Kidnappers In Roi-et Area

[Nawtilus]

I was just told by two local university instructors (Thai nationals) that an article on these kidnappings appeared in Sunday's edition of the Thai-language newspaper THAI RAT. Can anyone out there upload a copy of this article? Perhaps Jai Dee can help on this one.

Second that request if possible.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

My wife says that the kidnappers sever the legs from the babies in order to make them more sympathetic beggars.

I can probably get a piece on to the BBC - in much the same way as we did for Candyflip after the tsunami. It has to be accurate though, sourcing someone who has lost a child recently. I.e it has to be more concrete than the hearsay on the forum.

[thedi]

It has to be accurate though, sourcing someone who has lost a child recently.

I would second that: Where is a report from a father or mother who lost his/her child.

Reading and hearing all this rumors, there should be hundreds of missing children in the last week alone ???

Thedi

[Nawtilus]

Do it, who was the poster who's kids went back to the village with mum to find out kids in the village had been taken, try that avenue. If anyone does get anything to appear in any news outlet, please post it in advance if possible here.

I have doubts about the beggar angle, possibly even the organ angle, but certainly child slavery, sex and otherwise and selling kids for adoption etc could well be happening.

If you are the parent of a young child of this age range, just try thinking what your child would be thinking, what would be going through their head if something like this ever happened to them.

That thought alone is beyond being able to deal with.

Are all these reports of kidnappings upcountry...any in Bangkok itself ?

Edited March 20, 2007 by Nawtilus

[chevykanteve]

This is a followup to my earlier post regarding the newspaper article on kidnappers in the Thai-language publication THAI RAT. I found the backissue today in our university library. It is last Sunday's edition. The front page has a large photo (upper right-hand corner) of Thai police with a young boy who was an attempted kidnap victim. The full story appears on page 9 (lower left hand corner). In summary, a new-model green-colored van pulled up next to a few boys. A man inside the van tried pulling in one of the boys who screamed, kicked and managed to run away. The boy said that as the man attempted to pull him into the van he (the boy) saw several other children already inside the van. There were witnesses. The green van had Samut Sakon license plates, and a partial license number is given in the article. The police called a general alert but weren't able to apprehend the van. This event occured in Prae Province.

In my opinion, these events are shifting outside the realm of mere "hearsay". But having said that, I am submitting this information FYI.

[leisurely]

I haven't heard abut any kidnappings in Bangkok, however I can't read Thai newspapers. I feel that this is an urban myth gone mad now. There aren't any first hand reports only gossip and hearsay.

Having said that, my two girls only go out with me

[Lickey]

As in the previous post, im not a great believer in heresay and gossip, before i came to Thailand, i done a lot of internet research into the area {issan} i would be living, this particular website suggested that poor familys would "sell" there kids at the end of there schooling, because they couldnt keep them on there mearge earnings, just a thought, do you know any of these familys who have had kids abducted? do these familys have new colour tvs, or a iron buffalo, perhaps a pick-up truck? another thing is if any bodies have been recovered, a kids funeral is a village thing, anybody wittnesed this??

sorry if this post has upset anyone, but it had to be said, Thankyou,

[MarcoH]

As in the previous post, im not a great believer in heresay and gossip, before i came to Thailand, i done a lot of internet research into the area {issan} i would be living, this particular website suggested that poor familys would "sell" there kids at the end of there schooling, because they couldnt keep them on there mearge earnings, just a thought, do you know any of these familys who have had kids abducted? do these familys have new colour tvs, or a iron buffalo, perhaps a pick-up truck? another thing is if any bodies have been recovered, a kids funeral is a village thing, anybody wittnesed this??

sorry if this post has upset anyone, but it had to be said, Thankyou,

Out of 2550 readers and 67 replyes,,,,,

I read in Thai newspapers, news in TV and listen to Radio, but some how havent heard anything abt this.....

Is thing some one want to have puplicity or what? where is the Proof?????

[thedi]

It is definitely an urban legend.

Today there was an article in 'Tagesanzeiger', a serious Swiss newspaper. It is in German: http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/dyn/news/ausland/733745.html but I will translate a summary here:

17 corps of youngsters, cut to pieces, were found by the police behind the house of a rich man in India in a place called Nithari. It turned out that they come from poor families in the slums and had been sexually abused by the rich man before beeing killed and cut to pieces by a servant. Hence a pervert like they exist around the world.

A research by United Nations found a lot of rumors about stealing of children, but no proof. This research was poorly executed: they just send a questionair to governments and NGOs.

An other research was done by Nancy Scheper-Hughes, a lecturer at Univerity of California and leader of the NGO 'Organs Watch'. Her report includes a statement, that organ trafficking does not always follow the rules. Mostly it is that rich people go to countries where organ transplatations can be had without waiting lists. Namely India, China, Brasilia, South-Africa and Middle-East countries (Sout-East or Thailand were NOT mentioned). It is not always clear, where the organs come from.

A big concern is China, where Organs are taken from people who were sentenced to death.

---

Rumors of child abduction are widley spreading in poor countries. But there has never been any proof and not a hint to any connection with illegal organ trafficking. Organ stealing would be easy for any hostiptal from accident casualities.

Regards

Thedi

[chevykanteve]

It is definitely an urban legend.

Today there was an article in 'Tagesanzeiger', a serious Swiss newspaper. It is in German: http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/dyn/news/ausland/733745.html but I will translate a summary here:

17 corps of youngsters, cut to pieces, were found by the police behind the house of a rich man in India in a place called Nithari. It turned out that they come from poor families in the slums and had been sexually abused by the rich man before beeing killed and cut to pieces by a servant. Hence a pervert like they exist around the world.

A research by United Nations found a lot of rumors about stealing of children, but no proof. This research was poorly executed: they just send a questionair to governments and NGOs.

An other research was done by Nancy Scheper-Hughes, a lecturer at Univerity of California and leader of the NGO 'Organs Watch'. Her report includes a statement, that organ trafficking does not always follow the rules. Mostly it is that rich people go to countries where organ transplatations can be had without waiting lists. Namely India, China, Brasilia, South-Africa and Middle-East countries (Sout-East or Thailand were NOT mentioned). It is not always clear, where the organs come from.

A big concern is China, where Organs are taken from people who were sentenced to death.

---

Rumors of child abduction are widley spreading in poor countries. But there has never been any proof and not a hint to any connection with illegal organ trafficking. Organ stealing would be easy for any hostiptal from accident casualities.

Regards

Thedi

Thedi,

I for one would agree that the "organ theft" aspect is probably (I would guess CERTAINLY) urban legend type-stuff. I'm not disputing that probability. But, kidnappings per-se are occuring if we are to believe the police wanted posters and the article in Thai-Rat newspaper. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater!

[Guest StephenB]

I too have heard of this. I phone my wife every couple of days and she has been telling me that people and children are showing up dead with eyes and organs missing or disappeared missing in nearby villages. I am under the impression that the victim is kidnapped, organs and eyes removed and then the body is dumped somewhere for people to find. I live in Surin Provence out past Lamduan, from what I understand there is a good chance of this being true because the morning loud speaker "going ons" from the village chief has been mostly about this and from what I understand is that some of that info comes from the government. I have been outside Thailand now for a couple weeks and these recent reports of kidnappings and then finding the body's with organs missing seems to be picking up every week. I sure hope its just a rumor but I myself believe that this is happening. I have 2 children and cannot afford to say that this is just hearsay. This is the only place I could find news about this.

[Lickey]

I think this is the site i found a couple of years ago, www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/54/075.html or google Thai children for sale, and has anybody seen a kiddies funeral of a recoverd minor? different posts on here report that the body was found with organs missing, so there must have been a funeral!!

[Mai Krap]

The stories are still being told in the villages and I have one good source who relayed a story of a lady being attacked and her child kidnapped but I cannot confirm the story. The reality is in both America and Europe kidnapping is a daily occurrence so how on earth would anybody think it did not happen here in Thailand. If you have kids you should never let them out of your sight or at least have them with a nanny or something constantly. In the last thirty days I killed 2 snakes just out the door of my home, one which tried to bite my wife. That alone is good enough reason to keep a good eye on the kids.

Rape is a crime rarely prosecuted here and there are many serial pedophiles running around the countryside . I worry more about the kids in our family getting raped by a drunk villager than I worry about kidnappers but one cannot be to safe. It was just a couple months back when international school students hired a driver who would later rape one of the girls, I'm still bothered by that one.

[Farma]

A story has been published in the Nation today.

Link to the story in the general topics forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=112947&hl=

Link to the Nation story http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/26...es_30030240.php

[chevykanteve]

A story has been published in the Nation today.

Link to the story in the general topics forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=112947&hl=

Link to the Nation story http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/26...es_30030240.php

It's interesting how,when we have a report like this with names and locations mentioned, by one of the two English dailies no less, there's not a comment from the skeptics.

Edited March 26, 2007 by chevykanteve

[Lickey]

Kidnapping, yes, selling kids by poor families yes, this goes on all over the world, its a shamless degradation of the present society powered by money alone, and untill i read from a poster on here that they have seen a disembowled kids body and have been to a funeral, then i will not believe organ gathering happens and bodies are found,not one iota of proof so far!!

[chevykanteve]

More copies of police WANTED POSTERS have gone up in Roi-et, at least in the Nong Poch and Phontong areas. They are posted all over. Obviously, the kidnappers --as represented at least by the one whose face is depicted on this poster-- have yet to be caught.

[Felt 35]

My wife’s sister called today and said that they in Khorat have been instructed to not walk alone due to fear that they shall be kidnapped or killed after a man was found dead and his heart and other body parts was removed.

[Tarragona]

Something I've already posted in another thread.

I came into the middle of a discussion of this story on the จส100 radio station. It was said that authorities are trying to establish if the 'van gangs' really exist. Stories are coming from all parts of the country.

An NGO working against human trafficking was mentioned and figures compiled by them show that from 2004 (on their website 2003) to the present, over 400 children have been reported missing (all cases, not van abductions). About 30 were children below the age of 11 and the rest were 11-18.

I later googled for more information on the group, in Thai มูลนิธิกระจกเงา.

One of their projects is http://www.backtohome.org

There is a statement on that website which says that they have sent staff to areas where kidnap rumours have been reported including Khon Kaen, Srisaket, Chainat, Petchaburi and Ratchaburi. They have been unable to turn up a single verifiable case.

Where they have heard stories from local people, there are no police reports but this could be because the families haven't filed reports, the police thought the children had just got lost or have deliberately kept it quiet. The group has also received a report of two 10-year olds being kidnapped from a department store in Bangkapi (kids returned but no arrests made). They would like clarification from the police on this case and all the rumours that are circulating.

They reiterate that at present, following the investigations that they've made, the stories remain nothing but unsubstantiated rumours. The full piece is here:

http://www.backtohome.org/autopage-new/sho...=56&d_id=56

Edited April 2, 2007 by Tarragona

[bergen]

Saw the poster 2day in a local shop in Nam Yun, down south in Ubon Province.

[Lickey]

Shall we have a quick look at London? if its your backyard then it outweighs Thailand quite a bit, this is just 1 city in the UK..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4541603stm

[Lickey]

I just done a google search on" kids missing in London UK," it should come up with a BBc news site first, have a careful read of this, the survey was carried out by the Met Police and reported as found, sadly, i believe this report more than the gossip on here and the "police have to be seen doing something" by putting a poster up,,

[Vegemite]

....... I don't know what to make of this. I don't doubt that some of the stories about kidnapping are true, but I wonder if there are elements of moral panic or urban myth.

I just heard a similar story...a village headman in a nearby village was proclaiming in his daily "loudspeaker" village news that children are being abducted and their body parts being sold for use in the medical field. I gotta tend to agree with citizen 33 above about the validity of some of these stories. Reminds me a little about another one that circulates every few years where some robbers touch you and put you in some kind of trance, rob you or lead you to an ATM where you withdraw your money and give it to them. You "wake up" later not knowing anything happened but minus your gold or your money.

I have just returned from a small village in the Mahasarskham area about 20kms from Wapipathum. My nephew in law had just had a narrow escape from these people.

I havent read all of the posts here but the village that I stayed in was worried.

Word on the street was " mafia, body parts and the police cant find the bad guys".

There are no police in most of these villages and the nearest cops to us were 20kms away.

[chevykanteve]

Check this out (breaking news from this evening's online Nation newspaper):

Kidnap gangs a real danger to youths, parents warned

Labour Protection and Welfare Department chief Padungsak Thephasdin na Ayutthaya Wednesday warned parents nationwide of kidnapping gangs during the school break.

Seven hundred and seventy five children under 18 have gone missing in the past three years and most disappeared during the summer break according to the Royal Thai Police report, he said.

Last year alone, 82 children were reported missing and from last October to this March a further 14 children "had disappeared", he added.

Padungsak urged parents to watch out for criminals among the crowds and to tip off police about any suspicious incidents. He also asked people witnessing child labour abuses to call the Labour Ministry at 1506.

Padungsak cited a case of two young male teenagers from Buri Ram on their way to look for construction jobs in Bangkok, but were drugged in the toilets at Mor Chit bus station. They later regained consciousness on an offshore fishing boat and were told they had been sold for Bt10,000 each and to work without payment for seven months, he said.

In the end, the department helped them out and got the Social Development and Human Security Ministry to give them assistance money Bt1,900 each. The pair returned to Buri Ram where the labour office provided them with vocational training.

The Nation

[RasiMike]

A few days ago, my wife and I were informed that 'three men' were in my mother-in-laws' village (between Rasi Salai, Srisaket and Phonsai, Roiet Province) and they had asked several residents "where the farangs boys' house is ".... we visit the in-laws regularly but live elsewhere.

I have followed this thread on and off - with varying degrees of scepticism, but, since this was reported to us we decided to check out the prevailance of reports/kidnappings in our area. Our closest neighbour is a mid -level policeman in Rasi Salai and his wife told my wife, that there had been several attempts to grab children in a neighbouring village (Baan Goong)... just 10 kms from our home. She said that one guy "from the south" had been apprehended and when asked what he was up to stated that he "just killed them".

Having lived here for long enough to know that legends and stories abound.... I am still a little sceptical.... although, I have become more aware of traffic around the house and our personal secutrity level has increased.

Mike

[chevykanteve]

This is from today's BKK Post (Sunday 4/22/07):

New task force urged to trace missing kids

Authorities need to act quicker against traffickers, says minister

By Penchan Charoensuthipan

A special task force to trace missing children by coordinating information from relevant agencies should be set up, Deputy Social Development and Human Security Minister Poldej Pinprateep said yesterday. He said the authorities cannot afford to waste time in their attempts to find missing children, many snatched by human traffickers and forced to work as child labourers, beggars or sex workers.

Ekarak Lumchomkhae, head of the Mirror Foundation's missing persons information centre, said more than 400 cases of missing people have been reported to the centre since 2004.

Missing children reported to the centre have ranged from newborn infants and toddlers to children aged 10-12.

Mr Poldej said a centre should be set up specifically to search for missing children and it must be able to work quickly.

The more time passes, the slimmer the chances are of finding them and reuniting them with their families, he said.

He was speaking during a visit to three families of missing children in Krathum Baen district of Samut Sakhon. He was accompanied by provincial governor Theeraboon Pobukadee and provincial police chief Pol Maj-Gen Sompong Samransuk.

Soraya Dankuekul is the mother of Chaiyapas, or Nong Ten, 12, who has been missing for four months.

She said she has not lost hope of getting her son back and believes he is still safe. He disappeared on Dec 16.

However, the ordeal has traumatised Nong Ten's father, Charoen.

To him, the four months have been an eternity. He said he has gone through many crises in his life, but nothing like this.

He also voiced frustration about the slow response by police who refused to register his complaint hours after the boy went missing. Police said the family had to wait at least 24 hours before they could lodge a missing person's complaint.

Rapid changes in society has contributed to the rising number of children disappearing, Mr Ekarak said.

As neighbourhood ties are weakened, fewer people in the same community know or care about each other, he said.

Mr Poldej said his ministry was also floating the idea of establishing a neighbourhood watch network in communities to help look out for strangers and suspicious activities.

He said a website and a 1300 hotline would also serve as a centre to receive complaints and useful clues about any missing children.

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

"The child theft stories are not new. I heard them 15 years ago, when I came to Isarn the first time"

Exactly,my gf is 26 from Khonkaen area and remembers being told as a child to hide from any car she heard while travelling from the school to the home or the cane-field with her sister,

also while she was a kid one of her neighbours WAS kidnapped by a "Beggar gang" while going pee-pee in a field,but she feigned death after a nasty struggle and they ran off.

also my GF has seen the poster herself,it was handed out in her town.

it is a reality,whether its for organlegging,or whatever.

take care of your kids!.

[chevykanteve]

"The child theft stories are not new. I heard them 15 years ago, when I came to Isarn the first time"

Exactly,my gf is 26 from Khonkaen area and remembers being told as a child to hide from any car she heard while travelling from the school to the home or the cane-field with her sister,

also while she was a kid one of her neighbours WAS kidnapped by a "Beggar gang" while going pee-pee in a field,but she feigned death after a nasty struggle and they ran off.

also my GF has seen the poster herself,it was handed out in her town.

it is a reality,whether its for organlegging,or whatever.

take care of your kids!.

You know, I can only infer from yours and similar replies that this stuff has in fact been going on for years. It's longevity has resulted in its being misinterpreted, perhaps, as urban legend by some individuals. Now finally, the BKK English-language press is talking about this and acknowledgeing that a serious kidnapping problem, nation-wide, does in fact exist.

Hey George, is the time yet ripe for the TV warning/alert you mentioned on page 1 of this thread? I'm not trying to put you on the spot.... I'm just asking (pretty please????).

[Shokdee]

One thing I have learnt is that stupidity is a bottomless pit - if someone is not ready for what is in front of them (i.e truth) NO AMOUNT OF ARGUMENT, PROOF, PHOTOS, WILL EVER CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

Kidnapping, especially of children and women, for work slavery, sex slavery, body parts, sadism etc is going on WORLDWIDE at a phenomenal rate. The reason it's often not reported nor going away is because the powers that be (POLICE, GOVERNMENT, ELITE, UN, whatever) are behind it.

Jesus read post number #33 again. Very cleary, logically laid out. Off the top of my head I recall an article in Bangkok post about a month ago about a >UN aid ship< to Timor that was used for transporting kidnapped Thais. Or just last week in Bangkok a lady convicted for keeping a 13 year old girl as a slave. Remember Dynacorp (the big US-Iraqi contractor, the people who have open ended contracts to develop vaccines!) and the cages and cages of women they had for sale in Bosnia! Or that Hailburton and Dynacorp are running sex slavery rings in the Green Zone in Bagdad. Or the report about 300 black children that disappeared in London in a few months. Or that Children Protection Services/Juvenile detention centres worldwide are fronts for sodomy, paedophilea. Or the Catholic Church and the just-too-numerous-to-mention sex scandals. it's there right in front of you to see. It's an INDUSTRY, it's planned, it's professional, it's supported by those in power.

Please can we move beyond the "I don't believe it because I haven't seen it on ESPN yet / my buddy told me it's just an urban legend / I read a newspaper at least once a year and I haven't seen anything" to something more helpful. Maybe collating the reports from Thailand ALREADY POSTED ABOVE to (1) pinpoint hotspots (2) timeframes (what time of day, what months), (3) descriptions of their modus operandi (4) most likely targets, etc. Essentially we the people living in Thailand will have to try and solve/prevent this, waiting for the police/government is not really much of an option.

PLEASE we need practical solutions and ideas (e.g. the kidnapping guide link posted earlier, maybe a similar easy to read Thai document can be produced) and avoid what can be ENDLESS debate about the reality/unreality of something clearly, undeniably happening right now.

I'm an old man so I doubt I'm any use for sex slavey or body parts but I have Thai family which includes beautiful young girls and I worry that these kids will fall into the hands of these sick f**king bastards. It just takes a few seconds of inattention and bam it's too late. Heartache that will never go away.

Edited May 5, 2007 by Shokdee

[qualtrough]

One thing I have learnt is that stupidity is a bottomless pit - if someone is not ready for what is in front of them (i.e truth) NO AMOUNT OF ARGUMENT, PROOF, PHOTOS, WILL EVER CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

Kidnapping, especially of children and women, for work slavery, sex slavery, body parts, sadism etc is going on WORLDWIDE at a phenomenal rate. The reason it's often not reported nor going away is because the POLICE, GOVERNMENT, ELITE, UN, are behind it.

Jesus read post number #33 again. Very cleary, logically laid out. I recall an article in Bangkok post about a month ago about a UN aid ship to Timor that was used for transporting kidnapped Thais. Remember Dynacorp (yes the big Iraq contractor, the people who have open ended contracts to develop vaccines!) and the cages and cages of women they had for sale in Bosnia! Or that Hailburton and Dynacorp are running slavery rings in the Green Zone in Bagdad. Or the report about 300 black children that have disappeared in London in a few months. Or that Children Protection Services/Juvenile detention centres worldwide are fronts for sodomy, paedophilea. etc....

Please can we move beyond the "I don't believe it because .. I haven't seen it on Dozecovery Channel yet / my buddy told me it's just an urban legend / I read a newspaper at least once a year and I haven't seen anything" to something more helpful. Maybe collating the reports from Thailand ALREADY POSTED ABOVE to (1) pinpoint hotspots (2) timeframes (what time of day, what months), (3) descriptions of their modus operandi (4) most likely targets, etc. Essentially we the people living in Thailand will have to try and solve this, waiting for the police/goverment is not am option.

PLEASE PEOPLE we need practical solutions and ideas (eg the kidnapping guide link posted earlier, maybe an easy to read Thai document can be produced) and avoid ENDLESS debate about the reality/not reality of something clearly, undeniably happening right now. I'm an old man so I doubt I'm any use for sex slavey or body parts but I have Thai family which includes beautiful young girls and I worry that these kids will fall into the hands of these sick &lt;deleted&gt; bastards. It just takes a few seconds of inattention and bam it's too late.

Amazing! How are you privy to all this secret information? Can you share the decoder ring with us please?