Billion baht luxury villa on Samui doesn't have a hotel license

[delh]

There are 30 Self Catering Villas,  all high end.  They range  from 4-7 bedrooms,  several  have built in cinemas.  All privately owned. 

Not one of them has a reception,  although the main office has facilities  for registration. 

Just for info.... 

Edited June 13, 2019 by delh

[ratcatcher]

2 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

Not sure envelopes are going to cut on this case, even A2 envelopes will not meet the need, think cake boxes, wedding cake boxes.

Only a full one of these will solve that problem methinks.

[Gulfsailor]

5 minutes ago, delh said:

There are 30 Self Catering Villas,  all high end.  They range  from 4-7 bedrooms,  several  have built in cinemas.  

Not one of them has a reception,  although the main office has facilities  for registration. 

Just for info.... 

To the best of my knowledge, the estate houses 27 villas of which 4 are not under Samujana management. I think 3 of those 4 are (partly) occupied by its owners and not available for holiday rent.  All rental villas have in house staff (manager, chef, maid, etc).

 

the problem here might be that the staff is employed by Samujana and they take care of everything. The actual property owner in return pays a tidy sum in management fees each month but doesn’t have to worry about anything.

There are plenty villa management companies on the island who manage the marketing, rental and maintenance of the many very high end villas on Samui, but in those cases the actual owners employ the staff under their own individual company names. The management company is then protected and doesn’t need the hotel license as that’s up to the property owner. The government would have to go after each individual property separately to check if the proper licenses are held. Samujana, running everything themselves, are an easy target, same as Miskawaan a little while ago.  

[Isaanbiker]

Rentals go for 30,000 to 130,000 a night. 

 

     Pretty cheap, methinks. I prefer the ones around 150,000 +. 

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, churchill said:

A private villa rental is not the same as a company running 23 villas on a managed estate and for  the cost of these villas and prices charged I think a hotel license should be obtained .

The article mentioned that the villas were individually owned...

Quote

Each villa is separately owned and the whole property is run by a company like a hotel with a percentage of the profits going to the owners. 

If each individually owned villa has/had a license, then the "company like" management could presumably be considered as a booking-agent and maintenance service bureau; believe numerous villa rentals at Samui works something like that (I actually know of some)...????

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

How strange. I am continually amazed at the knowledge of TV experts.

 

Here is a copy of a villa/pool licence that I am told 'no such thing' Most of my customers have these for their villas

 

As I said " Information on this is not consistent and is confusing. "

 

Thats an exemption certificate?

 

To be more precise, these are just stamps to mark building names. No such thing as a pool license etc.

 

Pools over  a certain amount of water intake need to have a building permit, that depends on local zoning laws.

For example in TRAT are (Koh Chang) it's usually 100 qubic metres, above that you need a building permit, you need to pay the usual taxes etc. It's just another building.

 

Noone of these exemptions are anywhere specified in the hotel act it seems, they are delt with locally which results in misinformation all over the internet. Most local offices a la pattaya and co refuse to even issue something like this..

Edited June 13, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, myillegalhotel said:

We told everyone six months ago that there were loads of illegal villas being advertised on Airbnb Etc that were illegal, i.e. no hotel licences,  We even pointed it out to the Dusit hotel chain that their purchase of Elite Havens villas in Thailand was suspect because there were no hotel licences for these villas,  but now it looks like we will be proved right and this maybe the start for of a few big companies, Thai and International, being found out for operating illegally in Thailand. Laws are meant to be followed and abided by and these companies lack of respect for the laws in Thailand are disgraceful especially as its the law abiding public who are being deceived by these illegally listed and promoted villas on worldwide booking sites into booking illegal accommodations, which could be closed down anytime and holidays ruined. 

 

Care to comment on such stuff as "villa license" and "exemptions" - i still can't find any real info about how to apply for an exemption that works everywhere etc. ?

 

 

 

[hotchilli]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

The property is a set of 23 individual villas on 70 rai of land on Cherng Mon hill in Bo Phut. The five star facility is worth a billion baht, reported Naew Na and was built in 2011. 

8 years in operation, that's a nice income for the operators and individual villa owners, hope they are all traced & fined accordingly!

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

8 years in operation, that's a nice income for the operators and individual villa owners, hope they are all traced & fined accordingly!

 

doesn't look like they have been shut down yet major booking sites are still listing them and taking bookings

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[GeorgeCross]

18 hours ago, justin case said:

soon AIRBNB will be outlawed

 

not really sure their is much the thai authorities could do even if they wanted to. i mean what are their options? take airbnb to court? well that wouldn't work, firstly i dont think they are breaking any laws they just take bookings they dont run illegal hotels and many legal hotels also list on there so cannot be up to airbnb to check all the docs for every listing. plus they arent a thai company and also wouldnt be scared by any fines even billions. 

 

so only thing thailand could do is block the site but even that wouldnt work as firstly it would only be blocked in thailand and secondly most bookings are from outside of thailand! then on top of that would they block expedia too? what about agoda or booking.com?! that would be a big problem for legal hotels and upset many thai legit tourists.

 

so i think at best the only thing they could do is ask the booking sites to take down any illegal listings via court order but i am not sure there would be a law for that. its not LM content or similar after all. we only have to look at thai efforts to stifle dissenting voices on platforms like facebook to see how toothless they are in the face of silicon valley behemoths.

 

nope i think only recourse they have is to hit at source and prosecute the 'hotels' here. as they are doing.

 

 

[edwardflory]

15 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

Rentals go for 30,000 to 130,000 a night. 

I would think that people renting the villas at this price would have no interest in a hotel at 600+ a night except maybe to store luggage

[ThomasThBKK]

 

Seems to continue and be orchastrated by high up ????

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, edwardflory said:

I would think that people renting the villas at this price would have no interest in a hotel at 600+ a night except maybe to store luggage

Seems like you're not familiar with Samui hotel accommodation, 600 baht might give you a bed in a youth hostel on the better beach-destinations, whilst a proper (i.e. 5* luxury) 1-bed bungalow in season easily can cost from 20,000 baht and up a night, like 60,000+ baht for a twin bedroom. So 4 to 7 bedroom villas from 30,000 to 130,000 baht a night is actually a bargain, only from 7,500 baht to nearly 19,000 baht a night per bedroom...????

[RJRS1301]

Since they are each privately owned, then the management are only the "letting agents" for private rentals by the night/week.

 

[Tropicalevo]

19 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Care to comment on such stuff as "villa license" and "exemptions" - i still can't find any real info about how to apply for an exemption that works everywhere etc. ?

 

 

 

I think that you have hit the nail on the head there.

 

The people in charge seem not to have a common 'work to' list across Thailand.

 

On Samui - the owners with the villa/pool licence are being told that they are OK if they comply with the rules.

[ThomasThBKK]

I think that you have hit the nail on the head there.
 
The people in charge seem not to have a common 'work to' list across Thailand.
 
On Samui - the owners with the villa/pool licence are being told that they are OK if they comply with the rules.

Yeah but there's no laws for this stuff, so it's fine until orbortor needs a new car [emoji28]

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[happy chappie]

I would of thought it can't be classed as an hotel as it has individually owned plots and villas with a rental manager.

now if it was fully owned by a company of owners then it could be classed as a resort.as it looks if one owner don't rent out and all the others do,does he receive any of the income/profit.

[ronaldo0]

Good idea they have on samui. Tell all these investors they will be able to rent places out for a fortune, get them to cough up loads of cash to build villas at mental cost , set up management company to keep them paying service charges every month and then after a while wait till the authorities shut them down for no licenses and then go repeat somewhere else on the island ! ££££££ 

[arithai12]

On 6/13/2019 at 9:05 AM, Denim said:

So all the other hotels combined on the Island are losing 23 nightly rentals between them ? Pretty small ' impacting '.

 

Still....wrong is wrong. Get  a license and pay taxes. 

I doubt it's one bedroom per villa.

Yes they should pay tax.

[GeorgeCross]

still taking bookings so didn't get shut down.

 

does that they were in fact legal then?

 

what's the secret sauce??

 

 

[ThomasThBKK]

On 6/17/2019 at 12:00 AM, arithai12 said:

I doubt it's one bedroom per villa.

Yes they should pay tax.

Quite sure the managing company does pay taxes on their income, the villa owners of course also have to pay rental income taxes but i don't see why the managing company should be liable for this.

 

Well the fine is 10k baht per day i think, guess they can just easily pay that lol

[observer90210]

Hard time for doing business or even wanting to have a holiday in the mafia ridden Koh's all over Thailand, where even the local islanders have fled to to the rise in corruption or racket from the poweful clans.

[SABloke]

On 6/13/2019 at 3:18 PM, justin case said:

soon AIRBNB will be outlawed

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news: AirBNB has been illegal for a long time already. But so has driving on the sidewalks, driving against traffic, running through red lights, driving on the hard shoulder, buying alcohol on religious holidays, buying alcohol near educational institutions, paying bribes, accepting bribes, and the list goes on and on.

 

The point is: Whether something is illegal is of no consequence in Thailand - if the RTP isn't enforcing a law, you basically have permission to do it. The fact that you assumed that AirBNB was legal (due to the thousands of publicly available rentals in Thailand) proves the point nicely. 

[GeorgeCross]

10 minutes ago, SABloke said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news: AirBNB has been illegal for a long time already. But so has driving on the sidewalks, driving against traffic, running through red lights, driving on the hard shoulder, buying alcohol on religious holidays, buying alcohol near educational institutions, paying bribes, accepting bribes, and the list goes on and on.

 

The point is: Whether something is illegal is of no consequence in Thailand - if the RTP isn't enforcing a law, you basically have permission to do it. The fact that you assumed that AirBNB was legal (due to the thousands of publicly available rentals in Thailand) proves the point nicely. 

airbnb is not illegal, short term lets are, airbnb does longer lets too but it is up to the user to set minimum days stay (and obviously abuse thai laws if they feel inclined)

 

anyways looks like all this is mute anyway the 'hotel' in question is still taking bookings so i assume they were doing nothing wrong 

 

carry on nothing to see here

 

 

 

[SABloke]

10 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

airbnb is not illegal, short term lets are, airbnb does longer lets too but it is up to the user to set minimum days stay (and obviously abuse thai laws if they feel inclined)

 

anyways looks like all this is mute anyway the 'hotel' in question is still taking bookings so i assume they were doing nothing wrong 

 

carry on nothing to see here

 

 

 

Well, technically you're right: Monthly rentals through the AirBNB portal are not illegal, and licensed hoteliers using the platform are fine for short terms ones, but considering the difficulty of obtaining a hotel licence, I suspect that very few (if any) of the thousands of AirBNB hosts would have them.

 

My response to Justin Case was going on the assumption that he was talking about the short term private rentals available through AirBNB. He could correct me, of course, but a hotelier would not be worried about AirBNB becoming illegal (without mentioning other platforms such as booking.com, trip.com etc. etc.)

[mikebell]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:10 AM, webfact said:

Complaints had been received by the hoteliers' association on the holiday island that the facility was unfairly impacting their members and the economy by not having a license and not paying the required amount of tax for a hotel. 

A house on my moobaan is operating a similar scheme; the owner has an agent; he lets the property for weekend parties.  The noise is disturbing for families with young children nearby.  Complaints to police/tessaban have produced nothing.

Where do we go from here?

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, mikebell said:

A house on my moobaan is operating a similar scheme; the owner has an agent; he lets the property for weekend parties.  The noise is disturbing for families with young children nearby.  Complaints to police/tessaban have produced nothing.

Where do we go from here?

Pay the police to investigate, the going rate is around 5,000. 

[LivinLOS]

On 6/15/2019 at 8:42 PM, happy chappie said:

I would of thought it can't be classed as an hotel as it has individually owned plots and villas with a rental manager.

now if it was fully owned by a company of owners then it could be classed as a resort.as it looks if one owner don't rent out and all the others do,does he receive any of the income/profit.

However then you come into the 'rental for a period of less than 30 days' clauses.. 

[mikebell]

21 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Pay the police to investigate, the going rate is around 5,000. 

'Complaints to police/tessaban have produced nothing.'

  They don't want to know/do anything about it.  Thai neighbours have called them to the scene numerous times in vain.  We, the Juristic Committee, would like to instruct a local lawyer to bring an end to the nuisance but can't find a definitive law to quote.

[Pilotman]

19 minutes ago, mikebell said:

'Complaints to police/tessaban have produced nothing.'

  They don't want to know/do anything about it.  Thai neighbours have called them to the scene numerous times in vain.  We, the Juristic Committee, would like to instruct a local lawyer to bring an end to the nuisance but can't find a definitive law to quote.

I say again, have you tried paying a 'administrative fee' to start an investigation?  Thais should know that it is a way to get an investigation going.