[MikeN]

2 hours ago, mngmn said:

This just in...

https://news.thaivisa.com/article/35306/mandatory-health-insurance-for-retirement-visa-holders-likely-to-take-effect-in-july

LOL ....where do they get their figures from :

 

2018

 

Non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 38 million 

Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million

Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000

Number of long-stay expats seeking medical services: 80,950

Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

 

38 million O-A visa holders ? 3.42 million medical visits by them ?

no way ! 

 

[luckyluke]

42 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

On second thought, perhaps the reason that insurance is required ONLY on the Non O-A is that the the extensions of permission to stay all require a bank deposit of at least 400,000 baht at all times and this is self insurance??

Except there are still many here with a Letter of Income/Affidavit still issued by their embassy/Consulate, with no money on a bank account(if they not wish to) 

[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, MikeN said:

LOL ....where do they get their figures from :

 

2018

 

Non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 38 million 

Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million

Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000

Number of long-stay expats seeking medical services: 80,950

Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

 

38 million O-A visa holders ? 3.42 million medical visits by them ?

no way ! 

 

Ha! Doesn't that mean that retired farangs are the majority of people in Thailand, since they got about 70M? Time to announce this country ours! ????

[AYJAYDEE]

9 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Except there are still many here with a Letter of Income/Affidavit still issued by their embassy/Consulate, with no money on a bank account(if they not wish to) 

so much  for THAT theory! lol. I cant believe they wont require insurance for every category at some point

 

[the guest]

Not sure what the fuss is about. Anyone entering Thailand should obtain mandatory insurance, whether you're a tourist or long stay visitor. It's very simple, and in line with most other countries.

[mosan]

6 hours ago, ianezy0 said:

I am so confused. I obtained my OA VISA in Australia last year. So, according to the ruling, I need to have the health insurance. Yet part of the requirement for the VISA was to have a deposit of 800k in a Thai bank AC, which I had.

so, do I also have to keep the 800k in the bank for 2 month prior and 3 month after, then 400k after that?

Also, when I come to renew the VISA, am I ok to do this at the IO in Thailand?

I too have a Non Immigrant O-A VISA, but I'm from the USA. However, there was no requirement to have the money on deposit in a bank in Thailand. I had the option to have the money in my home bank in the USA, or show the equivalent of 65K per month income from a pension going into my USA bank account.  I think if you look closely and perhaps ask, the same rule applies to Australia or the UK.  And yes, you can apply for an extension of stay, but then you're in Thailand and the money or monthly income must be deposited in a Thai bank--which means then you are subject to the seasoning requirements. Or, you can return to your home country and "renew" your VISA...which then means you will be subject to the insurance requirement when that comes into force, but still be able to have your funds sourced/deposited in your home country bank account.

[mosan]

6 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I would just like to know if Medicare is considered adequate cover. I would have to fly home, but I am already paying for it.

Medicare does not provide coverage in Thailand...US or US territories only (if a facility is available), like in Guam.

[Phredd]

Next Insurance will be for Motorcyclists, of all ages, 20,000+ die each year, I'm sure that would keep all the Silly Buggers off the roads...............................NOT!    I'm sad to say after my quite a number of years here, and loving it, appears to be coming to an end. ????   My Thai wife, for more than 7 years, told me she would want to come 'Home' and live with me.   Obviously many Western Countries are abut to have an influx of Thai women.   Hopefully the Roads there will be a lot better than they are here.   Thai population 67M road deaths conservative estimate 30,000, and that's not counting the ones who die in Hospital, as they didn't die on the Road, another one of those 'beautiful' Thai logic's.   Australia 24M Road Deaths, both on and in a Hospital less than 1,300.   Oh Thailand, "Please, Please wake up and save yourselves."    I agree that they've got my money so they don't need me anymore.  Que Sera, Sera, Whatever will be, will be, The Future was not ours, to see... ????  Good Luck And Goodbye from me.

[mosan]

6 hours ago, NokNokJoke said:

No mention of the insurance requirement on the DC Consulate site, yet.  I plan on applying for a Non O-A from there in the next few weeks, but probably not traveling to Thailand until early July.

I assume if the visa is granted....they can't retroactively require the insurance?

(Plan on getting it anyway,but not sure possible at this point without a thai address?)

I have a Non O-A from DC, and you do not have to have a Thai address...though they do ask on the additional information form for the application if you have any contacts in Thailand. And why would you have an address if you've never been before--of course, they don't know that, but putting a hotel/guest house as your first location would suffice.  

[mosan]

5 hours ago, Bkkjimbo said:

Never heard that before.

 

A 90 day non O can be converted to a 1 year EOS at local immigration?

 

 

Yes, a Non Immigrant O VISA can be converted into a 1 year extension of stay at a local immigration office.

[NokNokJoke]

1 hour ago, mosan said:

I have a Non O-A from DC, and you do not have to have a Thai address...though they do ask on the additional information form for the application if you have any contacts in Thailand. And why would you have an address if you've never been before--of course, they don't know that, but putting a hotel/guest house as your first location would suffice.  

I did a cursory look at the insurance application forms with the intention of trying to get coverage before I leave the US, but at least one carrier wanted a thai address.   So, not an address for immigration purposes.

 

Straying off topic, but on the O-A forms for DC, they have spaces for flight number.     I was not intending to book a flight until I had the O-A visa.  Any problem leaving blank or just putting something in there?  

[essexman]

I'd like to ask you guys a question.  Obviously this issue of the mandatory health insurance is making thousands of us expats very nervous..  My phone was very busy with messages coming from friends in the same and sometimes worse position than me.  Yesterday afternoon I started to get messages telling me I was okay.  It was only for people on an Non Immigrant Visa OA, not the extension based on retirement.  It's on Thaivisa forum I was told.

So, obviously I checked and sure enough I've read what I would think thousands of retirees have read.

 

My question is this.  Has this latest development coome from an offical government source?  Or has it come from within the Nation?Thaivisa forum?  Because I do wonder if it's been lost in the translation/terminology process.  I ask because I do wonder when the cabinet announced it was for all people on a long stay visa over the age of fifty, I have a feeling they meant all of us.  OA ... Extension, I can't help but wonder if what your saying is what the Government actually mean.  That's what I ask has this come from an offical source?  I would like to know the amount of people on the OA visa against the extension of stay people?  Not that I know, but I would imagine ther is a huge amount of difference with the extension of stay being a far higher number.  Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age, but it doesn't make sence to target a small group against the rest of us.  I know it's written OA visa, but do they realise they are not including the majority of retired people here.

[carbon007]

10 hours ago, bigginhill said:

mine is an O visa extended for retirement. You have an O-A extended for retirement.  

 

So I would like to know why is the discussion that the new insurance doesn't relate to us? 

as I understand it:

1) a Non-Immigrant visa O-A can be issued to foreigners in a foreign country at a thai embassy in that country.

2) And only outside Thailand. 

3) Per definition it cannot be renewed.

4) And especially not in Thailand at an immigration office (as it per definition is issued at an embassy outside Thailand)

5) That is why the article suggests the term re-applying  instead. Which is the case if you go back to your country and apply for a new one.

6) At immigration we get a stamp saying 'RETIREMENT extension of stay permitted...' (You could call it a local invention to substitute a visa)

7) Extensions of stay are not visas (quote from article)

'8) The new requirements for health insurance concerns only people applying or reapplying for a Non-Immigrant O-A visa

9) So as we do not re-apply for a Non-Immigrant O-A visa each year but for an extension of permission to stay the new requirements do not apply to us

10) For now the rules - let's see tomorrow  ????

 

[Happystance]

17 hours ago, dcnx said:

Not yet. It will apply to everyone eventually.

 

Seems the screws are being tightened globaly regarding immigration.

Thailand especially.

 

I do see the logic to mandatory health insurance tho.

 

[Mac98]

Insurance not available to older residents. Makes sense as insurance companies only want to insure people who won't collect on it, like banks only like to loan money to people who don't need it. But how can anyone feel secure about retiring here knowing that in the future they will not be insured even if they have been paying into it for 20 years and never collected one baht? Seems to work only if planning on starting over in your home country in old age. Suggestion for over 75: Catastrophic coverage. It pays nothing up to 100k baht, but covers between 100k and 500k for emergency care at any hospital, but longer-term care only at government facilities. That should be enough to stabilize anyone for a trip to their home country.

[AYJAYDEE]

5 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

Insurance not available to older residents. Makes sense as insurance companies only want to insure people who won't collect on it, like banks only like to loan money to people who don't need it. But how can anyone feel secure about retiring here knowing that in the future they will not be insured even if they have been paying into it for 20 years and never collected one baht? Seems to work only if planning on starting over in your home country in old age. Suggestion for over 75: Catastrophic coverage. It pays nothing up to 100k baht, but covers between 100k and 500k for emergency care at any hospital, but longer-term care only at government facilities. That should be enough to stabilize anyone for a trip to their home country.

and where do u get that?

 

[zoza]

13 hours ago, Torrens54 said:

Okay, so maybe I’m just too thick to grasp all of this..

what about those who are Retired and Married to a Thai ?

They are all going under the bus, the recent ''propaganda'' sorry figures

that are backed by a few ''special posters'' reveal how low this lot will go.

 

They need new revenue streams and they do not care how they achieve this.

many with previous conditions and over seventy cannot buy insurance but

they may let you stay if you keep one million baht in the Thai banks...

could well be the end of the line for a lot of Farang Marriages.

even the insurance offered here is double what you pay elsewhere. 

[Farang99]

17 hours ago, Teddy3943 said:

It's funny that sometimes immigration officers in various cities use various interpretations of their own laws...

Not funny at all.

[Mike Teavee]

Sorry but It's myopic or naive to believe that the mandatory health insurance won't be applied to (almost?) everybody who's over 50 & is on a long term (1 year) visa  

 

Think about it... the (Perceived) "Problem" is long term stayers over 50 running up unpaid medical bills, so what difference does it make whether they're on a Non-OA or extension of it or extension of a Non-O (>50 or Retirement) or even on a Thai Elite visa?

 

The only exception I can see that makes sense is for people who use the money in the bank method, why would you need to be able to prove you have 400k/40k of Insurance coverage when you show that you have that in the Bank 

 

[wimpy]

37 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Sorry but It's myopic or naive to believe that the mandatory health insurance won't be applied to (almost?) everybody who's over 50 & is on a long term (1 year) visa  

 

Think about it... the (Perceived) "Problem" is long term stayers over 50 running up unpaid medical bills, so what difference does it make whether they're on a Non-OA or extension of it or extension of a Non-O (>50 or Retirement) or even on a Thai Elite visa?

 

The only exception I can see that makes sense is for people who use the money in the bank method, why would you need to be able to prove you have 400k/40k of Insurance coverage when you show that you have that in the Bank 

 

Maybe that is why the new rules state you must keep 400k in the bank at all times. Hopefully.

[essexman]

43 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Sorry but It's myopic or naive to believe that the mandatory health insurance won't be applied to (almost?) everybody who's over 50 & is on a long term (1 year) visa  

My thoughts exactly.  I'm sure when this was formulated, they meant were thinking of all long stay over 50s.  Not just a small group of O-A visa holders.

[Pib]

Many folks are in denial in thinking since the news article used Non O-A Retirement Visa wording that it will not to apply to annual renewal extension of stay based on retirement.   Probably apply to some other categories of Non O visas also if a "1 year stay" is involved.   

 

With the possible exception of marriage visa/extension of stay based on marriage since the govt seems to have a small soft spot in their heart for Thai spouses married to farangs this policy will surely end up applying to Retirement Visas OR Retirement Extensions of Stay.   Call it visa or call it extension of stay we are really talking the same animal which is a 1 year stay (a.k.a., long stay).  The argument of calling it visa or extension of stay has went on for thousands of posts/many years on ThaiVisa. 

 

Now I'm not in denial....basically the govt will want you to have medical insurance in order to get a 1 year stay...initial or extended stay...."except maybe" for a 1 year marriage visa/extension of stay.  We'll have to wait and see what the police order says.

 

[tingtongtourist]

16 hours ago, zydeco said:

There is no requirement for maintaining an account balance. As long as they get their 65K per month posted, they can withdraw it all the next day. That may be seen as a problem. 400,000 minimum maintained in a bank account permanently, as with the 800,000 retirees might be what they're thinking. 

As i understand, the O-A applicant must show equal to 800k in bank account in his own country.

many would probably be more cashed up than TV guys screaming about having to keep 400k in the bank a few months